I was not aware that I had to fill 2 bottles with fresh urine as part of a drug testing shop. I was able to produce what I though was sufficient urine for testing as per the instructions but the person I was shopping failed to tell me that they required 2 vials filled. The urine I provided was disposed of and I reported this on the input. I received a rejection notice from the MS company for failing to complete the urine test. It would have been nice had I been told by either the MS instructions or the tech being shopped that 2 vials of urine were required. I wasted my time and I am not happy about this. All of this should have been spelled out to me prior to accepting this shop or by the tech being shopped.
I sent a letter to this MS protesting this decision to reject and not pay me for the shop.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2015 10:35PM by SS4U.

Usually a full test cup will fill a couple of vials. They told me at one lab that they have been known to keep people there up to 6 hours if one's faucet doesn't work.

Perhaps you should go to the management of the drug testing company and raise the issue. You should at least get your money back. Perhaps they can void the results and give you another chance to do it.

My point is that this should have been explained to me as a shopper by both the MS as well as the tech performing the test. At no time was I told that I needed to produce enough fresh urine to fill 2 vials in order for the test to be performed and validated. I cannot order up one cup of urine on demand and should not have been expected to spend the afternoon at this facility. I was entitled to know this prior to performing this shop so I could have been prepared by drinking a LOT of fluids before entering. That is my point. I was not informed and now the shop is rejected and I do not get paid. This is wrong.

I have done a similar drug test shop before, and I was NOT warned about the volume requirement. Even the tech forgot and threw the other vial away then dug it out of the trash. I was barely able to produce enough for both vials. I completely agree with you that this needs to be made clear to the shopper in the instructions.

I contacted the MS and got a reply basically saying that I misunderstood their instructions, and I replied that their shop instructions stated that vials must be filled with urine. A vial is defined as a container, and that could be a one oz or 100 oz+, and further, that the MS should have clearly stated in their instructions that at least 8 oz of fresh urine would be required, and this was not in the shop instructions. The MS replied that it means a specimen container, to which I replied that this still defines a container and not the amount of fluid I was expected to produce to comply with shop instructions. I complied and my shop was rejected meaning i will not be paid. The MS then suggested that I should have somehow known how these shops work and what exactly would be required, even if it's not spelled out, and I answered that I go strictly by the shop instructions and that was what I had done. I have never had a drug test so how would I know in advance that 8 oz of urine was needed. This should have been in the MS shop instructions and it was not.

I had 2 other shops scheduled with this same MS and I asked for them to be cancelled following this dispute. I simply cannot afford to have my shops rejected because of their vague instructions. All of this should have been spelled out in their instructions.
A vial-jar-container is exactly that: a container
A fluid amount is a fluid amt. 8 oz was apparently needed but this was not mentioned in the shop instructions, nor by the tech. I should have been paid regardless.
I have a shop rating of 9-10 with the other MS companies I shop for, so I will set up other shops for those time slots I had scheduled with this MS company.

Several years ago, I did a blood-draw shop for what I suspect is the same MSC. A requirement was to get the name of the receptionist from the name sign on the table or their name tag, or as a last resort, to ask them. No sign, no name tag, and the receptionist refused to tell me, and the shop was rejected. I will never do another lab testing shop for them. IMHO, the testing company was responsible for enforcing the requirement about name tags, etc. and should have wanted to know about the behavior of that employee. I literally gave my blood for that shop, to no avail. The MSC would not budge on the requirement to have a name - the fact that there were only two employees present - the phlebotomist and the receptionist and I could describe the receptionist and the lab company could presumably access time sheets was not enough.

This is my point exactly. If the target is not cooperating with the shop, this is not your fault but rather something the client should know about regardless. I was not told by either the target nor the MS company that I needed to produce 8 OZ of urine but only that I needed to fill 2 vials of a non specific size, which I though I had provided. This is the fault of the MS company for failing to be specific and presuming I would know how this works, as was told to me in an email from the MS company earlier today.

I go by the shop guidelines/instructions and presume nothing. If there are questions, I contact the scheduler before proceeding.

I have had occasions where I have performed shops and the target was either absent or did not perform their job during the course of my shopping them, and I was paid by the MS company in all cases. When a shop is rejected due to no fault of the shopper, they still should be paid.
I will write the company and appeal this but until it's remedied, I will not shop for them.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2015 05:01PM by SS4U.

Unfortunately there are some companies out there who will go the extra mile to shaft the shopper out of the fees but use the report anyway. There are those who also subract from the fee for every nit-picking thing they can find and end up getting a report for maybe 13 cents.

I was contracted by the MS company to shop this facility. I did not pay anything upfront but rather lost the fee for this shop.

is this msc Second To None? I've been tempted to do these but now I'm not so sure. 8 ounces seems like a lot of urine. I've been drug-tested for my job and I bet they only asked for half that amount.

Not sure if the rules allow for the MS company to be named but I will not deny that this is in fact the MS company.

I was not told beforehand by either the MS company nor the tech that I needed to fill up an 8 oz cup with fresh urine in order to complete this shop. Had I known prior to the test, I would not have peed B4 I arrived and I would have consumed plenty of fluids prior to voiding. Both the MS Co. & the tech I was shopping failed to inform me of this fact.

Yup, sounds like Second to None without a doubt.
I too, had my urine shop rejected. Made it abundantly clear in the report that the staff person had no name tag.
Shop was rejected anyway with no pay for me...won't shop for them again, no way. This msc is slippery...

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2015 05:16PM by Arch Stanton.

Sorry you got burned; so did I. I am hoping other shoppers don't get burned here.

There are very good reputable MS companies that I am enjoying a good working relationship with, and I have been told that I am an excellent shopper, one of their best. My ratings are 9-10. I will not work for a company that plays games or looks for excuses to reject a shop, not when there are so many good MS firms out there.

It's safe to say I've never seen a thread where the word urine was used as much as this one. I'm also curious if you have previously measured your "output" so you could have ensured 8 oz. if only you had known.

Ok, who measures their output just for fun? Please tell.

When I first read this thread yesterday, I wondered if the OP was protesting too much. Then, when I saw that 8 ounces were required, I thought the OP was justified in complaining about the MSC.

A standard urine specimen cup in the U.S. is usually 3 oz. to 4 oz. (I should know. I have medical issues and have had to provide urine samples frequently, for years.) I've never had to provide a urine sample for a drug test, though, and would have no idea (without doing research or instructions from the MSC or technician) that I would have to provide 8 oz of urine. Except for when I had to collect and provide all my urine from a 24-hour period, I have never been required to fill more than one standard urine specimen cup. As a matter of fact, just 2 oz. of a urine sample is usually enough for most urine tests.

Given the normal range of bladder capacity in an adult human, 8 oz. of urine at one sitting is a lot. (For a normal, healthy adult, the lower end of the range is about 10 oz.)

The only thing that raised my eyebrows was when the OP wrote: "I would not have peed B4 I arrived and I would have consumed plenty of fluids prior to voiding." IMO, this was something a reasonable adult who knew they were about to have to provide a urine sample would know to do, even without knowing 8 ounces of urine would be required.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2015 09:02PM by gotshops.

I have taken drug tests before for work opportunities. I have never needed to produce more than a regular specimen cup.

So, they pissed you off, basically.

Better to be pissed off than pissed on.

To a number of MS companies, they are the dogs and we are the fire hydrants.

I decided to see how much urine is actually required for a drug test.
1) The US Department of Transportation requires a 45 ml (1-1/2 ounce) sample: [www.transportation.gov]
2) Most labs in the UK require 45 ml (1-1/2 ounces): [www.urine-luck.co.uk]
3) One of the two largest clinical testing company in the US requires 30 ml of uring (1 ounce) except for DOT testing: [www.questdiagnostics.com]
4) The other of the two largest requires 45 ml (1-1/2 ounce): [www.labcorp.com]

As someone stated earlier, the average adult bladder holds 300 to 400 ml (10 to 13 ounces). [www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

"In the elderly, the capacity may decrease to 250 - 300 cc. Approximately 150-250 cc may be stored (less in the elderly) before there is a sensation of bladder pressure. As the bladder fills beyond 150-250 mL the individual begins toilet seeking." [www.rnceus.com]

Based upon that last reference (and I found other references saying the same thing), to expect to collect at least 240 ml of urine for a valid drug test is simply ridiculous.

Something is really, really wrong if a testing company requires 10 ounces (240 ml) of urine.

Second to None rejected my drug test shop for a ridiculous reason, too. The staff at the test facility made tons of mistakes including letting me take my coat into the bathroom, spilling urine on the carpet without cleaning it up, and having me sign all the blanks on the form at the beginning. This MSC had been on my do not shop list ever since.

@Cettie wrote:

Usually a full test cup will fill a couple of vials. They told me at one lab that they have been known to keep people there up to 6 hours if one's faucet doesn't work.

I went almost 9 once. Was very badly dehydrated and probably should have been given IV fluids. Not a mystery shop, though....just standard-issue lousy American healthcare practice.

I was told by the tech person the a cup of urine was required, and 8 oz. is one cup. She handed me an 8 oz vessel (cup) with instructions to fill it up, which I could not.

@Squarestate wrote:

Second to None rejected my drug test shop for a ridiculous reason, too. The staff at the test facility made tons of mistakes including letting me take my coat into the bathroom, spilling urine on the carpet without cleaning it up, and having me sign all the blanks on the form at the beginning. This MSC had been on my do not shop list ever since.

and they are about to go on mine, as well. there were several no-no's I witnessed and that I put into the " rejected " report that I did for free.