One location, 3 different MSCs, 3 different client and services. Anyone else pull this or better.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2015 04:47PM by ShoppingDad.

Were they three different clients?

Double dipping or in this case, triple dipping could be a slippery slope. In some instances, it may be okay. Always discuss the situation with your schedulers first. In many instances, it is not acceptable.

I was thinking like three locations in a mall from the post.

One location three different MSC, three differet clients.

Did you discuss it with all of your schedulers ahead of time?

Those can be a real Catch 22. Discussing them with other MSCs could be a violation of the ICA. It can be hard to tell just who the client might be and who might lay eyes on the report. Worst case is two are actually for the same client because one shop is with the current MSC while the second is a test shop with a new MSC. I know of people getting booted from both companies for that one. In the case of a convenient store chain in my area they get shopped/audited by one company, have their own chain shopped by another and will sometimes be shopped by vendors. My guess is the convenience store owner sees the results of both the audit by company A and the mystery shop they have contracted from company B. How they will react to technically paying for two shops and getting one is the issue.

There is absolutely no way I would discuss what work I'm doing for one company with another company. Not happening. Either it's one where I knew it would be ok or I wouldn't take the extra shops.

There are many times when it would be perfectly acceptable btw. One I did a convenience store shop for Pilot and another shop for the Cinnabon franchise inside. Wasn't a problem at all. And both were bonused quite well.

I have double-dipped also but I checked with both schedulers first. There are ways to elude what is happening without breaking ICAs. I don't discuss the names of the MSCs involved, I don't explain the guidelines or report and I don't mention payment. In fact, I have never been turned down for a double-dip but I did have to make two separate purchases at one location due to guideline requirements. Another time I was told to perform one shop, go to my car, wait a few minutes and then start the second shop.

When you make "special arrangements" like this, always get the communication in writing and save those emails.

i could see it being a problem if there were a $5 reimbursment for each shop...and you bought 1 $5 item and were reimbursed $15 between all the MSCs

@jmitw wrote:

i could see it being a problem if there were a $5 reimbursment for each shop...and you bought 1 $5 item and were reimbursed $15 between all the MSCs

The problem I see here is that they are all giving a $5 reimbursement. This screams that they are written by and going back to the same client. If the shop is for the same thing and has very similar requirements, then assume it could be the company testing a new MSC.

If the shop is at a warehouse club and one is for a cellular phone kiosk inside the store and and the second shop is a pharmacy product display assessment and the third is actually for the club membership desk and one wants a business card, the second wants a photo of the product display and a count of the product available, and the third wants a scan of the trial membership agreement. It would be pretty safe to assume that they are all unrelated enough to perform without moving the car between shops.

@Sybil2 wrote:

Did you discuss it with all of your schedulers ahead of time?

Of coourse not.

@jmitw wrote:

i could see it being a problem if there were a $5 reimbursment for each shop...and you bought 1 $5 item and were reimbursed $15 between all the MSCs

No purchase required.

I do shops that require a ferry to get to(50+ RT). Both msc's pay the full ferry
fee to get to their shop. I only take the ferry once. I've been doing it for over
5 years and will continue to do so.

@scanman1 wrote:

@jmitw wrote:

i could see it being a problem if there were a $5 reimbursment for each shop...and you bought 1 $5 item and were reimbursed $15 between all the MSCs

The problem I see here is that they are all giving a $5 reimbursement. This screams that they are written by and going back to the same client. If the shop is for the same thing and has very similar requirements, then assume it could be the company testing a new MSC.

If the shop is at a warehouse club and one is for a cellular phone kiosk inside the store and and the second shop is a pharmacy product display assessment and the third is actually for the club membership desk and one wants a business card, the second wants a photo of the product display and a count of the product available, and the third wants a scan of the trial membership agreement. It would be pretty safe to assume that they are all unrelated enough to perform without moving the car between shops.

I just gave that number as an example...not that it actually was a $5 reimbursement for each....it could be 1 reimburses $3, the next $5, the next $8....but if you only buy 1 $8 item..but submit to all 3 companies...you are being reimbursed $16 even though you only spent $8

@techman01 wrote:

I do shops that require a ferry to get to(50+ RT). Both msc's pay the full ferry
fee to get to their shop. I only take the ferry once. I've been doing it for over
5 years and will continue to do so.

so you are saying you bill 2 MSCs $50+ each.....even though you only have 1 $50+ fare? are the MSCs aware of this? I would be concerned I could be forced to pay back the extra money and criminally charged for fraud if I didn't have permission.

Why would that be fraud?

@jmitw wrote:

@techman01 wrote:

so you are saying you bill 2 MSCs $50+ each.....even though you only have 1 $50+ fare? are the MSCs aware of this? I would be concerned I could be forced to pay back the extra money and criminally charged for fraud if I didn't have permission.

If my neighbor calls the plumber to his house and the plumber charges 75 bucks just to show up. I then call the same plumber do you expect the plumber to waive his fee for me?

@holliscary wrote:

@jmitw wrote:

@techman01 wrote:

so you are saying you bill 2 MSCs $50+ each.....even though you only have 1 $50+ fare? are the MSCs aware of this? I would be concerned I could be forced to pay back the extra money and criminally charged for fraud if I didn't have permission.

If my neighbor calls the plumber to his house and the plumber charges 75 bucks just to show up. I then call the same plumber do you expect the plumber to waive his fee for me?

Speaking of plumbers...I called a plumber out, toilet was stopped up. He reached in (took 2 seconds) to pull out the deodorizer clip. He charged me $75 for 2 seconds of work

Moral of the story: Never put those deodorizer clips on your toilet seat, ever!

@holliscary wrote:

If my neighbor calls the plumber to his house and the plumber charges 75 bucks just to show up. I then call the same plumber do you expect the plumber to waive his fee for me?

No, your house is a different location than your neighbor's house. But if you paid $75.00 for the plumber to come out and diagnose the problem, I would expect him/her to apply that $75.00 charge if I hire him/her for the repair.

@Sybil2 wrote:

@holliscary wrote:

If my neighbor calls the plumber to his house and the plumber charges 75 bucks just to show up. I then call the same plumber do you expect the plumber to waive his fee for me?

No, your house is a different location than your neighbor's house. .

Of course.
Which is exactly why Techman shouldn't discount the fee for either MSC.

Oh ok. I thought you were agreeing with him. All the multiple quotes within a post sometimes gets confusing.

Techman is charging two different MSCs a ferry fee. Why should he tell either their shop is being combined with a shop from another MSC. What happens if one time he needs to go on two different days or one of the MSCs loses their client? Assuming the fee is being applied as a bonus, does that mean we are all obligated to return bonus money if we were able to pay less for our travel than originally anticipated? How about if we add assignments to the route, should we tell the first company we will take $20 less than negotiated because we found two $10 shops? While most of the time bonuses for travel expenses can cover my actual expenses, I've been on the road and due to weather or some other problem been forced to stay out an extra day. The MSCs don't take pity on me and jump to increase my bonus, it comes out of my profit.

a plumber is a completely unrelated issue..the showing up fee is not his travel reimbursment...that fee is for the actual service call
...

THIS ISSUE IS NOT ABOUT WAIVING A FEE for a shop itself...ITS ABOUT REIMBURSING EXPENSE.

if you pay $50 in travel costs..and 2 companies both pay you FOR THE FARE...they are paying you $100 for $50 costs..

if its a fee for a job that is different....of course if its the actual fee you are entitled to both....but if its actual cost reimbursement...that may be illegal.


say you have 2 health insurance companies...and some how neither knows about the other...say its traditional insurance where you go out of network and pay out of pocket for a $300 office visit.

you sumbit the claim to both companies...and each reimburses you....
for company A you get 80% reimbursement..so they pay you 260
for company b you get 90% reimbursment...so they pay you 290....

for a total of 550 reimburement when you only spent $300...that is fraud

reimbursement is for money spent to do the job...if you are being reimbursed for travel (tolls, ferry fare) the total reimbursment should match what you actual spent



or say you are a free lance accountant...and 2 major tax companies hire you to do per diem work....they both offer to remiburse you for a new laptop....you buy a $500 laptop....submit copies of the receipt to both companies....and they both reimburse you $500...for a total of $1000...when you only spent 500 on 1 laptop.....

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2015 09:33PM by jmitw.

The plumber analogy is much more appropriate than the health insurance. It may be deemed a service charge, in reality it is the fee they are charging to come to your home or business which qualifies as a travel charge because it is designed to cover their expenses for the time and vehicle costs.

NOTHING WAS SAID ABOUT THE REIMBURSMENT FOR THE FERRY FARE BEING A GENERAL BONUS...the indication was that the 2 MSCs directly reimbursed the transportation expense...

for example--Marketforce will pay parking and tolls...it is not a bonus...it is specific reimbursement for costs.

ABSOLTELY NOT--THE PLUMBER ANALOGY IS COMPARING 2 DIFFERENT THINGS......THE FACT IS THAT THE PLUMBER IS A SERVICE CHARGE...IT DOESN"T MATTER THAT YOU DOn"T THINK IT IS...you can call an apple an orange..but that doesn't make it true..they do not have a specific cost they are covering...unlike a ferry fee which is a specific cost....and it certainly doesn't cost my plumber $75 to travel around the corner...i certainly am not reimbursing him for his travel...sure it defrays the plumbers cost to come out to a job..especially if its a low cost job..but it is still NOT considered an expense reimbursement....

SURE IF YOU GO ON 2 DIFFERENT DAYS YOU SUMBIT REIMBURSEMENT TWICE....BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT HE SAID.


THE WAY THE ORIGINAL STATEMENT WAS MADE WAS THAT THE FERRY FEE ITSELF WAS REIMBURSED AS A COST...it was not called a bonus..

jmitw your comments make no sense. Countless companies charge a trip charge
based on them traveling from their office. Do you think these companies actually
drive back to their office then on to the next client before going? Roadside assistance
is a classic example. Most companies after a certain distance charge per a mile. If they
helped a guy 5 miles from you they are not charging you based on where they were
last located.

Regardless of the item, laptop, airline, hotel or dollar menu at mcdonalds if more then
one company wants to pay for it as long as you record it properly as expenses vs income
for the additional it does not matter.

The plumber analogy does not involve anything illegal; the insurance example could be insurance fraud or whatever term they deem appropriate. This whole thread seems like a very gray area and I doubt we will come to any conclusion unless we get some professional or legal people to read this thread.

@jmitw wrote:

THIS ISSUE IS NOT ABOUT WAIVING A FEE for a shop itself...ITS ABOUT REIMBURSING EXPENSE.

.....

No it isn't. It's about a negotiated cost of doing business between a company and an independent contractor and they're agreed upon price.

MSC: Please do our shop..it pays $25 bucks
ME; It costs me 50 to take a ferry to get there
MSC: Ok, we'll add 50 bucks
Me: Deal


MSC (: Please do our shop... it pays 12 bucks
Me: It costs me 50 bucks to get a ferry to get there
MSC(: We can add 50 bucks to the fee. Could you do it then?
Me: Sure

What's the problem?