What do you guys do when a company returns your report more then a week later saying they want more details? They want me to describe sales associates I did not have transactions with, and whose backs were to me as they were shelving items. I told them this in the initial report. I went back and added what little details I could remember a week later. They returned the report and just sent me the guidelines. The report pays 8.50, with a reimbursement of 4.00, so I don't really care if they don't pay me. I really only took it because I was in the area already.

Since you have the guidelines, does it state descriptions are required for every employee in the store or every one you encounter?

If it is in the guidelines your only choices are to provide the information or tell them you do not know and forfeit the pay.

OTOH, if the additional information they are requesting is nowhere in the guidelines or on the report, you have the upper hand. Accepting a shop is akin to entering into a contract. The MSC cannot arbitrarily change the terms without allowing you the option to renegotiate. There are MSCs who will take advantage of you not being interested in pursuing the issue over $8.50. Others will realize you are in the right and pay you.

Whatever the guidelines say is what's required in the report. If you're not able to provide descriptions, then simply explain why. If they want descriptions of employees you saw but didn't interact with, then something as generic as "female, approximately 5'6", average build with shoulder-length dark hair" usually will suffice. IT doesn't have to be good enough for a sketch artist.
And I agree with @LisaSTL, if the requirement to provide descriptions of other employees is not in the guidelines, point that out and tell them you expect to be paid for performing the shop as agreed.

Just answer it, rather than complain? If you don't have the information, just respond with that. Remember the MSC is YOUR client, regardless if it's a <$10 shop or not. If it's massively out of scope, just respond at the end that 'it's good to know that this kind of information is needed for this project; I will keep note of it for next time,'
regardless if it's within your guidelines from the beginning or not. For a <$10, it's not worth complaining about. Just respond, take note of it and move on.

Even if you didn't see the person's face, you can still give height, gender and hair color.

@HonnyBrown wrote:

Even if you didn't see the person's face, you can still give height, gender and hair color.

Yes. Sort of. I will always remember the day I exclaimed, "OMG!!!!! She has the most beautiful mane!!!!!" And then he turned around.

Thanks guys. I don't plan on complaining to them. My stance is, I just don't have that information in my memory after a week. How do I tell the MSC without being a jerk? Looking back in the guidelines, it is there.

@thecrwth wrote:

Thanks guys. I don't plan on complaining to them. My stance is, I just don't have that information in my memory after a week. How do I tell the MSC without being a jerk? Looking back in the guidelines, it is there.

So the details the MSC is asking isn't so ridiculous then?

Any ways, if you genuinely don't have that information anywhere, then state that after looking through your notes, you unfortunately cannot provide this information as it wasn't anywhere in your notes.

@Tarantado wrote:

@thecrwth wrote:

Thanks guys. I don't plan on complaining to them. My stance is, I just don't have that information in my memory after a week. How do I tell the MSC without being a jerk? Looking back in the guidelines, it is there.

So the details the MSC is asking isn't so ridiculous then?

Any ways, if you genuinely don't have that information anywhere, then state that after looking through your notes, you unfortunately cannot provide this information as it wasn't anywhere in your notes.

And remember to take better notes!
Don't fill out the report from memory, without jotting down a few notes. MSC can ask for info months after the shop.

Sorry once I am paid all of that information disappears into the electronic trash can. If I remember to do that but you might get lucky and I MIGHT STILL HAVE IT> dang sticky keys. Luckily I do save where I have been and what mileage I drove which I hope is good enough for the IRS for 2015 returns.

@2stepps wrote:

Sorry once I am paid all of that information disappears into the electronic trash can. If I remember to do that but you might get lucky and I MIGHT STILL HAVE IT> dang sticky keys. Luckily I do save where I have been and what mileage I drove which I hope is good enough for the IRS for 2015 returns.

I never understood why many shoppers don't just archive data, since data storage is extremely affordable and available.

@Tarantado wrote:

I never understood why many shoppers don't just archive data, since data storage is extremely affordable and available.

Agreed, it's more work to trash my old stuff than to archive the whole folder annually...

I've got receipts, notes and info for shops I did a decade ago that I can call up in seconds.

@Tarantado wrote:

So the details the MSC is asking isn't so ridiculous then?

Great, ask for advice, get a lecture. It's ridiculous to ask a week later. Yes, I goofed. Most MSC's ask for something like that within a day or two and I can provide it. Please don't lecture me further.

Tarantado just made a good point. In your OP and the subject line of this thread you have blamed MSC for being unreasonable when in reality it was your mistake. We all have made mistakes like forgetting some details here and there. Since the company didn't ask for anything out of line, you have the option to edit the subject line.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2018 03:52PM by LisaSTL.

I record voice notes immediately after a shop and recite all of the key observations I had to make, plus extra. Just in case.... I keep these on my phone for around 3 months so that if a question arises, for example, once the client gets the report, I can go back and check. This came in very handy recently when a server claimed she offered certain things to us (which was in the observations), and I checked both my voice notes and my dining companion, and she didn't. The shop was accepted once I explained that I checked the notes I'd taken immediately after leaving the restaurant (and with my husband). Of course, there's no way for the editor to know I'm telling the truth, but I think if you can back up something in your report because you do the same thing after every shop, it holds more water. At least you're not trying to remember just in your head.

LOL...I know that woman!

I keep messing up...I guess I should've hit "quote" instead of "reply". Is there a way to delete an errant post?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2018 02:08AM by Shelovestoshop.

@Shelovestoshop wrote:

Is there a way to delete an errant post?

You can edit your post to, for example, change the subject line to "Deleted" (or Corrected, or something), then delete the body of the post and put a short explanation if you want. "Oops," "post deleted," "never mind," something like that.

I think only the moderators can permanently remove a post.

I wanted to comment that just the act of inputting voice notes helps you remember the details. It's like you're recording them to your brain as you speak. Much the same as hand writing notes reinforces the material. Sometimes I won't need to refer to my voice recording while reporting a shop. But if I hadn't made one, I probably wouldn't remember some of the details. And, again, it's a great back-up tool when you need to verify or clarify.

@BirdyC: Are you a teacher?

@Shop-et-al wrote:

@BirdyC: Are you a teacher?

LOL! Nope. But I used to think about going back to school and finishing my B.A. so I could teach English. But these days I'd end up so frustrated I'd throw myself off of a bridge. Or kill my students. I can't imagine the frustration of teaching kids who haven't already been taught proper, basic language skills....

@BirdyC wrote:

@Shop-et-al wrote:

@BirdyC: Are you a teacher?

LOL! Nope. But I used to think about going back to school and finishing my B.A. so I could teach English. But these days I'd end up so frustrated I'd throw myself off of a bridge. Or kill my students. I can't imagine the frustration of teaching kids who haven't already been taught proper, basic language skills....

Some parents did teach their children proper language skills. If you are teaching IB, Honors, or AP classes, you'd be interacting with only the smartest kids - my kids.

@SoCalMama wrote:

Some parents did teach their children proper language skills. If you are teaching IB, Honors, or AP classes, you'd be interacting with only the smartest kids - my kids.

Yeah, well, my son is brilliant in languages, too (English plus three other languages), and I do know several other students who have excellent skills. So it's not just your kids -- LOL. And it's not just because I made it a point to teach him at home when he was young. He did get an excellent education -- for the most part.

Of course some parents and some schools teach their kids the right things. But, generally speaking, people aren't learning what they should be. I worked at the university level and at the elementary level (in different capacities), and one of my freelance clients is a non-profit associated with our school district. So I've had many, many years of experience in academia. I can definitely say that three things have happened over the last couple of decades:

1. Schools (in general, not all) aren't teaching English as thoroughly and competently as they should be. Even our district, which has a top 100 high school in the country and which is highly regarded for its language-arts curriculum, has English teachers there who appall me with their "skills."

2. Parents are leaving it to the schools to teach their kids everything. Also, many parents haven't had a strong grounding in the basics and don't have the skills themselves in order to teach their kids.

3. Devices have stopped people from critically thinking about spelling, grammar, usage, etc. People don't think they have to proofread the stuff their phones auto-fill for them, and they assume spell-check makes no mistakes. As a result, millions of people see the same errors in usage and spelling over and over, and come to accept them as correct. (vis a vis: its, it's; their, they're, their; every day vs. everyday; accept vs. except; bridal vs. bridle; complement vs. compliment; the incorrect use of punctuation; and more). People don't get that their devices can't read context and will often just fill in, or correct to, the most common form of a word, even it it's not correct.

So, that is why I will never teach English.

Edited to add: I think most of the blame here goes to the schools. In the 1980s, there was a push at the university level for creativity and expression over technical grammar skills. Why those were considered mutually exclusive, I have no idea. One can be creative and correct at the same time! And at the lower levels there was a trend for teachers in non-English classes to be instructed NOT to mark students down for grammar! E.g., if a student wrote a history paper, he or she was not to be graded on errors in writing. I call B.S. on that! At least our school now has reversed that, and teachers are required to downgrade if English mistakes are made on papers in other subject areas. It was sad, though, that the district had to send out a notification on that so parents wouldn't get mad that their kids would lose points over errors in grammar. Don't know what other schools are doing, but I hope they're swinging the pendulum back the other way, too.

End of rant. LOL..



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2018 08:17PM by BirdyC.

@BirdyC wrote:

Edited to add: I think most of the blame here goes to the schools. In the 1980s, there was a push at the university level for creativity and expression over technical grammar skills. Why those were considered mutually exclusive, I have no idea. One can be creative and correct at the same time! And at the lower levels there was a trend for teachers in non-English classes to be instructed NOT to mark students down for grammar! E.g., if a student wrote a history paper, he or she was not to be graded on errors in writing. I call B.S. on that! At least our school now has reversed that, and teachers are required to downgrade if English mistakes are made on papers in other subject areas. It was sad, though, that the district had to send out a notification on that so parents wouldn't get mad that their kids would lose points over errors in grammar. Don't know what other schools are doing, but I hope they're swinging the pendulum back the other way, too.

End of rant. LOL..

I totally agree with your rant. My kids were in grade school in the 90's and this was the newest trial going on in lausd schools at the time. And not just in the public schools. One of my best friend enrolled her child in Catholic school and was boasting to me they had the latest technology in the writing programs that did just that. I was so worried that my kids would pick up bad spelling and grammar from that program that I felt would be difficult to reverse by a higher grade. I became their spelling and grammar teacher during those years checking all their work. Then after those kids were already out of the lower grades the districts decided the program was a bad idea after all. Those kids born in those years could not go back and re do K-5!

@sandyf wrote:

I was so worried that my kids would pick up bad spelling and grammar from that program that I felt would be difficult to reverse by a higher grade. I became their spelling and grammar teacher during those years checking all their work. Then after those kids were already out of the lower grades the districts decided the program was a bad idea after all. Those kids born in those years could not go back and re do K-5!

Good for you, Sandy! You were very wise to recognize the fault of this "logic," and remain a hands-on teacher for your kids. I'll bet they get compliments on their language skills!

What's even more distressing than kids not learning proper skills during those years (as sad as that is) is the number of teachers who are lacking the most basic of skills. I read something from an English teacher the other day that contained numerous errors, including not using a possessive when one was called for, writing "everyday" when "every day" was called for, and simply butchering the construction of sentences. I was horrified. Not kidding about that. If this is what our kids are being taught, no wonder the competency level is through the floor.

@BirdyC wrote:

@sandyf wrote:

I was so worried that my kids would pick up bad spelling and grammar from that program that I felt would be difficult to reverse by a higher grade. I became their spelling and grammar teacher during those years checking all their work. Then after those kids were already out of the lower grades the districts decided the program was a bad idea after all. Those kids born in those years could not go back and re do K-5!

Good for you, Sandy! You were very wise to recognize the fault of this "logic," and remain a hands-on teacher for your kids. I'll bet they get compliments on their language skills!

What's even more distressing than kids not learning proper skills during those years (as sad as that is) is the number of teachers who are lacking the most basic of skills. I read something from an English teacher the other day that contained numerous errors, including not using a possessive when one was called for, writing "everyday" when "every day" was called for, and simply butchering the construction of sentences. I was horrified. Not kidding about that. If this is what our kids are being taught, no wonder the competency level is through the floor.

I guess we are totally off mystery shop topic now but I see this perpetuated. Currently we are
voting for a new elected person to oversee the public schools in my state. Not knowing the individual candidates one of them is boasting that during his term in whatever office he held the graduation rates increased dramatically. I am not out to point fingers at this candidate but in recent years the local graduation rates have soared simply because they instituted a "fix" so that more kids could graduate. This included the ability to take a very short course after failing several graduation required courses and then an easy test which was based only on what was learned in the short course and then get credit for passing a year long class by having mastered only a small percentage of dumbed down knowledge. Teachers in my state correct me if I am misled by what I read in the news about this. Anyone who does not know about this fix will assume by the ads that the candidates who say this actually affected the grad rates with the same academic rigor required as before.

Really, this topic isn't totally disconnected from mystery shopping. In the past, when grammar has come up in a thread, many shoppers say they weren't taught enough about grammar and good writing and have a hard time with narratives. Some feel that too much is expected of them in that regard, when, really, all that's expected is the basic grammar that we all learned by the sixth or seventh grade. Or should have learned, IF the schools were doing their jobs.

Also, some shoppers complain about getting marked down for spelling, punctuation, etc., and have gone on to say, "But I use spell-check." (No; NEVER trust spell-check.) Then, again, some editors working for MSCs don't have a good grasp of grammar, either, and will "fix" something that was correct to begin with, and it ends up wrong! So, this business can be frustrating from the writing standpoint.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2018 09:02PM by BirdyC.

Does anyone else remember "inventive spelling" from the 80's? My kids went through that. I still shudder to think about it.

@sassymmmm wrote:

Does anyone else remember "inventive spelling" from the 80's? My kids went through that. I still shudder to think about it.

Not sure I know the term, but is that when kids were allowed to spell words phonetically and not have to learn correct spelling? I suppose the gist of it was, "If we can read and understand it, it can't be wrong. So, spell things any old way you want, dear, and it's fine."

Basically, yes. And that's exactly what's wrong with it.

@sassymmmm wrote:

Basically, yes. And that's exactly what's wrong with it.

OMG. Whoever in the world thought this was a good idea? Sigh.... No wonder even professional copywriters can't write. I edit the work of other writers, and I'm constantly amazed at the lack of competency many have.