Since I began mystery shopping, I've learned a lot about how many different kinds of professionals get shopped---people from bankers to healthcare providers to funeral home workers and pet groomers. Does anybody know of any companies which audit lawyers or charities? I think those kinds of audits would be really interesting.

As a lawyer I don't think any firm would seek an audit because we have to keep everything related to our clients confidential. I can only see a firm getting investigated by the state attorney general or if they deal predominately with a single corporate client then that client. However, each time the audit would be done by attorneys and certainly would not be done by a mystery shop company.

Hous, thank you for the answer. The reason I asked was that healthcare providers are bound by similar confidentality laws for similar reasons, and some still get audited. I used to work in healthcare and was a bit scandalized to find out healthcare providers were shopped, but live and learn. There is moral ambiguity to scheduling these shops, but also moral ambiguity to not doing them. Private individuals or other interested parties may also hire MSCs to check up on certain professionals. This is not always illegal and would naturally just be done at the MSCs' discretion.

Just to add a little bit....as for the charities, these are not actual businesses, but many market research techniques could still be applied to auditing them. So, I wonder if any MSCs or MSC-like companies have found a niche auditing these employees for helpfulness, integrity, policy compliance, general knowledge, or fundraising technique. Churches get shopped, too, but quite frankly, I would count most of these as businesses.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2016 09:40AM by OceanGirl.

I just saw shops for a church you have to attend mass and review it. POV is a bulliten. I have seen Public Library shops. I also know that may goodwill locations are shopped but they are actually for profit if you look at their operations they just use loopholes to get the not for profit tax breaks.

@BuffaloNY101 wrote:

I just saw shops for a church you have to attend mass and review it. POV is a bulliten. I have seen Public Library shops. I also know that may goodwill locations are shopped but they are actually for profit if you look at their operations they just use loopholes to get the not for profit tax breaks.

Yup. Goodwill is definitely a 'for profit' set-up.I didn't realize that libraries were shopped---they are not really charities so much as public services, but that's DEFINITELY worth looking into. Thank you!

@BuffaloNY101 wrote:

I just saw shops for a church you have to attend mass and review it. POV is a bulliten. I have seen Public Library shops. I also know that may goodwill locations are shopped but they are actually for profit if you look at their operations they just use loopholes to get the not for profit tax breaks.

I've always been really curious as to how you'd go about mystery shopping a church; with religion you have so many differences of opinion, not to mention theology! It's chilling to try and quantify faith in a way. "I had to mark down the sermon because of the pastor's support for transubstantiation"

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2016 10:49AM by Misanthrope.

Medical clinics in rural areas are shopped in the state I live in. Sorry I can't give you any details as the ones offered are over 150 miles away, so only people local to the clinics can apply.

@cindy55 wrote:

Medical clinics in rural areas are shopped in the state I live in. Sorry I can't give you any details as the ones offered are over 150 miles away, so only people local to the clinics can apply.

Cindy, that's okay. I'm hooked up with an MSC that shops a lot of them in my area---I just mentioned them because I know they are some of the professionals who get shopped, and the fact that medical professionals, bankers, et cetera are bound by such strict laws was what made me wonder if there were legal shops. I also just have an interest in NPOs and think they would be fun, challenging, and/or worthwhile. These are not actual businesses, though, so they're generally going to have non- market research people doing performance audits. I was just wondering if there were any exceptions.

@Misanthrope wrote:

@BuffaloNY101 wrote:

I just saw shops for a church you have to attend mass and review it. POV is a bulliten. I have seen Public Library shops. I also know that may goodwill locations are shopped but they are actually for profit if you look at their operations they just use loopholes to get the not for profit tax breaks.

I've always been really curious as to how you'd go about mystery shopping a church; with religion you have so many differences of opinion, not to mention theology! It's chilling to try and quantify faith in a way. "I had to mark down the sermon because of the pastor's support for transubstantiation"

I have indeed mystery shopped churches in the past. You evaluated things like adequate handicapped-accessibility, were there any public-access restrooms (the new churches would have that), then you rated the overall friendliness, length of sermon, were you made to feel welcome , was there fellowship time after the service or not. The last church I evaluated was very unfriendly and you knew that visitors were not welcome there. No one spoke until we were walking out at the end and all that person said was a terse "You're new?". I was ever so sweet and replied "yes but don't worry, I won't be back."

There seems to be a confusion over what is an audit and what is a mystery shop. I work in health care. Audits are done by professional auditors. I am not saying mystery shoppers are not professional, just that they are not professional auditors. My hospital actually does hire a mystery shop company to "shop" their appointment services...This is in no way an audit. The shopper does not have access to any records of any other patient or anything else going on in the inner workings of the hospital. The shopper is simply posing as a real patient to see how smoothly the contact went and if the person on the hospital end of the phone was correctly following the rules for handling this sort of phone call.
I have seen some "audits" advertised at msc. These are generally some one counting something or checking it is correctly set up. The mystery shopper is not poring over the financial records of a movie theater for instance to see if all the money is accounted for. In health care they are not looking at someone else's experience in that health care setting to make sure proper procedures were followed and things were done correctly. I have seen some "audits" of independent contractors where the mystery shopper represents the company and goes out and checks this type of thing but it is on a very small scale and seems only to be about the one person you are contacting. I myself have "audited" parking garages. I did have to make sure the correct forms were being kept in safe places and that meetings were held regularly as specified by law and things like that. But I did not read the meeting minutes to see what actually went on etc. etc.

I have "audited" people in my profession(demonstrations)and have been audited myself. That has included auditors who never showed up and one who showed up five minutes before the demonstration was due to end and at a time when I was supposed to be cleaning up(not too professional). I would love to audit a library or a church...

I have done business audits at offices of lawyers, sheriffs, police department, churches, day cares, and many others. They were audits for compliance with the FCRA.

@OceanGirl wrote:

@BuffaloNY101 wrote:

I also know that may goodwill locations are shopped but they are actually for profit if you look at their operations they just use loopholes to get the not for profit tax breaks.

Yup. Goodwill is definitely a 'for profit' set-up.

I was going to mention Goodwill as well.

I want to take issue with the idea that Goodwill is a for-profit entity. I have done some volunteer work with Goodwill in the Seattle area, and I think what is not well known about Goodwill is the amount of free job training they provide with the "profits," aka revenue, that are brought in by the retail stores. There are a lot of people who are sort of invisible to society but who fall through the cracks when it comes to education and Goodwill provides essential services for those folks. It was really a learning experience for me as well when I first started learning about that organization.

I think Goodwill is run on a regional basis, so some regions might be better than others, and I don't want to hijack this post, but whenever I see these anti-Goodwill arguments online I feel the need to jump in.

About mystery shopping or auditing attorneys- That's a job I would do for free, just for fun hahaha.

But on a serious note, I wouldn't see why you couldn't mystery shop an attorney. Lots of businesses we shop deal in confidential information (banks, investment firms, online schools, healthcare, etc) and we still shop them.

It wouldn't be necessary for them to reveal any client's personal or confidential information, because you would be going in as a potential client and presenting your own scenario just like you do on any other shop. You are thinking about getting a divorce, you need to sue someone for something, you need to file bankruptcy, etc.

Law firms aren't run like other businesses because only lawyers can call those types of shots and while many have a savvy business sense they also understand the bar associations don't overlook breach of confidentiality and they also understand if an auditor thinks they see something fishy then they, as an attorney, are required to report it. Because of the ethical rules, it just opens a can of worms and would subject the attorney to potential liability that they are all too aware of. It's a professor that regulates itself and is very good at it.

Most firms that have prospective clients come in are solo attorneys that may have a single associate working for them. The firms you see on television typically don't have that sort of traffic. Of course there are some exceptions. Most managing attorneys/partners critique their associates based up how much they bill or collect. In fact I am audited quarterly as are all attorneys in my firm but it's done by my managing partner and she looks at not only the quality of my work but also whether I properly bill for my time. Because of our ethical and fiduciary duties to our clients, having a third party auditor look at our work, which is confidential in its entirety, is just not likely to be viewed favorably.

I typed that on my phone. Apologies if it doesn't make sense.

It makes sense. I just happen to work in an industry where I work with/around a lot of attorneys, but not being one myself, I might have a slightly different perspective.

@CeciliaM wrote:

@OceanGirl wrote:

@BuffaloNY101 wrote:

I also know that may goodwill locations are shopped but they are actually for profit if you look at their operations they just use loopholes to get the not for profit tax breaks.

Yup. Goodwill is definitely a 'for profit' set-up.

I was going to mention Goodwill as well.

I want to take issue with the idea that Goodwill is a for-profit entity. I have done some volunteer work with Goodwill in the Seattle area, and I think what is not well known about Goodwill is the amount of free job training they provide with the "profits," aka revenue, that are brought in by the retail stores. There are a lot of people who are sort of invisible to society but who fall through the cracks when it comes to education and Goodwill provides essential services for those folks. It was really a learning experience for me as well when I first started learning about that organization.

I think Goodwill is run on a regional basis, so some regions might be better than others, and I don't want to hijack this post, but whenever I see these anti-Goodwill arguments online I feel the need to jump in.

Do you know how much they pay those people who fell through the cracks? Depending on the region, it can be $5.40 an hour, $3.99 an hour, or even as little as $.22 cents an hour. Do you know how much their CEO makes? 6 figures, like any for-profit CEO would. They take advantage of an outdated clause in the fair labor act that allows businesses to legally pay disabled workers less than minimum wage.
Exploiting the disabled for cheap labor is not my idea of creating opportunity. Non-profit my ***.

Goodwill seems to get a lot of heat. The vast majority comes from bogus emails that get circulated on a regular basis. This from Snopes.com. I know a lot of people have issues with employees of nonprofits making a good salary. The reality is only small nonprofits could function with an entirely volunteer staff. While salaries may seem high, when compared to an equivalent position in private industry they are usually only a fraction of what the same position would pay. Of the Goodwill branches rated on Charity Navigator, all score four or five stars with five being the highest and their efficiency ratings are in the 80's, actually scoring slightly higher than Red Cross and the United Way.

"Goodwill: Goodwill Industries International is not a business that takes in donated items and resells them for a profit. It is a not-for-profit organization that provides job training, employment placement services and other community-based programs for people who have disabilities, lack education or job experience, or face employment challenges. Goodwill raises money for their programs through a chain of thrift stores which also operate as non-profits.

The CEO of Goodwill Industries International is not Mark Curran, nor does he make $2.3 million a year. The current President and CEO of Goodwill is Jim Gibbons, who in 2011 received a total reported compensation of $725,000."

LisaSTL, I was pointing out what the CEO makes to illustrate that despite claiming an NPO status, Goodwill does have the funds to pay their workers a minimum wage. However, they don't pay a minimum wage, sometimes not anywhere near a minimum wage. In my opinion it's exploitation.

I didn't suggest it was the right thing to do, but I'm curious where you got those numbers. From what little bit I found it seems only a small percentage of employees are paid that way, which is shameful and probably not the original intent of the law, but not all the workers are paid substandard wages or for piece work. One report I saw suggested it was around 7%. I'm all for exposing unfair practices. I'm also a proponent of providing details.

@LisaSTL wrote:

I didn't suggest it was the right thing to do, but I'm curious where you got those numbers. From what little bit I found it seems only a small percentage of employees are paid that way, which is shameful and probably not the original intent of the law, but not all the workers are paid substandard wages or for piece work. One report I saw suggested it was around 7%. I'm all for exposing unfair practices. I'm also a proponent of providing details.

I didn't intend to insinuate that you did think it's ok, I just wanted to clarify my original point.
And you're right, I should have included my sources. One source I did not include is a bulletin about this that is posted/distributed at one of the facilities that I deliver drugs to. They are a large nursing home type place for severely disabled people. Apparently they've had issues with Goodwill and some of their clients. For the sources I can share, please see below:

[www.forbes.com]


[www.change.org]

[m.huffpost.com]

Thanks. I was having trouble finding anything more recent than 2013 and it looks like those articles are from the same time. It has made me curious if any changes have been made over the last couple of years or if it all faded into the background. Maybe I will try some searches later this week or over the weekend.

That's a good point. I'd be curious to know if any changes were made as well.
I'm not sure when the bulletin at that facility was created, but I do know it was placed in public view within the last 6 months. I'll have to ask a staff member next time I have them on a drug route.
At the very least, the Govt could take that clause out of the labor act. It's from the 1930's, get with the times!

If I remember correctly, the reason Goodwill sometimes pays people under minimum wage is because they have a way to pay them per their performance so that they can employ less "efficient" people and not lose the efficiency in running their organization. Basically this way if they need two people to do the job that one person should be able to do, they don't have to pay double for it.

Another way to look at this is that in the workplace, you only have to accommodate employees's disability if they can do their job to capacity. For example, A person who is paralyzed from the waist down but mentally 100% and has use of their arms can do a job that's 100% sitting, like a desk/computer job. So you have to accommodate them in terms of providing a way for them to get to their desk, the bathroom, meetings, etc, in their wheelchair. You can't assign them an office on the 5th floor with no elevator. Etc.

However, a person who is paralyzed from the waist down probably cannot climb ladders or install light bulbs in the ceiling (I'm sorry in advance if you know someone in a wheelchair who can do this). So you don't have to accommodate them by calling someone else and paying extra every time a light bulb needs to be installed. You can just hire that other person who can change the lightbulb all the time and do all the other maintenance duties too. Wheelchair maintenance person is out of a job because employers don't have to give you a job, or keep you in your job if you can't do it.

Goodwill does not *have* to accommodate workers who are less than capacity because of their disabilities, but they do, and they take advantage of this federal law that allows them to pay them per their productivity rather than by the hour. I've read stuff where there were lots of examples where people worked for a couple of hours and wandered off for a couple of hours, or they didn't keep up a certain level of productivity. The oft cited person who was making 20 cents an hour or whatever, when you dig deeper into that, it's a person who was there all day but didn't do anything. If you do that in my workplace, you get fired. If you do that at Goodwill, you just get your pay docked. So they employ a lot of people who would otherwise be considered unemployable. Some of these people have chosen not to work at Goodwill but their other option is usually going on disability rather than working somewhere else for full wages. Some of the people choose to work at Goodwill because they like it, they would rather work than stay home, they are learning and improving, etc.

BTW, I didn't read all this stuff at the behest of the Goodwill. I read it all before I decided to volunteer for them because I had heard the same stuff everyone else had heard. But having volunteered for them, in Seattle at least I can say I have come to believe in their mission and their sincerity in helping people.

I can't even get into the topic of CEO salaries; if you compare CEO salaries of for-profits the size of Goodwill I am sure they would be much more than the CEO of Goodwill makes. But when you try to run an all-volunteer organization with an all-volunteer board, or even work for a small agency with shoestring salaries, let me know how that goes. I have done both and it's chaos and mayhem. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Etc. You need people who know what they are doing at the top for the money and goods you donate to be used with diligence and accountability.

It's kind of ironic to have this discussion with mystery shoppers because I don't think we always make minimum wage, at least not in my city where minimum wage is $13 an hour now. Between looking for jobs, corresponding with schedulers and editors, completing the jobs, completing the reports, etc. I don't want to think about how little I make per hour mystery shopping.

@CeciliaM wrote:

@OceanGirl wrote:

@BuffaloNY101 wrote:

I also know that may goodwill locations are shopped but they are actually for profit if you look at their operations they just use loopholes to get the not for profit tax breaks.

Yup. Goodwill is definitely a 'for profit' set-up.

I was going to mention Goodwill as well.

I want to take issue with the idea that Goodwill is a for-profit entity. I have done some volunteer work with Goodwill in the Seattle area, and I think what is not well known about Goodwill is the amount of free job training they provide with the "profits," aka revenue, that are brought in by the retail stores. There are a lot of people who are sort of invisible to society but who fall through the cracks when it comes to education and Goodwill provides essential services for those folks. It was really a learning experience for me as well when I first started learning about that organization.

I think Goodwill is run on a regional basis, so some regions might be better than others, and I don't want to hijack this post, but whenever I see these anti-Goodwill arguments online I feel the need to jump in.

my local goodwill is a HUGE money maker...hence the owner living in a 1m house....

Law firms are shopped for compliance with federal statutes when they charge clients with credit cards. Medical offices are shopped by their management for customer service, a consultant for evaluation regarding customer service in order to prepare an improvement report for the practice or check whether they follow correctly what he taught them in seminars, for compliance when the use credit cards and compliance with the statutes, for re-certification or initial application for membership or license in a specific board that needs a physical audit of the office for compliance. Libraries, municipal offices, YMCA, etc are shopped for customer service. Do not forget that a good manager wants to satisfy the customers, either residents-voters, or gym users or other services for the YMCA so they can increase the revenue and apply it to their other programs. Goodwill also shops herself because they want to increase profit so the revenue can be used for their social programs. There are all type of reasons. Once I was doing competitor fitness shops for a local YMCA that had renovated its gym and wanted to attract and maintain yuppies. Another time I had a filling done so the consultant evaluate problems in the customer service of both the staff and the dentist.

@nanabelle wrote:

my local goodwill is a HUGE money maker...hence the owner living in a 1m house....

There is no "owner" of a Goodwill.

Oh yeah, that reminds me.... I phone shopped a dentist once. It was a local dentist in a city nearby. They just wanted to know what happened when I called and asked how much an appointment cost.