Hi everyone, I did motel shops for Freeman Group, Nov 1 AND Dec 1, 2009. They are supposed to reimburse for the room, plus pay $20.00. I have STILL not received ANY payment! There was a $10 bonus on the Dec shop, so they actually owe me $86 and $96 for the shops I performed what has become four and five months ago. They say they pay in 12 weeks. I've written 4 times requesting payment. They keep responding that they are sending out a large number of payments within the next two weeks. Same answer the next time I wrote, and still no payment.
I've asked for an address or phone number of someone else in their company that I can contact. No response. IS ANYONE ELSE HAVING THIS PROBLEM? HAS ANYONE ELSE BEEN PAID BY THE FREEMAN GROUP? Please reply, I am really wondering if I will ever be paid. Also, any suggestions as to what I should do? Thanks so much for any help you can give! -Rhonda

Rhonda, it is an ongoing problem. Hopefully they will get it sorted out some day, but for now payments are taking too long a time. I am a squeaky wheel and did get paid 3/19 for a shop done in the first half of November. But if you use the "Search" feature on this or any other forum you will find that the problems with payment from Freeman have been going on for a long time. They do eventually pay, but it is not without effort on the shopper's part and it certainly is not per contract (my payment for November was supposed to be in 8 weeks ended up being a little more than 4 months).

Hey, thank you for the feedback. I am relieved to hear that they do actually pay at some point. I find it appalling that it has been FIVE MONTHS since I did that first shop for them, and not a penny yet. They have been giving me their canned answer for the last four weeks, that they are "sending out a large number of paymenmts within the next two weeks..."

I don't care how large the number is, I want the two payments they owe me. I won't work for them again.

Ammazing, that sounds like the same email I got a week ago. Did 2 shops in dec and jan and got an email I thought well I will be getting paid in 2 weeks. There goes that dream. I heard that they pay it just takes a little while to get paid.

Thank you also. I say we boycott them! Seriously though, a company must be very poorly managed if they cannot pay their debts any more efficiently than this!

Canned message waiting for paynebt since 11/06/09.
Contacting BBS.

I did a shop for them on 1/23/10 and have not received payment yet.

I believe they were already talking about 12 weeks by then, so some time about the end of April begin bugging them for payment. If your email about the job still said 8 weeks, start bugging them about now. When the payment is later than the agreed time frame they generally send you an additional $5 with the payment.

But twelve weeks is roughly 3 months. Nov thru March is five months and that's how long its beenince i did the first shop and four months
since the second. n Now they don't even bother to acknowledge ny messages.

ggumbaroni@yahoo.com Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But twelve weeks is roughly 3 months. Nov thru
> March is five months and that's how long its
> beenince i did the first shop and four months
> since the second. n Now they don't even bother to
> acknowledge ny messages.


I think Flash was probably replying to Dana on that one.

I wonder if someone from Freeman would like to come on here and explain the situation like the person from NSS did??? I really like the Freeman shops and have taken the leap of faith, as we wanted to go to the towns we went to anyway, but wouldn't be doing them otherwise. If they pay, we got our hotel paid for us...if not, we were willing to pay for these particular nights anyway. We love to travel to just get out of town sometimes and would gladly do others when we don't have a reason to...if they pay as promised.

Thanks for writing. The responses I've gotten from those who have actually been paid said that they do pay but they take forever, and when you get the check there is an extra $5 included to compensate for the delay. My situation is that I did one shop the first of november and one the first of December. I am out not only the compensation and bonus, but the two nights i paid to stay in the motels. I was not traveling. i went to a nearby town and just stayed the night(s) because they needed help getting these shops done. I act in good faith and assume others will also. The Freeman Group sent a "canned" message in reply to one of my inquiries, and sent the exact same message again a couple of weeks later. The other half dozen requests for payment received no reply at all. I've asked repeatedly for a name, email address, phone number, anything - for someone else I could contact and got no response.

A kind shopper sent me a private email with some suggestions on how to proceed. I appreciated that very much. Personally, I will never work for them again because I feel that they are just blowing me off. I hold an MBA so have done lots of case studies on businesses that do - and some that don't - operate ethically. Freeman obviously does not, and I don't believe in rewarding that kind of business. If I were traveling anyway, like you are, then it would make sense to do their shops. You would be spending the money anyway, and this way there is a hope of some day getting that check!

My reaction is not to burn any bridges that you don't have to. I really did enjoy working with them a few years ago because it did offer some very interesting opportunities. So I will admit readily to being prejudiced in their favor. This payment mess is scary. From everything I have seen, it is the same cast of characters at Freeman trying to deal with the current situation who were helpful and straightforward back when cash flow did allow folks to get paid in a more reasonable period of time (they were never jackrabbit fast, but it was more reasonable). I frankly hope it all gets sorted out as the economy improves--if not before--because I would enjoy returning to a mutually good working relationship.

I won't call them crooks since at least they do admit there is a problem (unlike some other MSC's hiding from shoppers, and some that have going out of business), however, after resubmitting the same crap several times ('We don't have it,') and it taking 9 months to FINALLY get paid (by contacting Freeman himself) I would never, ever, ever shop for them again. While they may have been great in the past, my sole experience was horrid, and I would not trust them, myself. I would be waiting for them to stop paying again. Days after I finally got paid, I got a notice for the same shop. I sent them an email asking if they were kidding. I stated I wished to be deactivated. I don't see myself regretting that decision now or in the future, even if they got the Halekulani hotel and expensed it up front. Once burned is far too burned for me.

What problem have they admitted to? That they are broke and have no home of catching up? That they are crooks and will never pay up unless the sheriff comes to the door? That they are rich and will take advantage of any fool who does our shops? That they do not get paid until all contracted units have been done and this can be slow because some are in the boondocks where no one wants to do them? All I heard is to expect at least 8 weeks to get paid and they will add five bucks to your check if it takes longer, which is what happened to me with my shop in August, that was paid in January. What's the real problem?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2010 02:24PM by northtexas.

A few years ago I got a call NOT to do a scheduled shop because the client was more than 90 days in arrears on their payment. This was at a time when fees and payments were to be made in 30 days to shoppers. Realization that without payment the shops would not proceed was enough to get the client to pay up and within a few weeks we proceeded with the shop. Someone had dropped the ball in Freeman's Accounts Receivable, evidently, that the shop had been scheduled in the first place without client payment yet for previous visits.

When there were global emails more than a year ago about slow payments, they focused on slow client payment being the cause of slow shopper payment. I do trust that that is and continues to be the problem, as opposed to any intent or desire to defraud. I have no inside information on this, but it is my gut feeling from having dealt with these folks over time. YMMV.

Any company in this economy has limited choices. 1) They can cut off any client who is not paying as per contract (just as many shoppers are choosing to do with Freeman); 2) They can continue doing shops and leaning on clients to pay in a timely fashion (which will drive away clients who are on financially difficult times); 3) They can continue doing shops and hope that their creditors (shoppers) will be patient with their slow payments. It would appear to me that Freeman and many other companies are doing a combination of all of the above. According to a Freeman email a while back, they had done cost cutting at their company so that their cash flow would be less impacted by their operating expenses. I suspect many other companies have done the same. I certainly have done the same in my personal household.

There comes a time, however, when you can not cut any further and continue to exist. And there is a big difference between $10 shops and $200 shops. If you get in a client payment for $1000 you can pay for a whole lot more $10 shops than you can $200 shops. And if you put out your $10 shops at $9 you can pay for still more of them out of that $1000. Shoppers of a $10 shop are annoyed when 30 day payment turns out to be 45, but the pain and anger is a lot less than for a $200 shop with the same delay.

My personal feeling is that Freeman will, eventually, get everyone paid. My personal question is whether I am willing to be out the money that long. My personal answer is that I will continue to work with them on a shop by shop basis--do one and when paid, do the next one. They may fail, they may survive, but as a worst case scenario I won't be out more than one shop. There is a long enough history of their struggle with payments on forums that shoppers should be aware that payments are slow and definitely "at risk" so they can make their own decision about whether it is worth it to them.

It just boils down to a poor business plan, I think.

I can understand companies that pay at 90 days are usually relying on payment from the clients to cover expenses involved with the shops, since most invoices are due within 90 days. That in itself is bad business because the company appears under-capitalized for the business venture they are involved in, however. Once payments go over 90 days, I highly suspect there is a bit of robbing Peter the shopper to pay Paul the shopper. Flash's story illuminates the fact the Freeman does not want to do business with a client that pays after 90 days, so it stands to reason that they are getting paid at about 90 days, and still can't pay their depts.

This has been going on for so long, there are only a few ways it can play out if that is the case:

A-Freeman takes on more clients to create the profit required to pay off evaluators, essentially creating a Ponzi scheme. Eventually shoppers will be hung out to dry.

B-Freeman looses client due to inability to fulfill the contract (no willing shoppers) and many shoppers are left footing the bill.

Consider the number of shops this MSC does, and the average expense of each one, and realize this is a significant amount that the shoppers are footing the bill for. With payments being close 6 months late, it's essentially 50% of their annual revenue they are behind on!

Even if they shuttered the offices, moved to a 'home based' business, cut fees in half and started offering folio reversal on the hotels, how long would it take to pay that many shoppers current?

Remember that the profit involved in hotel and dining shops in minimal. A large percentage of the "earnings" that they are expecting at are actually just evaluator reimbursements that they are covering their operating expenses with. To me, that teeters on being criminal activity, so it's fair in my book to call them crooks. I will happily pour lighter fluid on, light a match and burn that bridge down!

Not that it will stop many of the 'hotel hungry' shoppers out there from making a mistake, but the SS Freeman has set sail and there are reports of icebergs in them waters, so shop at your own peril.

SteveSoCal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Not that it will stop many of the 'hotel hungry'
> shoppers out there from making a mistake, but the
> SS Freeman has set sail and there are reports of
> icebergs in them waters, so shop at your own
> peril.

I am SO glad that I bailed from that ship last January. :-) While it chugs away toward the berg, shoppers should also have an idea of the lifestyle Freeman himself is enjoying while using YOUR money as an interest-free loan:
[twitter.com]
Are YOU enjoying 5 star hotels for free? No? Or are you just trying to pay bills and feed the kids? Something to ponder while you sit waiting and waiting and waiting for the reimbursements the firm will owe you.

Note that he lost weight in March, at least according to what he wrote. Must be that "belt-tightening." LOL.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2010 09:12PM by dee shops.

northtexas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What problem have they admitted to?

That they cannot pay shoppers but are trying to. In my book, as completely wrong as it is to treat shoppers that way, it is preferable to the ones like DSS, JCA, or Restaurant Evaluators, who really do steal from shoppers by totally ignoring the issues and then acting like there is nothing wrong. There's a whopper of a controversy on Violation right now with DSS, and due to having heard the check is in the mail story last summer when a friend was out a huge reimbursement, I'm voting the check was never mailed this time, either.

Yea, Bill Freeman's Twitter account is something else. Nice that he can afford Sinagpore Airlines' First Class.

MickeyB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yea, Bill Freeman's Twitter account is something
> else. Nice that he can afford Sinagpore Airlines'
> First Class.


Yea, I know. On our dimes, yet. :-(

Note to Freeman...It's probably best *not* to tweet your high-flying lifestyle while not paying shoppers in any semblance of a timely manner.

I am on hold with Freeman right now. If anyone wants their corporate office info it is as follows:

Contact FreemanGroup
Corporate Headquarters
3501 Token Drive, Suite 100
Richardson, TX 75082
UNITED STATES
tel (972) 479-1345
fax (972) 479-1366

The person I am on hold speaking with is very civil, lets see how long that lasts.

Darlene from Freeman said that they are in the process of cleaning everything up and are paying weekly. She pulled up my info and recited it back to me, then apologized and said she would re-send everything to accounting. Don't know if it will work. I can only hope....

Flash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> When there were global emails more than a year ago
> about slow payments, they focused on slow client
> payment being the cause of slow shopper payment.
> I do trust that that is and continues to be the
> problem, as opposed to any intent or desire to
> defraud. I have no inside information on this,
> but it is my gut feeling from having dealt with
> these folks over time. YMMV.
>

When Bill Freeman corresponded with me last year after I contacted him directly, he stated in his email that he, himself, had made some bad business decisions and that he owned that, and that the business was feeling the result of those. What were those? I don't know, as he did not say. But in my opinion, it is more than late payment by clients. Continuing to take on new shops and consulting business for clients already in arrears? Continuing on his first class world traveling while the business sinks slowly? Not paying enough personal attention to the firm that has his name? I don't know. But if I were to guess, my vote is that it is all three combined.

For me, the risk after one shop left unpaid for far too long was enough for me to not ever go there again, even IF and when they pay shoppers in 30 days...for however long that might last. I would always expect the other shoe to drop, and behaviors of the last year and more tell me to stay far away. I did my shop in mid-April of 2008, and was not reimbursed until late January of
2009. It's now 15 months past when I was reimbursed. Nothing has changed. Nothing.

Shopper peers, what if you need a motel and have to go anyway? Sure, do the shop if you are so inclined...You probably won't be out any more than your time (which is money...), because you needed a place to stay, anyway, that you would have to pay for. I won't do so. Even if going strictly as a profit making venture, I could not be paid enough to be put through this particular ringer again.

The last thing he said in his email, 15 months ago now, is that he hoped to make me a raving fan by the next few months. I guess his hope did not come to pass. Note that he 'tweeted', "Managers.. #3.. Commitment to service means nothing by itself. Involvement in the process of training and measuring service means everything." I guess that only applies to his *clients*, not to his role in the firm that bears his name. I sure am not and have not been seeing that "service" to his ICA's.

I will never be a fan.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2010 09:15AM by dee shops.

fiteybitey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Darlene from Freeman said that they are in the
> process of cleaning everything up and are paying
> weekly. She pulled up my info and recited it back
> to me, then apologized and said she would re-send
> everything to accounting. Don't know if it will
> work. I can only hope....

Fitey,
You need to talk to or email Bill Freeman himself. His people are still feeding the same stuff they have been feeding since at least June of 2008. If you don't get to the top of the pain chain, you will wait like so many other shoppers, while he travels 5-star establishments across the globe.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2010 09:13AM by dee shops.

SteveSoCal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> This has been going on for so long, there are only
> a few ways it can play out if that is the case:
>
> A-Freeman takes on more clients to create the
> profit required to pay off evaluators, essentially
> creating a Ponzi scheme. Eventually shoppers will
> be hung out to dry.
>


I guess we think alike, Steve. I used the words "Ponzi Scheme" in my personal email to Freeman. It certainly hurt his feelings, but it got his attention. I got paid within two hours of contacting him. In effect, that is exactly what has been going on with this MSC for the past 2 years.

I can understand the offense with calling it a 'Ponzi scheme'. It implies that he is intentionally defrauding shoppers.

I guess that's the big question; Is Bill intentionally allowing shoppers to financially prop his business up at rates far below the interest he would have to pay on a loan to reimburse them, or is he blissfully unaware that underpaid shoppers are being financially burdened by his irresponsible behavior while he's jet-setting around the world?

Either way, it offensive and shameful. This debacle is turning his name from one that used to be associated with quality customer service to one that implies a company under financial duress.

I listened to the podcast interview with Bill posted on his twitter page and found it interesting that he and the interviewer with chastising the new school of hospitality management for being too focused on the financial/business aspects of the job. Very telling.

Dee Shops wrote
>
> Fitey,
> You need to talk to or email Bill Freeman himself.
> His people are still feeding the same stuff they
> have been feeding since at least June of 2008. If
> you don't get to the top of the pain chain, you
> will wait like so many other shoppers, while he
> travels 5-star establishments across the globe.


Dee, right now I feel I lucky to have spoken to someone in Corportate who could recite my information right down to the date, place and amount owed. Ususally I am stuck with canned messages or rude people. I would love to contact Bill directly, but haven't come across his direct line or email yet. I am new to twitter so I don't know how to use that to contact him and I don't really want everything out there for all to see. If you know how to contact him I would really appreaciate it. If not, I will continue on my quest. By the way, the woman I spoke with was so meek and apologetic I would have felt sorry for her if I weren't owed the money. She said there have been a lot of calls and emails. She sounded very tired. I would not want her job.

fiteybitey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dee Shops wrote
> >
> > Fitey,
> > You need to talk to or email Bill Freeman
> himself.
> > His people are still feeding the same stuff
> they
> > have been feeding since at least June of 2008.
> If
> > you don't get to the top of the pain chain, you
> > will wait like so many other shoppers, while he
> > travels 5-star establishments across the globe.
>
>
> Dee, right now I feel I lucky to have spoken to
> someone in Corportate who could recite my
> information right down to the date, place and
> amount owed. Ususally I am stuck with canned
> messages or rude people. I would love to contact
> Bill directly, but haven't come across his direct
> line or email yet. I am new to twitter so I don't
> know how to use that to contact him and I don't
> really want everything out there for all to see.
> If you know how to contact him I would really
> appreaciate it. If not, I will continue on my
> quest. By the way, the woman I spoke with was so
> meek and apologetic I would have felt sorry for
> her if I weren't owed the money. She said there
> have been a lot of calls and emails. She sounded
> very tired. I would not want her job.


I'm sure she is tired. VERY very tired. The information is there on the website. You can get to him directly, Fitey. I did, using that manner of doing so.

> > Dee Shops wrote

>
>
> I'm sure she is tired. VERY very tired. The
> information is there on the website. You can get
> to him directly, Fitey. I did, using that manner
> of doing so.


I have all the pertinent information and am taking care of business. Thank you for your advice and concerns. I will give an update as soon as I know anything different.