It sounds like youre defining any donation as advertising and if thats your definition then i understand why you feel that way about my donation.

I said people asked about it. As in asked. Not asked to buy later from me. I would have stated as much if thats what happened.

(Edit: so i double checked my spreadsheet and it shows zero sales citing vegas as the referral. I have a bunch from atlanta, a fair bit from other msps, a bunch from my facebook store and a handful from ebay and amazon. Literally no sales ive ever had were tracked to vegas, for what that is worth. Every customer gets asked where they heard about us so we know what things work and i got no one who told me vegas.)




There is absolutely no difference between saying something was pre sold and delivered on site and Saying the delivery of an item was done the day before the conference except one has more details. Those sentences mean the same thing.

Suggesting a story change or mispeaking is being intellectually dishonest and id politely request you not do that. I said the same thing worded differently.


Any other questions?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2018 04:50AM by jrossetti.

I can no longer hold my tongue and attempt to take the high road. The accusations and outright character assassinations have spun completely out of control. If the posters on this board are so concerned about honesty and integrity, perhaps they should censor themselves.
Allow me to clarify how you get to be the authorized vendor of either of these organizations. It’s all about the money.
We (Raptor) parted company with the IMSC when the president of that organization decided to put the privilege of being the authorized vendor out for bids. The more you bid for that privilege put you in position to be the authorized vendor to sell equipment at their functions. We decided that our margins were too tight to pay someone to be the vendor and we preferred to pass that money on to the shoppers in the form of lower prices. This occurred after we formed a Joint Venture of Greyhawk and Video Shopping Pros and the IMSC president told us that we couldn’t do that. To this day, I don’t think that she understands what a joint venture is. There was a long-heated exchange which was fueled by the fact that only one company would be paying to be a sponsor. Again, all about the money.
The MSPA had approached us about partnering with Raptor about being their exclusive equipment and training PARTNER. Apparently the MSPA Board Member who approached us was not authorized to cut a deal with us as it had to go to the board for approval and as this evolved, we found that it was only an effort to extract as much money as possible from us in order to be the only equipment vendor. When we tried to negotiate based on a “partnership” arrangement, the support of its organization faded. We opted to withdraw from these negotiations. Just as point of reference, the starting sponsorship level for us would have been $5000 plus a percentage of the money collected for training (to be a partner).
We agreed with several Video Shopping Companies to put together a conference which solely served the Video Shopping Portion of the Mystery Shopping Community. We agreed to do this. Several people have repeatedly stated that they do not know how we are able to put the quality of a conference together as we do for the amount we charge shoppers. The bottom line is that we are losing money on all of the conferences. Again, it’s not all about the money to Raptor, but rather providing a quality experience for the Video Shopper and Providers. We only have shoppers at the VideoCon conference. We do not stack the attendees with people who have no interest in mystery shopping.
We are the only equipment company and training company who is comprised of people who’s only interest is promoting and growing the Video Shopping Industry. We have sold and supported over 800 video shopping kits and trained over 300 shoppers. We supply a list of shoppers trained to over 50 individuals who are currently scheduling video shops.
We hope this puts the backbiting and accusations to rest. We have better things to do than to spend our time defending our position on this board. I hope that those involved in the Video Shopping Industry can see their was clear to stop with the accusations and Allow us to get on with our mission.
Jeff Crozier
IMS247@verizon.net
407-595-7899

Hmmmm... Are there any video bar integrity shops in the Chicago area?

Oh, for heaven's sake. Getting your knickers in a twist because someone who was not a conference sponsor donated something is a bit much even for you BG.

As it happens, I was there. At the time, Joe and I had (and actually still have) a disagreement about state laws regarding audio recording. On my side, I was very angry. I can tell you that I would have raised hell if what Jeff alleges had happened, because I was not just skeptical of Joe; I was @#$% angry about it. In earlier posts here I have stated that it took a lot of observing Joe and Alex very carefully (You might even say warily) for me to see all of the positive things that they were doing. I do not give blind loyalty to anyone; I also will not withhold my support for good work because of a disagreement such as Joe and I have.

Edited to add:
I seem to recall that the donations at that Las Vegas conference were for a silent auction where all proceeds went to the charity that supports re-integrating homeless veterans into the local society and economy. In recent years IMSC has had a variety of ways of supporting local LV efforts to assists, for instance, homeless youth with needed clothing, and other such ventures. The sponsors of the supported organization are introduced and speak about their work. If I am wrong about the 2017 donations, I am sure that someone who was there will chime in.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2018 11:48AM by walesmaven.

Since the question was asked, I will be happy to answer. Greyhawk was asked to pay the $1500.00 sponsorship for the Las Vegas conference in November of 2017 over a year in advance. Since at the time, we were treated as a friend, we cut the check no questions asked. For the sponsorship fee, we were guaranteed to be the sole equipment provider at the conferences. That was the same arrangement Lawmate America was afforded from the start. I know all too well, because as a brand-new company I made the mistake of mentioning my company name on an IMSC board while Lawmate America was their sponsor. The roof fell in. I was not aware of the arrangement which was the fault of Lawmate America who was my distributor. They did not make me aware.

The good will lasted right up to the point we formed RAPTOR. Shortly thereafter, and well before the Las Vegas conference, IMSC announced their full support for a new equipment vendor. We placed an objection. We noted that if they wanted to change vendors, that was fine, but they needed to honor their obligation through 2017. Two conferences a year was a $3000.00 arrangement that should have been honored. It was not. We were also informed IMSC was putting the equipment vendor “UP FOR BID”.

Greyhawk paid for two family members to join our partner at the Las Vegas conference. Both my representatives and friends we had at the conference let me know the owner of Mystery Shopping Depot was at the conference as was his right. They also informed me that he was there promoting his company. That was not within rights. We placed an objection with IMSC. I was told by the president of the IMSC that he was sitting in the floor outside the conference room and that she had no control over anything outside of their room. If he was not promoting his business, why did he have to stay outside?

While the conference was underway, I got word from a number of people there were people there from Fill A Seat. (Fill A Seat is just what it sounds like. Local people pay a small fee and get FREE tickets to shows and events in their area. It is most often used for productions shows. They don’t want their performers playing to a half empty venue. It impacts their performance.) Sponsors make their decision on whether to continue sponsoring based on turnout. Using a seat filling service is dishonest. It was at that point, I contacted IMSC and informed them we will not support that kind of behavior and to remove our name from everything concerning them.

There was something on their facebook page about this stating the shopper fee for those people was covered by the Nevada companies who were using it as a recruiting tool because they need local people in Nevada to shop. I will see if I can find it

Anyone who has been to a recent IMSC event and/or checked out IMSC on line probably is aware that IMSC has a program called, "No Shopper Left Behind." This program aims to find and encourage folks who could benefit from MS income but may not know how to get started and cannot afford to pay for conference admission. From what I was told by others at the conference in question, and from the "sponsored" shoppers that I went out of my way to meet, greet, and encourage by helping them network, there were such attendees who had been referred by a local community college, an Air Force vet whose disability counselor had sent her towards the program to encourage maintaining and redeveloping her work skills, and others in similar circumstances. In addition, a couple of the Nevada MSCs, ie, those that are licensed there and control all legal NV scheduling, were said to have been desperate to recruit new shoppers and had paid entrance fees so as to recruit local shoppers and get them trained and oriented. I spent every 15 minute break between sessions, plus some lunch break time, and even stayed out in the halls to have longer discussions with as many shoppers who were totally new to MS as I could. I sat in different areas in the main conference room to expand the number of people that I would meet and welcome. As many of you know, I also recruit for a couple of less-well-known MSCs so I really have a stake in meeting as many new people as possible at every conference. Over three days (Yes, I was there 3 days and often am) I probably chatted long enough with 90 percent of the "newbies" there to ask how they found out about the conference and how serious they were about MS. All of the newbie NV residents that I met came from the sorts of sources I have named and were eager to learn more about MS. So, I am more than a bit mystified by this change of subject to some conspiracy about inflating attendance.

Oh good, this makes it to where I do not have to look for it. It is good to have someone like you on this forum who knows so much about them, can I ask are you a part of the imsc in some way Walesmaven?

Hahahahahahahahahah

Nope. I am not. Like many who support the mission of shopper education wherever it is carried out with respect for shoppers, I am not a member of any shopper organization. I am one of many shoppers who volunteer to present workshops at conferences, and I have greatly benefited from what I learn at conferences. But I am not on any committees or planning groups. And, as many who attend IMSC events know, the IMSC president and I have several profound differences of opinion. But we each respect the other.

There is, however, one enduring link between us: if her brother-in-law ever becomes eligible (single) I want to be the first to know! He spoke at an early, perhaps the first, conference and some folks think that I return to each conference in hopes that he will be there. I greet Tony (The president's husband, and the MC for conferences) with a hug and, "Is your brother still married?"

Edited to add...
When MSPA announced years ago that it was canceling its shopper education sessions that had been run with their annual member meetings, a group of 5-6 Volition forum members started PMing about getting together for a "brown bag lunch" in the same town (LV) at the same time that the regular MSPA shopper training sessions would have happened. I was one of that group. However, it was my dear friend Debra Bugge and the current president of the IMSC who really took that from a brown bag lunch for 6 to the first full scale, 2 day IMSC conference. I dropped out of the planning group very early because I had recruited Debra, who turned out to be the dynamo that the group needed. I have never been good at the kind of work that real conference planning takes and I recognized that early on. Debra and I did design the first session (2 hours I think) about video for that conference, but I was not a presenter. As one of many volunteers, I helped with telling speakers when they had 5 minutes to wrap up their sessions to make room for the next session on time. Let me tell you, for sure, being one of the "timer Nazis" was (and is) not high on the list of making friends and influencing people.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2018 02:07PM by walesmaven.

MSAddict,
Thanks for scouting the IMSC FB pages. As you may have noticed, I am very seldom there.

@MFJohnston wrote:

Hmmmm... Are there any video bar integrity shops in the Chicago area?

Yessir, Chicago is my home base. Hit up at least Ace Mystery Shopping for video integrity bars in this area.

If you dont need video Nsite Inc does about 30-40 bars in chicago area.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2018 11:49PM by jrossetti.

@Msaddict wrote:

There was something on their facebook page about this stating the shopper fee for those people was covered by the Nevada companies who were using it as a recruiting tool because they need local people in Nevada to shop. I will see if I can find it

There was. It's on the IMSC page.

This thread - oy. It's the equivalent of The Jerry Springer Show, which would be funny, except it's not.

Speaking as a seasoned video shopper, this thread is doing nothing positive for the profession. If a client wanted to do research on video mystery shopping and came across this thread - full of wild accusations, diatribes, terrible grammar and irrelevant personal detail - they would conclude that the video shopping world was full of cranks and crackpots.

To the anonymous shoppers reading this thread, the potential clients and the current clients - this is not who we are. We are better than this, more professional in our daily work, and act with more emotional intelligence than is being displayed here by a small handful of participants.

To the participants in this thread: Stop it. Look at how others are going to view this discussion. Act like adults, act like professionals, and knock off the mudslinging.

@walesmaven wrote:

Oh, for heaven's sake. Getting your knickers in a twist because someone who was not a conference sponsor donated something is a bit much even for you BG.

As it happens, I was there. At the time, Joe and I had (and actually still have) a disagreement about state laws regarding audio recording. On my side, I was very angry. I can tell you that I would have raised hell if what Jeff alleges had happened, because I was not just skeptical of Joe; I was @#$% angry about it. In earlier posts here I have stated that it took a lot of observing Joe and Alex very carefully (You might even say warily) for me to see all of the positive things that they were doing. I do not give blind loyalty to anyone; I also will not withhold my support for good work because of a disagreement such as Joe and I have.

Edited to add:
I seem to recall that the donations at that Las Vegas conference were for a silent auction where all proceeds went to the charity that supports re-integrating homeless veterans into the local society and economy. In recent years IMSC has had a variety of ways of supporting local LV efforts to assists, for instance, homeless youth with needed clothing, and other such ventures. The sponsors of the supported organization are introduced and speak about their work. If I am wrong about the 2017 donations, I am sure that someone who was there will chime in.

I'd like for you to come to dinner with me one night at vegas this year. We will be eating with my friend, and Vegas attorney, Jason. I'm going to ply him with free food and he's going to tell us all about audio/video recording laws so we wont be in disagreement anymore. We'll need to go to him though, he's not going near the strip lol.

Sorry Joe,
I am having to pass on this years fall LV conference. I stated earlier (in a different thread) that I had volunteered to lead a workshop. However, that travel plan was OBE, as my military brother would say. See you all at the 2019 conference in Phoenix? (Probably October from what I hear from those more active on FB.)

Thanks for the invite, tho.

@jrossetti wrote:

It sounds like youre defining any donation as advertising and if thats your definition then i understand why you feel that way about my donation.

No, I'm defining a donation with an intent to promote a business as advertising. Had you donated with no name attached and no price attached it would not have been advertising.

@jrossetti wrote:

(Edit: so i double checked my spreadsheet and it shows zero sales citing vegas as the referral. I have a bunch from atlanta, a fair bit from other msps, a bunch from my facebook store and a handful from ebay and amazon. Literally no sales ive ever had were tracked to vegas, for what that is worth. Every customer gets asked where they heard about us so we know what things work and i got no one who told me vegas.)

So you misspoke before or you are changing your story?
You seem to misspeak a lot. That would concern me if I bought a product from you.

@jrossetti wrote:

There is absolutely no difference between saying something was pre sold and delivered on site and Saying the delivery of an item was done the day before the conference except one has more details. Those sentences mean the same thing.

Huh? Those two statements aren't the same at all. They don't mean the same thing. First you said it was presold and delivered on site. Then you said it was delivered off site the day before. They don't mean the same thing AT ALL.

@jrossetti wrote:

Suggesting a story change or mispeaking is being intellectually dishonest and id politely request you not do that. I said the same thing worded differently.

But you didn't. You either changed your story or you misspoke. Now it's happened twice. I personally couldn't care less either way. Just trying to figure out what really happened so I can make a determination. I would like to purchase a backup EVO as it's my favorite cam and probably one of the new models as well to test. I'm not spending $800 without doing a bit of research on who I'm purchasing from. You can like it or not I don't care.

And to add, I really don't care if you advertised at the conference or not. It's not how I would do business but if I were your competitor I would be more angry at the person who took the donation than you.

BG, you have made your anger more than apparent.

@walesmaven wrote:

Oh, for heaven's sake. Getting your knickers in a twist because someone who was not a conference sponsor donated something is a bit much even for you BG.

As it happens, I was there. At the time, Joe and I had (and actually still have) a disagreement about state laws regarding audio recording. On my side, I was very angry. I can tell you that I would have raised hell if what Jeff alleges had happened, because I was not just skeptical of Joe; I was @#$% angry about it. In earlier posts here I have stated that it took a lot of observing Joe and Alex very carefully (You might even say warily) for me to see all of the positive things that they were doing. I do not give blind loyalty to anyone; I also will not withhold my support for good work because of a disagreement such as Joe and I have.

Edited to add:
I seem to recall that the donations at that Las Vegas conference were for a silent auction where all proceeds went to the charity that supports re-integrating homeless veterans into the local society and economy. In recent years IMSC has had a variety of ways of supporting local LV efforts to assists, for instance, homeless youth with needed clothing, and other such ventures. The sponsors of the supported organization are introduced and speak about their work. If I am wrong about the 2017 donations, I am sure that someone who was there will chime in.

My knickers aren't in a twist at all. I'm just curious as to what actually has happened to cause all of this turmoil.
Audio recording laws are your only disagreement? And I don't care about who the charity was, that's not material to the discussion.

@walesmaven wrote:

BG, you have made your anger more than apparent.

Except I'm not angry in the least bit. Just curious.

@ColoKate63 wrote:

This thread - oy. It's the equivalent of The Jerry Springer Show, which would be funny, except it's not.

Speaking as a seasoned video shopper, this thread is doing nothing positive for the profession. If a client wanted to do research on video mystery shopping and came across this thread - full of wild accusations, diatribes, terrible grammar and irrelevant personal detail - they would conclude that the video shopping world was full of cranks and crackpots.

To the anonymous shoppers reading this thread, the potential clients and the current clients - this is not who we are. We are better than this, more professional in our daily work, and act with more emotional intelligence than is being displayed here by a small handful of participants.

To the participants in this thread: Stop it. Look at how others are going to view this discussion. Act like adults, act like professionals, and knock off the mudslinging.

I get the impression you and I would never agree on much at all, but on this I COMPLETELY agree. I don't understand why there's all the mudslinging. There's obviously a disagreement between several parties. It would be a lot easier to make a determination on where I should purchase equipment if they would all just be above board and tell us what really happened between them all. You have one side changing stories, you have another side making accusations. It's all very confusing.

This is a public forum, accessible to all who are doing a simple Google search. And, since its SEO metrics are good, this forum pops up on the front page of searches on a regular basis. That's a shame, because this forum is poorly moderated and gives a terrible impression of the industry as a whole.

I don't regularly participate in this forum, even though I've been registered here for almost 7 years, precisely because of crap threads like this one. I don't care whether a DVR was delivered in a hallway or at a nearby coffee shop, what sponsorship costs for the various organizations, whether someone's brother is married, where someone sat at a conference. These seem to be all topics that would be better handled either in a personal email exchange or (better yet) in a therapist's office.

BGriffin, A DVR set can be purchased from literally dozens of vendors here in the USA. You are not limited to four or five choices; Lawmate has multiple contractors who will sell you one and provide post-sale service. I have purchased rigs from brick-and-mortar storefronts, at an IMSC conference, online from a vendor. If you are truly in the market to buy a rig or two (and not just looking to troll a forum thread,) then do your research and buy the darn thing; no need to split hairs and sling mud in the process. Period.

Overall, this is gossip, unprofessional and unbecoming. I wish the too-eager participants would knock it off, that the moderators would pull posts and mute participants more frequently here - but that's probably way too much to hope for.

Bottom Line: I don't want this kind of nonsense to affect my profit line, to damage my chosen work industry, and to overall add to the murky, unpleasant reputation that mystery shopping currently holds.

Do you have a preferred vendor outside the mystery shopping industry you could recommend? I've always heard that it's important to purchase from someone in the industry as they understand our requirements but it seems you're saying it's unimportant.

Thanks for your input!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2018 03:01PM by bgriffin.

@Greyhawk wrote:

They also informed me that he was there promoting his company. That was not within rights. We placed an objection with IMSC. I was told by the president of the IMSC that he was sitting in the floor outside the conference room and that she had no control over anything outside of their room. If he was not promoting his business, why did he have to stay outside?

While the conference was underway, I got word from a number of people there were people there from Fill A Seat. (Fill A Seat is just what it sounds like. Local people pay a small fee and get FREE tickets to shows and events in their area. It is most often used for productions shows. They don’t want their performers playing to a half empty venue. It impacts their performance.) Sponsors make their decision on whether to continue sponsoring based on turnout. Using a seat filling service is dishonest. It was at that point, I contacted IMSC and informed them we will not support that kind of behavior and to remove our name from everything concerning them.

Sitting in a seat outside of the conference with no equipment, business cards, or other collateral is called sitting in a seat outside of the conference. I would like for you to elaborate on what exactly your "friends" saw. In detail how was I promoting my business. We had no equipment for sale. We had no promotional materials. We had no booth selling product as was suggested earlier. We had no table. We had no sales. Had no flyers. We didn't even make our sign and business cards until so close to the atlanta conference we had to ship them to the hotel.

[imgur.com]

It sounds like your new argument has moved from I set up a booth outside of Vegas selling equipment to I was sitting at a table outside of the conference doors promoting my business. Which is it?



In atlanta friends and foe alike have confirmed what happened, yet when it comes to Vegas with twice as many people the only "sources" are your personal anonymous friends. Why are people willing to stand by what they saw in Atlanta but no one is willing to do the same for Vegas? I am again going to ask for some evidence for your accusation. Do you have anything more than your friends? Youre accusing me of having a table and promoting my company literally right outside the doors to the conference but not a single person out of more than 200 unaffiliated people are willing to speak up? Not a single company owner. Not a single shopper? No one? Surely someone who isn't friends saw something if it was so blatant, right?


Standing offer. I've got $100 for doctors without borders if you can supply even one person who is a company owner or shopper on site who's not a friend or affiliated with you stating what they saw and heard me doing. They must go on the record. I would also accept any video evidence or photos.

Fill A seat is absolutely used at the Vegas conference. Nevada shopping companies donate money to pay for the tickets that are given to fill a seat who then finds local people interested in learning more about mystery shopping. This means that the Nevada companies are paying for the tickets, which are then given to Fill a seat who gives them to locals. It would really help with transparency if the entire story was given regarding things like this instead of leaving out important information. The implication is people were allowed to show up and were given free tickets to fill seats, when the reality is those tickets were paid for by Nevada companies and then given to locals (who did not need to pay for them, since they were already paid for) This has been going on ever since they stopped going to the Reno Balloon festival many years ago. It's not a new program. This can be confirmed by anyone who knows leadership in Nevada shopping companies. Don't take some random internet strangers word for something like this. Bold claims require bold evidence, and that has not been provided.

This ties into what Walesmaven mentioned about her having chat with many of those new people. The service allows them to get a nice supply of local people which is what those Nevada companies are paying for in the first place. That's how it's supposed to happen. It's the same thing with the no shopper left behind program. Technically those shoppers get free tickets too, but they are paid for by donations.

BGriffin - Honestly, my best advice regarding a PV-500 purchase would be the same for any other decision:

* Read the online reviews,
* Note the return, warranty and repair policies,
* Compare pricing information.

I currently have three high-quality PV-500 rigs running, and my last purchase was in June 2017. When it's time to buy a replacement, I will just treat it like any other consumer decision. Since I am no longer a novice video shopper, I don't need much hand-holding from a vendor.

Someone who is newer to video shopping may want to choose an in-industry vendor, although if you are halfway motivated and can figure out a cellphone app, you could probably do your own due diligence and learn how to effectively use and troubleshoot a PV-500 on your own. It just takes a few hours of practicing your setup, your angles, and re-watching your videos to get halfway proficient at it; there's no magic in the process.

Have a good and profitable week, adios.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2018 03:08PM by ColoKate63.

@bgriffin wrote:

@jrossetti wrote:

It sounds like youre defining any donation as advertising and if thats your definition then i understand why you feel that way about my donation.

No, I'm defining a donation with an intent to promote a business as advertising. Had you donated with no name attached and no price attached it would not have been advertising.

@jrossetti wrote:

(Edit: so i double checked my spreadsheet and it shows zero sales citing vegas as the referral. I have a bunch from atlanta, a fair bit from other msps, a bunch from my facebook store and a handful from ebay and amazon. Literally no sales ive ever had were tracked to vegas, for what that is worth. Every customer gets asked where they heard about us so we know what things work and i got no one who told me vegas.)

So you misspoke before or you are changing your story?
You seem to misspeak a lot. That would concern me if I bought a product from you.

@jrossetti wrote:

There is absolutely no difference between saying something was pre sold and delivered on site and Saying the delivery of an item was done the day before the conference except one has more details. Those sentences mean the same thing.

Huh? Those two statements aren't the same at all. They don't mean the same thing. First you said it was presold and delivered on site. Then you said it was delivered off site the day before. They don't mean the same thing AT ALL.

@jrossetti wrote:

Suggesting a story change or mispeaking is being intellectually dishonest and id politely request you not do that. I said the same thing worded differently.

But you didn't. You either changed your story or you misspoke. Now it's happened twice. I personally couldn't care less either way. Just trying to figure out what really happened so I can make a determination. I would like to purchase a backup EVO as it's my favorite cam and probably one of the new models as well to test. I'm not spending $800 without doing a bit of research on who I'm purchasing from. You can like it or not I don't care.

And to add, I really don't care if you advertised at the conference or not. It's not how I would do business but if I were your competitor I would be more angry at the person who took the donation than you.

You incorrectly assumed "on-site" meant at the conference. I'm from chicago. On site to me, is on site in vegas. There was no misspeaking. I'm sorry that you mistook my words. Your confusion is why I had to elaborate more in the first place.

Those sentences meant the exact same thing, and I am incredibly sorry that my wording has left you confused as to what was meant. I'll try to be more clear for you in the future.

All donations were listed with who donated them. That's called contact information. I declined to remove the price tag, Youre right. If you want to define not removing a price tag as advertising I'm not sure what to say. Seems a bit broad to me.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2018 03:14PM by jrossetti.

@bgriffin wrote:

Do you have a preferred vendor outside the mystery shopping industry you could recommend? I've always heard that it's important to purchase from someone in the industry as they understand our requirements but it seems you're saying it's unimportant.

Thanks for your input!

Basically the only benefit to buying from a vendor affiliated is that the organization can hold them accountable if they try to screw someone. You should buy from the cheapest vendor offering you what you need. Affiliation is nice but hardly necessary. The idea you have to buy from an affiliated vendor is a thing that was promoted to scare shoppers into only getting from a handful of people. There are dozens of other places you can get legit lawmate gear from with little to no risk. You can even hit up Amazon.

You should also not be spending anything close to 700 dollars for a kit that you can use for shopping. This too was something that was being told to shoppers that wasn't necessarily true. Anything more than 400-500 is way too much and there are offers out right now that are as low as the mid 300's. Please do not pay someone 6 or 7 hundred bucks to anyone. That's outrageous. For perspective, I have been offering new shoppers a kit + paying for their IMSC training (75 bucks) and charging $489 and I still make a little bit of profit on the sale.

You did ask about other vendors though so here are two I will vouch for.

Mike over at Stuntcams is good. [stuntcams.com] I used him for severaly years before I opened an account with Lawmate.

Spy Tek out Canada is good. I used to get from them and pay the currency conversion as it was cheaper and the IMSC vendor at the time who claimed they would price match, refused to price match claiming it was not the same product (it was).

[www.spytech.com]

As far as I know, the no longer under map Evo kits that Greyhawk has leftover due to not selling them yet will be the best lawmate deal you can get in the low 300's. Most of the rest of us have sold out of our evos and have moved onto the newest model the Neo. If you want a neo rather than an evo (I wouldn't' personally recommend this as the only compatible part is the battery) the best deal right now is from me who is selling two more at cost in exchange for some market research.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2018 03:35PM by jrossetti.

Actually I was asking ColoKate for a recommendation but thanks for your input. I'm well aware of how much they should cost. I have a stack of them and carry 3 with me (an EVO that I love, an L3 as backup that I detest, and the HD model that I rarely use). If you read my post clearly I stated I in the market for an EVO to replace my L3 as a backup, and a Neo to test. That's why I stated the amount I did. I'm a fairly accomplished video shopper, I am by no means the best one but I pretty much know the drill. Although you seem to think it, I am not an idiot.

"The way is shut. It was made by those that are dead, and the dead keep it."

@bgriffin wrote:

Actually I was asking ColoKate for a recommendation but thanks for your input. I'm well aware of how much they should cost. I have a stack of them and carry 3 with me (an EVO that I love, an L3 as backup that I detest, and the HD model that I rarely use). If you read my post clearly I stated I in the market for an EVO to replace my L3 as a backup, and a Neo to test. That's why I stated the amount I did. I'm a fairly accomplished video shopper, I am by no means the best one but I pretty much know the drill. Although you seem to think it, I am not an idiot.

B.griffin, I'm incredibly sorry you feel that I think you are an idiot. Perhaps I have not been clear enough in our communication, but I would greatly appreciate it if you would stop with putting thoughts and words in my mouth. No one implied or stated you were an idiot, or at least I did not.

You were confused by several things I posted which was apparent from you repeating it back to me and being inaccurate. That does not make you an idiot. It makes you human and is a well known issue with communicating via printed words only. No emotion or tone can be conveyed and it's really easy to read things in the wrong voice and tone like is happening here.

It seems like much of your issue lies in interpreting my words in the worst possible way instead of asking me for clarification. I bet if you and I sat down and talked, here, or on the phone, we could clear things up. Ive asked you twice in the last couple of days and you have not replied to either attempt. This is my third offer and extension of an olive branch towards you to try and clear things up.



I would like to know if the lack of response regarding "on-site" means this inaccuracy is resolved. You assumed and stated I was misspeaking and that on-site meant in the conference when on-site only meant "in Vegas". I've been very consistent with what I was saying. Now that I have told you that on site simply meant in vegas I feel it should be cleared up but I want to double check and make sure you understand what I meant now.

Do you understand now that when I said "on-site" I was simply referring to being in Vegas and not on site of the conference?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2018 05:31PM by jrossetti.