Trust me, you don't even see the half of it. :/

Sybil,
Why on earth would I not work for MSCs that belong to the MSPA? If they want to join a trade organization, that's their business and none of mine.

Hey… so… what’s new, peeps…

I am sorry I have not been feeling well. I am the one who alerted Pam that the IMSC was being mentioned on the forum. However, given my high fever, I was in no position to reply anything even semi-coherent.

I feel a little better now. So here we go.

The IMSC does not believe in competition and even if we did, we by no means would consider the MSPA as competition. Our organization is driven by the shoppers and their needs. If there were no company present at our conferences, the education would still take place. There were more than 20 sessions during the Las Vegas conference included in the registration fee over a two-day period. The MSPA values the companies’ interests over the shoppers. We pride ourselves in bringing everyone together so we can stop this “us vs. them” mentality, so no one needs a membership to be recognized as a valued member of the mystery shopping industry.

Regarding certification: the IMSC does not have a Gold Certification as the title itself does not establish proof of shopper ability. While each shopper who attends an IMSC conference receives a certification number in our system if they attend 80% of the sessions, that is not our goal and we do not need to promote it. We recognize that people can only teach what they know, thus a variety of speakers and topics are required to help the shopper be their best. The goal is to connect shoppers with great companies who will actually follow through and offer you jobs because they know, without question that you have sat through 20 or more sessions and actually know how to perform the jobs and give their client the best work possible.

The number of companies present at a conference has no impact on the amount of money you will make each year if those companies do not remember you. The IMSC is not interested in having 50 company representatives at a conference who will forget you the moment the conference is over. Most of you already know that the majority of your work comes from a select group of companies that work well for you and the types of jobs you like to perform. The average shopper works for about 10 companies on a regular basis to bring in the majority of their income.

We pride ourselves on bringing in companies for shoppers to work for that chooses to value the shopper and not an organization. In fact, we had two company owners incognito during the recent Las Vegas conference, being non members of the IMSC or the MSPA, but great companies just the same. They came to see what the 166 shoppers in attendance were learning before becoming a part of the IMSC.

Walesmaven is a vocal supporter of the IMSC, but she is not on the IMSC payroll. Which brings me to the next topic: for-profit or not-for-profit? As Pam stated in her email to bgriffin (who could tell you the fourth sentence of said-email said, “You are of course welcome to share this email with whomever you see fit.”), “The IMSC decided in 2009 not to register as a non profit mostly due to tax restraints and was based solely on our tax consultant’s advice. While we would like to make a profit the truth is that has simply not happened. We would like to see everyone in our industry make a profit, working for free is never a good idea, wouldn’t you agree?”

Yes, we are a for profit organization (please excuse me while I chuckle a bit at that term!). That does not mean we pull in the type of salaries big non-profit CEOs pull. (Median salary = $100,000 - see [www.payscale.com]).

Oh no, it does not! HA!

I get paid throughout the year for work I have done at the IMSC and for being at the conferences. Let’s take this last one as an example. Las Vegas 2014. Beautiful venue, wonderful people, great attendees (a third of whom, just like bgriffin, did not pay their attendance fee but were rather invited at no cost), and excellent companies (all 9 of them). [Well, food and beverages (what we are obligated to spend at a hotel in order to have a conference there) was over $8,000. But that’s besides the point. You guys may not be interested in the nitty gritty details of conference planning and the thousands of dollars that must be spent. And yes, we tried having conferences at smaller, less glamorous venues, but we were then critiqued for not being on the Strip, or not being in a fancy hotel, or not being close enough to the airport, you name it, it’s been said! Anywho…]

So I got paid for organizing the conference, the hours spent on the website, the hours spent getting blog posts together, being on forums and responding to concerns, even on Saturdays when I’m sick in bed, calling speakers, calling potential sponsors, replying to 40 emails a day from shoppers asking about the conference or shopping in general. So I totaled my earnings for this year. A whooping $700. Ouch. Talk about under-minimum-wage type of wage! As for my time at the conference, for an entire week, due to speaking engagement, getting training videos in place, the actual conference, dealing with the hotel people, etc, from 6 AM to 11 PM every single day… I got $200. So sure, I made money. 200 whole buckaroos. Yep. Now, I am not complaining as I am very grateful to have made anything at all, and to have been given the opportunity to share with others and learn from them. But it has been a source of tension in my household for 5 years, as it has been for Pam and Amber. Trust me when I say this. We are NOT making nearly the same amount of money taking care of the IMSC than we are when mystery shopping.

So yes, when we say we do everything for the shoppers, we really do. Yes, we have memberships for sale, with added value for the members, and yes, we charge money to attend the conferences. Since people seem so fond of comparing the IMSC to the MSPA, I could go on and on about the differences between the two organizations/conferences (in all honesty, I had written a whole paragraph about it, talking about steak dinners and luxury hotels…). But what is the point? The MSPA is not and will never be a competitor to the IMSC. Why? Because we do NOT believe in competition. Never have, never will. I wish the MSPA all the success they deserve with their endeavors. Just as I hope the MSPA wishes the IMSC luck in our endeavors.

As for why Pam does not post here? The owner, Jacob, banned her years ago for backing up another forum. So there you have it. She can’t.

Time to go back to bed and take some Nyquil. Please excuse the feverish rant. Until the next time I alert Pam of the IMSC being mentioned on the forum. ;-)

Thanks for your post and I hope you feel better soon, Servanne. I am home sick with the fever, chills and hit by a Mack truck feeling all over my body. Otherwise I would not have the time to spend on the forum as I have today. I'd rather be outside enjoying the winter weather.

P.S. Why would some shoppers get free admission to a conference? I can understand a speaker not having to pay but a regular old shopper getting a free ride?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2014 12:50AM by Sybil2.

Hi Servanne. Thank you so much for your post, it was quite informative. As I stated in my reply to Pam, personally, I don't care if the IMSC owners are making 20x as much as shoppers as long as they are providing a valuable service, which I feel like they are. My beef has never been with the IMSC, but rather the incessant beating up of the MSPA by it's supporters on the forum. I was wondering if you might publicly address two questions for me though?

First, my initial email from Pam just said she was alerted of my post. The subsequent reply stated that she was alerted by a shopper on Facebook. Now you are stating that you were the one who alerted her. I was just curious as I fully believed from her reply that I had perhaps been mistaken that someone had gone crying to her that I was being mean. However, if the VP of the IMSC had been the one who alerted her, then why not just state that. It's not like there would have been some big to do if the VP had been the one, where as stating a shopper on Facebook alert her seems to act as if she was concealing the actual person. No need to do that if you were the one. Which honestly kind of makes me think I was right all along. So can I get a clarification?

Second, I was wondering if you could share your thoughts on the following quote, which was actually what started this seemingly IMSC vs MSPA discussion:

"Also, remember that many very fine MSCs are not MSPA members, and so you will never meet any of their staff at MSPA conferences. IMSC conferences are run by and for shoppers, and any MSC that is shopper-approved (i.e., not currently being reported by shoppers for non-payment) can participate."

Would you say that this statement appears to imply that there are many non-MSPA MSCs at the IMSC conference? And if so, would you say that it's an accurate statement?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2014 12:50AM by bgriffin.

bgriffin, you should not grill someone suffering from the flu. Believe me, it sux.

ctalbert Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have a question that maybe only schedulers can
> answer but wanted to ask anyway. I have been doing
> mystery shopping for six years and am silver
> certified. I do not mind taking the gold
> certification but the question is my age. I am 71
> years old and in excellent health but I am afraid
> my age will keep me from being selected for the
> higher end jobs. Does anyone know if my age will
> be a problem.


It will depend if the client has a requirement but I will tell you when I scheduled I had a 77 year old woman in NYC that I used exclusively...she was awesome! She was my go to person there!

Liz

Sybil2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bgriffin, you should not grill someone suffering
> from the flu. Believe me, it sux.


So sorry, I wasn't grilling, just asking for clarification. I can sometimes be direct, did not mean to come across as "grilling."

ctalbert Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have a question that maybe only schedulers can
> answer but wanted to ask anyway. I have been doing
> mystery shopping for six years and am silver
> certified. I do not mind taking the gold
> certification but the question is my age. I am 71
> years old and in excellent health but I am afraid
> my age will keep me from being selected for the
> higher end jobs. Does anyone know if my age will
> be a problem.

I do not think so. Your history of work, and maybe your lifestyle demographics, will be the determining factors. Age is a factor for alcohol and tobacco compliance shops, some retail and restaurant shops. There is a local restaurant chain here that offers lunch shops to the over 50 year olds, but not dinner shops. It's amusing to me that several times a year, the scheduler overrides the age requirement, and offers me a bonus to complete the dinner shops. I'm over 50.


To add my two cents to this thread, my opinion is that shoppers can do perfectly well without spending money to become MSPA certified. A brand new shopper can spend their money and become silver or gold certified - without completing a single shop, or just a dozen. If gold or silver certification for a shopper with no or little shopping experience entitles them to shops that a veteran shopper does not see, that's ludicrous. As such, it's not worthy of my respect, and certainly not my money.

The IMSC purports to be an organization by shoppers, for shoppers. I don't know if they have any chops to come to the defense or run interference, for a shopper up against the wall, with an issue with an MSC. With a couple of exceptions, the concensus is that spending money to go to their conference does not result in increased business to the shopper. There is expressed disappointment that expected networking was not realized as few MSCs attend the conference, and connections were not made. The fun factor of meeting other shoppers, and shared camaraderie, at their conference seems to be the draw.

I have met some fellow shoppers, and it's been fun. But, it sure didn't cost me hundreds of dollars. I have been in their neck of the woods, or they have been in mine. I also have a penpal relationship with many shoppers, no charge there.

This is what I know. No shopper has to pay one cent to MSPA or IMSC or whoever else is holding out their for-profit hand, to become successful. Not for certification, or to attend a conference, with hope of increased revenue. This forum is free. It's highly likely that posting problems or questions here, will yield answers and even resolution.

Sybil, we have had a No Shopper Left Behind program that allows shoppers to attend at no cost. The program is funded by donations and (you guessed it) profits from the IMSC conferences.

bgriffin, I alerted Pam via Facebook as we communicate through that medium a lot. I am assuming she did not feel important to say who alerted her, as long as you understood it was not Walesmaven. Also, she may not have wanted to put me in a bad situation, ie why would I alert her and not post myself (and that was of course because I am under the weather and not all that coherent).

As to your second question, I take that statement to mean they cannot sponsor a MSPA conference if they are not a MSPA member; however the companies in good standing with their shoppers whether members or not may sponsor an IMSC conference. This is just my thought as I did not write the original post.

And no worries, no harm done as there was no real grilling. :-)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2014 01:25AM by Servanne.

Traveliz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LisaSTL Wrote:
>
> I would say the Gold shops I offered as a
> scheduler were slightly higher than the average
> shop but nothing that would make you go "WOW." I
> would say the Gold shops I have done as a shopper
> have been average, WOW (seriously like two
> questions and paid in two days), and "that was a
> lot of money but that was a lot of work too."

I didn't notice much difference in the pay when I became Gold certified, but it did seem to me that schedulers were notifying me of jobs sooner which gives me a better shot at getting the jobs. Also, I have occasionally gotten emails about shops that are not listed on the job boards, and I don't think that happened before I got the Gold certification. I think some companies send out their emails to the Gold certified shoppers first. Then if they have jobs that are still unfilled, they send the emails to everyone else on their list.

Gladly...it was a very foggy morning. I was on my way to do a bank shop and I had crossed that bridge heading into town. I pulled over and found an area along the river where I could get a good shot. The river was mirror smooth. I know it looks like it's black & white, but there is some color along the right side.

I made $14 on the bank shop. So far, I've made over 10 times that on sales of that picture.


annelehman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear James Bond 007.5, Could you please explain
> the picture on your posts? Signed, Night Owl

I remembered something in the night that, if correct, could muddy the waters where the certification experiment is concerned. I could be wrong, but I seem to remember reading, or being told, that when a shopper is granted Gold Certification. MSPA notifies all member MSCs. This leads me to think that some of those might note the fact even if the shopper has not updated his/her profile to include the certification. If those MSCs began to offer more shops, the results of the experiment could be somewhat compromised (i.e., they, as members of the "presumed control group" would have been "contaminated" by the "treatment", e.g. knowledge that the shopper was Gold certified.)

I would add that, although I learned a ton of tricks of the trade at the Gold workshop, that is also where I met the head of video shopping for a major MSC. Within weeks hehad trained me and I was making more than half of my net fees from video within a month of training. Within a couple of month, video was producing 75-90% of my net from MS. So, in my case, the effects of certification were swamped by those from leaping into the video world. It is rare that I get an email offering priority to Gold shoppers that really tempts me, since I have also worked my way up in the hotel shopping world and do not do evening restaurant assignments. My other bread and butter routes, like post-security airport shops, are with MSCs that could care less about certification. For all of these reasons, I would never hold myself out as an example that could demonstrate the benefits, or lack thereof, of the certificate.

I don't understand the big deal of certified vs. non-certified. For those whining about spending the money, since it is a business expense, it is a write-off on your taxes. And if you ever get audited by the IRS, showing continuing education on your resume always helps. And it shows that you are serious about your business.

This has been a very interesting and informative thread.

walesmaven Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I remembered something in the night that, if
> correct, could muddy the waters where the
> certification experiment is concerned. I could be
> wrong, but I seem to remember reading, or being
> told, that when a shopper is granted Gold
> Certification. MSPA notifies all member MSCs.
> This leads me to think that some of those might
> note the fact even if the shopper has not updated
> his/her profile to include the certification. If
> those MSCs began to offer more shops, the results
> of the experiment could be somewhat compromised
> (i.e., they, as members of the "presumed control
> group" would have been "contaminated" by the
> "treatment", e.g. knowledge that the shopper was
> Gold certified.)

Thanks Wales. I purchased the CDs and figured I'd take the test early in the new year but wait until the 2nd Quarter to input my certification number with the MSC's. With your input, I'll wait on passing the test so as not to skew the results.

walesmaven Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is rare that I get an
> email offering priority to Gold shoppers that
> really tempts me, since I have also worked my way
> up in the hotel shopping world and do not do
> evening restaurant assignments. My other bread
> and butter routes, like post-security airport
> shops, are with MSCs that could care less about
> certification. For all of these reasons, I would
> never hold myself out as an example that could
> demonstrate the benefits, or lack thereof, of the
> certificate.

I also have a feeling that I won't be tempted by much with Gold Certification, but curiousity got the best of me.

As it turns out, I was just assigned one of the two high value shops I have been targeting. Turns out I was denied previously due to misunderstanding of Hawaiian geography and not due to my lack of experience with that company. So one of my tests is already null & void.

Here's my take on certification. Being a shopper for over two years I can honestly say (at least for me and my area) certification doesn't increase my chances for more or higher paying shops. There is always plenty of work. It is a numbers game too though. The more companies you're signed up with, the more emails you can delete each day. With that said I also have to say I am very seasoned. For young shoppers and/or shoppers just beginning certification is good for two reasons. First the education will help replace the lack of experience. Second, it helps get new shoppers prepared for the tests we have to take in the real world.

Before becoming a shopper I gained 30+ years of work experience in the Restaurant and Service Industries PLUS for many years I was in charge of "Internal Secret Shops."

So, we don't need certification to find work. If a beginner feels the certification can enhance his or her ability, go for it.

I do mystery shopping as a hobby. I do give the client my professional best. I am silver certified. I often see schedulers asking for silver or gold shoppers. I can only guess if the scheduler chose me because I am certified. Schedulers should choose me. If only they knew my background.

There are a lot of things I can do because I am retired. Sometimes I will take a shop for the nostalgia. Going back to the days I worked in neighborhoods that suburban shoppers should not attempt to shop. It is an adventure. Schedulers pay extra when suburban shoppers flake and I am available. Other shops I do because I like to "Play the role". I have worked and dined and been involved with relitives and associates. I know which silverware to use at formal affairs.

There are people who are "dreamers". They see themselves at a higher level. They set goals. They visit the vehicle dealerships and the high end malls and use mystery shopping to visit high end restaruants where they want to be someday. I was one of those "dreamers". I went to high end malls and car dealerships. I did that years ago because I wanted to experience touching and feeling the things I can now afford. Those experiences helped me get to where I am now.

When I go to a merchant the salesperson is on commision and he or she is evaluating me. The salespeople are counting my perceived money. They want to determine if I am worth their time or should they dump me they second they see a "qualified" shopper worthy of their time. Even though I am retired clients occasionally call me in to train their staff in customer service. I tell them to look past the preceived value. Give the customer service.

I may reward that salesperson with a sale because they gave service rather than try to count my money. Millionairs I know go shopping dressed down to see if they will be treated like a person. They did not start off wealthy, they earned the money they are worth. They and I are eager to help people live better. If it is not fun and mutually rewarding I ain't gonna do it!

Dave, I realize this isn't a match-the-shopper-with-a-shopper thread, however I encourage you to PM "Piled Hip Deep, PHD", since you sound a lot alike and may have a lot in common. He, too, is silver-certified.

Enjoy!

(heart)

Maybe it's more than just a lot in common?

That could be true, Lisa. I noticed some similar misspellings and sentence fragments.

hi dave the shopper, I hate doing car lots just for the reason you mention (plus the level of deception is greater) Then I talked to my sister about this whose hubby was a car salesman. When they get shopped and they pass, they get a bonus. My brother-in-law received 2 bonuses last year because he was shopped. The first one was $100 and the 2nd was $300. Now after hearing this I really hate doing them because I'm lucky if I get $ 30 for the shop.

I have no certification, and no idea how to become certified,
the question has come up lately.
any suggestions???

Markoze, thanks for the info on the bonuses that the sales staff can receive. That makes me feel better about taking up so much of their time. I wonder what type of commission they make on a sale and if the amount of time spent on a real sale for the money they make is comparable to the amount of time they spend with a shopper for the bonus they make. Did that make sense? I haven't had my coffee yet.

Lisa, I think that's what Still was getting at in her nibbling-around-the-edges sort of way.

The time for the bonus versus the time spent with us versus the time for a real sale cannot really compared. Only if we work on the assumption they will turn each and every prospect into a sale, and that sale was immediate with no follow up visits or calls, can we say our time cost them money. As someone who spent time in sales, no matter how good the training was it didn't compare to real life situations with actual customers.

I do cringe when hearing mystery shoppers regularly taking a couple of hours or more for car shops because they enjoy it or don't know how to cut and run. There is a real skill to presenting a scenario and taking the necessary steps to allow associates opportunities to ask for the sale while being mindful of their time. We aren't required to look at the same model in fifteen different colors or take the longest test drive offered for a reason.

I remember when I started shopping, my average car shop was running about 1.75-2 hours. I've learned how to get that time down and now I'm averaging an hour to 1.25 if there's a test drive and about 45 minutes without a test drive. When I'm planning a route, I still allow 1.5 hours if there's a test drive so that gives me needed contingency time.

stilllearning Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dave, I realize this isn't a
> match-the-shopper-with-a-shopper thread, however I
> encourage you to PM "Piled Hip Deep, PHD", since
> you sound a lot alike and may have a lot in
> common. He, too, is silver-certified.
>
> Enjoy!
>
> (heart)

I have a lot in common with Mert. (see his description below) except I am a little younger and my silver is about 8 years old. I do not care if my age is a problem. If a scheduler does not appreciate fine vintage wine let them eat grapes.

> I have been doing mystery shopping for six years and am silver
> certified. I do not mind taking the gold
> certification but the question is my age. I am 71
> years old and in excellent health but I am afraid
> my age will keep me from being selected for the
> higher end jobs. Does anyone know if my age will
> be a problem.

I am neither Mert or Piled Hip deep. I do not know Piled Hip Deep but he must be loaded or a great BS artist. I wish I were piled hip deep it is a great name and a nice position to be in. So descriptive of myself rich or full of it. (you figure it out).

There are a lot of old folks who just do mystery shopping only if it is fun. If it is not fun I am not going to do it. I never did anything unless it was fun. Unfortunately there are old shoppers who need to buy beans at the end of the month because they ran out of money. I leave the cheap shops for them.

I know a lot of late 60 early 70 people who have the same attitude. I could be mert's brother from another mother or a country cousin. When you are my age you lose track on purpose of course but people do not know if your loosing it or ... I forgot!
(I wish I had a smily face to give back to you!)

Thank you so much, Dave, for leaving the cheap shops for me so I can buy beans at the end of the month.

(heart)

Thanks for the explanation of Piled Hip Deep's name. I never knew it referred to being rich (or full of BS for that matter). Then again, I guess I never really paid any attention to it.