At this point they would be better off using that 10% to pay off debt. The problem is they would just find something else to do with that 10%. I'm guessing they will have little interest in mystery shopping, but that's just a guess.

Perhaps you should introduce them to Dave Ramsey.

@LisaSTL wrote:

How in the hell do two people with student loan debt of $650 per month justify spending $1,000 on car payments?! That doesn't even take into consideration the higher insurance rates. Maybe they should be looking at a refund on those college degrees.

If they could afford it (aka maintaining a sufficient NET INCOME = Income - Expenses, Debts, Bills, etc.), why does it matter if they're spending $1,000 on car payments?

@bgriffin wrote:

At this point they would be better off using that 10% to pay off debt. The problem is they would just find something else to do with that 10%. I'm guessing they will have little interest in mystery shopping, but that's just a guess.

Perhaps you should introduce them to Dave Ramsey.

You gotta pick and choose when listening to Dave Ramsey. Some of his views are backwards and not the most efficient.

You must not have read all of ceasesmith's posts. These two are living paycheck to paycheck, not setting aside money for emergencies and paying the minimum on their student loan debt. They have children so it will not just be the irresponsible adults who suffer if one of them should lose their job.

@Tarantado wrote:

You gotta pick and choose when listening to Dave Ramsey. Some of his views are backwards and not the most efficient.

Dave will be the first to tell you some of his recommendations are inefficient. The problem is that most people who find themselves in debt are not the ones who can do things in the most efficient way. Human nature and mathematics are not always mutually inclusive.

I'll give a personal example. I am horrible at budgeting. Long before I heard of Dave and his envelope system I learned that I had to separate my money. I have always operated with 2 checking accounts. One for bills only that has everything auto paid, and the other for actually spending money. If I don't do that I spend too much money and then I can't pay my phone bill. Now many people can do it all out of one account and still know how much they can spend. I do not have that skill. Yes it's simple math. Yes I AP'd out of college calculus. I still can't do it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2017 07:15PM by bgriffin.

Listening to Dave Ramsey is why they were paying off the student loan debt before his car broke down and before the family grew. Listening to Dave is what convinced them to buy the low-miles, 3 year old used SUV instead of a new one. Dave gives some EXCELLENT advice, but as stated above, you have to pick and choose.

They REALLY need to get back on track. I think their biggest mistake was moving to a high cost-of-living area; they made the same money here, and their mortgage payment was only $540 a month for a 5-bedroom,
3 bathroom home! I know for sure if they continue making minimum payments on the student loans, it could be a lifetime debt. Very, very little goes on principal when you make only minimum payment!

Excellent response's by our senior shoppers. I want to add different locations depend on how much we make.
Rural locations can afford to pay more, give bonus, etc., while cities with many shoppers can skimp, not offering a bonus like Los Angeles, where shoppers are all over (literally). I had to go to Best Buy to get a reward, so while there I did a 15.00 job which took another 10 minutes. I would have done it for 10.00,
I was there anyway. Your account of "why should we take low paying jobs" differs with every shopper, we make our schedules. There is also a trust issue with new shoppers who do not understand how to make the best of low paying shops, it all takes time...taking 4 or more jobs while in the mall, is the way to do it, not just going out for one $5 or 10 job. Independent Contractors are just that, independent. Figuring reimbursements, oil changes, food and stuff adds up. getting what adds to your living requirements is an important element, you lose your individually being run by a group. There will always be someone to do really low paying jobs, and I say let them, they need it . Those that know how and are able to ask and get big bonus's, more power to you (BJ). Someone even mentioned Unions awhile back, crazy thinking.
The Op should check back and read that thread. I do this because it is something that caters to my needs,
having that 200.00 dinner now and then is right up my alley!!!!

@Tarantado wrote:

@ceasesmith wrote:

What's the worry about getting placed in a higher tax bracket? I never understood why people worry about it so much. In the end, only the portion of income falling into the higher tax bracket will be taxed at the higher tax rate, while all remaining income will be taxed at the rate it's in on the tax bracket. In short, you'll still have more money in the end, rather than not getting that money at all... Or am I missing something?

Here is my answer to the above...In a job where you are working for someone else you generally do not have the choice to accept reimbursement for your oil changes etc in lieu of pay. I constantly hear people saying they do not want a raise as their taxes will go up. That statement in that case makes no sense like you said. However, in mystery shopping it makes sense not to get into a higher tax bracket by choosing reimbursement over fees. I myself am in that situation. I have a regular paycheck job and mystery shopping for fees would be taxed at a fairly high rate. I am in a high tax state too so that would be a double whammy on the fees. But my reimbursements are not taxed so the value I get out of them is saving 100% (if it is a needed and/or wanted item) of my post tax income from my other job that I would have otherwise used for purchasing the same item without a mystery shop. I do not have much mileage but even the relatively small number of miles I drive to shops offsets much of the income tax on the smaller fees I get from mystery shopping reimbursement shops when I can find them.

I would not really call these kids of yours the typical person one imagines when one says they are living paycheck to paycheck. No, instead of that I would call them people living beyond their means. Two high salaries and expenses where they have nothing left (oh but then you say they are socking away money into their 401 K so actually no they are not at all living paycheck to paycheck.)
I think instead of having your daughter with a young baby and a full time job run around from grocery store to grocery store and do reports to pay for a few dollars worth of groceries each time her time would be better spent eating home a few more times a month so they can put some money aside in an emergency fund for the next time a car breaks down or something else happens. And from where I sit, their expenses are modest...that mortgage would not pay for a garage let alone a house where I live but many people figure out how to do it.
I would say if they really eat out a lot perhaps rather than running around to grocery stores and gas stations (and perhaps paying the babysitter for an extra hour every day to do it on the way home from work) they would be better served to do one or two nice restaurant jobs a month..that way they can hire a babysitter for only a couple of hours, have an enjoyable meal which sounds like their preference and get the huge savings on that reimbursement all at once...or better yet do not mystery shop at all with two well paying jobs and a baby to go home to but make a sandwich or salad for lunch a few times a week...cut out a few bar visits a week...that alcohol purchased out of your home really adds up..plus the tip and tax on it too...(they may not drink..i am not assuming they do just throwing that in case). They really need to chart their expenses for a month or two and see how much they really are spending on individual categories. Most people have no idea how much a latte a day or a bar tab twice a week can add up to, let alone lunch and coffee out every single day you are at work or even 3 days per week. Their real stress is in front of them if they keep this up...as soon as they need a new roof etc and have no savings.
PS I have been trying to teach my daughter these lessons but to no avail so far...unfortunately she does not have a high paying job to go with the eating out lifestyle. Maybe your two will wake up to what they are doing to their future!

@ceasesmith wrote:

Yeah, I know. Unfortunately, they are "living the good life", but actually struggling paycheck to paycheck.
They HAD two cars that were paid in full, but then his car broke down, so they bought a new one. Then the family grew, so the sedan she was driving was no longer reasonable, so they got an SUV. They did their homework, used Consumer Reports used car buying guide, got a 3 year old high-end SUV that still cost
$25,000 used. They put a reasonable down ($9,000) and financed the rest.

Yes. They spend more on their cars and eating out than I live on.

Myself, I couldn't bear the stress. I would have paid off the student loans and paid the $9,000 cash for a good used vehicle.

They aren't total idiots -- they both sock away 10% of their salaries into 40l(k)s; they bought the SUV used and made sure the warranty was good for another 60,000 miles (it was low miles for 3 years old), and it's the safety rated highest on the market.

I'm looking forward to showing them how shopping would at LEAST let them get that student debt paid. If I understand them right, the $650 is just the absolute minimum payment. They were paying twice that before buying the cars; they don't seem to comprehend why the balance of the loan is reducing so slowly now they are only making the minimum payment.

Edited to throw in that I wrote my statements before I finished reading the thread and saw some other posters posted some similar thoughts...but I will leave my statements in as they may have a somewhat different slant.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2017 03:51AM by sandyf.

I'm glad you left your comments in, sandyf. I disagree only on semantics: if it's Tuesday, and payday is Friday, and you literally don't have lunch money until the paycheck arrives, you ARE struggling from paycheck to paycheck.

When I was their age and accumulated some debt, I worked FIVE jobs till I had the debt paid off. They are young and healthy; there's no reason at all both of them couldn't add a half-hour to their working day to pick up groceries, or do a quick gas-station shop. With apps, they could complete them on-site. I mapped the grocery stores; none are more than 1 block out of the way to work, or on the way home from work. Even if she uses the shop to pick up a pre-made sandwich or salad for lunch, that's 2 birds with one stone -- saving on eating out, a small payment, and a non-taxable reimbursement.

You are SO right about people not being aware of the actual cost of that "quick lunch -- I'm too tired to pack something" or the fancy latte. Or regularly picking up dinner on the way home "I don't have time to cook".

I hope to make a believer out of her and her hubby this trip. I have scheduled one very nice dinner to show them it CAN be done.

ceasesmith, I hope your guidance helps them. I know you've helped me with your insights on this board.

Thank you. You are very kind.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

There may be a difference in need. Some shoppers do not "need" revenue from this business as much as they enjoy the tasks, perceived perks, or use of skills. Some people have done this work for years because it is interesting, uses a different skill set, provides a perk, or something that is not related to primary income. (Recently, I saw a successful salesperson doing a grocery store shop. They do not money. They need something to do, now that their kids are in college and they are more aware that don't like their spouse very much.)

All people do not not value this work only according to money and a need for at least minimum wage. Some have other revenue and can be in this industry for other reasons.

Must money be the only consideration for all shoppers?

Would anyone do the shops for free by chance?

If so, I hope they don't live near me!

To quote myself, I don't donate time to for profit businesses

The kids are on the right track by living in an affluent area, as property values rise, crime is lower, schools are better. I spend too much, most of us do and while you have it, it's easy thinking this will continue forever. Saving is important, yes, but I think Mama is overly concerned. When I bought my car, I bought a good one,
15 years later, still a good car, much better made than those today. My daughter does well, saves, but travel's
all the time. I'd never tell her not too. When it occurs to them to try and pay off this loan, they will...we all do things when we're ready, thank G__ they're both working, and as my signature says, "When you know better, you do better"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2017 06:35PM by Irene_L.A..

I spent last night compiling my MS income for the accountant so she can prepare taxes for the various businesses my family has.

I'm going to get ripped a brand new orifice from other members of the family. My income is nothing to brag about if you spread it out over 365 days. This is a recurring complaint with my family. Bless the accountant, she works with others who MS and she's amazed that I earn enough to have 1099's issued. She also sees the total of my reimbursements and comments it's a good thing I don't need to report them as income.

I will admit I could work smarter, especially with the mileage I pile on my car. But, honestly I love my days where I can leave the house at 4am and take my time. This time of year I see calves, foals, kids and lambs having a blast, as all babies love to do when they figure it out.. I purposely slow down by a pecan grove to check out the chickens. I used to raise chickens. Their intelligent factor is questionable, but I never seen a dead one on the side of the highway as they peck on the berm for bugs.

My shops are planned around grocery sales, the best areas to buy in season vegetables and fruits. It's not unusual for a neighbor to call and ask if I can grab something that is only found in the border towns of TX. Whether they help out with gas is immaterial, because I normally find a great new place to save money for garden supplies, groceries, etc.


Monetarily, I'm not getting rich. I'm tearing up my car. But there is nothing prettier driving into Leakey or Corpus Christie TX as the sun rises or sets. TX is starting the wildflower season early; my eyes itch and burn. I almost certain this will be one of the years where I experience laryngitis, but I don't care. The flowers are too pretty and that's why allergy meds were discovered.

Speaking of TX, spring storms have sprung and I have go put my car in the garage so it doesn't get any hail damage.

So far in my less than 3 years of mystery shopping, I've found that if I want more money; I need to prove myself. Good companies appreciate shoppers who live up to their word and complete work correctly and responsibly.

Hi Ceasesmith, I get where you are coming from and yes it is semantics. The modern definition of living paycheck to paycheck has changed from the traditional. And I get your worries. No one wants themselves or their child to be in a situation where if just one irregular thing happens they are thrown into a financial hole. But in the case of your family they can do something about the situation if they become aware and are willing to change. They do however have to wake up to the fact that they are keeping a spigot open too far after getting each paycheck. Almost no one has endless money no matter their income. I read about extremely wealthy people all the time who are in debt but then find out they have a house or two on every continent and several private jets. I have seen ads for penthouse nightly rentals for tens of thousands of dollars. It becomes a matter of knowing when to stop and to pick and choose where to spend your money. No matter how big the price tag can be for your situation there is always a time when it is too big for you to handle. Scaling back a little on some of the daily habits that are draining money can make a big difference. I mentioned my daughter. She told me she often will go to Costco and purchase a pizza and then take a slice most days to work that she heats up in the breakroom. She could instead run across the street from work and buy a sandwich and a drink at a fast food but this way she saves about $4-5 a day from what she was doing. She is far from perfecting her ability to not spend money she does not have but it is a start. For her $4-5 a day is very significant in her income category.
I googled paycheck to paycheck and found some fascinating takes on what that means for different people. All of them seemed to agree though that it is not a good situation to be in...which we all already know. But most of them did think it came from overspending for most of the population having that issue. Those who just don't earn enough to cover the basics have it much worse. We do in the last few decades have a very different definition of basics than there used to be. A starbucks or similar every morning has moved into the basics category above the rent in priority for some people. But then suddenly when the first is nearing the rent has moved up to the top of the list again.

@ceasesmith wrote:

I'm glad you left your comments in, sandyf. I disagree only on semantics: if it's Tuesday, and payday is Friday, and you literally don't have lunch money until the paycheck arrives, you ARE struggling from paycheck to paycheck.

When I was their age and accumulated some debt, I worked FIVE jobs till I had the debt paid off. They are young and healthy; there's no reason at all both of them couldn't add a half-hour to their working day to pick up groceries, or do a quick gas-station shop. With apps, they could complete them on-site. I mapped the grocery stores; none are more than 1 block out of the way to work, or on the way home from work. Even if she uses the shop to pick up a pre-made sandwich or salad for lunch, that's 2 birds with one stone -- saving on eating out, a small payment, and a non-taxable reimbursement.

You are SO right about people not being aware of the actual cost of that "quick lunch -- I'm too tired to pack something" or the fancy latte. Or regularly picking up dinner on the way home "I don't have time to cook".

I hope to make a believer out of her and her hubby this trip. I have scheduled one very nice dinner to show them it CAN be done.

Are all parents this involved in their ADULT children's' finances? Reading some of these posts baffles the mind. My parents don't know how much I make or how much I owe (or don't owe.) They know what kind of car I drive but they don't know how much I paid for it.

I've found people who do not know where their money is going tend to think of all those "small" daily expenditures over the short term. Lunch is only $4 or $5. OTOH, $5 a day Monday through Friday for 50 weeks a year is $1,250. I'm not implying nobody should ever go to lunch or grab a Starbuck's, but sometimes looking at the big picture can help when deciding if all the little extras are truly worthwhile.

Impulse's are a trait we all have. I eat out alot, and cook in alot. MS'ing helps with eating out, and able to enjoy life. When I wasn't doing it, I ate out with a friend a couple times a week. Being the social thing to do,
it's easy to get carried away. Personally I think money is wasted on much more than a 10$ lunch. False finger nails, hair coloring, sales where you buy not because you love it, just because it's on sale. I got over that one
but was guilty big time. Spending makes you feel important. My daughters boss wrote a published book,
"Is that all there is", overcoming addiction and it makes you aware of what your doing, hence, once your aware, you can change. There are honest ways we don't have money, high cost of living, raises in taxes, dental work,
illness, life happens and sometimes we can't predict what will happen. Being critical of a person going through difficult times does't help anyone, and does anyone really listen to anyone?

@Sybil2 wrote:

Are all parents this involved in their ADULT children's' finances? Reading some of these posts baffles the mind. My parents don't know how much I make or how much I owe (or don't owe.) They know what kind of car I drive but they don't know how much I paid for it.

Well, I just don't know. I have 2 boys and the girl is my "baby"; my oldest is over 50, my middle boy is in his late 30's, and "baby" just turned 29. When I'm 82 and she's 40, she'll still be my "baby". Funny, though, since you mentioned that -- I don't know what kind of car either son drives! Or what my sons make. Heck, I don't even
understand what my middle son DOES (something tekkie). (Or is that "techie"?) I only have one daughter. She sure knows what I make (or don't make!), what I drive, etc. OTOH, she may not know that my favorite food is banana splits, my favorite movie is Casablanca, and what party I'm a registered voter with. I have grandchildren older than my daughter.

I know she's an adult, happily married, with her own family and life.

I also know she is one divorce or lost job from economic disaster.

As are most women in this country.

Your statement reveals a lot about your own relationship with your parents. Most of my family is close so we know all these things about each other. On the other hand, my mother's ex-husband knows very little about his own sons and I know more about my niece's life than her father who is my stepbrother. It is their loss.

@Sybil2 wrote:

Are all parents this involved in their ADULT children's' finances? Reading some of these posts baffles the mind. My parents don't know how much I make or how much I owe (or don't owe.) They know what kind of car I drive but they don't know how much I paid for it.

Yes, I was going to add "I guess we're as involved as we want to be, or as involved as the children want us to be (or will allow!).

@shoptastic wrote:

@Shop-et-al wrote:

There may be a difference in need. Some shoppers do not "need" revenue from this business as much as they enjoy the tasks, perceived perks, or use of skills. Some people have done this work for years because it is interesting, uses a different skill set, provides a perk, or something that is not related to primary income. (Recently, I saw a successful salesperson doing a grocery store shop. They do not money. They need something to do, now that their kids are in college and they are more aware that don't like their spouse very much.)

All people do not not value this work only according to money and a need for at least minimum wage. Some have other revenue and can be in this industry for other reasons.

Must money be the only consideration for all shoppers?

Would anyone do the shops for free by chance?

If so, I hope they don't live near me!

I don't know where you live. I only know that there are gulfs of difference between shoppers. All shoppers do not use this industry as primary income and do not approach the business as other shoppers do.

Heck, even I don't approach it the same way twice. This month, if I had waited for only bonused shops, I would have done nothing except two lengthy projects. I was busy with those projects and had to schedule around them. I did pre-bonused shops early in the month. At the end of the month, I was not available for many shops and just now, others are getting the big bucks for shops that I was not available to do. Good for them. Next month, it will be my turn for late-month bonuses because I will be available for them. I made enough money. More money is in my future. All is well.

p.s. If I make this money next month, I can afford to do a few shops for free.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2017 01:51AM by Shop-et-al.

@LisaSTL wrote:

Your statement reveals a lot about your own relationship with your parents. Most of my family is close so we know all these things about each other. On the other hand, my mother's ex-husband knows very little about his own sons and I know more about my niece's life than her father who is my stepbrother. It is their loss.

Yes, my statement reveals that my parents raised me to be very independent. They were definitely not helicopter parents, thank God! I can't stand being smothered.

I have a great relationship with my parents on a much deeper level than finances. We actually enjoy our moments together and making great memories. We laugh a lot which is sooooo important.

ETA: Just because they are family, it does not mean that they need to be or that I want them to be all up in my business.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2017 01:43AM by Sybil2.

You can be independent, but know those kinds of financial details. My parents and sister's family knows all my income streams and expenses, while I know theirs. Maybe we're just close like that...

I love how you people are judging my family when I asked a simple question about parents in general. I swear, some of you crack me up.

Tarantado, that would be too much closeness for me. I like more distance and privacy. I have achieved that to some degree with my family. It stresses me to the max that with my in-laws, there are relentless demands to reveal personal information about me and others. All families do not and should not have a mandated "closeness"...trust me. I know...

Sybil2, Good luck...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2017 01:58AM by Shop-et-al.

Eh, might just be a cultural thing I grew up with. We all have a ton of shared expenses like being all on the same phone bill, sharing Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc. and even helping each other out with obtaining bonuses for new credit card (as authorize users and taking turns; "churn together, stay together!). Hell, me and my sister's family are about to work together business-wise with investing our homes and searching for a huge home to live together in! Again... It's probably outside the norm with what me and my family are doing.

@Sybil2 wrote:

I love how you people are judging my family when I asked a simple question about parents in general. I swear, some of you crack me up.

It's because your 'simple question' comes off as condescending.... That's probably why.

@Sybil2 wrote:

Are all parents this involved in their ADULT children's' finances? Reading some of these posts baffles the mind. My parents don't know how much I make or how much I owe (or don't owe.) They know what kind of car I drive but they don't know how much I paid for it.

@Tarantado wrote:

It's because your 'simple question' comes off as condescending.... That's probably why.

There go the ASSumptions again. Some of you people are going to find a problem with anything I post. That is one of the things I find so funny. Then there are the forum stalkers. I just feel sad for them.