Bah...

I will not hesitate to state: "I am a totally illogical creature!"

Because I just can NOT "get" that test. Period.

Look - 20 years ago in College Algebra, I was absolutely ACING the class - UNTIL the professor tried to tell me that "X = Y".

Forget it. For years I was told "X does NOT = Y" and now you are telling me it does? Um, no, it doesn't. I did EVERY SINGLE PROBLEM in our college algebra book, but I just could NOT figure it out. Twice I tried passing college algebra and I was fine up until mid-semester when we got to the "x=y" section of functions, and my mind rebelled. I took 3 years of Honors Composition! Heck, as a freshman I was helping the Professor grade classmates writing! I know how to write and follow directions - but I am SO NOT A LOGICAL CREATURE!

I canNOT pass that X-O test, and you only get TWO chances? Ha ha ha!

*slinks off after vent to find "remove-me-link" from Sinclair...*

I shop for Sinclair and am not familiar with the X-o test. Can you let me know what it is (either here or PM). Meanwhile, in another life, I am a tutor. Love teaching algebra!

I have no idea if this company has any shops near me but golf is cancelled due to rain so I decided to give it a shot and got it on the first try. I don't know if you get another chance but it helps once you fill in your answer to rephrase the logical requirement as a question but always in the positive.

For example, if the logical requirement was:

Billy does not precede Bob

you may answer:

Bob | Billy

So now focus on your answer and ask yourself the question, "Does Billy precede Bob?" (Remember, it helps to answer the question in the positive, leave out the 'does not' if there is one) In your written answer Bob precedes Billy, so the answer is no, therefore Billy does not precede Bob. That matches the logical requirement, on to the next one.

Just did that one yesterday. I didn't see where it had anything to do with math, tho. Seemed to be more abt following instructions. It was pretty lengthy, and after awhile all those Xs and Os got a little tedious.

Yeah it's zero math, all logic.

Hey but thanks OP for the post, looks like Sinclair has a fair amount of shops in my area. Nothing available now but at least there's potential.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2011 12:40PM by raisitup.

jersey07032 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I shop for Sinclair and am not familiar with the
> X-o test. Can you let me know what it is (either
> here or PM). Meanwhile, in another life, I am a
> tutor. Love teaching algebra!

Hi Jersey - it is a test that you have to pass (you are only given two chances) in order to become a shopper for Sinclair.

The really sad thing is - I LOVE Math, particularly accounting (dollar signs *laugh*)! My youngest son is a Math major - the kid NEVER bought a book in college, even for Calculus, and still got A's & B's. (actually, retract that, I think he said he bought the book for Statistics). He is student teaching right now and wants to teach Advanced Placement Math.

I sent you a PM!

KH

I sent you a PM. I can't give you the answers--that wouldn't be honest. But I suggested ones you should reconsider. Is that honest? Probably not, but you don't need to be logical to do a MS.I am not concerned that you are going to screw up corporate America because you didn't get your Xs and your Os in the right order.:-)

I do a lot of shops for Sinclair and actually love working for them. I know I did not take a test like this.

True, true, it does not involve Math per se - it involves LOGIC. Isn't logic one of the basics of Math?

Like I first said, I am NOT a logical creature. I even tried changing out the X and O for names and colors. Still doesn't make sense to me. *laughing*. I have no problem what-so-ever following guidelines set forth by any of my current MSC's; or taking and passing with flying colors any of the other quizzes and such for shop jobs.

But this one? Aye, Aye, Aye, I'm seeing X's and O's in really scary nightmares!

KH

I only vaguely remember that test and it seems to me that a lot of it was pattern recognition, so if you had

XOOXOOXOOX

the next in the sequence would be O because two Os come after each X

or with

XOXOOXOOO

the next would be X because you have 1 then 2 then 3 Os between Xs.

My reaction is that you don't fly through the test, you take your time and put your 'test anxiety' in the closet.

Overall I do appreciate the effort of companies to try to do some screening of shoppers. I recognize there are no really good tools out there to do it, but it is always unfortunate when a shopper gets a shop rejected because they really had little understanding of what was wanted. Simply going by educational level acquired is not foolproof either--I know some very bright and competent GED folks and some very impractical-in-daily-living PhDs. Certainly Xs and Os or Billy before Bob or word math problems aren't the answer either. If you only went by number of shops successfully performed you would never get new shoppers. What do you suppose a fair screener was that would enable shoppers without putting those for whom complex written instructions are a challenge into untenable positions?

Alas, those who tried to teach me math in college no doubt went home muttering to themselves and examined the fine print on their diplomas. Now if you want me to write a 30 page dissertation about the psycho-social implications of those who excel at math and then diagram every sentence, THAT I can do.

I remember when I first signed up with Sinclair, I could not pass that XOXO test, and I had to wait a month to take the test again. I was even getting a headache trying to figure out why I kept missing those X and Os. But then I received an email the next day stating that I was accepted as a shopper, and I did not have to take that test. And I have been shopping with Sinclair ever since, and I just love this company.

Yes, Sinclair is one of the good ones. Very easy and fair to deal with. I can always get someone on the phone during business hours and if something happens during non-business hours, and I miss something, they are cool about it. They pay on time, although not extremely well, and they don't ask me to jump through hoops.

And remember EVERY time you take it they change up the order.

I'm like Cettie--a word person and never was or ever could be a numbers person. But I don't even remember the Sinclair test and must have passed it okay since I'm getting their e-mails and gladly accepting their shops.

I do many shops for Sinclair and I remember doing the xoxoxox test. I got it correct on the first try, my reasoning was: It has nothing to do with math, but rather how you sequence things.

I shop for Sinclair, but I really don't remember the test. If there was one I must have passed it as I have shopoed for them over ayear now.

Looks like Sinclair sized up the performance of their shoppers and decided a logic test was needed for any new candidates :-) JKJKJKJKJK

It has been around for a long time. Their test and the ACL have given shoppers fits for years. Secret Shopper used to have a front end 'training' before you finished registration if I recall correctly. The problem with the training was that you would finish the quiz after training and the system would simply return to the front end of the training. It took several different browsers to find one old enough to work with the system. I haven't heard complaints about that so assume they got it squared away.

Hello has anyone taken this recently? I can't seem to pass it and I have to wait 30 days to re-take it. Hmmmm thought I did really good on it.

There was a recent thread on this exact subject, the search function is your friend. Many people including myself have had problems with that, I gave up on it and eventually got a call from Sinclair because they needed a shoopper in my area and allowed me to bypass the test.

I didn't think it was too bad. I've always liked logic problems / mathematical theory. Arithmetic was what kept me away from more math-oriented fields.

I just triple checked each answer and read them aloud to someone else to verify my answers.

and all of this for a few lousy bucks. we're all nutz.

They are skating on thin ice. For a company to use a test as a requirement for employment they have to show (and proof is tricky) that it is an accurate predictor of employee performance. And the test itself has to be shown to be culturally neutral and fair. IBM used to use a test to pre-screen applicants to see if they could be programmers. It was a logic test, of sorts, and they called it the Programmer Aptitude Test. They had to drop it because of complaints (I think some law suits) from people who didn't do well on the test and didn't get jobs with them but turned out to be great programmers for someone else.
Does one have to be able to recognize patterns to be a shopper? I doubt it. Does the test actually test this ability reliably? Who knows? etc.
Having been the training and education director of a quasi-federal agency for years, I think I know a little bit about this. But who knows?
Frankly, the kind of exams I've taken to get assignments with some companies are fairly straight forward and are meant to get the shopper to read and understant the requirements of the job. They are also trivial and "open book." So, no complaints. But what comes next in a series wouldn't seem to have much to do with performing a retail shop, where you have to convincingly lie to the sales person and remember a lot of information. Show me the correlation.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2011 09:22AM by Glabow.

Since we're potential ICs and not "hired" as employees, the MSCs don't have to abide by the same rules. I understand the reasons for wanting tests to weed out the ones not up to following instructions. But, I also fear some of them may have been designed like the old IBM tests Glabow mentions by former corporate HR types.

I don't have a problem with these tests. They aren't illegal or even unethical. Take a quick look at some of the "I NO LIKE COMPANY X THEY DON'T PAYS ME FIST ENOUGH" complaint posts here (some, not all) and you'll see how right it is to establish a standard, even if it's a small one.

raisitup Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't have a problem with these tests. They
> aren't illegal or even unethical. Take a quick
> look at some of the "I NO LIKE COMPANY X THEY
> DON'T PAYS ME FIST ENOUGH" complaint posts here
> (some, not all) and you'll see how right it is to
> establish a standard, even if it's a small one.

Okay, so my coffee almost landed all over my brand-spanking new keyboard (courtesy of MS'ing) thank you very much!

I haven't gone back and re-tried the test. I'm paranoid now! (ha!) Remember, I've only got one chance left! I'm hoping they forget I tried it twice and give me a "reset" button!

In response to your quote though, you should see me trying to TEXT! I have to spell "Every.Single.Word" correctly. I always say, "I do not do chat-speak". My son and daughter-in-law just laugh at me. I'm always tearing apart my boss's grammar and spelling errors when he puts up a website blurb; his response? "Well, the search engines will find it better the way I spell it!"

Um, okay, if you say, you're signing my paychecks!

I guess I took it when registering years ago, however haven't worked for Sinclair all year, no problem, just forgot about them, and they didn't have stuff here, or I missed it. I called and left a message stating that, and wala, next day I have a shop to do Wed. No re-testing.

klhofbauer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> raisitup Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I don't have a problem with these tests. They
> > aren't illegal or even unethical. Take a quick
> > look at some of the "I NO LIKE COMPANY X THEY
> > DON'T PAYS ME FIST ENOUGH" complaint posts here
> > (some, not all) and you'll see how right it is
> to
> > establish a standard, even if it's a small one.
>
> Okay, so my coffee almost landed all over my
> brand-spanking new keyboard (courtesy of MS'ing)
> thank you very much!
>
> I haven't gone back and re-tried the test. I'm
> paranoid now! (ha!) Remember, I've only got one
> chance left! I'm hoping they forget I tried it
> twice and give me a "reset" button!
>
> In response to your quote though, you should see
> me trying to TEXT! I have to spell
> "Every.Single.Word" correctly. I always say, "I
> do not do chat-speak". My son and daughter-in-law
> just laugh at me. I'm always tearing apart my
> boss's grammar and spelling errors when he puts up
> a website blurb; his response? "Well, the search
> engines will find it better the way I spell it!"
>
> Um, okay, if you say, you're signing my paychecks!


I'm the same way, which is why I cannot own a phone without a QWERTY keyboard. I'm sure there is still a 12 year old out there that can out-type me using a 9 key but hey....

Oh, and your boss may be right, depending on the algorithm that Google is currently using.

I'll repeat... I love this MSC. I have actually called from the road and said I am standing across the street from a _____. Do you need it shopped? Once they did, so I made an extra $14 by walking 30 feet. The other time I did not luck out, but they thanked me for my diligence. I have never had any payment issues with them and the shops are easy. I guess I didn't a problem with the test (or maybe I didn't have to take it???) If I did have a problem, I would call one of the schedulers. Mary Reyes is hard to get in touch with but she is very friendly. So is Emmett. He is easy to get in touch with. Good luck.