Tonya.......thanks for your response. If the companies would jusy cover mileage, they would have a lot more takers. Take Houston for example. easily 60 miles from one side to anotherand traffic is always heavy. SO......a $10 fee shop ( unless it's next door) is just not too smart. But I would be the first to admit that there is just no practical way to bying them together to pay some standard rate. Even .35 a mile would make some of these very possible. When I mention it, the standard answer back is,"Not our policy". Any ideas?

Gas just went up...in L.A. it's now close to 4 bucks.....they need to kick in after 25 miles.

When you sign up with an MSP they usually ask how far you are willing to travel. I always say 30 miles because I will take an exceptional shop that far away, but not a routine one or an orphan shop. This give me the flexibility when they start asking for shops more distant to say "Because of the time and distance involved I would need to charge you $X" Often I don't get the job and I'm sure some of the schedulers must think I'm nuts. But there is little reason EVER to drive 60 miles for a $10 shop. Generally they don't want a breakdown of the mileage cost and the fee cost, I just state it as a flat fee amount needed to do the job and of course if there is a reimbursement, that stays as originally offered. Everybody needs to be on the same page when it comes to accepting shops because if you goof and think the shop is 15 miles away when it really is 60, that is your problem and they are not going to help you out once you have accepted the job.

I have also suggested the following: "You have X shops in city 1, city 2 and city 3. They are 35, 55 and 65 miles away from me. If you will let me do all 3 in the same day, I will charge you $A for the first, $B for the second and $C for the third, which spreads the cost of going all the way to city 3. If I can't do all 3 in the same trip then city 1 would be $D, city 2 would be $E and city 3 would be $F." This seems too complicated for most schedulers to follow or else they are playing dumb because they most often offer me the one job in the city 65 miles away for the single suggested fee for the city 35 miles away. I just respond, "That is not economically feasible. Separately I can do city 3 for $F because it would be a trip solely to do that one shop."

Negotiation is the key in this and be reasonable but be fair to yourself.

I think some shoppers aren't aware they can negotiate. I just learned that from you yesterday, a few hours too late.

It is all part of the learning process and certainly some times you will negotiate yourself out of a job, but do you really want to drive all the way to Albany for a $35 job when a blizzard is forecast to hit in a few hours?

It makes sense to use something like Jobslinger.com to see what communities are within 5 miles of your zip code, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40 etc. I have my list (on the computer of course, as are all my other documents) of places I get solicited for that could be feasible if the price was right. When I'm asked if I can go do a shop in Marathon, I laugh and say, hmm 250 miles away and 9 hours on a good day. I would have to charge you around $500 to do the job. Now if they want to negotiate I probably would be willing to do it for $450, but the reality is that I don't want to go down there and they really need to be soliciting shoppers who are closer to the work site. Some day I may be surprised and they may take me up on it, but they obviously have no concept of how long Florida is (which I guess is valid if you were born and raised in CT or MA and have never been out to see the world).

Florida is looooooooooooooooooooooong.

Mileage isn't just distance. It's how long you sit in traffic and watch the gas gauge go down. I keep getting jobs in the 5 boroughs of NYC. In theory they're all less than 30 miles, but go into the city to do a job?. Go through the Bronx and Manhattan to get to Brooklyn? Cross the Bronx and the Triboro Bridge to get to Queens? Spend $30 on parking to do a $10 job? I was sent a cheery email from a scheduler who announced my first shop for her would be at a Staples in Manhattan. I had to disappoint her.

As the crow flies, I could cross Long Island Sound to get to L.I., but there's no way I can take a job there. The trip would take me through 3 boroughs and a few bridges and get me there 4 hours later on the L.I. Expressway, dubbed "The Longest Parking Lot in the World."

In the western direction, I would have to take the bridge and an hour or two of bumper-to-bumper traffic to do those handy nearby jobs in NJ.

Anyone who lives in a major metro area will understand this conundrum.

So my 30-mile rule doesn't work very well here. I have to reject far more jobs than I can take. I will do some 30 miles north of me if I can group them together.

I also have my little lists. 3 zip codes in the Bronx that are safe for both me and my car, one of them only in the daytime. LOL.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2008 05:47AM by sneakers.

Having lived in NYC and in Chicago in the past I know it certainly is important to know the areas that are and aren't safe, are and aren't readily accessible etc. Luckily there is only one area around me that is unsafe dusk to dawn. While I would stick out like a sore thumb at other times of day, I would be safe. And interestingly as the economy worsens, it is at the major urban mall that you are relatively unsafe now during the day with purse snatchings and shove downs. The suburban malls are still fine.

As gas increases in cost, it is important to consider the mileage you get because we really do want to be profitable. IRS will allow you to deduct 50.5 cents per mile for business travel in 2008. What this means to you is that as far as IRS is concerned, if you do a $15 job 15 miles away, you are operating at a loss. (15 miles round trip is 30 miles, 30 x $.505= $15.15 for a $15 job is a $.15 loss.) We deal with a shorter reality than IRS because as shoppers we think in terms of miles per gallon versus miles per vehicle lifetime. So we think more along the lines of "my vehicle gets 18 mpg, so a 30 mile round trip will take 1 2/3 gallons of gas, which at $4 per gallon will cost me about $6.70." Most of us don't consciously think in terms of the time involved but rather the distance.

Whenever we can bundle together jobs as a route it is probably to our advantage, but perhaps even more important is making our personal stops en route so that we don't have to drive that way again on personal errands. To some extent I try to take that to the logical conclusion--I need to be somewhere at 11AM for an appointment on Tuesday, what shops can take me there that can be done before 11 and what can I do on the way home that can be done anytime during the afternoon?

Mileage is a problem and they need to realize we are making less than the average $10.00. I am going to start to ask for help with gas (and what about wear and tear on my new car) if it is more than 20 miles one way.... 50% of my jobs are 25 miles one way. I'm going to see if I can deduct miles from taxes. I keep a gas log in the car, and write down job, distance, etc. Anyone know about this, I'll find out next week. The other thing is I get jobs emailed to me that are in Northern California, a mere 400+ miles away. This must be computer generated by state. I won't blame that on them. The good thing about L.A., is no toll bridges, that's why they call them freeway's. lol

I did an oil change yesterday, happy for the generous reimbursement, believe me. I waited 35 minutes and then it was done in 8 minutes. No one pays for that time or the report. Getting a little picky this morning as I discover I made a measly 400.00 this month...seems I'm working alot...oy vey. Love this forum, feel better already.

Flash, What is an orphan shop? I say on my application, I will drive 30 miles one way.....also, and I do for any job that I think I will like. I also try and get myself a lunch, that way I figure it's enjoyment as well and worth it.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2008 03:27PM by shop 4 u.

Flash, Great info. on the IRS and gas mileage...learned something, keep on talking your a smart guy, but you need to be certified.

I should be "certified" for being a mystery shopper, but not by the MSPA

An "orphan shop" is a single shop out somewhere where you don't/didn't plan to go or need to go anyway. Because any/all mileage and time necessary to do the shop belongs solely to that shop, for it to be profitable the shop would need to pay more than it would if it was part of a string or route of shops you were doing on a particular trip.

Orphan shops are generally not the scheduler's problem unless they are asking on short notice for you to drop everything and GO. My gas station 60+ miles away on Tuesday was arranged and scheduled such that I had about 15 minutes to get out of the house and on my way to do it if I was going to beat the deadline. On that short notice there is no time to even review the instructions meaningfully, much less find other shops and read instructions for them meaningfully before you need to be on your way. And obviously you wouldn't schedule jobs out that way in hopes that you would be offered a last minute shop. So a scheduler has to realize that it is not just greed that makes you name an outrageous sounding price, it is a business reality.

And on IRS and mileage. There are two ways you can do it but you must be consistent year after year. The first is to actually work out the annual depreciation of the vehicle, keep track of costs of fuel and maintenance and repairs and licensing and insurance and all the whoopla. Then you figure what percentage of use of your vehicle was personal and what percentage was for business. You can take the business percentage of your overall costs. (To figure the business versus personal mileage you must keep tabs of mileage for the full year and mileage for business, and you need to do this for either method you choose.)

The second way is mileage, where you simply keep track of the business miles travelled. For those of us who don't have a job other than mystery shopping from our home base, this is straightforward. From backing out of the driveway until we turn off the ignition when we return home. For those who do shops on their way to or from working another job, they must figure their "commuting miles" are not deductible and need to read that information in the IRS bulletins closely.

For the 2007 tax year, business mileage was figured at 48.5 cents per mile. For 2008 it is 50.5 cents per mile. If gas keeps going up in price I'm sure the 2009 deduction will be even higher.

IRS also allows you to deduct tolls and parking for your jobs. I see bridge tolls in my area and parking meters ranging from 5 cents to 25 cents for the fifteen or twenty minutes needed to do most shops. This is in addition to the mileage expense.

I prefer the mileage because it is simpler, my vehicle rarely needs repair, my routine maintenance is mostly done by shops, some of my gas is done by shops, etc. I would personally be uncomfortable claiming the $39 oil change reimbursement as a business expense and then turning around and calling it also a vehicle expense if I was using the percentage of personal/business actual expenses method. Similarly since my vehicle is almost 10 years old there would be little depreciable value left to it. But even with a brand new vehicle, after a couple of years the depreciable value would drop such that mileage would be the better way to claim the deduction but you would have been "locked" in to the actual expense method if you had chosen that.

Flash doesn't need any certification, shop 4 u. She's indeed certifiable and not a guy.

I have mostly orphan shops so far because I have to reject so many of them (see above for reason.) The shops I take don't always come out on the same day, or if they do, they're miles apart. I find this discouraging.

I've been using the same mechanic for 30 years. I won't go into a strange place to have my oil done, no more than I would go to a totally unknown doctor. Do you know if these guys are using the best quality oil and filters?

I do know what oil they use. It is the same as my Honda dealership, as I found out. They are a top franchise in L.A. They claim to do the oil change quicker, everything else is the same, they just have low overhead. I wouldn't do repairs, only a oil change. The synthentic oil is what is recommended for my car by my dealership, gives more gas mileage and only needs to be changed every 5,000 miles as opposed to the convential oil that needs to be changed every 3,000 miles. Will now stop arguing with Flash over certification, although a good argument tends to open up your mind, and I do it with respect hoping to learn from it. Hard feelings is not my intent. Peace and on with shopping.

I do know what oil they use. It is the same as my Honda dealership, as I found out. They are a top franchise in L.A. They claim to do the oil change quicker, everything else is the same, they just have low overhead. I wouldn't do repairs, only a oil change. The synthentic oil is what is recommended for my car by my dealership, gives more gas mileage and only needs to be changed every 5,000 miles as opposed to the convential oil that needs to be changed every 3,000 miles. Will now stop arguing with Flash over certification, although a good argument tends to open up your mind, and I do it with respect hoping to learn from it. Hard feelings is not my intent. Peace and on with shopping.

Thanks Flash for the above info., it helps. I did an orphan shop today in Bev. Hills...an upscale garden shop bought a plant, had lunch and got a whopping 15 bucks, spent 25, but didn't have to pay for parking as it is free on Sundays....nice day.

Then there's parking. An upscale indoor mall near me charges $2.50 and up to park. Not much profit in those shops, although they're upscale stores. You can start using up your time just walking to the store in this huge mall. Another starts its virtual meter at $1.25.

Flash, do you think under those circumstances I should request parking expenses in advance? Doesn't hurt, right?

There are some companies that will allow a request for extra pay for parking and such with a normal shop request. But if the shop is too cheap to do without the extra, shed no tears if they don't honor a request. I rarely have that problem here so there is no reason/excuse to ask for additional, but I still won't fight the mall for a $10 shop (unless it is Godiva, which I do a bunch of mall shops and include from time to time. The reimbursement from that is adequate for 4 truffles )

Our little Honda Civic Hybrid will not be going to Jiffy Lube or similar places because of its special needs. I gather that there is a streamlining plate under the vehicle to help with mileage and even if the station had the proper oil and filters I still wouldn't want them messing with that. It will go to the dealership--and the dealership in the next county is half the price of the dealership here so I will just schedule some shops up that way to make the trip a deductible expense.

On the other hand, my Ford truck is indulged with oil every 3 months and the oil hasn't even lost its clear glow yet. It is a vehicle designed for home mechanic to easily do an oil change so the worst that has been done to it was the idiot who stripped the plug and got to replace it. (Ford plugs are soft so you strip the $2.99 plug rather than mess up the threads on the vehicle itself.) But a note to the wise--the oil shops they mostly send us to make their money on the "additional repairs" they recommend and part of the job is to see just how pushy they are. I have enjoyed being told that the wiper blades I replaced myself the previous week are "old and deteriorated" and that my coolant is "sludge" within a month of having the system flushed a couple of thousand miles before its regular service date because I was having another service done at the same time. My air filter is inevitably "bad" and they can replace it for $24.99, though my air filter is a "permanent filter" which gets routinely cleaned and reprepped for service. So make notes of all the services "recommended" and tell them that you need to discuss it with your "husband" or "wife" because it is his or her car.

Good advice for the unwary.

When I do an oil change at my mechanic, whom I know 30 years, he also does lube, checks belts, all liquids, tire pressure, bad bulbs, all for same $27. He tries to catch anything legitimate before it causes trouble. It's just part of his routine, and I think most honest mechanics (there's an oxymoron for you!) He even sent me to a friend at Meineke last time because I couldn't afford his price on a major exhaust job. I saved many hundreds.

So I'll skip the oil change places.

About malls, are there MSC's who do combos of several shops in one mall? Or do YOU just put them together?

- one of those oil change places told me once that I needed my transmission fluid changed because it was really dirty and thick - and was going to ruin my automatic transmission - - - IT WAS A STANDARD TRANSMISSION!

I wouldn't fall for that stuff either, but the problem is their OMISSIONS, the general checkup my mechanic does.

Getting back to the original topic, next time I want an out-of-the-way job at month's end, I'll mention a little gas bonus.

It never hurts to suggest that a bonus for gas, especially for out of the way places, might be the incentive needed to accept the job. You don't want to hold them for ransom over a couple of bucks because of the "I'll scratch your back, you scratch mine" philosophy. So I don't usually state it as "gas" or "tolls" but if I want about $3 to cover the tolls and/or gas am likely to say, when they offer it at $15, "I really can't do that at $15, but perhaps $19?" and settle for $18. Try to make everybody "win".

I don't know who you guys shop for, but, in Los Angeles, California where jobs and shoppers are plentiful, we don't have a barter system. If you keep begging for 2 dollars more, there is someone that will do it for their price. We just don't play that game. I have my pride and they have their price. The end of the month, they put out a bonus on there own. Thank G--. Remember, you can always say no, if the pay is too low....and move on.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2008 08:51PM by shop 4 u.

Might want to give it a try. Know shoppers in southern California from other forums who do negotiate bonuses with their schedulers on a regular basis. There may be a lot of shoppers out there, but there are also a heck of a lot of jobs available.

Sneakers....I am leaving this forum, as it has become a dialog between you and Flash....you put others down, and I feel this has now become a waste of time. I recommend you just call Flash and discuss your personal issues with msing.......

Flash, You seem to know it all, so, I can no longer add to your expertise. Good luck and I sincerely hope your boyfriend will recover 100%. What seems to be lacking is humor when it is what is is, shopping. Bye all.