From Deadspin.
A lot of people will want to watch Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao box each other this Saturday, but not a lot of people will want to plunk down a record-setting chunk of pay-per-view money to do so. These people will probably go to a local sports bar to watch the fight, and if they are good bar patrons, they will buy more than a few drinks, because showing a fight like this doesn’t come cheap for bar owners.

A sports bar can’t just pay the $89.95 pay-per-view fee, open the doors to a few hundred eager boxing fans, and then reap profits. That’s because bars have to purchase a special license from a company called J&J Productions, which handles selling the rights to the fight to commercial venues. And what do those licenses run? We put in a call to J&J and pretended to be a bar owner looking to buy the fight, and this is the quote we got:

“Prices are determined according to the fire code’s limit for the business. if it holds 200 people, this event will be $6,500. for 500 people it will be $15,500. We have a program that gives us a price when we put the fire code limit into it.”
That’s a lot of money, man. If a 200-capacity bar buys this fight, it would need to pack the house and then have each patron spend at least $32 in order to break even (and that’s setting aside the bar’s usual expenses).

Of course, bars could try to get around this and just pay the standard pay-per-view price, but J&J Productions takes this @#$%& very seriously, and will sue the crap out of anyone who tries to pull a fast one on them. They even hire armies of undercover spies to try and bust bars that don’t pay the fee (via The Guardian):

People contracted by Audit Masters get a list of bars legally showing a PPV. During the four-hour telecast, PPV cops travel around to locations that are showing the fight but not on their list.

“We do not tell you where to go,” Audit Masters says on its website. “That is up to you, we leave that up to your local expertise as to where you feel the most productive areas for piracy would be. We do ask that you average at least five stops per hour during the hours of the telecast.”

[...]

PPV cops are paid by the number of illegal locations they are able to find. The ad posted by Edlund offers $250 per location found.

Good luck doing any of those. I suspect the line is out the door on every single one.

And wouldn't you have to pay the cover to get in?

You would have to pay the cover. But if you never got in.... overfilled..... no pay at all.
I hear that many of those venues were shut at capacity. I know one that was filled three hours before the event and that was standing room only.
Those folks who did get in were there well in advance of 8 hours! So if you were doing it just for this..... pay was pennies!

@Chix wrote:

And wouldn't you have to pay the cover to get in?

I was informed by the MSC that if the location was at capacity, I should try to get as much information as I could from outside, including pictures and potentially video. They said they would try to use the information if at all possible. The location I audited was not sold out, luckily!

I will say it was one of the most nerve-wracking 'shops' I've ever performed. On a typical restaurant shop, if the server catches on that you're a mystery shopper, they'll probably just provide over-the-top service. On these PPV audits, you're likely to get kicked out at the least...there's definitely a potential for violence from the owners/managers.

I don't know how obvious it actually was (I was as discreet as possible), but I felt like everyone could tell that I was recording my video, and that I was typing up notes. You have to get quite a few details about the location, much more than a typical restaurant/retail evaluation, so I just had a memo open with all of the bullet points I needed to get. I typed a paragraph or two for each bullet point, and got out of there. Leaving the location was fairly awkward, as well...you just paid $20 to get in the door, and you're going to leave before the main event even starts? Super obvious! Luckily these don't require repeat visits, because I'm sure by the time I left the owners had ID'd me!

They probably did not ID you but you have to realize you can never go in that place again. If they knew you were getting video, depending on the establishment you either would not have been allowed to leave safely or at best you would have been harassed. So they probably did not know you then, but I guarantee they will find out who you are when they get sued. So yeah. Can't go back ever for any reason.

Didnt that edlund scheduler claim last week that they would never
schedule for a company that makes you find your own places?

The Edlund scheduler said that they would NOT make anyone find there own place. There was a poster who said that they were contacted by someone else who required that they find their own place. While connected by the nature of the shop, no one has said (as far as I can remember) that Edlund made them find their own place.

I found two locations that had not shown up for any previous fights. Unfortunately for me, they both ended up paying to show the fight.

The risk of being discovered taping the fight is the main reason I prefer using my PV500. I also use my digital voice recorder to dictate notes to myself and the license plate numbers as I leave.

I had one shop for Taylor in 2013 that was about two hours from home. I picked up a dinner shop near there, so I timed my traveling to pass by the location at sunset. I parked about a block away, used a long telephoto lens to get shots of the bar and the satellite antenna, then went to the dinner shop. I took my time there, arrived back at the bar about 20 minutes before the PPV started. I actually caught the FBI warning on the video. I stayed through the first round of the first fight, then drove partway home and spent the night in a hotel. That was the only time I was nervous on one of these shops as I was followed out of the bar and down the road for about 10 miles.

Hey all! Just to clarify, we do not MAKE you find your own place. Now if you happen to FIND a place we didn't have, we pay you a referral fee.

As much as we tried to send no one to a "bad" location, there were a few on Saturday that ended up not showing the fight. JRE said they would cover your expenses in full. Not sure what TA will do at this point.

As for safety, these jobs aren't for everyone. Anyone who called/texted on Saturday that they felt awkward, out of place, unsafe, etc., was told to leave the location. If they were able to get some information, they will be paid $150 instead of $250. Same if they were turned away at the door because of capacity issues.

One shopper saw the fights being played from the sidewalk and took video through the windows. Another had a conversation with security telling her the fight was playing but they were at capacity. Another felt out of place in a bar where the predominant demographics were not hers, so she ended up doing all observations from her parked car across the street, since she could see the TV screens from there.

All these are examples that actually happened this weekend, and all of these shoppers will be paid a minimum of $150.

(Edited for spelling)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2015 06:01PM by EDS - Edlund Data Services.

@CANADAMOMMY wrote:

You would have to pay the cover. But if you never got in.... overfilled..... no pay at all.
I hear that many of those venues were shut at capacity. I know one that was filled three hours before the event and that was standing room only.
Those folks who did get in were there well in advance of 8 hours! So if you were doing it just for this..... pay was pennies!

@Chix wrote:

And wouldn't you have to pay the cover to get in?

I made a grand doing these this Saturday.

@bgriffin wrote:

They probably did not ID you but you have to realize you can never go in that place again. If they knew you were getting video, depending on the establishment you either would not have been allowed to leave safely or at best you would have been harassed. So they probably did not know you then, but I guarantee they will find out who you are when they get sued. So yeah. Can't go back ever for any reason.

You are making statements that have no bearing on the truth. There is a very minimal chance they will ever find out who a shopper is when they are sued. It's not like they are handed the affidavits and they say hey, go look these over. They go and say we have XX number of affidavits and videos that show you were stealing our event, and they go to settle. I myself have done over 100 of these and unless they go to court, my name will never be given. Ive never gone to court, and I have referred over 40 friends and shoppers to do these and none of them have had to go to court either.

You're identify is guaranteed safe unless they go to court, then you would have your identity known. Not unless that occurs.

Please dont' scare people with things you have limited knowledge about.

A. No one can guarantee your ID is safe.
B. I never said that your ID would be compromised. I said you can never go in there again.

You're telling me that you would go do a PPV audit in a bar that was 95% regulars where you were completely opposite of the demographics of the bar and then feel safe walking in for a beer a week after they got contacted for stealing the signal? That is in the top 10 of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

I was the only, or one of single digit white people in every single place i went last night in chicago. I have gone into MC clubs, I have gone into places where I am probably the only white person in blocks. I get along with everyone and i'm comfortable everywhere. Ive been in places where there were 300+ people who were not my demographic at all. Im jsut there to see the fight man. Go in, get a drink, talk to whoever's next to you. Get what I need and get the hell out of there. I am NOT your typical person though and I would never expect anyone else to do what I do.

As far as A, don't demur and give some argument about no one can guarantee anything. The realistic chance your id will be compromised because you filled out an affidavit is effectively <1% and any suggestions otherwise are dishonest.


B. I would agree with that statement. I pay cash and I never return to where I bust after a month later.

Why would you ask me this? I never told anyone they should go back to a place they busted. THAT suggestion is the top dumbest thing Ive ever heard. Who would do that?

Seriously though, where did you even get that idea?

@jrossetti wrote:

Why would you ask me this? I never told anyone they should go back to a place they busted. THAT suggestion is the top dumbest thing Ive ever heard. Who would do that?

Uh. I made the comment that the shopper can never return to that venue again and you said I was scaring people for no reason and that I should shut up. Which means you think it's ok to return to the venue again. I fail to see why you can't understand simple logic and instead tell me my question is dumb. that is EXACTLY what you are saying in that post.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2015 03:26AM by bgriffin.

@bgriffin wrote:

@jrossetti wrote:

Why would you ask me this? I never told anyone they should go back to a place they busted. THAT suggestion is the top dumbest thing Ive ever heard. Who would do that?

Uh. I made the comment that the shopper can never return to that venue again and you said I was scaring people for no reason and that I should shut up. Which means you think it's ok to return to the venue again. I fail to see why you can't understand simple logic and instead tell me my question is dumb. that is EXACTLY what you are saying in that post.

I told you to quit scaring people because you implied that your identity is given to the bar in question and is known when they get sued, and that is not true.

I did not imply that in the least bit. I implied that once they were sued they would figure out who you were. You obviously believe the same thing or you wouldn't suggest that going back would be stupid.

I have spent a lot of my working life in places where I was the only woman, or the only white person or the only Anglo, and somethimes have been all 3 at once. As a shopper, I make a lot of bonuses because I know where in my metro area I will be safe, and the few places where I won't. Other shoppers appear to think that the list of places where they will not be safe here is a heck of a lot longer than it really is! Hence, they leave shops on the board that they could easily and safely perform if they had bothered to educate themselves about the places they live. Yes, there are a few places where I will not go; my Mama drowned all her dumb kids!

walesmaven, I would agree with you. I do those PPV audits myself. As a white, obese, middle-aged woman with a foreign accent, I have been into boxing clubs at 10 PM on a Saturday where I was the only person in my demographics. It's all about the attitude, IMO. I walk in with the idea that I belong there. I may provoke thoughts of "who is she" for a minute, but I have never been asked out loud who I was. By the time they really wondered who in the world I was, I was gone.

With that said, I also know my metro neighborhoods. There are very few places I would not go to. We have to have faith in the human race once in a while. Not everybody is a violent criminal who will beat you up, even in so-called "bad neighborhoods". Just because they are doing something illegal (not paying the PPV fight fee) does not mean they are willing to harm anyone.

Maybe my naivete will be my demise... but it is tons better than constantly being scared by fellow men and women.

@bgriffin wrote:

I did not imply that in the least bit. I implied that once they were sued they would figure out who you were. You obviously believe the same thing or you wouldn't suggest that going back would be stupid.

You seem to enjoy arguing. Right here is EXACTLY word for word what you said. How do you type those words and then say that's not what you meant? Don't try and behind semantics. You made guarantees about jobs you do not schedule and about a process you quite simply do not even understand. This means you shouldn't be talking about those aspects of the job because you are simply unqualified and giving out bad information.

"but I guarantee they will find out who you are when they get sued. "

You LITERALLY GUARANTEED that anyone who does these jobs will have their identity known, BY the bar owners, when they get sued. In the English language and grammar, that is literally what your words meant. Don't you DARE suggest that isn't what you said. It's right effing there for everyone to read.

How do you type that and then a few posts later say that's not what you said? You're literally telling people that their identity WILL be known, and it won't. They might remember some white guy came in that night but that's not my identity. That's "hey, maybe it was that white guy who was here FIVE MONTHS AGO).


You lied, or at best, mislead people, and are somehow surprised someone called you out on your bs? ?If you're going to affect someone elses business, expect them to put you straight when you are being out of line and you and rob~ were both out of line. Him with talking about the policy of editing affidavits and you with your guarantees about peoples identities being known to the business owners when they are sued. Statements like that affect peoples businesses. Although I am a firm believer in having an open and honest forum, you both were happy to to be open, but neither of you seemed to be too concerned about being honest.

Don't take this the wrong way, but your post history here shows you having lots of arguments and a lot of complaints. When shoppers have that kind of attitude, after a few weeks one tends to think its the shopper and less the evil MSP's that you are complaining about.

We get it, this job isn't your cup of tea. So don't do them. Talk about legitimate pros and cons about the jobs all you want and all day long, but expect to get a pretty rapid and detailed response once you start talking bout things that you are not qualified or even in the know to talk about that are not true or are misleading.



TLDR version: Don't come on here talking about other peoples businesses and misleading shoppers because of your personal hangups. Tell true stories, actual concerns, and be honest about the risk involved to people because THAT is what this forum is about.

I have two VERY simple questions that even you can answer:

Do you recommend that when someone does a PPV audit they return to the location at later time as a consumer or do you recommend that they do not return to the location?

If you do not recommend they return to the location, why no?

When you admit that you did in fact mislead shoppers with how you spoke I'll be happy to address any specific questions. Otherwise I will assume you are again trying to get into another argument, as your post history shows, and not waste my time. I asked you questions in my thread and you';re declining to respond to them. Sorry, I don't play ball that way. You want me to answer your questions, then reply to mine as well. Discussion is a two way street.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2015 02:40PM by jrossetti.

Also known as you know I'm right and you want out of the argument.

Face it. You misunderstood what I was saying in that post and flew off the handle. You misunderstood what James Bond said in another post and flew off the handle. You misunderstood my question about how you make money searching and answered it as if it were a totally different question.

There's a common thread here.

I saw no questions in your post that were actual questions. Things like "how can you say this?" That's not a real question. Ask me a real question and I'll be glad to answer it.

Also, honestly, I skimmed quite a bit of it because it was all rhetoric which bores me.

@bgriffin wrote:

Also known as you know I'm right and you want out of the argument.

Face it. You misunderstood what I was saying in that post and flew off the handle. You misunderstood what James Bond said in another post and flew off the handle. You misunderstood my question about how you make money searching and answered it as if it were a totally different question.

There's a common thread here.

I just got done telling you that I am more than happy to address everything you said. So you're simply wrong in suggesting that I want out of anything. I'm offering to explain and respond to you as long as you show me the same courtesy. If you can't do that, then why should I spend time humoring you?

I am pleased to see that you are admitting you are simply arguing though. I was sincerely hoping you were just trying to have an honest discussion with people. The common thread here, is that you argue with everyone. Have you looked through your post history?

Again, I will be happy to address 100% of your questions with you simply admitting that you mislead shoppers in this thread. There is no misunderstanding. Your verbatim told people in this very thread that their

"IDENTITY WILL BE KNOWN WHEN THEY ARE SUED" There is no misunderstanding that. You literally used those exact words. There is no point of view, there is no two ways that can be read. Those are the words that you typed out and posted in a public forum to other people about jobs that you do not schedule. Its inappropriate and out of line.


When you asked how to make money with leads, that's not misunderstanding, that's you not knowing how to type a question properly. Your wording literally means "how do you find leads" not "how do you get paid by finding leads" which is what you meant to say.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2015 02:51PM by jrossetti.

No, you did not say you would be more than happy to address everything I said. You said you would be more than happy to address everything I said after I say that I'm wrong. Those are not at all the same thing.

I did not mislead shoppers. If I was misleading shoppers then you would agree that it's no big deal to go back into venues after you bust them in a PPV audit. It's very simple logic. If you don't think they'll figure out who you are then it should be no big deal to go back. If you think there's a good chance they'll figure it out then you shouldn't go back. My point was that they'll very likely figure it out and that you should never go back to those type of places.

Perhaps I argue with everyone, perhaps your common thread is not understanding things and flying off the handle at people.

Yes, I did say that, and I agree with it. There may be a small amount who won't figure it out, especially where a shopper fits the demographics of the venue, but generally speaking it seems that these are done by people who do not fit the demographic of the venue and I think 99 times out of a 100 they will know who the shopper is.

Also, yes, it IS misunderstanding. My exact quote was "Please tell me how to make money searching for leads."
There is a phrase in there "how to make money" right after "tell me" and "searching for leads." I am asking you how to make money not how to search for leads. If I wanted to know how to search for leads I would have asked how to search for leads. Although truthfully I should have asked how do you make money searching for leads, because I have no desire to search for them or to interact with you on a project.

Other than getting to be mad at a face instead of a name, what does the venue owner have to gain by identifying the shopper?

That said, the locations I picked up were all over an hour away from where I live...even if they were to ID me, it's not like they're going to run into me at the grocery store or something.

Unless it's just a total criminal running the place nothing as they probably would not get your name and address. Would you feel safe returning to the place though?

@baconbits wrote:

Other than getting to be mad at a face instead of a name, what does the venue owner have to gain by identifying the shopper?

That said, the locations I picked up were all over an hour away from where I live...even if they were to ID me, it's not like they're going to run into me at the grocery store or something.

When people stop and think rationally, they get ideas such as what you just said and it's spot on.

You pay cash, you can park your car at a nearby business or just get dropped off if you're worried about your license plate.

The clients also do nothing with these illegal companies for months. I know for a fact as of last year it was at least a 3-5 month or higher window from event to when the client went after them. You really think the bouncer who checked your ID at the door months later is going to remember your name? Not that anyone holds video records for months, but say they kept videos from inside. Now they have a fuzzy video of a person from months ago who paid cash.

These doomsdayers are killing me man. Lol.

@bgriffin wrote:

Unless it's just a total criminal running the place nothing as they probably would not get your name and address. Would you feel safe returning to the place though?

Of course not...just like I wouldn't feel comfortable running into someone that got fired from an alcohol compliance audit, or any other mystery shop. I wouldn't have agreed to audit any business that I frequented, and I accept that I won't be returning to that place. I'm not broken up about it or anything.