From an email newsletter from Doug @ NWLPC (copied as written, although it kills me not to edit ):

"FORUMS

Yes shoppers, MSPs, do read the forums. The forums do serve a positive purpose but they are also a place where shoppers vent, or give bad advice. I personally have noticed that there are a core group of shoppers who give their opinion on MSPA, schedulers and mystery shopping companies that bear no merit. Unless they actually are an employee of a scheduling company, a mystery shopping company or the MSPA they really don't know.

The purpose of this article is to say to shoppers not to listen to rumors and by shoppers who hide behind as user name. And if you do post it really is not that difficult for MSP's to figure out who the shopper is.

I have read posts where shoppers bash a company because they were not paid and the company refuses to pay them. The shopper does not tell you that their shop report was falsified, that they never went to do the shop or submitted a falsified receipt. This is one example. There are always 2 sides of every story and I am confident shoppers know this.

About a year ago there was a Mystery Shopping Company who was in financial trouble and did not pay shoppers. They were a member of MSPA. Several shoppers complained to MSPA about this. After doing our due diligence MSPA terminated their membership for ethics violation. There is a forum who took full credit when in fact they had nothing to do with the termination.

So when you read the forums please keep in mind that there are two sides to every story and if you have a problem with a mystery shopping company contact them directly."

I wonder what the purpose of the email was, it kind of makes people hesitant to post here if the MSC's are going to go through all of the posts to find out what their IC's are saying about them. I never say anything negative about anyone on a public message board but I have always been comfortable posting here because I have been able to get so much valuable information. This email is making me rethink about posting, or shopping with that company.

Sounds like Doug is fending off some criticism publicly!

CANADAMOMMY Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sounds like Doug is fending off some criticism
> publicly!


Yes, that's the impression that I got too, I have always felt comfortable posting here it seemed like a 'safe place' to be able to vent, ask questions, and share ideas but lately it seems like the board is changing.

This is hilarious. First he says that we hide behind screen names. Then he says that it doesn't take much to find out who has posted which comment here. You cannot have it both ways.

It's also interesting that no one who does not work for an MSPA company can know what is going on. DUH!

Finally, I well remember that I was at the IMSC conference in Chicago when there was some criticism of MSPA. A Board Member of MSPA stood uo and said, "Well you folks hide behind screen names. That's so you can make accusations and remain unaccountable," or words to that effect. I stood up and shouted, "I am walesmaven, and there is not an MSC employee in this room, and few in the MSPA, who do not know my true name. I am not hiding. " After the session, I went over and introduced myself to both the MSPA Board Member and the fellow from the new management company, just to drive the point home.

I wonder if that was Doug representing the MSPA? As I recall, he has been to at least one IMSC conference. I'm pretty sure he was there, along with someone from MSPA's (then) new management company, trying to explain that a lot of problems in MSPA were going to disappear now that they had hired a new manager.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2014 08:40PM by walesmaven.

This is pretty funny stuff.

And, personally, I want you shoppers out there to stop giving me bad advice.

Because, "unless you actually are an employee of a scheduling company, a mystery shopping company or the MSPA you really don't know."

; -)

yeah, and will the "core group of shoppers who give their opinion on MSPA, schedulers and mystery shopping companies that bear no merit." start bearing your share of merit?

This forum kicks ass. Doug @ NWLPC, thanks for the laughs.

I am not afraid of the Big, Bad MSPA or the MSCs. I stand behind my reports and my posts on this forum. I may not use my real name in this forum but that is because of the freaks, weirdos and losers who lurk on public forums to cause trouble or steal identities. If you are a scheduler, editor or MSC owner, you know who I am in real life. I do not hide.

And what about those schedulers, editors and MSC owners who hide their identities on THIS forum. I know for a fact that schedulers have their own forum and they do not open it up to shoppers. Yet Jacob has opened this forum to everyone. And yes, schedulers talk about us and they name names.

Mantis Wrote:
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> This forum kicks ass. Doug @ NWLPC, thanks for
> the laughs.


I have to say that I would not have made it in the industry without this forum you all rock! Lisa STL was a lifesaver, Walesmaven you are the best, Cettie you made me look at the bright side of my mistake, James Bond 007 (I hope I have your name right) when I see your name in the Mystery shopping magazine I think to myself 'I know him!' I love this board and most of the people on it and if I don't say it often enough I will say it now THANK YOU for taking a newbie under your wing and helping to teach me the ropes of mystery shopping, thank you for telling me to not take it personally when I don't get a 10 on a report and finally just THANK you for helping me in the future because I know that I'm going to need you again sometime :-)

@ pammie8223 ~ Great "thank you" post but did you really have to go ahead and stroke LisaSTL's ego; She already has a big head! :-P

And yes, I am being a wise-a$$. It has been awhile since LisaSTL and I threw some good jabs at each other. I guess the Boston Red Sox winning the World Series shut her up for awhile.

@ LisaSTL ~ [bleacherreport.com]

Shop2LiveinFL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> did you
> really have to go ahead and stroke LisaSTL's ego;
> She already has a big head!

SO MUCH TRUTH!!!!

Shop2LiveinFL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @ pammie8223 ~ Great "thank you" post but did you
> really have to go ahead and stroke LisaSTL's ego;
> She already has a big head! :-P
>
> And yes, I am being a wise-a$$. It has been
> awhile since LisaSTL and I threw some good jabs at
> each other. I guess the Boston Red Sox winning
> the World Series shut her up for awhile.
>
> @ LisaSTL ~
> [bleacherreport.com]
> e-be-headed-for-red-sox-cardinals-world-series-rem
> atch-in-2014




Yep I have to give it to her because she deserves it. I would have given up a long time ago were it not for her and her words of encouragement.

I was just about to post that also. Seems rather petty. There was a bad MSC - it got deactivated. Does it really matter how? Wins for everyone.

I don't really understand the animosity toward the forum. Yes, there are shoppers that offer one-sided complaints, but I think most of them are called to the carpet pretty quickly by other shoppers, and this forum in particular does much more good than harm for the MS community IMHO.

As far as giving advice goes; Most MSCs have no idea what the other ones are doing!...and MSC's that are not part of the MSPA have no access to what is going on there. Much of the advice I have read here on how to deal with MSCs comes from shoppers with years of experience dealing with hundreds of companies, and shoppers as a group are much better advised on mystery shopping in general than any schedulers, editors or MSC owners that doesn't deal with all of the different companies, so Doug, you are pretty far out of line saying that advice from shoppers bears no merit (and that is not taking into consideration the years I spent as a scheduler, editor and manager of operations for a MSC).

Lastly, the particular dig at this forum for the Freeman debacle (It seems pretty obvious to me that is what he was referring to) is somewhat out of line as well. How does anyone know if the outcry on this forum is what prompted many shoppers to contact the MSPA about the problem? I certainly sent them a note after posting here about them. In addition, the action taken by the MSPA on that front was too-little-too-late. Freeman was so far in the hole to shoppers by the time the MSPA took any action that shoppers were out hundreds of thousands of dollars by my estimates. I don't think there was any global letter about the termination sent to the MSPA shopper pool and I seem to recall an MSPA member posting on behalf of Freeman not too long before their membership was terminated. The forum may not be the sole reason that Freeman shuttered it's doors or the MSPA decided to take action, but it definitely helped to apply pressure.

I also don't think my identity is much of a secret. Any members that were around back when I was scheduling know who I am, as do most of the MSCs I deal with, but for professional reasons I cannot post my last name here.

My quick read on Doug's Rant...
There are MSC out there that are greedy and will use, abuse and step all over shoppers.
We don't want shoppers to talk about it publically because GREEDY MSC want to take advantage of shoppers AS LONG AS THEY CAN!!


Dear Old Dougie boy, stop hiding behind you anonymous identity and answer these question for the forum.
Based upon YOUR rant and attack of this forum YOU OWE IT TO THE SHOPPERS ON HERE to step up and defend the actions of your fellow the MSC's that you Claim are being falsely maligned.

Lets start with
There is an MSC in another topic that every one is stating they are having problem receiving payment and having to chase down payment. Sometimes as much as 4-6 months late.
ARE you saying we are all LIARS???
That EVERY shopper that has done a shop for this MSC FALSIFIED a shop?? Mostly video shops.
HOW IS THAT DONE??????
I mean, based upon your logic.
No MSC would ever play games with a shoppers payment and anyone that say that is happening IS A LIAR???


Are you saying we should NOT voice what is happening, let the MSC walk all over us and just accept what ever an MSC does is acceptable and the shopper should just SHUT UP AND TAKE IT??

I guess its ALWAYS the shopper that did something wrong. There IS NO WAY an MSC is ever taking advantage of a shopper or made a mistake.

Jeez, how little do you think of the shoppers out there that are doing the leg work??

PITIFUL

In Doug's defense, he never said that forum members were lying. He said that the information they supplied had no merit. I assume that to mean that we simply don't understand what is going on behind the scenes with the MSCs.

Doug is not hiding. He runs a legitimate and, in my experience, very fair MSC. He works closely with the MSPA members and based on my conversations with him, he cares about MSing and shoppers. That said, I think Doug has very limited experience dealing with unscrupulous MSCs that give MSing a bad name. He mostly hears stories from MSC owners with legitimate shopper problems, and as a business owner himself, he probably understands their plight.

95% or more of MSCs are good companies and put forth an effort to treat shoppers fairly. I think Doug has very little understanding of the the problems that shoppers face when dealing with the other 5%, however; Shoppers that are left to chase payments, shops that are denied because of problems the shopper had no control over, and some of the unreasonable demands put upon shoppers for limited pay. On these subjects, shoppers ARE the foremost authority and the argument we face here really represents the problem with the MSPA....The have seemingly made a decision that shoppers are a liability, rather than an asset. They chose to cut shoppers from the conventions a few years back and decided to focus instead on business strategies to keep their business going. They have formulated a planned campaign to lobby for the IC status to remain in place and have done little to continue the shopper education that they started.

The value of having this forum is lost when our ability to present our perspective is muffled, even when someone's perspective doesn't align with our own. Most of us are not so naive as to think everything posted here is the objective and unvarnished truth. We can usually spot the trolls. But we also know there is value in spotting the trends. When one person says a MSC didn't pay them, I might make a mental note but I won't "be warned" that they are doing something unethical and I am bound to be their next victim. But maybe, just maybe, another shopper who did not get paid sees the post and it triggers the push they need to post their story, too.

Freeman Group's problems were being talked about for years. I knew about them when I took the last job for which I received no payment. Had this forum not existed, I might have taken many more assignments from them. The forum saved me.

As for hiding behind screen names, well, we have to. My first name is Jon and my last name starts with "K". Do I want a car salesman or hotel manager I just shopped or am about to shop to google my name and find my mystery shopping posts? But I hope I have reached a posting threshold where it is obvious to everyone I didn't just sign up for the forum to libel some MSC I hold a grudge against.

To my fellow shoppers, I hope all of you continue meeting me by this water cooler so we can offer advice, rant, promote the good, and just socialize. Mystery shopping is such a lonely profession. We can't tell most people what we do, and we generally do it alone. Having a meeting spot to get together with the rest of you helps me keep my sanity.

The below is merely my take on Doug's statements.

Doug states---The forums do serve a positive purpose but they are also a place where shoppers vent, or give bad advice.

BOB'S comment---That's logical and true of all forums.

Doug continues---I personally have noticed that there are a core group of shoppers who give their opinion on MSPA, schedulers and mystery shopping companies that bear no merit.

BOB'S reply---If the above is correct, I haven't read such opinions, but it's certainly possible I've missed those threads.

Doug concludes his 1st paragraph---Unless they actually are an employee of a scheduling company, a mystery shopping company or the MSPA they really don't know.

BOB'S thought---I agree. Shoppers may deduce, surmise and conclude, but they couldn't know for sure.

Doug's direction part #1---The purpose of this article is to say to shoppers not to listen to rumors and by shoppers who hide behind as user name.

BOB'S question---Does the above apply to Shopper Bob, AKA Bob Engleman?

Doug's direction part #2---And if you do post it really is not that difficult for MSP's to figure out who the shopper is.

BOB'S opinion---Now that's a clear warning.

Doug's 3rd paragraph---I have read posts where shoppers bash a company because they were not paid and the company refuses to pay them. The shopper does not tell you that their shop report was falsified, that they never went to do the shop or submitted a falsified receipt. This is one example. There are always 2 sides of every story and I am confident shoppers know this.

BOB'S agreement---I've no doubt the afore typed is true in many cases.

Doug's 4th paragraph---About a year ago there was a Mystery Shopping Company who was in financial trouble and did not pay shoppers. They were a member of MSPA. Several shoppers complained to MSPA about this. After doing our due diligence MSPA terminated their membership for ethics violation. There is a forum who took full credit when in fact they had nothing to do with the termination.

BOB'S response---Having been in this business for 11 yrs. and reading of countless difficulties my brother and sister shoppers encountered with Freemen, all while the MSPA remained on the sidelines until Jacob's letter, my opinion is 180 degrees out-of-phase with Doug's words on this matter.

Doug's closing advice---So when you read the forums please keep in mind that there are two sides to every story and if you have a problem with a mystery shopping company contact them directly."

BOB'S agreement---While completely disagreeing with #4, Doug and I are congruent with his closing. Folks, the overwhelming number of MSCs are reputable, hard working and deserving of their profits. As such, they have zero obligation to treat any contractor in a manner that people deem as fair, a word I've often wished didn't exist. As I've posted on several occasions, this IS business.

I am going to add my 2 cents one more time.
I can not see ANY reason to give DOUGIE a pass for this or any slack.
IN fact, maybe HE should be tossed from the MSPA!!
Here is why
Last summer a poster came on this forum and stated about a payment issue with IR.
I then also came on here and also stated I was having the same issue.
Initially we were both criticized and others quickly chimed in with an automatic defense that IR would not play games with a payment.
That was, until those OTHERS started checking their logs prompted by what we had said and realized THEY TOO had not been paid yet for past due work.
Ultimately, even the guy that sends out these newsletters did not realize he was overdue on payment until he read what was posted on here and checked his shop log.

STEP UP member of this forum, how many of you did not realize IR was NOT voluntarily paying you and making you chase them down for payment that was seriously past do. AND STILL IS PLAYING THAT GAME

HOW MANY WERE PROMPTED TO CHECK YOUR LOGS AND REALIZE PAYMENT WAS DUE TO YOU BY IR???????

MY pointy being, Dougie boy is clearly saying it was WRONG for us to bring this to your attention.
If we were not receiving payment, It could have ONLY have been because we the shopper did something wrong.

This is clearly a shot at the integrity of every shopper
Talk about stereotyping.
Maybe ALL SHOPPRERS should boycott NWPLC when he takes such an attitude about shoppers and trying to suppress the truth about the way some MSC treat their shoppers.

Hey DOUGIE, STEP UP
Pick up the phone, call IR and tell them to start paying shoppers VOLUNATARILLY and STOP making them chase down every payment for every shop.
THEY ARE STILL DOING THIS. I have two shops this weekend that just passed the 60s day status.

Until you do that, You have no stand to criticize or say jack SH*T about what shoppers post on this forum about an MSC!!


RANT OVER

Why is Doug sending out an Email rather than posting on the forum to clarify things? Lots of MSC's post here to thwart rumors.

Silly boy!!

jackaroe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Hey DOUGIE, STEP UP
> Pick up the phone, call IR and tell them to
> start paying shoppers VOLUNATARILLY and STOP
> making them chase down every payment for every
> shop.
> THEY ARE STILL DOING THIS. I have two shops this
> weekend that just passed the 60s day status.


Agreed that one of the biggest benefits of the forum is the ability to inform other shoppers of valid issues with MSCs.

That said, I can't see any way that's it's Doug's responsibly to advise a competing MSC on appropriate business practices. If they are MSPA members and valid complaints are brought forth to the MSPA, I can see a responsibility to warn them and ultimately suspend their membership, but I'm not sure if the MSC in question is an MSPA member or if any complaints about this have been directed to them.

The part that I'm most confused about it why you would continue to take shops for a company that you have warned others about and is still doing this? You expect a third part to step up and address the issue, but are allowing it continue when you take their shops. The surest way to get this MSC to comply is for shoppers to stop taking assignments!

It's a newsletter.

And he's right.

Careful reading of the message leaves me feeling his points are valid, reasonable, and clearly stated.

The things he brings up about the forum ring true for every forum I'm a member of -- a core number of alarmists/stirrer-ups-of-trouble-if-they-can/trolls, etc, and a majority of members who are there to
share, educate, mentor, or learn.

cease

It's correct that the CORE group of shoppers posting here offer opinions that have no merit?

I could see an argument for disregarding the advice of a fringe group of posters, but the core is the foundation of the forum, representing the principle behind it, if I understand the definition correctly. I would consider myself part of that group, being a long-time poster...and I'm offended by that statement!

The majority (of which you are notably one!) is here to learn, teach, mentor, and help.

Mayhap I misused the word "core". I meant it as the indigestible part!

Perhaps "a small cadre" would have been better word usage!

cease

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2014 06:08PM by ceasesmith.

It wasn't your use of the word that I was offended by, cease. It was Doug's line, "I personally have noticed that there are a core group of shoppers who give their opinion on MSPA, schedulers and mystery shopping companies that bear no merit." I was surprised when you agreed, given my understanding of the term as it was used.

Now, perhaps Doug was also meaning something else when he wrote that. If one were to take his writing literally, it seems he would be referring to mystery shopping companies that bear no merit...and I do freely give my opinion on the MSPA, schedulers and meritless MSC's.

Doug owes an apology to shoppers no matter what; For either issuing a meritless and offensive blanket statement about the core forum posters, or for publishing such a poor example of grammar and syntax that it spawned this discussion.

In only want to make point about screen names.

this:
"may not use my real name in this forum but that is because of the freaks, weirdos and losers who lurk on public forums to cause trouble or steal identities."

I dont post on a certian other MS forum becuase they want a variation of my real name. I do not "hide" behind a screen name to hide from MSPs. I use a screen name because in 1999 I used to use my real name online and a freak used it to look me up in the phone book, stalk me, call me on the phone, and ask me when he could shave my arms. I dont feel like repeating that experience!

Screen names are a good idea no matter what type of forum you are on: Mystery shopping or not. I often teach technology classes and I would never advise people to use their real name on an Internet forum of any kind.

So, "if you do post it really is not that difficult for MSP's to figure out who the shopper is." Then there should be no problem with screen names hiding anyone, right?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2014 12:12AM by Sarin.

I thought you liked having your arms shaved? My Bad! j/k

lol

Personally I have had a problem with only ONE MSC, and I DID contact them directly, eventually having to call the president of the company to have the problem resolved. I am identifying neither the MSC nor the issue I had. It took time for the problem to be resolved but it was, although I did mention in my phone call that, although I was hesitant to do so, I would contact MSPA and the BBB if necessary. The company president sent me an email within 2 days and the problem was fixed. Will I accept other assignments from this MSC? I don't know. I know Doug with NWLPC is speaking from the perspective of the owner/operator of an MSC. I believe he is a straight arrow, and I have never had a problem with his company. What we ICs do is important and interesting work, not always high paying but even then the assignments have their benefits.

I suggest that if we post our issues with FAIRNESS, realizing that yes sometimes there will be problems, and balance what Doug says with a sense of high integrity and the same ethical behavior we expect of the companies for whom we complete assignments, we will do well. Challenges happen in life; if they didn't, we wouldn't grow and learn to stretch our wings. So let's keep on doing what we are doing, and keep the sense of fun in it as well. Blessings to all my new friends in the Forum.