So, today I went on my first shop in ages, at a clothing store that is, let's say, expensive, and very European-fit and style. I wear a size 8, which is Medium, in their clothes. Medium is also their largest size in their regular store, but larger stores carry Large as well (which, is considered "Plus Size". The scenario was that I was to ask about dress clothes for work.

I asked two employees (one I learned was the Manager, the other was the employee) for help. I told them I needed dress pants and blouses for work. I told them I wear size 8 or size Medium. I double-checked with the Manager, if size 8 is Medium. The Manager told me "Normally yes, but the dress pants are...um...ah...hmm...narrower fit. You can also try our store in XYZ mall, they carry our Plus Sizes, which is Large."

I said thank you, and said I will try the Medium since I am already here. Then, the Manager told the other employee to help me.

Should I put the jerkiness of the Manager in the report? My only concern is that it might identify me as the mystery shopper to the Manager (if he remembers which customer he said that too).

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2014 04:42AM by MilessMum.

The transcript sounds more helpful than jerky to me. The manager knew the fit of the pants, and that trying them in your usual size might make you feel like a khaki-clad kielbasa. It must have been the tone of the manager's voice that turned you off. If that is the case, when writing it up, you might describe the tone of voice.

I don't know... I think he should have let you discover for yourself whether or not the 8 would fit you. Instead of telling you that you were Plus size, he should have said, "This particular line runs small but let's see how you do with them" instead of suggesting you go shop elsewhere without even letting you see if they fit.

So . . . did they fit or not? If he was right that they run small and wouldn't fit you, then I'd cut him more slack (no pun intended) than if they did fit you just fine.

It sounded like he was being helpful not mean. It's interesting how different our perceptions can be. I went on a mystery shop with my daughter once (she was the shopper, I was just tagging along). She had her interaction and as she walked away she said "She was rude, that's going in my report!" I was wth? I thought she was just fine! I didn't think she was rude at all. Had I been doing the report she would have gotten a thumbs up!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2014 04:19PM by jpgilham.

I also would not have viewed this as jerky. It sounded to me like he was doing his job. While I think he might have worded it more tactfully (when sizes run small and a woman becomes a "plus size," many women may be sensitive), I would not have viewed his behavior as jerky. Yes, I would put it in the report, but I would report only the interaction as it happened - the facts - without coloring it with how it made you feel. Let the client interpret the actions according to their own standards. I guess the difference in perception between individuals is why they want our observations and not our perceptions and opinions.

Speaking as a man, the manager was just being a man. His comments were meant to be helpful, but they came out wrong, as many of the ladies here have said. I'm for putting in the transcript and let the client interpret it the way they want. If you feel you just have to comment, then something along the lines of, "He could have phrased his comment in a different way."

It sounded like he was doing his job to me as well. I would not have been offended at all.

When did size 10 get moved into the "plus" category?

they are European sizes, which are not the same as American sizes.

The pants did fit. He was staffing the fitting room, and I specifically made a point of coming out in every size 8 outfit to ask his opinion on if it's flattering or not. He said yes, this is your size, and all the colors suited me. Then, from ignoring me, he suddenly became the model employee...offering accessories, jewelry, shoes,...offering to place my items at the register etc etc.

I didn't put it in the report, because I gave him the benefit of the doubt as many have expressed here, that he was just doing his job. What can I say, I thought it was presumptuous.

I was just as surprised as Lisa that a size 10/Large is considered "Plus size."

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2014 03:22PM by MilessMum.

If they are using 8 and 10 the sizes are either US, UK or Australian. European would be 36 and 38.

If he was that dismissive about them fitting you, to the point where he recommended another store, and was clearly wrong about it, I think I would have mentioned it. His comment, being an incorrect assessment of the size of your body, would have had the effect of driving away a customer who was not on a mystery shop and couldn't leave. It would be different if he had said, "If our 8's that run small don't fit you, our other store carries the same pants in a larger size. Their 10 is more like the typical 8 would be" without saying the words "Plus Size."


When I could squeeze into an American 8 I considered myself skinny. I don't know what a European 8 is the equivalent of. If a 10 is large/Plus, wouldn't that be about an American 14 or 16? I rarely buy clothes in stores except jeans. (Thrift stores and hand-me-downs are my usual fare. I hate clothes shopping with a passion.) I'm a large now and I'm 45 pounds heavier than when I could squeeze into the 8.

Men who sell clothes need to understand that women are sensitive about the size of their bodies and it's far better to blame a mis-fit on the clothes "running small" than to suggest a woman is larger than she thinks she is. (Especially when they're wrong about it.) But that comment needs to come after the woman can't get into the size she thought she needed.

LisaSTL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If they are using 8 and 10 the sizes are either
> US, UK or Australian. European would be 36 and 38.


Ah, I should have remembered that. I misunderstood what OP said and I just realized OP said she wore an 8 in their style. I thought the 8 was their sizing. If those were American sizes no way is a 10 Plus size. I don't think that kicks in until at least 14. (I've been Plus size a lot more than I've ever been an 8)

MilessMum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ..........., expensive, and very European-fit and style. I wear a size 8,
> which is Medium, in their clothes. .......... The scenario was that I
> was to ask about dress clothes for work.
>
> I asked ............. for help. I
> double-checked with the Manager, if size 8 is
> Medium. The Manager told me "Normally yes, but the
> dress pants are...um...ah...hmm...narrower fit.
> You can also try our store in XYZ mall, they carry
> our Plus Sizes, which is Large."
>
> ...........I will try the Medium
> since I am already here......... the Manager told
> the other employee to help me.
>
> Should I put the jerkiness of the Manager in the
> report? ............


As asked ......."Did the medium fit?" Dress pant are tailored differently than regular pants. Some of the darts and seams are sewn to make the wearer appear smaller or slimmer than they are. After trying on the Medium size 8 slacks, were you able to bend down, do jumping jacks or do a split?

If you did not try on the pants, because you were not require to, then the Manager was not being a jerk. (Remember, jerk is an opinion, not a fact. Reports are to contain facts). It looked like the Manager was looking at the subject (YOU) and evaluating his "size" opinion, on what he saw. You apparently "looked" like you might need a larger size or a "plus size", in which they do not carry. That is probably why he handed you over to another employee.

Sometimes when we take time off from "Our" normal routine we expand. You were taking care of Miles and watching him grow. Now you are ready to get out there to do "Financial life things". You knew this shop sales European fit and style clothing. The style and fit might be different from yours, although maybe in the pre-Miles stage you were able to fit size 8/medium.

I broke up your Post b/c I saw that as being the part I was responding to. Don't take the Manager insense as being harsh or jerky. You did not state the gender of either employee so to say this is male versus this is female, does not change what was said and how you interpret it.

This is just an opinion, not meant to sound argumentative. and the world with you

sojo, she did try on the pants and they did fit.

Exactly...which is why I found it presumptuous. He told me this before I tried on the pants. In fairness, I did ask if size 8 is an Medium. All he needed to say was yes, since it really is a Medium. Because I just asked if size 8 is an Medium. I didn't ask how the pants fit, nor did I ask him if he thought size 8 would fit me. The other commentary could have come after I tried on the pants and if they didn't fit.

I believe that a European 10 would be an American 12/14. An American 16, would be a 12 European, I would think. My understanding is that European sizes only go up to 12, which would probably be a an XL.

I don't know if I should have mentioned it. By mentioning it, I would have been 100% outed. However, it's true that if I didn't need to shop there for the shop, I would have left the store, because obviously, they cannot assist me. At the same time, you could argue the Manager was just doing his job, which includes suggesting additional add-on products and accessories.
I do feel I gave my best on the report, but what if I missed something crucial for the client?

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2014 03:56PM by MilessMum.

I buy outfits from this store for work. Next time, if I take a shop from them again, I will make sure to wear something from their store.

On second inspection, Lisa is right. Numeric sizes are Australian, US and UK. This is a UK retailer. Sorry for the confusion everyone, but I really appreciate the feedback and discussion. No offense taken...and please, I don't mean any either

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2014 04:09PM by MilessMum.

The guy was still lacking tact. Vital if you are going to work in a women's clothing store. Women often have enough body issues without snide remarks from some snotty little punk with an attitude.

So you're questioning if you should report that the store personnel acted like a snooty, pompous, arrogant arse? In a high end store? If anything I would just say that the tone of voice sounded condescending. Or maybe just leave it out altogether since they are just about all like that. It's hard to put it past you but as someone who occasionally shops Rodeo Drive, it is what it is.

I recall shopping Hugo Boss once, a purchase and return assignment. The woman who helped me looked startled when I told her my shoe size in US rather than European size. Then when I returned the item I bought a few hours later she had this smug look on her face, like "I knew you couldn't afford it".

Or how about a "trendy" consignment store I did this past week. Where they rejected a pair of butt hugging workout pants that the clerk said had too loose of a fit and were too mature of a style. Doesn't matter how nice she tries to spin it, all I hear is you're fat and have the fashion sense of an older woman. But I'm sure she was just trained to say BS like that, so I opted to leave out the feeling of being insulted. I could tell from the racks of clothes that I was not their target market...maybe 5 years ago.

Was asking about a size part of the assignment?

I usually just go to my sizes, grab a size up and down and go in the fitting room.

Now, if I am required to interact with a sales associate, I still don't need them to tell me the size they think I am. I know my size. I would ask about color, texture, fit, business attire, etc. I would not ask about size. (unless required).

What if we flip this scenario just a bit? Instead of a slim woman being told she needs to go to the "plus size" store we have a man in a prophylactic shop and he is told by the female manager that they...um...ah...hmm...fit more generously and perhaps he should try the store in XYZ mall, where they carry our Teeny Weeny line. I'm pretty sure he would be highly insulted, offended, embarrassed, etc. As would a woman customer who was in the situation MilessMum was in during this shop.

I think the manager was an a-hole to say that to a woman customer who wears a small size. He needs some serious retraining!

NumberNineteen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What if we flip this scenario just a bit? Instead
> of a slim woman being told she needs to go to the
> "plus size" store we have a man in a prophylactic
> shop and he is told by the female manager that
> they...um...ah...hmm...fit more generously and
> perhaps he should try the store in XYZ mall, where
> they carry our Teeny Weeny line. I'm pretty sure
> he would be highly insulted, offended,
> embarrassed, etc. As would a woman customer who
> was in the situation MilessMum was in during this
> shop.
>
> I think the manager was an a-hole to say that to a
> woman customer who wears a small size. He needs
> some serious retraining!

I wonder if he might slightly be offended if she said, "Sir. Is that a banana in your pants or are you happy to see me?

Training was likely the issue. European and Junior sizes are also considerably smaller. I would report it if the interaction was part of the survey.

Here's my take.

A few years ago, I walked into a Victoria's Secret because I'd seen an ad online that was advertising with a lot of different body types and included things like panties that said "consent is sexy." It turns out the ad was actually made by someone for a graphics design class essentially to show a snot of a classmate that you could most certainly include diverse body types without "ruining" an ad, and as these things do, it'd gone viral without a source attached.

So far, not so good. I'm large busted (to the extent that places like Sears don't carry my size) and proportionately-hipped. Even so, they stood a chance to gain brand loyalty for their body scents or bottoms. Instead, the saleswoman guaranteed I will never set foot in one of their stores again when she looked me up and down and then said "we don't carry things for women your size." The "fatso" at the end of her sentence couldn't have been more clear if she'd actually said it aloud.

I walked right out and down to {intimacy}. You wanna treat me like trash for my size, I know a store that'll treat me like a princess and very clearly say that being a size 16 doesn't mean I don't have the right to look and feel good in my underwear (and even sexy, if I'm going for that).

So yes--if you would have walked out as a regular shopper, report it as a mystery one.

This is how it went down:

The Shop required an interaction with an associate regarding professional clothing for work, and had a purchase requirement too. Like I said, I shop here for work, so I know their clothes, styles, prices...and sizes. I know I fit in their size 8. Period.

The Manager and employee were in the fitting room area hanging all the return clothes on hangers to return to the floor. I approached them for the interaction. The Manager said Hello to me and made eye contact. I said what I was looking for. Now, I can't remember who or how size was mentioned first, but I said I wear an 8. I then saw the long pause. I asked him if size 8 is considered Medium, to confirm. Again, the um...uhh...hmmm pause, and I said "they fit tailored, don't they?" That's when he said it. I said I will try 8 since I'm here, and if it doesn't work, I can go to the Mall with your store that carries Large, your Plus size. He then told the employee to help me.

I won't lie, it left a sour taste in my mouth. I had planned on buying an outfit or two to add something new now that I'm back at work from leave. But, I bought a pair of trouser socks, only because I was required to purchase. I would have walked out and not spent a dime if I didn't have to.

My question for all you great shoppers is: How do you write and include this in your report, without identifying yourself? I really struggled with putting it in, because I didn't know how to do it without identifying myself. Would you put the whole conversation, (thus, outing you) and leave it to the client?

"The employee, whom I identified as a manager because of XYZ, seemed reluctant to assist me. I asked him how the sizes corollate, and he suggested that I look for a larger size in another store. I insisted on trying on a pair of tailored slacks, and he told another employee to help me."

[Describe interaction with other employee]

Although it was suggested that I shop at another store, the slacks I tried on were a perfect fit."

I think you can get the flavor of the interaction without including so many details you out yourself.

I've gotten away from including actual quotes unless the form specifically asks for them. I started this after an editor told me to not include quotes. (I had written up a long interaction starting up with the employee telling me, "I'm not going to blow smoke up your butt...".) So far no editor has sent a report back asking for actual quotes.

How about something like this? - The employees were busy straightening up the dressing room area and preparing garments to return to the sales floor. I had to approach them and initiate the interaction. I told them what I was looking for and what size I would need. The manager told me I would need a larger size that was not carried in this location. I asked to try on a garment anyway and he told his associate to help me. The garment did fit properly and although I had intended to purchase them I ended up choosing not to because the interaction did not make me feel like a valued customer.

Honestly he sounds like such a mean spirited person I would think he did this to customers fairly often.

I would totally mention it in the report!

You've got a tougher situation because you said you buy there regularly. I think the above two suggestions of what to say are good ones. Let me see what I would say if I were already a regular customer.


...."The manager and an associate were straightening the return garments in the fitting room area when I came in. Neither approached me to offer assistance, so I walked up to them. When I had the manager's attention, I told him I needed pants (that I actually planned to buy) in a particular size that I have bought there before. The manager said the pants ran slim and suggested I try their other store that carries Plus sizes. I asked to try on the pants anyway and he had the associate help me. Although the pants fit me fine as they always do, I chose not to buy them as the manager's comments about my needing a Plus size (which I didn't) would have caused me to leave the store had I not been on a shop.

The associate was very helpful .... blah blah blah.... After trying on the pants I told her that although I loved the fit, I didn't quite like the color (whatever) so I purchased an inexpensive item to get a receipt and left."

I'm thinking that saying "dress pants" and naming the size might enable them to connect the dots if you ever go in there again. Do you have a recording in case they challenge the report?

So did you try on the pants?