bgriffin makes the point very clearly. He doesn't like narrative shops and doesn't take them.

I'm not defending the amount of work required by the shop, and was not defending the MSC to begin with. The OP stated the shop was "awful" and when I looked at the four other posts created by her, I noted that they were all highly negative toward anything that required narrative, and contained particularly subjective insults toward the MSCs discussed.

My point was simply that there is no mistreatment of the shopper in this case. The shop requirements are clearly posted. If a shop was rejected after a shopper fulfilled the requirements, I would absolutely be defending the shopper. I have done so many times in the past.

What makes me feel like I need to respond is when absolutely no positive contributions have been made to the forum, and posts are riddled with negatively and/or seemingly not taking responsibility for one's own part in creating the problem. Looking at Dave's post above, I will say that I feel inclined to defend the MSC slightly since the OP was apparently not submitting the required detail, seemingly adding subjective content and then claiming professionalism while distorting the feedback provided by the MSC.

I take shops all of the time and later realize that I've bitten off more than I can chew, or that the experience is not as good as expected through no fault of the MSC. I might post an anecdote about how problematic it was, but I don't blame the MSC for not posting shops to my liking. I have lived across the street from this particular burger outlet for the past two years and never taken this assignment. Why? Well...mostly because I don't like the buns, but also because I went through the training, passed the test and realized they the shops just don't fit well into what I do. Why would I take an assignment that's clearly too much work for the fee and product offered?

bgriffin, it's a good thing you're a talented sit down comedian because as a food critic you don't cut it. Sorry.

Just a couple of additions to my post. this shop was dropped on me at the last minute and I agreed to do it because I had to be in the area anyway, and I had been curious about the restaurant because of it's unusual name.. I literally had 5 minutes to prepare myself for this shop before I left and considering what a pain in the ass the certification test was for it that should have been a clue to me, however I generally choose not to do fast food because if I am going to work that hard I want to have a meal that I can savor. So I didn't even have time to download the form. Also as with many shops I had to get to the place at least an hour before it closes and what with getting it at the last minute and having to drive 66 miles, I really didn't have any time to even think about the store.I was literally reading the instructions at traffic lights and in the car just before I walked in... As for this being an "upscale burger joint" the only upscale element is the price. You stand in line to get your food at a counter, you are lucky if there is even any place to sit down. The tables don't have chairs they have high stools and you are literally elbow to elbow with your next door neighbor. and Sentry is quite adamant that you only spend 20 minutes in the shop. Sorry but 20 minutes to me is a fast food shop. Upscale burger is a Red Robin where you have nice tables, big screen tv's and the opportunity to get a good microbrew. Which before anyone points this out you can get a beer at this restaurant too , but the 20 minutes you are supposed to drink it in for Sentry still screams Fast food to me. If they want me to savor the food and describe it in a artful way they might want to give me more time in the place to do it, because in that 20 minutes I am also supposed to evaluate the shape of the restrooms. I would rather dii close- looks shops and have a nice meal then I feel like the long narrative is worth my meal.

For clarity:

The guidelines related to the time in restaurant are as follows (cut and paste from the guidelines):

Your total time in the restaurant must be at least 20 minutes. Your total time in the restaurant should not be over an hour. If you run into a friend or colleague, you may not invite them to dine with you or engage in an extended conversation. You must leave promptly after you have completed the assignment.

We describe our restaurant clients based on accepted industry categories and this client is designated in the Fast Casual restaurant segment.

The quiz consists of 14 questions that appear on one page. The quizzes are part of our effort to put our shoppers in the best position to succeed. It's important that assignment guidelines are clear, concise and easy to understand. The quizzes help us ensure that we presented the required information clearly that key parts of the guidelines are not vague or contradictory.

This particular location has both high and low tables.

@aprilredbird wrote:

Just a couple of additions to my post. this shop was dropped on me at the last minute and I agreed to do it because I had to be in the area anyway, and I had been curious about the restaurant because of it's unusual name.. I literally had 5 minutes to prepare myself for this shop before I left and considering what a pain in the ass the certification test was for it that should have been a clue to me, however I generally choose not to do fast food because if I am going to work that hard I want to have a meal that I can savor. So I didn't even have time to download the form. Also as with many shops I had to get to the place at least an hour before it closes and what with getting it at the last minute and having to drive 66 miles, I really didn't have any time to even think about the store.I was literally reading the instructions at traffic lights and in the car just before I walked in... As for this being an "upscale burger joint" the only upscale element is the price. You stand in line to get your food at a counter, you are lucky if there is even any place to sit down. The tables don't have chairs they have high stools and you are literally elbow to elbow with your next door neighbor. and Sentry is quite adamant that you only spend 20 minutes in the shop. Sorry but 20 minutes to me is a fast food shop. Upscale burger is a Red Robin where you have nice tables, big screen tv's and the opportunity to get a good microbrew. Which before anyone points this out you can get a beer at this restaurant too , but the 20 minutes you are supposed to drink it in for Sentry still screams Fast food to me. If they want me to savor the food and describe it in a artful way they might want to give me more time in the place to do it, because in that 20 minutes I am also supposed to evaluate the shape of the restrooms. I would rather dii close- looks shops and have a nice meal then I feel like the long narrative is worth my meal.

So Steve, I I don't want to get into a pissing contest and am not looking at making an enemy by being contentious, but I think you may've missed some of my posts because I have had some positive ones and I think you may have certainly misunderstood at least one of them. I like Bestmark and if I said anything negative about them, which I honestly don't remember doing it was a mistake, perhaps a middle of the night half crazed with sleep deprivation comment intended for another company and misquoted . I have discovered the work for the pay for Bestmark is reasonable and they pay quickly and are readily available to talk to when I have a question. I don't dislike narrative heavy assignments- I often enjoy doing the narratives. What I dislike are narrative heavy assignments for very little pay. You see while I am a newbie to the forum I have been Mystery Shopping for over 12 years. I quit doing it for awhile because I moved to a small rural town where the opportunities were few and the shops all at least 60 - 110 miles away. My objection is this- As is happening all over America employers ( whether by independent contractor or not- are paying less and less money while expecting more and more work, and frankly those at the top are being unduly enriched while those of us at the bottom are often really getting screwed. Americans are working more hours for less money than at any time since the turn of the century and I don't mean 2000. As for positive things about certain companies let me say, I really like Beyond Hello, They are easy to work with, the forms take a reasonable amount of time and the pay while not outstanding is reasonable for the work involved. Ditto with Monterey Mystery and one of my early shops that I shopped with was a closer look, and yes they are narrative heavy but its good value for your time. You get a nice meal and a good experience and that is worth giving them a really descriptive heavy narrative to give them good value. Likewise I have had great experience with Goodwin Hospitality. and I was not trashing Sentry Marketing per se although if your look at other peoples posts many people do not like Sentry, I was talking about how unreasonable the narrative is for the work involved and I stick by that statement. If you read my entire post about Trend source than you know I said not only are they low pay but I have done 7 shops in 2 months and haven't seen a dime, and the office manager was pretty snotty when I emailed her and asked her to think about reissuing checks that she claims were sent that I never received. I am now on a direct deposit with them. As for schedulers- I have had good experiences with Cathy at Satisfaction Services, Alma and Mike at Trend Source, and Regina at Sentry Marketing is a real sweetheart. Suzette Drake at Service Research Corp, while a stickler for detail for her bank shops is reasonable and easy to work with and the pay at $75.00 per bank shop is very fair even though the learning curve for those shops are long and difficult. The MSC business has changed a lot since I started and I also have often bitten off more than I can chew and I am really rethinking what I am willing to take,because often the return is simply not worth it for the investment of time, and for companies like Trend Source which require out of pocket payments when they don't readily reimburse it starts to become expenses. As for GFK just read the threads on them. My last shop for them had 30 pages of form and narrative and I think I was getting $12.00. Not all the companies will let you see what is involved as for the forms or the companies which can be hidden so it isn't always easy to determine the workload up front. I feel certain that this is not accidental. For all those people who were so gentle and understanding and who didn't feel the need to attack me because I expressed an opinion of feeling that I don't want to do narrative heavy assignments without being adequately compensated thank you for your understanding. I hope I have shed some light on how I feel on the subject and also given some positive feedback on companies I have enjoyed working for to assist other shoppers in determining whether they want to work for them or not, and of course we can all have good and terrible experiences with the same company. While one person may have a great experience another person may have an awful one with the same company, but that is how life is right?

April, I appreciate the positive feedback...and I certainly understand that Bestmark and GFK have given shoppers many reasons to complain about them. Trendsource as well. My point was that you were lodging some rather negative complaints in your initial postings, and then later alluded to the fact that you may be responsible for some of the issues as well. You did not utilize direct deposit initially and moved after completing shops for TS, complained about a shop being further away than your GPS indicated, and admittedly did not initially read or apparently understand the instructions from Sentry.

The thing is, I don't think think Sentry wants the food described in an artful way at all, and they clearly don't want your opinion of the flavor in the food description. They simply want a detailed description of the presentation, temperature and freshness of the ingredients.

It's clear from your post that you didn't like the burger outlet, but isn't there room to just say, "Boy, did I make a mistake in agreeing to this shop without reading the requirements when I had 3 other shops to do."? That would have evoked empathy from me, because I can relate to it.

Just like ACL, Sentry has some shops that are a better value than others. Most of the ACL dining shops pay no fee at all, but if you really like the outlet, then it may be a good deal for you. I come down on ACL all of the time for not paying a fee with the their shops, but I don't complain about it after taking them. I stick to the fee-based and bonuses shops. The fee problems in the MSC industry are specifically based on shoppers currently accepting shops that have no or poor fees attached, so if you want the assignments to remunerate you well, then you need to decline the ones that do not.

So very very true, That is kind of my point. it was a burger with American Cheese and not anything exceptional, it wasn't even a particularly well seasoned burger. and they didn't bother to ask me if I like it medium, rare, well done etc. It's not like we are talking about Escargot' dripping in a delightfully strong garlic butter sauce with Truffle champinons and a flan so light and airy you could fly over the moon with it. Truthfully for a whole lot less money and similar atmosphere I like Good Times mini (bambino) burgers with their ciabatta buns and their grass fed beef. My objective again is that this was just a fast food restaurant with a good but not exceptional burger so trying to make my description sing it's praisesis a lot of work for $4.00 and one very overpriced burger.

We all get stressed and overbooked now and then but taking on too much work or taking it on in a rush is something we can learn to control. One of the advantages of this line of work is that we make our own schedules to suit ourselves. Learning when to say yes and when to say no is part of the learning curve no matter how long we have been shopping.

As far as not getting paid in seven weeks of shopping for Trendsource, I understand your concern and I also understand that not getting reimbursements when expected can be inconvenient. I hope those checks catch up with you but I can understand their reluctance to re-issue.

Stop payment charges are expensive and it sounds like you didn't offer to assume those, or at least you didn't mention it in your post. I'm not saying you should have to pay stop payment charges, but I am saying someone will have to pay them if the checks are reissued. If the company sent them to your last address they should catch up with you soon and I'm hoping that happens and this unpleasant issue is resolved. If the post office did not forward and instead returned the checks to Trendsource then they are out there in limbo land unaccounted for until they reach Trendsource.

If you feel you've been mistreated in this thread, I regret that happened. If you feel I've been unfair or uncaring in my comments, I apologize for hurting your feelings but I don't think I'm wrong in what I've said. It takes a great deal of time to work through some of these threads and try to address the issues and offer suggestions and solutions, and it would be great if the efforts of those who respond on these threads could be better appreciated. Just as you have turned against the companies when things didn't go well for you and held them responsible for what I see as your own errors, you have turned against some of us because you don't like our comments. That is not unexpected. Sometimes we are able to help someone. Most of the time, not really.

And as I said before, I don't like the burgers there (for different reasons that you), but my closest friend loves them and since the restaurant was across the street from me, I would go there with him occasionally. If it was a shop for 2 guests, I probably would have taken it.

If I can offer you any advice to be more successful at dining assignments, it's to understand that you don't have to like the food in order to describe it as required. Just like the feedback from the editor said, the reader should not be able to tell if you liked the food or not from your description. You can say that is was difficult to detect any seasoning on the burger. You can say that it was hot, juicy, cold or dry. You can say that the bun was soft and warm, but you can't say that you think it's disgusting to put an egg wash on buns. Well...I'm the one that thinks that. You can say that it had what appeared to be a standard slice of American cheese, but you can't say that great burgers don't include American cheese.

You don't need to praise the food but should not be insulting it either. The person who ultimately fronts the small fee for this shop has based his entire business model on this burger recipe, so I'm pretty sure they just want it to come out hot, fast, fresh and as ordered, and with their existing recipe. In my few experiences at the outlet, they have delivered my burger to me and checked back to be sure that I was happy with it, then asked if I needed anything else and cleared my tray. That's more than one can expect from most fast food places.

Steve I wasn't calling there company a joke, I was calling the requirements where they wanted me to go back and rewrite the report so they could have the experience and taste the food through my words- that's all.

Understood, except there is no specific requirement for tasting the food through your words, as pointed out multiple times in this thread. They specifically stated that they wanted to visualize the food through your words, which would require a different narrative.

If I can paraphrase, you were upset that the MSC required you to modify your report to bring it up to the standards you agreed to before accepting the shop and that were clearly demonstrated, in order to have the shop accepted. That's the joke?

Thanks for your participation, aprilredbird, and welcome to the forum. Feel free to express your opinions any time here on the forum. There's no requirement for objective comments as there would be if we were doing a shop report. You expressed your opinions very nicely, with no bashing.

I agree that "bashing" posts using incendiary language should be criticized and not allowed to stand, but when a newbie expresses an opinion about a shop and/or a MSC,shutting the newbie down because we don't like what was said about a company is just plain mean and unwelcoming.

I've noticed there are a lot of complaints about Sentry, and there seem to be some who think Sentry should be on an untouchable list. I don't agree, and I'm interesting in reading the comments about working with Sentry, both good and bad.

I certainly agree that working for Sentry is too much work for the $. And I agree that aprilredbird's shop did sound awful.

@roflwofl wrote:

I agree that aprilredbird's shop did sound awful.

roflwofl, with the obvious exception of the fact that we all agree that the assignment is probably underpaid for the amount of narrative required, what sounds so awful about the shop to you?

@SteveSoCal wrote:

That's the joke?

Who cares what the joke is? This has become a Bash The Newbie thread using word games. redbird didn't bash anyone. Why is she getting beat up over her opinion?

The Joke may be the big deal that was made over a little story a newbie told us about what she thought was an awful shop.

Is this supposed to be a Welcome Committee? Maybe we should post a warning in the forum guidelines that anyone posting experiences about Sentry that are not wonderful will be attacked and discredited.

@Jay C wrote:

Is this supposed to be a Welcome Committee? Maybe we should post a warning in the forum guidelines that anyone posting experiences about Sentry that are not wonderful will be attacked and discredited.

Can I like this thrice? The word "Sentry" appears and suddenly so do Steve and Mary. And as with Dave, "The shopper is always wrong."

@Jay C wrote:

Why is she getting beat up over her opinion?

No one is getting beat up for their opinion...unless that opinion is that we should be able to post fallacious information about shops and receive the full support of the community in doing so. There are no word games taking place. The OP has continually insisted that she did not like the reporting requirements for the food, while also giving the impression that she did not fully understand them. I made an attempt to point that out, unsuccessfully.

I have stated multiple times that I agree the shop is probably not worth the amount of work involved. It is specifically not wonderful. The OP at her own admission was not prepared for the shop, did not download the sample form before attempting the shop, and did not accurately understand the timing requirements for being at the location. The problem was further confounded by her apparently not understanding the requirements for reporting on the food.

This could be any MSC and my reaction would be the same. If this was another MSC, would the rest of you be defending an unprepared shopper? I think your animosity toward Dave colors your view of what is appropriate behavior.

I get it that you like hurl insults at Dave, but what has Sentry done in this instance that's inappropriate? Claims were made about the shop requirements and requested revisions that were inaccurate. He simply posted the accurate information.

I have always thought this forum was a place where newbies could come to learn about the industry, and how to be better shoppers. Isn't advising them to understand shop guidelines before attempting a shop, explaining where they may have been mistaken and pointing out an appropriate way to respond with revisions a good place to start?

Please accept my apologies for the extensive quotes here. My comments are in red and what I am responding to specifically is in bold.

@SteveSoCal wrote:

Actually, she started off by saying that she did a shop and it was "Awful". She then complained about the distance she traveled and the certification required, as well as the time it took to complete the report.

You could say it was the most work vs. payoff of all shops performed that day and that would probably sound more objective. The travel is really not pertinent since you were traveling for the other shops anyway.

If you had completed one of the burger shops previously, you would not have to deal with certification, probably not have it returned to you since you had a better understanding of the writing requirements, and probably not spent a whole 2 hours on it. If you spent 90 minutes on an assignment that netted you $4 and a free lunch, would you start a new thread to complain about how terrible the assignment was? I can think of burger shops for 4 or 5 other companies of a similar quality that would be about the same work vs. payoff.

@SteveSoCal wrote:

The outlet is not fast food, however. It's an upscale burger experience. Fast food is about timing and being extremely affordable. This client is part of the recent wave of restaurants that charge a higher fee for quality food.

Goodwin offers a very similar shop with a computer to the Sentry client. It reimburses $18 total, which includes the shop fee, and it cost me $16 on my last visit. The Goodwin report took me 90 minutes to complete, yet I don't see people making complaints about it only offering a $2 fee and taking 90 minutes. Why is that?

ACL also has similar assignments that pay nothing and take well over an hour to report.

@SteveSoCal wrote:

@CaliGirl925 wrote:

In this case, however, it seems she does have some objective information about the shop and requirements.

Sorry, we cross-posted before so my response above was to Flash.

I'm just trying to point that the thread was not saying, "I find X-burger shops too difficult for what they pay." It was specifically directed at the company for offering a poor experience, when as pointed out above, there are very similar experiences with other companies and the requirements are very clear BEFORE you accept the assignment.


The exact shopper quote was "I just did my first shop for them and it was awful, low pay, long long ways away and I had to do a certification test for a burger joint that paid $4.00, and then it had this ridiculously long narrative and form which took me about 2 hours to do, and then I get an email saying it was rejected because my narrative describing the way my burger tasted just wasn't descriptive enough . . ." This obviously was not edited subsequent to the bashing she received. If you are objective you will see the complaint on the shop was paramount and the subsidiary complaints were just that--not a bash of the company even though their name was in the title of the thread.

If a shopper had posted 4 different shops handled on their 122 mile trip, pointed out the fee and workload of each, then they could say that they have learned a lesson not to take the fast-casual assignments in a group, or that they payoff was not as good as other shops. It sounds like the shopper just doesn't like these type of shops and is blaming the MSC.

@SteveSoCal wrote:

Understood, CaliGirl925

I don't want to stifle posters, but we shoppers are supposed to be known for our objectivity, so I would like to encourage posts that address the specific issues with shops or MSCs, rather than calling a company a joke.

Yes, and this is what we expect of you to the nth degree because of your tenure here. That is why we wonder that you would get so engaged with this shopper on this shop with this company and telling him/her all that he/she should have known or done before accepting the shop. The shopper was venting frustration that could have been self directed or other directed, but you chose to interpret it as denigrating to the company.

There are numerous threads already about the amount of work required for the burger shops. The OP probably would have gotten a more sympathetic ear from me if adding an opinion to one of those.

@SteveSoCal wrote:

For those that think the OP has made an informative post, you may want to look at the other posts made since they joined the forum a few weeks ago. She describes Trendsource shops shops as being "narrative heavy" and called them terrible. She has had problems with GFK and Bestmark as well. I haven't read anything but controversial and negative posts, peppered with some extremely prejudiced comments about each of the companies and their staff.

Definitely no bashing of the OP here, huh?


Clearly this is someone who does not like writing narrative, taking on an admittedly narrative heavy shop and also admitting that she took the shop hoping to get some "free food".

If anyone wants to get the information about this particular shop, you can go to the Sentry site, see examples and even take a test that makes sure you understand the requirements of the shop. Wouldn't that be the best way to learn about the shop?

@SteveSoCal wrote:

bgriffin makes the point very clearly. He doesn't like narrative shops and doesn't take them.

I'm not defending the amount of work required by the shop, and was not defending the MSC to begin with. The OP stated the shop was "awful" and when I looked at the four other posts created by her, I noted that they were all highly negative toward anything that required narrative, and contained particularly subjective insults toward the MSCs discussed.

My point was simply that there is no mistreatment of the shopper in this case. The shop requirements are clearly posted. If a shop was rejected after a shopper fulfilled the requirements, I would absolutely be defending the shopper. I have done so many times in the past.

What makes me feel like I need to respond is when absolutely no positive contributions have been made to the forum, and posts are riddled with negatively and/or seemingly not taking responsibility for one's own part in creating the problem.

There are numerous shoppers who post complaints as their early posts and I don't see you tackling them. Mostly first posts are either introductions or complaints as that is what gets people motivated to finally break the ice and post. Many of those can be encouraged towards being more positive contributory members but very few who mention Sentry survive that long.

Looking at Dave's post above, I will say that I feel inclined to defend the MSC slightly since the OP was apparently not submitting the required detail, seemingly adding subjective content and then claiming professionalism while distorting the feedback provided by the MSC.

I take shops all of the time and later realize that I've bitten off more than I can chew, or that the experience is not as good as expected through no fault of the MSC. I might post an anecdote about how problematic it was, but I don't blame the MSC for not posting shops to my liking. I have lived across the street from this particular burger outlet for the past two years and never taken this assignment. Why? Well...mostly because I don't like the buns, but also because I went through the training, passed the test and realized they the shops just don't fit well into what I do. Why would I take an assignment that's clearly too much work for the fee and product offered?

@SteveSoCal wrote:

April, I appreciate the positive feedback...and I certainly understand that Bestmark and GFK have given shoppers many reasons to complain about them. Trendsource as well. My point was that you were lodging some rather negative complaints in your initial postings, and then later alluded to the fact that you may be responsible for some of the issues as well. You did not utilize direct deposit initially and moved after completing shops for TS, complained about a shop being further away than your GPS indicated, and admittedly did not initially read or apparently understand the instructions from Sentry.

The thing is, I don't think think Sentry wants the food described in an artful way at all, and they clearly don't want your opinion of the flavor in the food description. They simply want a detailed description of the presentation, temperature and freshness of the ingredients.

It's clear from your post that you didn't like the burger outlet, but isn't there room to just say, "Boy, did I make a mistake in agreeing to this shop without reading the requirements when I had 3 other shops to do."? That would have evoked empathy from me, because I can relate to it.

Just like ACL, Sentry has some shops that are a better value than others. Most of the ACL dining shops pay no fee at all, but if you really like the outlet, then it may be a good deal for you. I come down on ACL all of the time for not paying a fee with the their shops, but I don't complain about it after taking them. I stick to the fee-based and bonuses shops. The fee problems in the MSC industry are specifically based on shoppers currently accepting shops that have no or poor fees attached, so if you want the assignments to remunerate you well, then you need to decline the ones that do not.

@SteveSoCal wrote:

And as I said before, I don't like the burgers there (for different reasons that you), but my closest friend loves them and since the restaurant was across the street from me, I would go there with him occasionally. If it was a shop for 2 guests, I probably would have taken it.

If I can offer you any advice to be more successful at dining assignments, it's to understand that you don't have to like the food in order to describe it as required. Just like the feedback from the editor said, the reader should not be able to tell if you liked the food or not from your description. You can say that is was difficult to detect any seasoning on the burger. You can say that it was hot, juicy, cold or dry. You can say that the bun was soft and warm, but you can't say that you think it's disgusting to put an egg wash on buns. Well...I'm the one that thinks that. You can say that it had what appeared to be a standard slice of American cheese, but you can't say that great burgers don't include American cheese.

You don't need to praise the food but should not be insulting it either. The person who ultimately fronts the small fee for this shop has based his entire business model on this burger recipe, so I'm pretty sure they just want it to come out hot, fast, fresh and as ordered, and with their existing recipe. In my few experiences at the outlet, they have delivered my burger to me and checked back to be sure that I was happy with it, then asked if I needed anything else and cleared my tray. That's more than one can expect from most fast food places.

@SteveSoCal wrote:

Understood, except there is no specific requirement for tasting the food through your words, as pointed out multiple times in this thread. They specifically stated that they wanted to visualize the food through your words, which would require a different narrative.

If I can paraphrase, you were upset that the MSC required you to modify your report to bring it up to the standards you agreed to before accepting the shop and that were clearly demonstrated, in order to have the shop accepted. That's the joke?

@SteveSoCal wrote:

@Jay C wrote:

Why is she getting beat up over her opinion?

No one is getting beat up for their opinion...unless that opinion is that we should be able to post fallacious information about shops and receive the full support of the community in doing so. There are no word games taking place. The OP has continually insisted that she did not like the reporting requirements for the food, while also giving the impression that she did not fully understand them. I made an attempt to point that out, unsuccessfully.

Here I would absolutely disagree with you Steve. See the various sections in bold of your posts and my comments. It would not be a big deal except you never seem to worry much about "misrepresentation" unless it is with this particular company. It certainly makes one wonder. Oh yes, you will bash anyone who would work for a reimbursement only from ACL that is not in your wheelhouse, but otherwise you are pretty silent when it comes to companies other than Sentry.

I have stated multiple times that I agree the shop is probably not worth the amount of work involved. It is specifically not wonderful. The OP at her own admission was not prepared for the shop, did not download the sample form before attempting the shop, and did not accurately understand the timing requirements for being at the location. The problem was further confounded by her apparently not understanding the requirements for reporting on the food.

This could be any MSC and my reaction would be the same. If this was another MSC, would the rest of you be defending an unprepared shopper? I think your animosity toward Dave colors your view of what is appropriate behavior.

This is precisely my point. You do not state similar reactions to other similar situations with other companies.

I get it that you like hurl insults at Dave, but what has Sentry done in this instance that's inappropriate? Claims were made about the shop requirements and requested revisions that were inaccurate. He simply posted the accurate information.

My personal annoyance with this thread was not Dave or Sentry so much as SteveSoCal being unduly exercised in pointing out that all deficiencies were the shopper's. You do not do this with shoppers on threads about other companies in close to 10,000 words.



I have always thought this forum was a place where newbies could come to learn about the industry, and how to be better shoppers. Isn't advising them to understand shop guidelines before attempting a shop, explaining where they may have been mistaken and pointing out an appropriate way to respond with revisions a good place to start?[/[/b]quote]

It is, Steve, and hopefully it will continue to be a place where newbies can learn about all aspects of the industry, not just to be better shoppers. That is why it is so darn important to be non-judgmental. Your performance in this thread has not had the slightest hint of that as far as I can tell and thus I certainly need to voice the question as to 'why'? Ultimately this is not about aprilredbird, Sentry or Dave.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2015 05:55PM by Flash.

While I don’t partake in every thread, mostly because I just don’t have the time, I am certainly not guilty of questioning only those who post regarding Sentry. The short answer is that I open Sentry threads and respond to them because I know that few others will offer anything but vitriol for Sentry. There is a limited number of companies that I work for and I tend to stick to those discussions.

Recently, I commented that Misanthrope was not being fully objective in his complaint against a hotel client:
[www.mysteryshopforum.com]

I chastised charlhenri for posting a client name and attempted to resolve an issue with NWLP, which ultimately ended up appearing like it was the OP’s fault after Doug presented evidence:
[www.mysteryshopforum.com]

I commented on starcatcher being partially to blame for showing up at the wrong hotel:
[www.mysteryshopforum.com]

I also took Jane Newnum to task for potentially fraudulently utilizing the GRA database:
[www.mysteryshopforum.com]

I try to call things as I see them and while I believe that the majority of problem that shoppers have with MSCs are most likely the fault of the shopper, I am open to defend whomever I feel may be in the right.

I have said this before, but ultimately, it seems like forum members forget that there is a human being on the other end of the complaints against these small MSCs who are trying their hardest to make a living while supplying work for us shoppers. That’s why I tend to get more involved with complaints against Doug or Dave, and am less responsive to problems with the larger MSCs that don’t bother to even defend themselves here. The livelihood of these smaller MSCs depends on their reputation and a significant portion of that comes from people Googling companies and reading the threads from MSF that show up. If an MSC is purposefully defrauding shoppers, I’m happy to call them out publically on it. The only thing that Sentry is guilty of here is having a potentially undesirable assignment, which is an opinion I have fully supported.

The reason I continued to refute aprilbirds’s posts is that instead of reasonably acquiescing to the request for food descriptions that met the standards, she made a point of calling the MSC out for having unreasonable standards while demonstrating repeatedly that she did not fully understand the standards. She was specifically upset that her initial description of the food was not acceptable, then continued to defend her position by disparaging their client, based on a misunderstanding of the shop guidelines and her dislike of the product they offered. My continued response was about aprilbird’s inability to see her lack of objectivity in reporting the shop. In the 8 years I have been posting on this forum, how is that out of character for me in any way?

Mmm, this is making me want a good cheeseburger.

@pinchers81 wrote:

Mmm, this is making me want a good cheeseburger.

Let's all go get a burger. I think we're done here. Flash's post said it all and very well.

Yikes. I replied, left the thread for like a day, then came back to this lo.

Actuallly I like BestMark so not sure where he got that info unless I had some middle of the night half asleep post, I don't dislike Trend Source either I have done a lot of work for them, but their pay scale is low for the amount of work, they keep trying to drop assignments on me last minute with no PADs and they keep insisting they have paid me when I haven't gotten any money at all and I have been shopping for them for 2 months now. I am surprised at the personal attacks and the rushing to defend certain companies. Geesh, maybe I misunderstood the concept of this blog space. I thought it was supposed to be informative so other shoppers can hear what your experiences have been particularly jobs that are a lot of work for not much money, and as a place to be able to blow off some frustrations with other people who understand. As we are all independent contractors it is not like we can go to the break room and talk to another worker about a supervisor who is making their lives difficult. This is our space to make comments. I am not trashing the company just saying I felt the revision for the work was too much work for the money involve, and as someone commented it is just a burger, no gourmet food with low pay attached. I just got an email from COYLe offering up to $80.00 reimbursement and a $30.00 pay. Not that is worth putting a lot of time into! I am feeling like this subject is a dead horse that has been beaten enough so this is my last comment on the subject. Thanks for all the people who have rushed to my defense, I really appreciate the support.

Again did not dislike the product or misunderstand the requirement- Just felt it was too much for the work involved, But I can't waste any more time defending my position, because by now I am really sick of the shop, where before I was mostly just annoyed at the revision request.

OK Steve, I will grant you this and then can we drop it because i never intended to set off such a firebomb- My mistake was agreeing to take on the assignment on the fly, where I couldn't read the form I would ultimately have to fill out. I did read the directions several times in fact, and re read them again just before walking into the shop. I was not unprepared as to my instructions just the final fulfillment of the assignment. Normally I would have downloaded the printed form that i would have to fill out because then I could jot things down that I wanted to not forget between the time I did the shop and when I get home to fill in the form, now admittedly conceding many people insist on doing these forms in color making our expenses even higher for these low paying jobs, but anyway I just figure that that even if I don't like it that is one of the costs of doing this kind of business and I will stick it on my profit loss statement. But anyway as stated earlier I didn't print out the final form this time due to time constraints and as the color ink in my printer is fading and I haven't been able to find a replacement locally and as such am waiting for internet delivery of a new color cartridge I have discovered with another shop's directions that things they wanted to emphasize were bolded in red, but my red has faded to pale yellow and some directions were not decipherable. So basically instead of agreeing to take a shop last minute I should have let it go and I will own that as my mistake. And I did want to do this shop, I was curious about the quality of the food which I have stated repeatedly I had no problem with the food. I am just not sure where you got the idea I didn't like the food. It was fine, nothing wrong with it other than me putting too many condiments on it but as I have said earlier that is my mistake not there. I loved the scheduler who assigned the shop to me. But my last comment on this is that while I certainly appreciate that the MSC's need to be profitable, so do I. This is currently how I am making my living. There are 2 kinds of shoppers, one who just do this for what they perceive to be a "free" item, and it is easy to get sucked into that idea, I even mistakenly called it free. But lets face it there is nothing free about many of these meals, and as you pointed out ACL doesn't even add any fees and they want a lot of narrative, but at least their meals are fine dining and for many of us seeing our incomes reduced every year we might not be able to afford going to these finer restaurants very often. But as a free agent who is doing this for money, I can't get sucked into doing really long narratives for small compensation because as the old saying goes time is money, and in order to make a living out of Mystery shopping you have to do a lot of them so you have to be careful about what you are getting involved in... However I look at it as it is all a learning experience. I have really appreciated the comments other shoppers have made on what they deem as unreasonable amounts of work for the money offered and just thought I would do the same. And finally the biggest point I feel I need to make is this--- All over America, American workers are working harder for less money while the people at the top are doing less for more money, and I think most Americans can agree with me that there is something very wrong with this picture. But I guess there will always be apologists for the corporations like yourself that seem to think that is okay.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2015 08:45PM by aprilredbird.

As I said before, just give it a rest, SteveSoCal. I fully agree with Flash.

Anyone who goes to all length to discredit a poster, like you have done in this thread, really gives a bad taste in my mouth. You have gone too personal and too judgmental. I feel this does not bode well for the veteran posters. I am surprised I followed this thread because I usually take a break from the Forum when I see similar action as yours. Diplomacy won't work. Maybe a break from the Forum will do for posters who enjoy this type of...can't say it. Would not want to hurt your feelings.

Does the fact that OP misquoted the editor and misstated guidelines matter?

@risinghorizon wrote:

As I said before, just give it a rest, SteveSoCal. I fully agree with Flash.

Anyone who goes to all length to discredit a poster, like you have done in this thread, really gives a bad taste in my mouth. You have gone too personal and too judgmental. I feel this does not bode well for the veteran posters. I am surprised I followed this thread because I usually take a break from the Forum when I see similar action as yours. Diplomacy won't work. Maybe a break from the Forum will do for posters who enjoy this type of...can't say it. Would not want to hurt your feelings.

@aprilredbird wrote:

Geesh, maybe I misunderstood the concept of this blog space. I thought it was supposed to be informative so other shoppers can hear what your experiences have been particularly jobs that are a lot of work for not much money, and as a place to be able to blow off some frustrations with other people who understand. As we are all independent contractors it is not like we can go to the break room and talk to another worker about a supervisor who is making their lives difficult. This is our space to make comments. I am not trashing the company just saying I felt the revision for the work was too much work for the money involve, and as someone commented it is just a burger, no gourmet food with low pay attached. Thanks for all the people who have rushed to my defense, I really appreciate the support.

You did not misunderstand, aprilredbird, and your post was definitely not a trashing. I'm proud of you for not allowing your posts to become defensive and doubly proud of you for not backing away from the forum because of the bashing and the attempts to discredit the comments you made, which were reasonably stated.

If this bashing is explained by "it seems like forum members forget that there is a human being on the other end of the complaints against these small MSCs who are trying their hardest to make a living while supplying work for us shoppers," then I think the writer forgot he was on a shopper forum and that the newbie shopper who made the comments is also a human being who made reasonable comments. I hope he will rethink his behavior. If the point is to make a small MSC look good, this fails badly.

@Sentry Marketing wrote:

Does the fact that OP misquoted the editor and misstated guidelines matter?

Not really. At this point, the jist of the whole thing is not the details of the story a newbie told about a shop she thought was awful, it's the behavior of a veteran shopper who went wild to discredit a poster who didn't even post anything horrible. She didn't call you names and didn't trash your company, she just shared her experience and her opinion. The bashing she got makes our forum look like crap. It makes Sentry Marketing look like crap.

The best thing that could happen for Sentry is to not get any more defense like the one in this thread.

wow - what a fray! Just one note: you can tell your printer to print in "grayscale." I do it all the time because I don't want to use my color ink. You just have to go into properties and click the box! Just takes a few seconds!

@Jay C

Well put! Am I allowed to like your post more than once?