Well, I just saw on another thread a member suggest that another member get an EIN and not use their SSN. Can someone please give me the benefits of this and how to go about it? I am rather new and have given my SSN to date.

Suggest you do a search. There has been a lot of discussion on this...

[sa.www4.irs.gov]

This will explain better than I can.

An ein is NOT necessary. AND, it may complicate your life with local taxes. Please do a search on the forums and read all about it!

Welcome!

I think that the easiest way is to sign up with Trendsource. Since they're passionately in favor of EINs, they provide you with the link.

Using an EIN for mystery shopping will keep you from having your SSN associated with your name, address, and bank information (in some cases) on dozens of databases managed by companies whose security may be no better than Target's was.

It's very hard to commit identity theft with an EIN if a database gets hacked.

And most local laws that might react to an EIN probably would require you to be licensed and pay taxes anyway, not based on the EIN, but because you are in business and the EIN is an indication of that. However, it's quite possible to have an EIN and not be in business -- EINs are not generally canceled. Someone could have an EIN from a business they used to own, and continue using it years later for other purposes.

I've asked here a few times, but nobody has ever delivered up the name of any town or state that made them do anything or pay more taxes simply because of the EIN. I've wanted to research this but haven't been able to because nobody will tell me where this allegedly has happened. I'm pretty sure the IRS doesn't distribute lists of people who have EINs to anyone.

I've had an EIN for over 17 years, but I've also always had the required business license for my town or city and declare and pay taxes on all my income. If you're in business, but hoping to fly under the radar to avoid paying local taxes, then having an EIN (and admitting it) might help "prove" that you are, indeed, in business despite your protestations to the contrary. If you want to lie to the taxman, you're on your own with that. The EIN or lack of it is not what determines if you are in business or have taxes to pay.

So check your local ordinances (call your town hall and check your state website) to see if operating a home business requires a business license or any taxes and comply with them. You'll sleep better, and it won't matter if you have an EIN or not.

News of a hack has become almost a daily occurrence recently, so I am very reticent to put my SSN on line - especially with MSC's who's firewalls may not be all that robust. I use an EIN for the MSC's and haven't had a problem except with Market Force which stubbornly refuses to admit there is an ID theft and hacking issue.

This link should get you to the application form. Click the link at the bottom of the page.

Darn! Here's the link to the EIN page: [www.irs.gov]

For the umpteenth time. I have checked with my local governments and will consider what they tell me to be my appropriate course of action. And no, I don't feel like sharing the name of my particular municipality either publicly or by private message.

Oh yeah, thanks again for assuming some of us are either trying to cheat the government or just dumb asses who can't do our own research.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2014 06:02PM by LisaSTL.

Don't put words in my mouth, Lisa. I didn't call anyone here a dumbass. People come here asking for information, thinking they will get accurate information. They're not dumbasses for asking here instead of looking up their own info. But it would help if the information they got was accurate and helpful and not alarmist. Seems to me my last comment above was to check their local ordinances and do what they need to do to stay legal.

And many people are most certainly trying to fly under the radar and cheat the government. We see this all the time when they say things like "I got a 1099 so I have to report it," implying that in the absence of a 1099 they wouldn't, even though all income should be reported whether you got a 1099 or not. And I have no problem with people doing their own research and drawing their own conclusions; I have a problem with people advising others not to do something without regard to whether the person they are giving advice to is actually in the same circumstances or not. No two people's tax situations are identical.

There have been plenty of threads here where members have actively tried to discourage new shoppers from using an EIN because of this vague bogeyman of "something bad might happen" without ever identifying exactly what might happen and how the EIN comes into the equation. I have done a lot of googling trying to verify these vague stories that usually take the form of "someone here said they had all kinds of grief because they got an EIN" without ever specifying what happened or what the circumstances were. It all gets blamed on the EIN. Maybe it's true in a couple of obscure communities with oppressive business laws. But nobody can confirm it because nobody will provide any details. But that's your right.

Most likely, the bad thing should have happened anyway by virtue of the person being self-employed or working out of their home. I don't know of any place in the country that has an "EIN tax" where you get taxed just because you have an EIN in the absence of operating a business under it.

In the meantime, there have probably been many people who were deterred from getting the EIN "just to be on the safe side," leaving their identity at risk of being stolen, because someone here said something bad might happen. The risk of identity theft is very real and it has happened to me, which is why I don't give out my SSN unless I have no other choice.

I just don't find it any of your business where other people live. There are 50 states and thousands upon thousands of counties, cities, municipalities, parishes and townships. All governing bodies, many taxing districts. Why do you need to research someone else's locale? More importantly, why do you care? Do you want the name of my city and county to find out if I am telling the truth? Since what happens here only impacts shoppers in my immediate area, not even the entire metro, what would be my point in lying. I'm certainly not afraid of competition.

The big arguments about the EIN were actually focused on two specific MSCs with the misguided notion forcing their contractors to have an EIN would somehow protect them (the MSC) if the government questioned the IC classification. Several of us mentioned regulations in our areas as an aside to the conversation and as one of the reasons we were not inclined to accommodate said MSCs. So yes, it brought up the notion contractors should check their own areas rather than be met with an unpleasant surprise. Personally, I have never furthered the myth it would have any impact on Federal tax returns.

Trend is the only one of mine asking for one. however, I was told I didn't need an ein as I was grandfathered in

amber - I am also grandfathered in. We just lost our premier status.

dspeakes - There are a lot of reasons for not getting an EIN. One prime example is those on disability. Those on partial or full disability are allowed to make so much a month without decreasing benefits. An EIN changes their status.
Both Maritz and Trendsource pushed the issue. When it started costing them money, they backed down. We even had a Trendsource employee violate company policy, join the forum and post promoting the EIN issue. This idiot got caught and removed from the forum and was reamed at work...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2014 11:07PM by mrcomputer101.

Affecting disability is a whole other matter. But I would think if you're supposed to be totally disabled, being in the business of mystery shopping, whether using an EIN or SSN, would suggest you are capable of earning money and the disability payments should be affected, just as they would if you worked 10 hours a week at McDonald's or doing telemarketing or stuffing envelopes at home for pay.


OP was asking about the benefits of having one, Lisa. The controversy over MSCs trying to force us to get EIN's has absolutely nothing to do with the benefits we get from not having our identities at risk. And you won that battle with the MSCs. So why are you still bringing it up?

Can't we just answer these questions in a neutral way: Having an EIN may help protect you from identity theft, however some shoppers have been told by their local governments that having one will subject them to regulations they might otherwise be exempt from. You need to check your locality to be sure you are complying with all laws, which you should do anyway whether you get an EIN or not.

Neither encouraging nor discouraging, just giving them simple facts, both sides of the story, without pushing them in either direction.


I couldn't care less where anyone lives. I'm just frustrated because I have been trying for almost two years since I ran onto this hot topic to find a single instance where any locality cites "having an EIN" as a reason for ... whatever it is you think they do to you for having it. And I can't find one. But I'm looking in the dark because I don't know where this has occurred. I want to understand it because if this is true, it is wrong, and letters should be written to the jurisdiction who is doing it and maybe the IRS as well, because the EIN should not be used for this purpose (to single out people for additional enforcement actions).

It's just a nickname for your SSN unless you actually hire an employee, then it is used to manage your payroll tax account.

I mentioned it because it would be nice for newer readers to understand the original context. Otherwise they may get the idea we were on some type of crusade to prevent everyone from getting an EIN.

I guess you need to do a bit of research on disability before posting in judgment of others.

As far as bring up our "Battle", I will repost it whenever someone blindly provides a blanket statement about getting an EIN...

Eek, I didn't realize this was such a hotly debated topic. I appreciate all the replies.

And rest assured, I was not asking as an attempt to find ways around paying taxes in any way.

The thing is, Lisa, you're bringing up a controversy that is largely a non-issue at the moment and has no particular relevance to the question that was asked, any more than a new shopper needs to be told "Sometimes never" and get the whole Freeman story if they innocently ask, "How long does it usually take to get paid for mystery shopping?" Freeman was a fluke. The couple of people who think they were targeted for enforcement because of their EIN are also flukes.

Mysterious came to us in all innocence, just wanting to know if this is something s/he should consider doing. Something that is widely recommended by countless small business experts as a smart thing to do if you're in a situation of having to give a tax ID number to places that may have questionable control over their data. Instead they were given controversy and nastiness and few facts to back up the controversy.

Anyone on disability needs to know what their restrictions are. There are exceptions to all rules, so if being on disability carries some unusual baggage with it, then the disabled person likely knows, or should know, what restrictions they have on working while collecting disability. If you're mystery shopping while on disability, hopefully you fully understand the consequences.

I will heartily agree that forcing someone to get an EIN is unnecessary and by itself means absolutely nothing in the debate over employee vs contractor. But that doesn't make EINs per se evil or dangerous.

Now, if mysterious had come in here saying, "An MSC says I can't shop for them any more unless I get an EIN. Do I really have to?" then that would be a good time to tell them of the prior controversy and encourage them to stand their ground if they don't want to get the EIN. And don't be surprised if I chime in with "more shops for me" if they ended up being terminated from the MSC for refusing to do it. But that's not what mysterious came here to ask about.

And mrcomputer, I did not judge anyone here. My dispute lies entirely with the whole negativity that issues from some people here every time the subject of EIN's is raised. The subject never was about EIN's and disability; it was about EIN's possibly bringing down *local* enforcement of unknown business laws. What does that have to do with anyone's eligibility for disability payments? If someone asked, "Should I take this golf shop?" do we really need to announce that they could lose their disability payments if they were seen playing 18 holes of golf, when we have no way of knowing if they are supposed to be wheelchair-bound in the first place? The disabled should know what they're allowed to do. If they're not allowed to be in business, then they shouldn't be mystery shopping at all and the EIN is merely one indicator that they are not following the rules.

The thing is Katie, you brought up the controversy that is a non-issue to this thread. I could quote it, but it seems so much easier for you to just scroll up and read how other people's problems are just alleged because YOU haven't confirmed it yet.

Regarding disability,
Those getting disability payments are actually encouraged to gain and/or maintain skills while on disability, so they are permitted a certain amount of earnings per month without losing any eligibility. This encourages them to seek and find options to get off of disability or lower their dependence upon it. The says when "any" work would get your benefits cut off are long gone, and for good reasons.

Please do not assume that those on disability are trying to game the system by MSing.