Why do most editors stay anonymous? It seems like they are paranoid if someone has their email or name. After all, they can use fictitious names. How can anyone communicate back to them?

I'm not an editor for any MSC, however I have done editing, in addition to writing. I've found it harder to edit someone I know than it is to edit a complete stranger. Why? Maybe because I know them. Editing is a thankless task. If you make any changes at all, then you're basically telling someone their work wasn't good enough. That's a hard thing to do.

I think the anonimity helps them do their job better.

When I worked as a scheduler a variety of editors might be doing the editing on one project. All the contact was then done through the scheduler rather than to have a bunch of people being different contact points.

Liz

Savana23 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why do most editors stay anonymous? It seems like
> they are paranoid if someone has their email or
> name. After all, they can use fictitious names.
> How can anyone communicate back to them?

When I edited, the shoppers had my first name and my email address because that was how the companies I edited for wanted it. If it were completely up to me, I would still disclose my unique email address because shoppers might need to email me.

There are legitimate reasons why some editors stay anonymous. In addition to what James and Liz discussed, a company may require its editors to be anonymous, for the same reasons certain newspapers and academic journals do.

In my experience as a shopper, I usually can communicate with an editor directly via the editor's email account. In the rare cases where I could not contact my editors directly, I could still communicate with the editing staff, my schedulers, or other company representatives.

I would not be so quick to label editors who chose not to disclose their names or email addresses as paranoid. If you had read some of the hostile emails some shoppers sent to their editors, you might see things differently.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2013 05:54PM by BusyBeeBuzzBuzzBuzz.

Hey, Mary. You like me! You really, really like me!

(Yes, I realize Ms. Sally never actually said that.)

Actually I think she did say that when she won an Academy award. It sounds exactly right. Yes, I do like you but I don't know why I like you over and over. I'm wondering if I'm coming down with the shakes and don't know it. I'm not on here near as much and I miss it. I have some Firestones to get this month and then I'll have my schedule completely cleared out. I've put most of what I do on hold to write a book and I think it will take about a year, maybe a little longer. I'll probably pick up a few shops along the way to keep my hand in the game and I'll check in from time to time. I love learning new things and doing new things and I'm really excited about this book. Y'all keep up the good work and don't let each other get out of line. I'll weigh in now and then if I see anything get out of hand.

There was only one shop when I wish I could have communicated directly with an editor and that was the BMW shop in Columbia, SC [there's a thread about it, BMW shop gone awry, iirc].

I was able to communicate with the scheduler on this shop and he guided me in where to put certain information [including a transcription of certain key points from the recording of the shop]. I found out later the editor questioned some of my reporting until he listened to the shop recording.

I did get an attaboy for keeping my cool at over 100mph on an interstate.

Sometimes it's not really our choice to stay anonymous. At my company, the editors don't have direct contact with shoppers. The scheduler is the middleman between the editors and the shoppers. I actually prefer it that way because it helps me stay objective when I'm editing a report and I could give honest (but constructive) feedback. If I knew I was editing any of your reports, I would probably feel like I have to hold back on what I really want to say because I'd be worried about offending you and in the end, it wouldn't help you improve as a shopper. So it's just better for me not knowing who the shopper is.

HeatherC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sometimes it's not really our choice to stay
> anonymous. At my company, the editors don't have
> direct contact with shoppers. The scheduler is the
> middleman between the editors and the shoppers. I
> actually prefer it that way because it helps me
> stay objective when I'm editing a report and I
> could give honest (but constructive) feedback. If
> I knew I was editing any of your reports, I would
> probably feel like I have to hold back on what I
> really want to say because I'd be worried about
> offending you and in the end, it wouldn't help you
> improve as a shopper. So it's just better for me
> not knowing who the shopper is.


You have made some very good points, I wish that when a company requires narrative that they would give an example of what it is that they consider to be a good report. That way the writer knows what to expect from them. Sometime it's kind of difficult to do a good report when you have different editors that want different things. I have had an occasions working for the same company in which one editor said that my narrative was too brief, okay so I lengthened it, the next editor said that it was too wordy, okay so I shortened it, the next editor said that it didn't give enough descriptive detail. Guess what? I'm not going to work for that company anymore because believe I don't know what they want, they aren't telling me what they want other than too this, not enough that so I would rather work with a company that is willing to tell me what I want so that I can give it to them.

The example narratives I see in some shop guidelines often make me wonder. I've seen sample narratives with obvious spelling and grammar errors as well as blatantly subjective statements included when the specific narrative calls for complete objectivity. Yet, this is the sample I am supposed to follow.

BusyBeeBuzzBuzzBuzz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Savana23 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why do most editors stay anonymous? It seems
> like
> > they are paranoid if someone has their email or
> > name. After all, they can use fictitious names.
>
> > How can anyone communicate back to them?
>
> When I edited, the shoppers had my first name and
> my email address because that was how the
> companies I edited for wanted it. If it were
> completely up to me, I would still disclose my
> unique email address because shoppers might need
> to email me.
>
> There are legitimate reasons why some editors stay
> anonymous. In addition to what James and Liz
> discussed, a company may require its editors to be
> anonymous, for the same reasons certain newspapers
> and academic journals do.
>
> In my experience as a shopper, I usually can
> communicate with an editor directly via the
> editor's email account. In the rare cases where I
> could not contact my editors directly, I could
> still communicate with the editing staff, my
> schedulers, or other company representatives.
>
> I would not be so quick to label editors who chose
> not to disclose their names or email addresses as
> paranoid. If you had read some of the hostile
> emails some shoppers sent to their editors, you
> might see things differently.


Thanks for the information; I have not had the opportunity to read any emails sent to editors, I do not know how I would do that - I know for me, I do not send those types of email especially in a business atmosphere. My choice of the word "paranoid" was not to insinuate, label or insult editors. I guess what I am saying it was not literal maybe scared, fearful, not willing for some reason might have been a better choice of words. It was a question and I only needed an answer from someone who might know. Thanks again.

HeatherC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sometimes it's not really our choice to stay
> anonymous. At my company, the editors don't have
> direct contact with shoppers. The scheduler is the
> middleman between the editors and the shoppers. I
> actually prefer it that way because it helps me
> stay objective when I'm editing a report and I
> could give honest (but constructive) feedback. If
> I knew I was editing any of your reports, I would
> probably feel like I have to hold back on what I
> really want to say because I'd be worried about
> offending you and in the end, it wouldn't help you
> improve as a shopper. So it's just better for me
> not knowing who the shopper is.

Thanks Heather - this is good information for me,

Karen IL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The example narratives I see in some shop
> guidelines often make me wonder. I've seen sample
> narratives with obvious spelling and grammar
> errors as well as blatantly subjective statements
> included when the specific narrative calls for
> complete objectivity. Yet, this is the sample I
> am supposed to follow.


My company is one of those MSCs who uses example narratives full of errors. When I brought it up with my supervisor, she told me they were written by people in Europe whose first language isn't English. Other example narratives were put through an online translator and so far nobody has had the time to edit them. My company just hired more editors so we're slowly working on getting those narratives corrected.

HeatherC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Karen IL Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The example narratives I see in some shop
> > guidelines often make me wonder. I've seen
> sample
> > narratives with obvious spelling and grammar
> > errors as well as blatantly subjective
> statements
> > included when the specific narrative calls for
> > complete objectivity. Yet, this is the sample
> I
> > am supposed to follow.
>
>
> My company is one of those MSCs who uses example
> narratives full of errors. When I brought it up
> with my supervisor, she told me they were written
> by people in Europe whose first language isn't
> English. Other example narratives were put through
> an online translator and so far nobody has had the
> time to edit them. My company just hired more
> editors so we're slowly working on getting those
> narratives corrected.



I don't think that I have ever come across an example with errors, however I just want the format. I know that I'm supposed to give explanations in the answers but like I said, some editors want different things in their report. Uniformity would be great.

pammie8223,

I totally agree with you. It certainly would make the shoppers and editors' lives a little easier. You should email the MSCs and suggest they include more example narratives in their guidelines.

HeatherC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My company is one of those MSCs who uses example
> narratives full of errors. When I brought it up
> with my supervisor, she told me they were written
> by people in Europe whose first language isn't
> English. <snipped>


WHY?!?!?! Why on *earth* would they be written by ESL Europeans?!?!?! That is just asinine, unless, of course, the company is based out of Europe.

I see the 'example narratives full of errors' quite often and it is *really* annoying. But not quite as annoying as the editor who writes to tell me of the errors in my report, making spelling/grammar/usage errors in the email. Sheesh.

StormCloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HeatherC Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > My company is one of those MSCs who uses
> example
> > narratives full of errors. When I brought it up
> > with my supervisor, she told me they were
> written
> > by people in Europe whose first language isn't
> > English.
>
>
> WHY?!?!?! Why on *earth* would they be written by
> ESL Europeans?!?!?! That is just asinine, unless,
> of course, the company is based out of Europe.
>
> I see the 'example narratives full of errors'
> quite often and it is *really* annoying. But not
> quite as annoying as the editor who writes to tell
> me of the errors in my report, making
> spelling/grammar/usage errors in the email.
> Sheesh.



I crack up when the editors write me about my mistakes and their email is full of them I'm going to start saving them!

My company is based in Europe and has editors in different countries.

I have to admit I've been guilty of the occasional grammar/spelling errors myself when giving feedback, lol. Because my company is overseas, I get reports at weird hours and have a deadline to meet. So often times I'm editing reports in the wee hours of the morning while trying to fight off sleep and I sometimes don't notice the typos. I know it's not an excuse but that's the reality of our job.


StormCloud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WHY?!?!?! Why on *earth* would they be written by
> ESL Europeans?!?!?! That is just asinine, unless,
> of course, the company is based out of Europe.
>
> I see the 'example narratives full of errors'
> quite often and it is *really* annoying. But not
> quite as annoying as the editor who writes to tell
> me of the errors in my report, making
> spelling/grammar/usage errors in the email.
> Sheesh.

HeatherC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My company is based in Europe and has editors in
> different countries.

Well, that's a little more understandable then. But it seems they could still find an American speaker/writer to help out with some things.


> I have to admit I've been guilty of the occasional
> grammar/spelling errors myself when giving
> feedback, lol. Because my company is overseas, I
> get reports at weird hours and have a deadline to
> meet. So often times I'm editing reports in the
> wee hours of the morning while trying to fight off
> sleep and I sometimes don't notice the typos. I
> know it's not an excuse but that's the reality of
> our job.

I know the feeling of doing things in your sleep.

And although the things I complained about are, indeed, annoying... well, yeah, even editors are human and humans can be annoying. Even myself.

But you do have to admit it'd be a bit off-putting to be criticized on your spelling/punctuation/grammar/usage in an email full of the same.

No hard feelings intended. Just a little vent.

"Do as I say, not as I do"?

itsasecret Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Do as I say, not as I do"?


Actually, I'm quite lenient when it comes to other shoppers' spelling and grammar mistakes. I'll fix them in a report but I won't deduct points or make comments about it when I'm giving feedback to a shopper. I understand good writing is a learned skill and doesn't come naturally to everyone.

It's nice to hear you say that. Someone can be a good shopper and have excellent observational skills and produce a useful report even if grammar is not perfect. I'm glad you recognize that. It doesn't do much good to pick at someone about minor typos. Typos happen, and it's nearly impossible for us to proofread our own work perfectly because our brains will make us see what we meant to type. So why pick about it? I'm glad to know at least one editor out there is reasonable about this!

So no sooner than I placed this question on the forum when I received a rating from an editor who said they gave a 7 because of grammar and spelling etc. I always make copies of my reports so I pulled it out, asked my brother who is a Professor in English up in NY and asked him to take a look and tell me what he thinks. He emails me back, I forgot to put a period after a sentence and that was all. So now even if I wanted to contact the anonymous scheduler to get further feedback and to explain what they meant by:

"Your report has been finalized. You have received a score of 7 due to numerous spelling, grammatical, and structural changes that needed to be made throughout your report. Thank you very much; have a great day!"

I could dissect this blip to death!

. pammie8223 makes a very good point. The guidelines do not tell an evaluator what the client wants.

Editors are reading this so this is for them from an entrepreneur’s point of view. People want to be helped. They want to trust the merchant. They want an equal value for their money. They do not want to be cheated or abused. They want to be respected. Editors should remember that. Some editors believe business people want to hear I evaluated their location and everything was perfect.

I am an entrepreneur. I thank those people who told me "That will never work." and they asked me, "Who would want to pay money for that?" when I created a new business model.

An editor sent me a copy of the report that was sent to the client. My report would have been rejected for falsification if I wrote that fantasy. I found the editor did not want a snapshot of reality. The editor wanted a positive report. Even if the reality was negative the editor wanted to hear the experience was wonderful. The merchant probably wanted a clue as to why their volume was decreasing and why they were loosing business. That business failed a few months later but could have been saved.

I evaluate and report from a history of helping business people. It was my job for thirty years before I retired. People I mentored, clients and customers of clients that wanted my services created one of my companies. Business people experienced what I was doing and told others. All I did was answer the phone and say, "yes" when people asked if I could help them. I was glad to help and the money they paid me was not bad either.

I often told clients, “I did not call you. You called me to help you.” When logic was applied everyone profited. Like a mystery shopper I occasionally visited locations as a consultant. The employees and managers did not know who I was. I offered my observations and trained staff to understand they were valuable and to learn, do and train others.

I'll bet we all could take a good guess at what intelli-gent MSC delivered up this verdict.

I think some of them just copy and paste, "numerous spelling, grammatical, and structural changes " any time the copy isn't 100% perfect. Better to beat you up than say, "You left off a period and I broke a nail typing it in for you so I'm giving you a 7 because now I have to have my nails done again."

Savana23 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So no sooner than I placed this question on the
> forum when I received a rating from an editor who
> said they gave a 7 because of grammar and spelling
> etc. I always make copies of my reports so I
> pulled it out, asked my brother who is a Professor
> in English up in NY and asked him to take a look
> and tell me what he thinks. He emails me back, I
> forgot to put a period after a sentence and that
> was all. So now even if I wanted to contact the
> anonymous scheduler to get further feedback and to
> explain what they meant by:
>
> "Your report has been finalized. You have received
> a score of 7 due to numerous spelling,
> grammatical, and structural changes that needed to
> be made throughout your report. Thank you very
> much; have a great day!"
>
> I could dissect this blip to death!

itsasecret Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think some of them just copy and paste,
> "numerous spelling, grammatical, and structural
> changes " any time the copy isn't 100% perfect.
> Better to beat you up than say, "You left off a
> period and I broke a nail typing it in for you so
> I'm giving you a 7 because now I have to have my
> nails done again."

Hilarious, Secret! Thanks for the so needed laugh today.

Savana23 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So no sooner than I placed this question on the
> forum when I received a rating from an editor who
> said they gave a 7 because of grammar and spelling
> etc. I always make copies of my reports so I
> pulled it out, asked my brother who is a Professor
> in English up in NY and asked him to take a look
> and tell me what he thinks. He emails me back, I
> forgot to put a period after a sentence and that
> was all. So now even if I wanted to contact the
> anonymous scheduler to get further feedback and to
> explain what they meant by:
>
> "Your report has been finalized. You have received
> a score of 7 due to numerous spelling,
> grammatical, and structural changes that needed to
> be made throughout your report. Thank you very
> much; have a great day!"
>
> I could dissect this blip to death!


I've received comments similar to the one above where I'm certain there were no grammatical errors. I think a lot of so-called "grammatical errors" amount to no more than a matter of differences in 'style' preferences. I am no professor but I have a pretty good grasp of the language and proper sentence structure. For example, I will construct a sentence so that it does not end in a prepostion, but lots of people do not observe that rule. Most editors are just everyday people with no specialized grammatical training. *shrug*

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2013 12:28AM by jncut.

Iagree. I enjoy when I receive a similar and ASK what exactly were my spelling or grammar issues. Have I ever heard back? Nope!



itsasecret Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'll bet we all could take a good guess at what
> intelli-gent MSC delivered up this verdict.
>
> I think some of them just copy and paste,
> "numerous spelling, grammatical, and structural
> changes " any time the copy isn't 100% perfect.
> Better to beat you up than say, "You left off a
> period and I broke a nail typing it in for you so
> I'm giving you a 7 because now I have to have my
> nails done again."
>
> Savana23 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So no sooner than I placed this question on the
> > forum when I received a rating from an editor
> who
> > said they gave a 7 because of grammar and
> spelling
> > etc. I always make copies of my reports so I
> > pulled it out, asked my brother who is a
> Professor
> > in English up in NY and asked him to take a
> look
> > and tell me what he thinks. He emails me back,
> I
> > forgot to put a period after a sentence and
> that
> > was all. So now even if I wanted to contact the
> > anonymous scheduler to get further feedback and
> to
> > explain what they meant by:
> >
> > "Your report has been finalized. You have
> received
> > a score of 7 due to numerous spelling,
> > grammatical, and structural changes that needed
> to
> > be made throughout your report. Thank you very
> > much; have a great day!"
> >
> > I could dissect this blip to death!

I once had an editor give me an "8" and said that she had to fix some "things". I wrote back and asked what she meant by "things", but, you guessed it, NO RESPONSE! "Things"! Huh!

itsasecret Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'll bet we all could take a good guess at what
> intelli-gent MSC delivered up this verdict.
>
> I think some of them just copy and paste,
> "numerous spelling, grammatical, and structural
> changes " any time the copy isn't 100% perfect.
> Better to beat you up than say, "You left off a
> period and I broke a nail typing it in for you so
> I'm giving you a 7 because now I have to have my
> nails done again."
>
> Savana23 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So no sooner than I placed this question on the
> > forum when I received a rating from an editor
> who
> > said they gave a 7 because of grammar and
> spelling
> > etc. I always make copies of my reports so I
> > pulled it out, asked my brother who is a
> Professor
> > in English up in NY and asked him to take a
> look
> > and tell me what he thinks. He emails me back,
> I
> > forgot to put a period after a sentence and
> that
> > was all. So now even if I wanted to contact the
> > anonymous scheduler to get further feedback and
> to
> > explain what they meant by:
> >
> > "Your report has been finalized. You have
> received
> > a score of 7 due to numerous spelling,
> > grammatical, and structural changes that needed
> to
> > be made throughout your report. Thank you very
> > much; have a great day!"
> >
> > I could dissect this blip to death!

Gee Itsasecret, you read my mind!