This gets frustrating.... I was reviewing a potential shop's description the other day and was appalled to see several grammar and usage errors throughout, even through the description was fairly short.

A couple of weeks ago I received feedback comments (from a different company), and the "editor's" comments, although just six lines, contained no fewer than five egregious grammar errors. I'm not talking about mistakes in obscure usage, but items that any high-school student should know! (Such as putting quotation marks inside periods at the end of sentences, which, unless you live in certain parts of the world, is wrong; using a plural form of a word instead of the possessive, etc.)

I realize that the main thrust of a report is the content, but when one applies to a MSC, they claim they want people who are good writers--that's why they ask for a writing sample. And I understand that editors sometimes come out of shopper ranks and aren't necessarily professional or trained copy editors. But I don't understand how a professional company, or one that wants to present itself as such, can allow this. Especially in verbiage that appears on its website, which can be read by thousands of people!

It doesn't give me confidence that my reports are being properly edited. Are editors changing correct usage to incorrect before they submit my reports to the client? Are they "marking me down" because they think their incorrect grammar is right and my correct grammar wrong?

I know when I shop ("real" shopping, not mystery shopping!) online, I usually won't shop with a company that doesn't hire professional writers or editors, or even a proofreader, to write and/or review its copy. I can usually spot such a company from "a mile away." To me, this says that the company doesn't value its customers/potential customers enough to pay some money out to be sure its copy is professionally done.

I'm seriously re-thinking this entire mystery-shopping thing.... Some of you may think my concerns are petty, but this is a really big issue for me. Do I want to slave over shops and reports for hours and hours, only to have my narratives "corrected" incorrectly or get a "low grade" because my editor doesn't know proper English usage, grammar, and spelling?

Or are my concerns unfounded, and do most editors leave grammar issues alone unless they're blatant? (But at this point I'm wondering how they know!)

Birdy, you won't be able to do this if you worry about someone else's grammar and usage. I'm afraid you'll have to let the offenders live or find some other line of work. As long as I can understand what they want, I say it's good enough. I don't care if they're ignorant of English 101 as long as they give clear instructions, communicate, and pay me.

MDavisnowell, thanks for your reply! I'm sure I fret about this more than most people, and more than I "should."

In the end, my main concern is that my work may be getting downgraded and/or edited incorrectly before being sent to the client. That does bother me, because, as a professional writer (I know there are others on this board, and I'd love their input as well), I want to do the job to the best of my ability.

It's not my problem if MSCs don't want to make sure that what goes on their websites or in their editorial comments is written correctly. But I don't understand why they apparently don't care about it! If I were a mystery-shopping company and submitting reports to clients, I'd want to make sure that what they see is right....

How can a company be taken seriously by the client if its site is sprinkled with mistakes on every page? I'd never hire such a company to mystery shop for me if I were a large corporation!

BTW, I don't mean to imply that my own writing is "perfect." But, because I'm a copywriter, I strive to be as accurate as possible and use proper English at all times....

I view it with mixed emotions. Yes, I want my work as close to perfect as possible. On the other hand, it's doubtful that I'll ever meet the end client face to face, so it doesn't bother me. The big thing is getting paid for the work, and knowing which battles are worth fighting.

I have to say that if a person's job is going to be to critique someone else's work and give them feedback, they should have a good command of the English language and how it should be written. Having said that, I don't mind being corrected even if it's wrong, what I do mind is when they ask me questions about things that were not in the guidelines or in the survey and then ding me for having to contact me.

pammie8223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> what I do mind is when they
> ask me questions about things that were not in the
> guidelines or in the survey and then ding me for
> having to contact me.

Yes, that would be far more vexing than being corrected by an editor who himself/herself isn't fluent in English composition! For sure....

BirdyC, did you notice the error in the second line of your original post? It jumped out at me when I first read it. None of us is as good as we think we are. Even the best writers and editors make mistakes. If we strive for perfection in this line of work, we'll spend way more time than the job requires or the pay demands.

Exactly. Birdy made a mistake and it didn't matter because the meaning was clear.

I'd like to believe the Editors know what the clients are looking for, and let's remember, the clients do not have a degree in
English, so having said that, right or wrong, we are at the mercy of the sometimes wrong Editor. My beef is when you have
put information in the report only to be asked again for the same information, then either a point or two or a dollar or two is taken for her having to ask. ...some companies require Server, Associate, Bartender to be capitalized, others say no, and want lower case. I don't care which is right, I try and follow the instructions. Knowing this business is repetitive and perfection not an option, I'm not saying your wrong, but your fighting a losing battle.

I alread SAID I know I'm not perfect! Nobody is. At least I've never meant anyone who is.

And, unlike when I post something to a forum such as this, I DO go back and proofread my reports and narratives before I submit them. Posting to a forum is a little different than submitting a report for pay. At least I think so.... That's not to say I've never made a mistake in grammar in a report. I'm sure I must have. But I'm not talking about the occasional "oopsie."

What I'm talking about are editors and people who write copy for websites who very clearly do not know proper English usage. It's one thing when you see an "oops" in copy (like the one I made this morning--because I don't have time to proofread everything word for word when I post to an online forum). It's another when you see repetitive errors, e.g., an editor who constantly misuses it's, its, they're, their, there, "members" plural instead of "members' or member's" possessive and vice versa, etc. Even worse, since editorial comments are not viewed publicly, are MSC websites, which are viewed by the "public," that are filled with mistakes that are clearly due to the writer not knowing proper English.

I simply can't understand why a company that's trying to impress people and garner new clients, as well as recruit good writers as shoppers, would allow this. I don't think it presents a professional image, and it makes me question the commitment to excellence that these companies claim to have. I feel as if a company whose site is not professionally written doesn't truly value its customers. It seems as if they think that "sloppy is OK" or, "just OK is good enough." Or that they think it's more important to keep a few extra dollars in their coffers rather than hire a pro to write copy for them.

I may be old fashioned, but to me, grammar, spelling, punctuation, and correct usage matter.

When I was a new shopper, I used to be bothered by the editors' comments. Nowadays, after many years, as long as I don't get lower than 9 or '5' so that I could qualify for many shops, I don't care. Yes, as someone up there said, I choose my
own battles. It's not worth the aggravation. There are bigger fish to fry.

One time, I challenged an editor and she pointed out my mistake by giving an example of 'my' report. Funny thing was her example was not even my work. When I pointed that to her, she kept quiet about the typo and suddenly attacked my scanning. I let it go. Can't win. Lately, I noticed a bit more respect. lol

Hang in there! My constant beef is what Irene said. I almost always get 9 or sometimes 8 because the editor did not take the time to read the report. But it's their ballpark. They control it. When frustration gets to me, I always have this in mind. "Don't ever challenge the judge in the courtroom or you'll be penalized for contempt."

Yeah, I guess I'll have to learn to let some things in this business just slide off me. But I don't mind being edited--as a writer I've been edited before, and I'm OK with it, as long as the editor's comments are fair and accurate. (And, when I edit other writers' work, which is something I did for more than 20 years, I make darn sure that I proofread my own comments before giving the work back to the writer!)

I've never argued with an editor about corrections, and I'm not about to start. But they lose credibility with me when their comments are laden with grammar mistakes.

But the larger issue still bothers me--and it's not just about MSC companies and their websites and/or editorial habits. It's the entire thing about companies who are out there online trying to sell their products or services and can't be bothered to present good, well-written copy to their target audiences!

Birdy -
I share your frustration with bad grammar and spelling out in the public realm.
In MS'ing I've resigned myself to the hazard of poor editing concerning my written reports. To me, it's a risk worth the pay.
I have also rationalized by considering that the editorial work for one company could primarily be ensuring complete shops with adherence to client-standards for evaluation, vs. for another company where the good report is one that paints a picture and enables the client-reader to vicariously experience the circumstances that the shopper encountered. The former requires an "editor" who can make sure all check boxes are ticked and all photos are present, not blurry, and not faked. The latter requires an excellent copy-editor.
You must do very well with the story-book narratives that a lot of high-end shops require.
You also could probably create a niche business by offering your copy-edit services to commercial websites. Count up the errors on their homepage, show them just a few examples of their errors and your corrections, and offer to fix the rest for $XX.

elcarev68 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Birdy -
> .... I have also rationalized by considering that the
> editorial work for one company could primarily be
> ensuring complete shops with adherence to
> client-standards for evaluation, vs. for another
> company where the good report is one that paints a
> picture and enables the client-reader to
> vicariously experience the circumstances that the
> shopper encountered. The former requires an
> "editor" who can make sure all check boxes are
> ticked and all photos are present, not blurry, and
> not faked. The latter requires an excellent
> copy-editor.

Very wise comments, there, and I totally see where you're coming from; thanks for a great tip on how to deal with this!

And, it's nice to see I'm not the only one who's bothered by this!

Although I'm "semi retired" from my copywriting/marketing-communications consulting business, I do occasionally try to pick up a job or two. I've actually tried what you suggest on one or two occasions. But, as tactfully and professionally as I approached it (and I really do know how to be tactful when dealing with clients), I found that the business owners (and you can generally be sure when you're viewing a small business's website that the owner wrote it or directed its writing by an in-house employee) always think they're right and you're wrong. I've been told that "You don't start a sentence with and...." Or that a blatant grammar error was "no big deal." And, many of the "people in charge" simply don't understand the difference between marketing copy and purely informational copy, and think that throwing jargon at the audience will impress them (rather than boring them to death). So, I'm not looking to pick up business that way--lol!

Thanks again for your sensible words!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2013 02:48AM by BirdyC.