Gender fluid and mystery shopping?

More people are coming out with their gender fluid identity, which I think is a good step forward for the LGBTQ movement, I begin to wonder whether this will have an impact on the mystery shopping industry. Will shops that require certain genders to perform the shop, now be done by someone that is gender non-conforming, non-binary, or gender fluid?

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"Gender fluid". Thank you. Not exactly what I expected to learn today, but thank you!

I dunno. My demographic is Boring Old Bag. Well preserved, Has had a little work, but no augmentations, removals, or even a tattoo. No Granny Porn. Looks well in dim lights but rarely goes to the kinds of places that have the lights dimmed so low that the old lady looks wonderful there.. I am guessing that my type is all but passe?

Anyway, that is a wonderful question.I know from work that LGBTQ is showing up more and more in research studies and reports. I would think that some clubs, schools, and other organizations would want perspectives from LGBTQ, fluids, etc. Clients might want to know if employees favor or are averse to certain appearances or mannerisms. Is anyone making assumptions, slurs, threats, or otherwise showing possible non-acceptance? Clients might want to find out if their marketing efforts are reaching these demographics.

Nature does not hurry, yet everything is accomplished. - Lao-Tzu

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2018 08:50PM by Shop-et-al.

I've encountered gender-fluid people who were working for retail clients. The shop forms for those evaluations, however, only offered "male" or "female" as options to describe their employees. Lately I've noticed that some shop forms include a third option, "unable to determine."

I hope MSC's will get rid of the male/ female question soon. In a very LGBQ friendly community, like where I live, it's difficult to make a guess and I would hate to offend the person I'm writing about. I had two shops this week where I was completely stumped how the individual identified.

I wish they would say "gender flexible" instead of "gender fluid" as the latter sounds kind of icky.

Getting too old I guess. I saw the word "gender fluid" and I thought this had something to do with those "adult" shops. I feel stupid now.

Don't feel that way. It's a fairly new term.

It would be bad enough if MSCs had shoppers report on observed sex male/female, but asking about gender requires the shopper to be way too subjective IMO. In the least, a third option should be added to the survey form: "other or not discerned."

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2018 05:05AM by Rousseau.

I have taken surveys where they asked if I was male, female, or which gender I most closely identified with. It becomes a whole different thing when WE have to figure out this on our own for shops. "Rousseau, "other" would be great when we have to pick and aren't given the option to type it in ourselves. Some people are so non-binary (am I using that correctly?) and androgynous that it's impossible for me to tell, and I danged sure am not going to ask!

How about "undetermined" ?

Based in MD, near DC
Shopping from the Carolinas to New York
Have video cam; will travel

Poor customer service? Don't get mad; get video.

Yes, some sort of alternative would be great. Unknown, undetermined, etc. Gosh but I would hate if the person saw the report later and said, "Hey, I identify with female" with hurt feelings after a shopper put something other than that.

There are times I guess on height, I can't go measure the person I am shopping, sometimes I can't tell if the hair on their head is brown, dirty blonde, natural blonde, etc, etc. I can guess gender, just don't be so offended by everything if I guess wrong. If I can guess wrong, you would have to admit that you might not be obviously leaning one way or another in terms of dress and outward appearance.

I never heard of gender fluid before this post as well, and my first thought was something you would find on the bathroom floor of a shop you were doing. Oh well, if that makes me old so be it. (PS: I realized I am totally not politically correct)

Orlando - lightly shopping NC

I guess on height but I have become accustomed to measuring people by things they are standing next to when taking a guess and I think I come pretty close. I obviously can tell how tall they are if they are my height (within an inch or so anyway). I remember how tall my dad was at 6'3" so that's pretty easy for me too. As far as blonde goes, yeah, that's sometimes subjective, as light brown and dark blonde are pretty close to the same thing.

Height and color are defined measurements even if they must be estimated. But gender is something that each person self-(re)defines and each person. Who is the shopper to define - or even know - a person's gender any more than that person's employer or government has such authority or knowledge?

Does it have a Y chromosome?
[www.biology-online.org]

"Let me offer you my definition of social justice: I keep what I earn and you keep what you earn. Do you disagree? Well then tell me how much of what I earn belongs to you - and why?” ~Walter Williams

Even shopping in CA, this is a non-issue for me. It has come up maybe twice in 20 years.

If the MSC wants gender fluid shoppers only, good luck. They can barely fit demographics when they need 25-49 year old males.

Gender is determined by DNA, not whether one decides to were a flannel shirt that day. No matter the paint job, an XY always looks like a man and an XX always looks like a woman.

"I told myself to quit you; but I don't listen to drunks." -Chris Stapleton

@SoCalMama wrote:

Even shopping in CA, this is a non-issue for me. It has come up maybe twice in 20 years.

If the MSC wants gender fluid shoppers only, good luck. They can barely fit demographics when they need 25-49 year old males.

I can still fill that demographic for another year and two months. LOL

Orlando - lightly shopping NC

True dat. Nonetheless, some people do a great job of gender disguise. I think this depends upon the basic body type or phase. A 'flat' chested woman can more easily perform as a flat chested male than a bumpy chested woman can- unless they are in a contest to see who looks most like Flip Wilson's Geraldine.

Nature does not hurry, yet everything is accomplished. - Lao-Tzu

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2018 01:13AM by Shop-et-al.

@HonnyBrown wrote:

Gender is determined by DNA, not whether one decides to were a flannel shirt that day. No matter the paint job, an XY always looks like a man and an XX always looks like a woman.

Aaaaaactually, you mean sex. Gender is a social construct. At least, by definition.

______________________________________________________________________
Seriously, nobody cares that you're offended.

@HonnyBrown wrote:

Gender is determined by DNA, not whether one decides to were a flannel shirt that day. No matter the paint job, an XY always looks like a man and an XX always looks like a woman.

Well, evidently there are some persons who aren't XY or XX.

And there's at least one genetic disease that gives a male very female characteristics (Marfan, I think it's called).

And, while I don't have the least problem with asking someone their name, I'm not about to ask them if they identify as male or female!

And I'm afraid -- even if it's culturally insensitive of me -- I'll never accept calling an individual "they" or "them" instead of he or she when only a small % of the population self-identify as something their physical appearance is in conflict with.

I just don't get it, I guess. Why risk annoying/insulting/offending 93% of the population for the 7% with an identity crises? Sure, if I know you, and you ASK me to not refer to you as her/him or she/he, I'll try to respect your wishes. Change your name from Jennifer to Jeffrey
(or from Mallory to Daniel).

And I do have sometimes problems with reporting gender, and wish "could not determine" was an option! I will never forget Gwendolyn, of the ham-sized wrists, football player shoulders, an Adam's apple the size of a soccer ball, long brown hair, professional makeup, and a deep voice!

To me it doesn’t matter. The choice we makes has very little value to our report. It’s just one element of a description. Just pick the most likely choice and move on, right?

______________________________________________________________________
Seriously, nobody cares that you're offended.

At one job, I am required to ask people how they identify sexually, with regards to gender, and the gender that was listed on their birth certificate.. YUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hate these questions because I personally do not care about these factoids. But I do my job. Recently, activists have requested that such information be included in research studies and reports. To date, I have not worked on a study which specifically seeks to identify events, situations, wonderfulness,and/or problems that are hypothesized to be related to sex/gender. The outcome of the work to date is that in recently aggregated data, persons who have provided such information have contributed to an additional demographic point of view. How important is this point of view to... whomever? I would not be surprised if such people are recruited for mystery shopping in order to test how other people behave with them in designated settings which do not involve the heat of activism moments or other provocations.

Nature does not hurry, yet everything is accomplished. - Lao-Tzu

@ceasesmith wrote:

Change your name from Jennifer to Jeffrey
(or from Mallory to Daniel) .

I GET THIS! I know who you're referring to!!

I share our collective frustration with a binary gender choice on shop evaluations when it is clear that the client employs individuals who do not fit into that strict binary. I live in a very liberal city in the Midwest. There has been more than one occasion where I did not feel comfortable applying a specific gender identity to a store employee. A man does not always look male and a woman does not always look female, despite some of the comments above. And, to claim that it "doesn't matter" is ridiculous, especially when the employee gets to view our report. I would be far more comfortable with the removal of this question. When an employee has a name like T*K!, it is easy to identify them.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2018 02:38AM by fujikochan.

To the majority, the cic-gendered folks, this might not seem like a big deal. To that minority, they are likely used to being classed incorrectly as male or female. If their employer stopped asking that question on a report it would promote a more inclusive atmosphere. Being used to something does not mean it is right. Questions of race have been removed from most reports. Why can't gender?

@ceasesmith wrote:

Well, evidently there are some persons who aren't XY or XX.

Yes, there are abnormalities. Still, if they have a Y chromosome, regardless of how many Xs, they are biologically classified as male.

When i'm unsure I choose male then leave a comment about the person being androgynous.

@ceasesmith wrote:

And I'm afraid -- even if it's culturally insensitive of me -- I'll never accept calling an individual "they" or "them"

Exactly! I don't care what name you want to be called. I'll call you Princess Grace if that's what your nametag says, regardless of your 5-o'clock shadow and prominent Adam's Apple. But I am not going to bastardize the language by referring to a singular person in the plural. Not happening.

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