One of my former college coworkers is back in the states working on her Master's. She mystery shopped a bit this fall for companies that did not require a SNN to get paid unless you made more than the $600. She made sure she fell under that amount for this year. However, she'd like to shop more next year but is here on a student visa. Sassie companies have the option to check "do not have ssn" in the profile. What happens if she checks that?

She does not want to check that and get deactivated completely. US companies require their canadian shoppers to put down "canadian" but she's not sure what will happen if she puts down "korean" when she's shopping in the USA.

Input would be helpful. Should she approach the MSC's about this or should she just continue to fly under the radar and stay under $600 in 2015? She is allowed to work off-campus after being here on a student visa for one year but that wouldn't happen until August 2015.

I'm sorry, but if the terms of her visa means she can't work off campus until August 2015, then she should respect that. She is a guest in our country and needs to abide by its rules. If she's making sure to stay under $600 obviously she has no intention of filing a tax return (which would require a TIN, not an SSN).

Tell her to follow the rules or she could lose her visa and her opportunity to go to school here.

From your description of the situation it sounds to me like what your friend is doing is illegal. Giving advice to do something illegal would be at the peril of the person advising and the person they advise. If she is not allowed to work in the US then that is her answer and it does not matter how much she is earning per company or what country she is from. If she decides to go ahead and take a chance she will not get caught then that would be a decision she would have to make on her own. I cannot imagine any company condoning her working for them knowing she is not allowed to work in the US at this time.

once she is officially allowed to work she will need a tax id from
the irs that they give to non citizens on visas. That's the number
she would put in the spot.

She plans on filing taxes because she will apply for resident status in three years in order to get the state resident rate for tuition. she filed taxes during college because she intended on doing a five year program but she actually finished in 3 and a half years. her parents made sure that she had an on-campus job lined up before she arrived back then in order to reduce her tuition in the event that she went straight into a master's program. she was babysitting for cash on the side and recorded that as misc income. We made a lot of money doing psychology and other experiments that paid cash on the spot back then. She claimed that as well. She began her residency application back then and was asked to submit bank statemenst so they saw these cash deposits. she withdrew her application when she received a job offer in hong kong straight out of college.

she's been buying iphone 6's and selling/shipping to asian countries because there is a $300+ profit since these phones cost more over there. the international student liason's office told her that these cash making methods were fine because she's not actually going in and working a shift for an employer outside of her school.

Just incase this information is helpfulf to anyone else...she knew when she reached the max she could make with an MSC without going over $599. She requested three shops to see what would happen and she received an email telling her that she couldn't be assigned anything else for the remainder of the year since they didn't have any tax information on file. Either a notation was made on her account or the sassie system picked it up right away.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2014 02:36AM by AnonymousGirl.

Okay, I don't understand why she was worried about the $600 if she was filing tax returns anyway. To file a tax return, she had to have a Tax Identification Number. Why didn't she just give that to the companies?

dspeakes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Okay, I don't understand why she was worried about
> the $600 if she was filing tax returns anyway. To
> file a tax return, she had to have a Tax
> Identification Number. Why didn't she just give
> that to the companies?


She doesn't have a EIN so she can't hit $600 because the MSC's won't be able to send anything to the IRS and she doesn't want to put them or herself in that predicament. She will file tax returns based on her on-campus job from august-dec, her iphone sales, and the cash that she is making doing on campus experiments and focus groups.

We were just curious because sassie allows you to check a box that states that you don't have a SSN or EIN.

I used to work in a field that would allow us to use the services of people outside the company. We were allowed to use people who did not want to provide any identifying tax information but we withhelf 20 percent of their pay and sent that to the IRS. We sent a 1099 to anyone who did provide tax information and made over $599 with us.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2014 05:13AM by AnonymousGirl.

Something is just not right here -- doesn't ring true.....

anonymousgirl, I am a tax return preparer. She cannot file a return without having a TIN. If she has a TIN for tax preparation, she has a TIN for the 1099 too.

She's making sure she doesn't get a 1099 because she thinks she doesn't have to report it if the IRS doesn't get the 1099.

bestofbothworlds Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Something is just not right here -- doesn't ring
> true.....


what do you feel is false?

All she has to do is apply for a TIN. I've helped people fill that form out. It's easy. If she's allowed to work and wants to work she has to get a TIN. If she's not allowed to work then she shouldn't work for reasons other commenters stated. If she's not allowed to work she has no reason to file an income tax return because, well, it's tax on income. No income means no reason to be taxed. I would advise her to speak to someone at the university who assists foreign students with such matters so she doesn't jeopardize her VISA.

dspeakes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> anonymousgirl, I am a tax return preparer. She
> cannot file a return without having a TIN. If she
> has a TIN for tax preparation, she has a TIN for
> the 1099 too.
>
> She's making sure she doesn't get a 1099 because
> she thinks she doesn't have to report it if the
> IRS doesn't get the 1099.


OK That's where the confusion was. There is one MSC that states on the sassie profile for the MSC to input your SS or Tax ID (EIN) and she can't get an EIN so we thought the EIN was the other option across the board for all MSC's. I will tell her to input her TIN in one and see what happens.

She actually would like a 1099 so that she can pay taxes and make it easier to establish residency in the future. Our state school system requires you to prove that you have been living full time in the state for three years in order to qualify for lower tuition rates. The difference is $30,000+ per year. Filing taxes now will also make it easier for her to become a US Citizen in the future.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2014 04:53AM by AnonymousGirl.

niteflytes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All she has to do is apply for a TIN. I've helped
> people fill that form out. It's easy. If she's
> allowed to work and wants to work she has to get a
> TIN. If she's not allowed to work then she
> shouldn't work for reasons other commenters
> stated. If she's not allowed to work she has no
> reason to file an income tax return because, well,
> it's tax on income. No income means no reason to
> be taxed. I would advise her to speak to someone
> at the university who assists foreign students
> with such matters so she doesn't jeopardize her
> VISA.

She can work but she is not allowed to work outside of the campus until next August. however, an immigration attorney at the international student center told her that other sources of income that don't require her to go work an actual shift are acceptable, which is why mystery shopping is fine. She wanted to babysit/tutor for private families in the surrounding neighborhood but was told that she couldn't do it. The school is in a very wealthy area where homes have estate managers. Those kinds of households always want your tax information and the attorney told her that line of work wouldn't qualify because it was similar to having an actual shift, even if it was just one or two nights a week.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2014 04:59AM by AnonymousGirl.

Can't say much other then don't mess with the IRS.. and maybe don't lie to US officials ever because they will ban you from the USA forever.

"She will file tax returns based on her on-campus job from august-dec, her iphone sales, and the cash that she is making doing on campus experiments and focus groups."

"She actually would like a 1099 so that she can pay taxes and make it easier to establish residency in the future. "

Please make up your mind. Has she been filing taxes or not? Or are you saying she is planning to file taxes for the first time?

She doesn't need a 1099 to include the mystery shopping income on her tax return. Any money she makes should be reported; she can take any legal deductions against that income. If there is a limitation on what she can legally earn in a year she needs to pay attention to that so she doesn't jeopardize her visa. But she needs to limit what she earns, not what she reports. If she's only allowed to earn $5000, she should not earn $6500 and only report $5000. She needs to be sure she only earns $5000.

One thing she does not want to do is run afoul of the tax laws, if her goal is permanent residency or citizenship.

The reason for the laws is because the United States does not want visitors taking jobs from American citizens. The mystery shops she is doing are taking jobs from citizens who might otherwise have done those shops. But because we are not wage employees, there might be different rules. Maybe it only counts if she takes a wage job away, not random contract work. I don't know much about immigration law and even less about limitations on student visas.

But I do know about the tax laws, and whether she gets a 1099 or not does not change what she needs to report on her tax return. If she makes $500 from each of 3 companies, she needs to put $1500 on the tax return even though there are no 1099's. A lot of people think if it's under $600 they don't have to report it. That is not true. If it's under $600 the MSC doesn't have to tell the IRS they paid her, but she still has to report it.

My first line in the first post stated that she was back in the states for college. I then went on to state that she filed during the time that she was here for her undergraduate years. She will file in 2015 based on her work from August 2014-December 31,2 014. I don't understand why you said "make up your mind" when those two statements don't contradict themselves.

She doesn't need the 1099's because she's always claimed every income source, but she would like to earn more. That is why I asked what happens if she checks the "do not have SS/Tax ID" box in her shopper profile. I only asked this because we searched old posts and found one where someone said that she was deactivated after the MSC was unable to verify her SS multiple times. That was actually the point of the thread. She would like to make more than $600 but does not want to do anything that would put her or the MSC in jeapordy.

I don't know if there is a limit on how much she can earn. I don't think there was any during the summers that we worked together and I am basing that on how much I made. I'm sure that she made the same amount. I also remember many of our classmates from china going on gambling binges when we were undegraduates and making a lot of money....we had one classmate who went on a three day bacarrat binge and came out with enough money to buy a brand new car from the lot. That's why i'm almost positive that there is no max to what you can earn under miscellaneous income if you are here on a Visa.

dspeakes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "She will file tax returns based on her on-campus
> job from august-dec, her iphone sales, and the
> cash that she is making doing on campus
> experiments and focus groups."
>
> "She actually would like a 1099 so that she can
> pay taxes and make it easier to establish
> residency in the future. "
>
> Please make up your mind. Has she been filing
> taxes or not? Or are you saying she is planning
> to file taxes for the first time?
>
> She doesn't need a 1099 to include the mystery
> shopping income on her tax return. Any money she
> makes should be reported; she can take any legal
> deductions against that income. If there is a
> limitation on what she can legally earn in a year
> she needs to pay attention to that so she doesn't
> jeopardize her visa. But she needs to limit what
> she earns, not what she reports. If she's only
> allowed to earn $5000, she should not earn $6500
> and only report $5000. She needs to be sure she
> only earns $5000.
>
> One thing she does not want to do is run afoul of
> the tax laws, if her goal is permanent residency
> or citizenship.
>
> The reason for the laws is because the United
> States does not want visitors taking jobs from
> American citizens. The mystery shops she is doing
> are taking jobs from citizens who might otherwise
> have done those shops. But because we are not
> wage employees, there might be different rules.
> Maybe it only counts if she takes a wage job away,
> not random contract work. I don't know much about
> immigration law and even less about limitations on
> student visas.
>
> But I do know about the tax laws, and whether she
> gets a 1099 or not does not change what she needs
> to report on her tax return. If she makes $500
> from each of 3 companies, she needs to put $1500
> on the tax return even though there are no 1099's.
> A lot of people think if it's under $600 they
> don't have to report it. That is not true. If
> it's under $600 the MSC doesn't have to tell the
> IRS they paid her, but she still has to report it.

I interpret the actual question to be, "What happens if my friend alerts mystery shopping companies to the fact that she is working illegally, since "she can work but she is not allowed to work outside of the campus until next August."

This appears to be the answer to your question.


AnonymousGirl, I'm just curious, how does one with a student visa (or an H-1B Visa), which prohibits them from working without losing their visiting student status, file income tax returns?

(heart)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2014 10:18PM by stilllearning.

And to me it sounds very much like she is not legal to work off campus until August. Again it does not matter how much she makes, if she works at a job she is required to report it. Gambling winnings are not a job. She is probably allowed to gamble from what you say. Selling Iphones for profit is also something which I would think is a grey area. Many people do not report profits from online sales but that does not mean this is legal. Many babysitters also work under the table and get cash. This too is illegal but people get away with it. It is the wealthy people who hire babysitters who want to make sure it is all done legally by filing taxes and taking out money because there might be a lot at stake for them if they get caught not paying their babysitter correctly. If she has consulted a tax attorney and gotten the answer that she can work as a mystery shopper I would double check with the IRS. There are those in every profession who will tell you what you want to hear. If she gets caught it is her problem.
To me it sounds like she wants to get away with doing something illegal by staying under the radar. Many people do illegal things. Some get caught but most probably do not. So basically as I and others have said, this sounds illegal and she is putting herself at risk. I do not think any of us want to advise her to do an illegal activity but if she chooses to then she will have to take the consequences if she does get found out.
Just as an aside my nephew who lived in and was born in another country applied for a visa to come back to the US where he grew up...he needed approval from our govt to return. He had had a misdeameanor run in with the law when he was a teenager here in the US. He choose not to reveal that on his visa application. They checked records and found out.
Even though the lawyer said he had a great chance of being approved for the visa even with his record, since they discovered he lied on his application he was told that he could no longer qualify to come back to the US.
You cannot be too careful..Is earning a few hundred dollars worth the risk?

She is allowed to work a job that pays her wages but it has to be within the university system. she gets taxes taken out of her check so she's allowed to file. She was told that any money making activity where she doesn't report for a shift is fine so she technically is not working illegally, she just can't go over $599 with each MSC.

Even when she is allowed to work off-campus, she'll have to get permission first. that's where the confussion was because she'd use her TIN to apply for these off-campus jobs and we both thought that an EIN was the only alternative to a SS number. She's going to the federal building on friday to ask about contract 1099 work. She is a petroleum engineering student so she could be making a lot of money tutoring high school students getting ready to take the SAT. all of the local tutoring companies give their tutors a 1099.

They did tell her that selling online was fine. She has to report it because they will see the paypal deposits into her account. I was able to get a gold iphone 5s when it came out last december and she sold it over there for $2k within hours. There is a lot of money to be made doing that if you are able to get a healthy line of credit with apple or t-mobile,since they are the only two outlets where you can get an unlocked iphone from the factory.

She plans on paying taxes on all of this and that is all the government cares about at the end of the day.

stilllearning Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I interpret the actual question to be, "What
> happens if my friend alerts mystery shopping
> companies to the fact that she is working
> illegally, since "she can work but she is not
> allowed to work outside of the campus until next
> August."
>
> This appears to be the answer to your question.
>
>
> AnonymousGirl, I'm just curious, how does one with
> a student visa (or an H-1B Visa), which prohibits
> them from working without losing their visiting
> student status, file income tax returns?
>
> (heart)

AnonymousGirl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was able to
> get a gold iphone 5s when it came out last
> december and she sold it over there for $2k within
> hours. There is a lot of money to be made doing
> that if you are able to get a healthy line of
> credit with apple or t-mobile,since they are the
> only two outlets where you can get an unlocked
> iphone from the factory.
>

Screw mystery shopping I want in on that business lol

Student visas and H-1B visas are not the same thing. The H-1B is a temporary, non-immigrant work visa. The only similarity is just like someone on a student visa would lose it if they quit going to school, those here on an H-1B can lose their status if they quit the company that sponsored them.

stilllearning Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
a student visa (or an H-1B Visa), which prohibits
> them from working without losing their visiting
> student status, file income tax returns?

If she can make $2000 selling Apples overseas, you'd think Apple would be selling them there itself if it were legal. That alone sounds suspicious.


Anyway, I find the whole thing bizarre. No, you didn't mention that she had filed tax returns when she was here previously.

She needs to get advice from the government regarding what income she can earn on her student visa, and should simply ask the MSC's directly about whether she would be deactivated if she went over $600 by using her TIN.

Nobody here can answer these questions unless they've walked the mile in the same shoes your friend is walking in.

I wish her luck. It's always good when young people have ambition and a willingness to work hard for their money. A lot of American teens want everything handed to them, but immigrant children seem to have that drive to succeed that we have largely lost. I just hope she does it all legally so she doesn't ruin her educational opportunities.

While working as a mystery shopper, your friend is employed illegally. Period, it does not matter whether she makes $10, or $600. Her student visa only authorizes her to work in campus, and only in positions that are not federally funded "work study" positions. If she attends a school that mandates an internship as part of the curriculum, she is allowed to work only during that internship outside of campus. Being a re-seller does not make her as working in the USA, nor is considered income derived in the USA as she is reselling it in Asian countries, where I assume she is a citizen/resident. Now that the USA mandates "tax residence," she will probably have to file taxes and not in the USA. Plus, in many states, if you are on a non-immigrant visa, as all student visas are, then the time you spent in that state does not make you a state resident and does not count as such. These are all illegal activities that are just going to screw up her application for a green card in the future.

This is directly from the USCIS website. A question on many of the MSC registration pages is, "Are you eligible to work in the United States?" It appears her answer to that question should be no thus disqualifying her from MSing regardless of the TIN.

"F-1 students may not work off-campus during the first academic year, but may accept on-campus employment subject to certain conditions and restrictions. There are various programs available for F-1 students to seek off-campus employment, after the first academic year. F-1 students may engage in three types of off-campus employment, after they have been studying for one academic year. These three types of employment are:

Curricular Practical Training (CPT)
Optional Practical Training (OPT) (pre-completion or post-completion)
Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics (STEM) Optional Practical Training Extension (OPT)"

In addition this is one of the requirements for the visa, "You must maintain a residence abroad which he/she has no intention of giving up." I looked at that because of the statement about the student becoming a "resident" of the state in order to qualify for lower tuition. I have no idea how schools work and wonder if it would even be available for someone on a student visa.

dspeakes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If she can make $2000 selling Apples overseas,
> you'd think Apple would be selling them there
> itself if it were legal. That alone sounds
> suspicious.
>


Selling phones for that much the day that they come out is not unheard of even here in the USA. Check the ebay listings the day the Apple Watch goes on sale at the beginning of next year. There are people with a lot of disposable income who do not want to stand in line and are willing to shell out money to those who do. Unlocked phones are also not sold everywhere when they come out. T-Mobile was the only provider in the world to have them on sale the first month. It takes Apple at least a month to release it. If you are a consumer with a certain aount of disposable income, then $2,000 + cost of the phone is not a lot to pay for one of your toys. This is not limited to cell phones...video game consoles and even Nike Jordans can sell for four to five times the amount if you get your hands on them when they first come out. It is a very lucrative business if you actually have the time to stand in line or the credit to front this. It also helps if you are offering kickbacks to an employee at the store. If you are a customerwith $15k worth of constantly revolving credit on your Apple Barclay's card then the store employees will definitely go the extra mile to make sure you receive what you are looking for.

Apple COULD sell the gold iphone for $2,000, but how much would they make? The number of people who can afford that don't outnumber those who can't.That is why a luxury goods company took it upon themselves to take apart an original iphone 6 and cover it with real gold. Their customer base can afford the $7k price tag.

LisaSTL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> In addition this is one of the requirements for
> the visa, "You must maintain a residence abroad
> which he/she has no intention of giving up." I
> looked at that because of the statement about the
> student becoming a "resident" of the state in
> order to qualify for lower tuition. I have no idea
> how schools work and wonder if it would even be
> available for someone on a student visa.


She still has her condo in hong kong so she has a permanent residence there. She has tenants in it right now and has no itention of ever selling it. You can have dual-residency in the US and another country.

AnonymousGirl,
Obviously either your friend or you just do not understand the legal vocabulary.

Maintain residence does not mean that she owns a condo in Hong Kong but this is considered her times/residency/citizenship. Her legal and tax residence is Korea. She is a citizen of Korea. She would be required to file a tax return in the USA based on the tax agreement that the USA ahs with Korea. Her tax and legal residence is not Hong Kong just because she owns an apartment there. Especially because it is rented out it is just an investment.

"She is allowed to work a job that pays her wages but it has to be within the university system. she gets taxes taken out of her check so she's allowed to file. She was told that any money making activity where she doesn't report for a shift is fine so she technically is not working illegally, she just can't go over $599 with each MSC. "

Obviously your friend does not understand this. She is not allowed to work on anything shift, or independent contractor, outside the campus. Doing babysitting is independent contractor, just like mystery shopping. Being a reseller is not a job, just income from activity. Also, when the income is under $599 the MSC is not mandated to report it, but it does not mean that it will not. I had mine reported from Second to None for $200. Because the companies do it electronically nowadays, for many companies it is easier to just sent all info to IRS.

"She actually would like a 1099 so that she can pay taxes and make it easier to establish residency in the future. Our state school system requires you to prove that you have been living full time in the state for three years in order to qualify for lower tuition rates. The difference is $30,000+ per year. Filing taxes now will also make it easier for her to become a US Citizen in the future."

Wrong again. It will just show that while she was on a student visa, she engaged in illegal work. It would had helped only if she was an illegal alien to prove that she has been inside the country during certain years required for an amnesty. Again as I said, for many states if you are on a student visa, the years you are present in the state do not count for residency.

CA for example (and it is the same for TX):
An adult alien is classified as a California resident for tuition purposes if he or she has lived in California for more than one year immediately prior to the residence determination date, and during that time he or she has demonstrated the intent to remain permanently in California. Starting in fall 1993, students must also prove financial independence.

Resident status is not available to aliens whose presence in California is solely for educational purposes, or to those aliens who hold the following types of visas:
B-1, B-2 Visitors for business or pleasure
C Aliens in transit
D-1, D-2 Alien crew member
F-1, F-2 Academic students and their spouse and children
H-2, H-3 Temporary workers and trainees and their spouse and children
J-1, J-2 Exchange visitors and their spouse and children
M-1, M-2 Nonacademic or vocational students and their spouse and children
O-2 Alien accompanying and assisting an O-1; spouse and children of an O-1 or O-2
P Internationally recognized athlete, artist or entertainer, and their spouse and children
Q International cultural exchange program
TN,TD NAFTA professionals and their spouse and children

or Florida:
Has the intent of residing in Florida for the required minimum 12 month period been for the purpose of maintaining a bona fide domicile rather than for the purpose of enrollment in an institution of higher education?

A student who comes to Florida to enroll full-time in a state university as an out-of-state resident and continuously enrolls in a state university will not normally meet the Florida residency requirements for in-state tuition regardless of the length of time enrolled.

Even if one is a US citizen and have been living abroad, the state of residence is the state his parents last resided in and can not just go to another state where he feels like and say that's my state now, let me pay in-state tuition.

AnonymousGirl, what is a "dual residency?" If you are referring to dual residency in relation to the IRS and income taxes, it is separate from immigration.

In order to be in this country legally one has to be a naturalized citizen, a Legal Permanent Resident (ie, green card holder) or on some type of visa, either immigrant or non-immigrant. Permanent residence is one of the litmus tests for issuing non-immigrant visas including student, visitor and most employment visas. Immigrant visas are issued for fiances traveling to the U.S. to marry a citizen and immigrating family members of Legal Permanent Residents.

The bottom line, if your friend is working she is doing so illegally and violating the conditions of her visa. If she is stating on MSC registrations she is eligible to work in this country she is lying. I'm not sure who she spoke to that gave her the misinformation about what types of work she could do, but I'm doubting it was an actual immigration attorney. If she has money and can afford one, it would be a good idea before she gets caught.

Do you mean dual citizenship? There is no dual residency. You can only have one residency and one tax residency, and that is Korea for your friend, because the time she is in the USA while on a non-immigrant visa like F-1, it is not considered as being residency. I do the taxes for a friend who lives overseas and I am extremely well versed on the subject. One place is the residency and if you have income in another country as well then you pay taxes in that country as a non-resident, just like any foreigner with an F-1 visa is mandated to do. Your friend doe snot file the same forms as a US citizen or permanent resident, but the form for non-resident alien. Actually in the application for a green card they ask whether you voted in the elections and whether you have filed as a resident (which are both illegal to do).

Just like if you earned income from a non-passive activity in two states, you can not declare a homestead in both states. You pick one and that is the state where you vote and have legal residency for tuition, etc, but this is only for US citizens and those on an immigrant visa (green card).

I assume your friend is in CA? I posted above the requirement for CA and it explicitly states that while on an F-1 the time does not count for residency. Otherwise there would be thousand of people coming to CA waiting for a few years and then asking for in-state tuition.