Has anyone else triggered a "hot alert" for hazmat questions on a regular USPS shop? I assume this shop will automatically be flagged for scrutiny but would love to hear others experience. I just wish it was one of my simpler USPS shops. Amazingly the hazmat was one of the easier "no" questions to answer.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2015 08:38AM by wwin.

I have to do one of those tomorrow. From what I see they are supposed to refuse to let you mail it.

I got half way to a hot alert on a recent regular box shop, because the clerk marked No to the questions, instead of having me do it on the device.

I believe it takes both marking No and not asking the questions to trigger this alert, and it doesn't matter what kind of shop you're doing. Maybe she did that because it was only going to Zone 2, but it was not standard, in any case.

That's interesting, you're right (that was what happened at my shop as well). I just checked again on another survey I have and it doesn't seem to trigger it (in fact even if you select NO for both questions it doesn't trigger it). I could have sworn the hot alert triggered button was selected. I wish I made a copy of the report. I usually keep one but forgot last night.

This wasn't a hazmat shop it was a regular box shop that the hazmat part wasn't done correctly by the clerk.

@Cettie wrote:

I have to do one of those tomorrow. From what I see they are supposed to refuse to let you mail it.

ok

Do you mean has a package been accepted when it should not have been?

@Orrymain wrote:

Do you mean has a package been accepted when it should not have been?

No, I was referring to doing a normal package shop where the clerk should ask the hazmat questions and you answer "no" then click on the no button on the screen during the shop. When doing my report (the clerk bypassed the computer screen part so I did not select " no"on it)I could have sworn the Hot Alert button self-selected and I was wondering if anyone had experience with a Hot Alerts. It seems I probably was mistaken when I thought the Hot Alert became selected on my report but it's still interesting to see what happens if it does.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2015 05:51AM by wwin.

The Survey (report) has been modified so that if the clerk accepts ANY PACKAGE from any of the four scenarios it automatically triggers a "HOT ALERT". The CDU doesn't come into play. With the emphasis on current events it seems the intelligent thing to do.

I just did one of the scenario shops for post office yesterday. Nothing triggered except when I said laptop battery the clerk pulled out a rubber stamp and imprinted the word "perishable" all over the box several times.

@Cettie wrote:

I just did one of the scenario shops for post office yesterday. Nothing triggered except when I said laptop battery the clerk pulled out a rubber stamp and imprinted the word "perishable" all over the box several times.

hmmmm....i think a battery that would be :"perishable" might be hard to digest. 3 of my 4 today were accepted and all triggered a "HOT ALERT".

I did the battery one today and I was annoyed. I clearly stated I had a lithium battery from a computer in the box per the instructions. The employee then asked if the battery was in the computer or in the original packaging. There was nothing about this in the instructions. I took a shot and said it was just the battery with no packaging. That got the ship rejected for Priority. IF I had said it was in the packaging it could have been shipped. The lack of detailed instructions in these shops has bothered me. I also had a problem with the cupcakes in dry ice. It turns out a certain amount of dry ice is OK according to the employee. You need to know how many ounces of dry ice is in the package. I wish they gave more detail in the shop instructions to avoid these pitfalls that may penalize an employee.

Perhaps there IS an alert generated to the Post Office that we're not aware of.

@wwin wrote:

I was wondering if anyone had experience with a Hot Alerts. It seems I probably was mistaken when I thought the Hot Alert became selected on my report but it's still interesting to see what happens if it does.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2015 02:43AM by KathyG.

@KathyG wrote:

Perhaps there IS an alert generated to the Post Office that we're not aware of.

@wwin wrote:

I was wondering if anyone had experience with a Hot Alerts. It seems I probably was mistaken when I thought the Hot Alert became selected on my report but it's still interesting to see what happens if it does.

yep, i do...'hot alerts" are ONLY triggered when your package/box is accepted. all 4 scenarios are restricted/banned items & not allowed air transportation (priority, etc) & a "YES" answer to the "WAS YOUR PACKAGE ACCEPTED (or something similar) WILL trigger a "HOT ALERT"

So far: "Cupcake" scenario - package refused by clerk (would have been willing to accept it by ground; I refused as required)
"Laptop battery" scenario - package accepted for Priority Mail by the clerk
"Perfume" scenario - package refused by the clerk
Another "laptop battery" and another "perfume" already scheduled for this week.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2015 01:48PM by myst4au.

Cupcake package accepted shipped ground
Laptop battery 1 shipped ground, 1 refused
Perfume accepted shipped ground

@medowynd wrote:

Cupcake package accepted shipped ground
Laptop battery 1 shipped ground, 1 refused
Perfume accepted shipped ground

Oh, oh...you didn't follow the instructions/guidelines. The post offices WILL SHIP all of the items contained in the 4 scenarios but that is not the purpose of the project. If they refuse to ship the items via air (priority mail) then you are tasked with refusing to ship the items and then purchase 4 stamps as proof of visit. I'm afraid your report will not be accepted, you will not be paid for the shop and you will not be reimbursed for your shipping expenses. If you are scheduled for any additional hazmat shops I suggest you fully understand the requirements.

I'm doing a few of these today. For the cupcake one, did you get asked how much dry ice was in the package? When you are rejected, what are you purchasing to get a receipt? It says you can buy a 4 pack of stamps, a greeting card, mailer, ect. but it doesn't say how much they reimburse for this purchase.

@nimbusrogue wrote:

I'm doing a few of these today. For the cupcake one, did you get asked how much dry ice was in the package? When you are rejected, what are you purchasing to get a receipt? It says you can buy a 4 pack of stamps, a greeting card, mailer, ect. but it doesn't say how much they reimburse for this purchase.

i tell them "about 1/2 lb" so the box doesn't go over the weight restriction (2 lbs ) & the USPS doesn't have "4 packs" of stamps so buy 4 @ .49 = $1.96 & get a receipt as pov & you will be reimbursed.

Whatever the weight doesn't matter because it should not be accepted with any dry ice

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2015 08:21PM by parkcitybrian.

Thank you. I didn't think there were 4 packs of stamps. I will play it safe and buy 4 stamps since it doesn't specify a reimbursement amount for this pov. I'm guessing a book of 20 for $9.80 would be pushing it even though it's within the amount reimbursed for shipping.

@nimbusrogue wrote:

Thank you. I didn't think there were 4 packs of stamps. I will play it safe and buy 4 stamps since it doesn't specify a reimbursement amount for this pov. I'm guessing a book of 20 for $9.80 would be pushing it even though it's within the amount reimbursed for shipping.

The guidelines clearly state 4 stamps anything more you won't be reimbursed

So I just did the cupcake scenario and it was accepted to go Priority 2 day and not ground. Apparently under 5lbs of dry ice is ok by air.

@nimbusrogue wrote:

So I just did the cupcake scenario and it was accepted to go Priority 2 day and not ground. Apparently under 5lbs of dry ice is ok by air.

nope...per USPS regulations all dry ice (regardless of the weight) must be in a "vented" box to allow built-up gasses to escape. Your survey (report) will trigger a "hot alert" as the clerk should not have accepted it but it isn't up to you to question the clerk about it as long as you answered the hazmat question honestly with a "yes" or told him "yes" if asked.

I told him I had the cupcakes in dry ice when he asked the hazmat question but he had me select no on the cpu. He asked me if it was under 5lbs and I told him it was about half a pound since my package was just over a pound and a half in total weight.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2015 09:56PM by nimbusrogue.

@nimbusrogue wrote:

I told him I had the cupcakes in dry ice when he asked the hazmat question but he had me select no on the cpu. He asked me if it was under 5lbs and I told him it was about half a pound since my package was just over a pound and a half in total weight.

hmmm...your package had item(s) that should have been answered "yes" = fragile and perishable which are 2 of the items on the hazmat question. That question should have been answered with a "yes".

@parkcitybrian wrote:

@nimbusrogue wrote:

I'm doing a few of these today. For the cupcake one, did you get asked how much dry ice was in the package? When you are rejected, what are you purchasing to get a receipt? It says you can buy a 4 pack of stamps, a greeting card, mailer, ect. but it doesn't say how much they reimburse for this purchase.

i tell them "about 1/2 lb" so the box doesn't go over the weight restriction (2 lbs ) & the USPS doesn't have "4 packs" of stamps so buy 4 @ .49 = $1.96 & get a receipt as pov & you will be reimbursed.

Whatever the weight doesn't matter because it should not be accepted with any dry ice

The USPS employee told me some dry ice was OK but he needed to know how much was in it by weight. When I said I did not know, he refused to send it Priority.

@parkcitybrian wrote:

@nimbusrogue wrote:

Thank you. I didn't think there were 4 packs of stamps. I will play it safe and buy 4 stamps since it doesn't specify a reimbursement amount for this pov. I'm guessing a book of 20 for $9.80 would be pushing it even though it's within the amount reimbursed for shipping.

The guidelines clearly state 4 stamps anything more you won't be reimbursed

I was going to try to look closely at the instructions again. I got the impression they do not reimburse for the four stamps. It didn't matter to me since I needed to buy stamps anyway but it would be nice if they paid for them.

The instructions say to buy 4 stamps. I asked the scheduler, and they will reimburse for 4 stamps. The other items got added later (gift cards, etc.) and I don't know if they will reimburse for those. They will reimburse for 4 stamps.

I selected no because that's what the clerk told me to do after I told him about the dry ice. I think the dry ice scenario needs to be written more clearly. The clerk asked me the hazmat question, I replied that I had dry ice, he asked if it was less then 5lbs (which it obviously was since the weight of my box was between 1-2lbs), I told him I thought it was about half a pound, then the clerk brought up the cpu selection for me and told me to push no. I had no issues with the Purfume or Mom scenario, those played out just fine but this one needs some tweaking in the instructions I think.

There is a "less than 5 pounds" requirement, but that is not the only requirement. Even more critical is that the "container" holding the dry ice be vented so that the release of gaseous carbon dioxide does not cause an violent rupture of the sealed container. This is a real concern. A mole of carbon dioxide weighs 44 grams. A half pound = 226 grams = 226/44 = 5.65 moles of Carbon dioxide. At STP (standard temperature and pressure), 5.65 moles occupies 5.65 x 22.1 liters per moles = 124.865 liters of gas. That is a large volume. For those of you more comfortable with cubic feet, 124.865 liters = 4.4 cubic feet which is roughly a 1.6'' x 1.6' x 1.6' box (about 20" x 20" x 20". 226 grams of solid dry ice would occupy 146 ml or a chunk about 5.3 mm x 5.3 mm x 5.3 mm or about 2" x 2" x 2". Quite small. So, imagine a 2" x 2" x 2" metal box that suddenly has to expand to the size of 20 inches x 20 inches x 20 inches. I am hesitant to explain this. So, I am going to stop and let you figure out what happens if you have the dry ice in a sealed metal box and it get warm and the gas needs to expand.

There are probably some others on this forum who can check my calculations. I might be slightly off, but I am close. The bottom line is that simply asking about the weight of dry ice you shipping is not enough.

If you are curious, check 349.232 under 349 Miscellaneous Hazardous Materials (Hazard Class 9) at this URL: [pe.usps.com] which says in part: "Dry ice (carbon dioxide solid) is produced by expanding liquid carbon dioxide to vapor and compacting the material into blocks. When dry ice converts (dissipates) to a gaseous form, it takes in heat from its surroundings. The resulting gas is heavier than air and can cause suffocation in confined areas as air is displaced. When dry ice is enclosed in a thick metal or other restrictive type of container, internal pressure builds up and could cause the container to rupture or explode. Mailpieces containing dry ice must be handled with care because its very low temperature (about –110° F or –79° C) can cause severe burns to skin upon direct contact."

To be mailable, "Packages containing dry ice must be packed in containers that permit the release of carbon dioxide gas and conform to 49 CFR 173.217 and 175.10(a)(10)"

I worked for a multinational company which had specially trained shipping specialists who could certify compliance with 49 CFR 173.217 and 175.10(a)(10) for all of the shipping companies. I was not qualified to be one of those specialists. Unless a Sheldon Cooper (or his equivalent, not the actor playing Sheldon on the Big Bang Theory) has taken a job as a clerk, determining that it is safe to ship dry ice is way beyond the pay grade of one of the clerks (and I mean no disrespect) unless it is accompanied by a lot of special paperwork.

Edited to fix a critical typo.

@siamese5555 wrote:

@parkcitybrian wrote:

@nimbusrogue wrote:

I'm doing a few of these today. For the cupcake one, did you get asked how much dry ice was in the package? When you are rejected, what are you purchasing to get a receipt? It says you can buy a 4 pack of stamps, a greeting card, mailer, ect. but it doesn't say how much they reimburse for this purchase.

i tell them "about 1/2 lb" so the box doesn't go over the weight restriction (2 lbs ) & the USPS doesn't have "4 packs" of stamps so buy 4 @ .49 = $1.96 & get a receipt as pov & you will be reimbursed.

Whatever the weight doesn't matter because it should not be accepted with any dry ice

The USPS employee told me some dry ice was OK but he needed to know how much was in it by weight. When I said I did not know, he refused to send it Priority.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2015 04:35AM by myst4au.