There's always more to the stories we read than we know.

@JASFLALMT wrote:

But what else I know is wrong is for mlzg to send nasty, angry PMs to other forum members.

That's not right. Somebody needs to take a chill pill.

ETA: and now we know who needs the chill pill after all. Not who we thought!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2019 03:20AM by SoCalMama.

Hmm... I was messaged first and I responded. I figured the person wouldn't want to hear me out and was unfortunately proven to be correct. I said no point in going back and forth since I'm sure we won't be agreeing. (As in, no need to write me back, I likely won't read it) Is that nasty? Calling out transphobia is nasty? Okay, then I was nasty. I'm a teacher, too. Teachers should be open and willing to learn so they can provide a safe environment for their students. People in general who are privileged should be willing to hear out those who are not and try to understand. I got a bunch of emails that I have lots of private messages. I'm not interested in reading 10+ messages from angry people on the internet. I did not feel my private message was nasty, and it certainly wasn't more than one message. I forgot the username, but thanks to the person who tried with several responses to explain what I meant. I hope you all have a great day.

I didn't see the message, but I believed the forum member who told me it was angry and nasty. I had no idea you were messaged first, though. It does add a different perspective. I certainly hope you were civil and that everyone in the forum remembers to be kind to one another. I have been attacked by PM in the past (actually threatened by a banned forum member) and it's a little unsettling, even if I know that person isn't likely to find out where I live and follow through.

Ahh so not as dramatic as I thought. I only received 4 new private messages (all from the same person). Two of them have red flags next to them. I'm not going to bother reading them since I'm not planning on having a back and forth as I told the person in my response to the first message. I guess the other notifications were because I had "notify me" or whatever on this post. Never doing that again...I get too many emails as it is. I am not a big mystery shopper...just do a few restaurant shops every so often. I don't really need to be on here. It's just something to look through while I'm procrastinating or can't sleep. Maybe I will stop logging in. The private message thing was a bit excessive. I do wonder what the red flags signify, but I'm not curious enough to open the messages, ha!

If anyone is still reading this thread and is interested in learning how to be respectful of other people's pronouns, the show I recommended is very funny, touching, and overall amazing. The episode is 25 or so minutes long. It won't take up your whole day. One Day at a Time on Netflix: season 2, episode 3. They cover the topic in a very funny and cute way.

Take care -m

The red flags signify that the PM is unread. So if you only have 2 red flags you only have 2 new PMs.

Thanks so much for explaining! I guess a couple came in right after the other and those are what I read yesterday. The other two (red flag) came in later. I don't use the private messaging feature much. I'm very glad to know that doesn't mean the person was cursing or something like that!

People assuming I was "attacking" someone was a little annoying. Funny thing is the person who is telling people I was nasty to them has my same profession and I think we live in the same city. Maybe we will bump into each other at a conference one day and not even know it. Ha. It's a big city, but can also be a really small world.

Anyone feel like telling me how I go about deactivating my account? I can look it up myself as well of course.

@bgriffin wrote:

The red flags signify that the PM is unread. So if you only have 2 red flags you only have 2 new PMs.

It’s not necessary to deactivate. It sounds like we are now getting the real story anyway. You can just take a break and quit logging in for now.

I appreciate your response, SoCalMama. I'd rather deactivate. The private message center is not super user-friendly so I can't be sure, but I think I gave a couple people my full name & email address. I shouldn't have done that. I feel uncomfortable now, especially with someone so upset complaining about me to others and hmm I would say giving alternative facts. I don't need to be on here anyway.

@SoCalMama wrote:

It’s not necessary to deactivate. It sounds like we are now getting the real story anyway. You can just take a break and quit logging in for now.

I apologize for jumping the gun and stating that you sent PMs that were nasty and angry without having actually seen the messages for myself. If you gave a few people your name and email address, I doubt those people will use it in a negative way and I wouldn't worry about it too much. I don't know how to deactivate a forum account, but if for some reason you cannot find out how to do this yourself, you can contact the forum owner, JacobJ via PM and he can help you.

Thanks, Jasf.

My email address IS my full name... I should make a different one like back in the AOL days, ha. I don't think those folks would do anything negative and they seemed very kind. I guess you never know...when people feel their friends are "wronged" they could do something that goes too far. It was a long time ago, but I was stalked/harassed at age 14 by a 19 year old male. I thought he was a good friend...he told all of our friends he was 16 and we found out later he was 19. Five years age difference is a lifetime at that age. He got angry/aggressive when I turned down his advances and he gave my phone number to a bunch of his new young female friends and had them calling me from pay phones saying explicit things about me into our answering machine and to my parents...constantly to the point that my parents had to change our number (pre cell phone days). My mother was furious with me & grounded me for an entire month during summer break. They also egged my house, would ring the doorbell and run away, etc. Like I said, this was about 20 years ago now, but I guess I got anxious when I felt "ganged up on" and realized a couple people might have my info. It's funny how things can stick with you for so long.

I'll try the settings section again and if I can't figure it out, I will contact the person you suggested. Thank you so much for the tip! And no need to be sorry. We never know what someone else is going through/has been through and it's impossible to say exactly the right thing all the time. I could tell you were trying to defend your friend/stick up for the right thing. No biggie. I know I make plenty of mistakes every day. Thanks again

@JASFLALMT wrote:

I apologize for jumping the gun and stating that you sent PMs that were nasty and angry without having actually seen the messages for myself. If you gave a few people your name and email address, I doubt those people will use it in a negative way and I wouldn't worry about it too much. I don't know how to deactivate a forum account, but if for some reason you cannot find out how to do this yourself, you can contact the forum owner, JacobJ via PM and he can help you.

I can't even imagine how awful that must have been for you as a teenager. No one should have to go through anything like that, ever. Most of the folks in this forum are a decent lot and I'd wager they would not do anything to harm you or anyone else.

mlzg,

I know that you will do what you feel is best for you, but I appreciate your perspective here. I am also a teacher and have learned a lot about transgender folks and transphobia from my students. There are plenty of well meaning people who just have never interacted with many trans people and have not thought about their struggles at acceptance. It is important to educate as many people about what it means to be trans so that they can feel more support to be who they are. I’m a heterosexual cis woman, but I have made a point to learn what I can to support all my students to be their best selves. For a trans person to be continuously misgendered and “dead named” (using the person’s birth name instead of their chosen name) is taxing to them. Always having to explain themselves and be the one teaching can be hard. The more allies trans people have, the more the burden will be lifted from them.

I read a book about a trans girl’s journey, Becoming Nicole. Nicole was born Wyatt, and had a fraternal twin brother. It talks about the family’s transition along with Nicole. I thought it was very telling that Nicole’s brother said he always thought of her as a sister, always knew she was a girl, and didn’t care at all.

As to the original post, there should be a “gender not determined” option that triggers a comment box for explanation. Sometimes it is hard to tell, and some people are non-binary and don’t identify as male or female.

Yes. There should be an option for uncertainty or undetermined. There also should be an option for "I don't care'. I care about what people do when I am a real and fake customer. I do not care about how they identify themselves on the job or elsewhere. Many years into life on the earth plane, I have been bombarded with and have tired of all types of the sexual revolution and the attendant hoopla. (Think this makes me more of asexual than anything else. But I do not care enough to find out more about this, haha. ) I have had enough! As a result, I will not do many more shops because I dislike the questions about gender. This is one fator in releasing in a job which included questioning people about sex and/or gender.

*pre-caffeinated curmudgeon flings soapbox and goes in search of cuppa*

@walesmaven wrote:

The recognized (even by, for over a year now, The New York Times style book) non-gender specific pronoun is "they" (singular). Or, "their" (singular. This is also now in common use in many broadcast media and has been used on the forum by some for quite a long time.

Interesting fact related to this (that I recently learned) - the use of "they" as a pronoun actually goes back to about the 1300's. So, "everything old is new again".

@1cent wrote:

This is the safest bet if you have to make a binary choice. It is unfortunate that it assumes that women will be more understanding and that men will be more insecure about their gender. I don't agree that a woman who is perceived as masculine is necessarily trying one way or the other. I imagine most people want just to be.

Why is that unfortunate? I could go into basic biology and explain the reasons, but I assume we all know that and this is an attempt to paint males (those who possess a Y chromosome) and females (those who do not possess a Y chromosome) as the same. Although it's a generalization, it IS true that females tend to have different biology-driven personality characteristics than males.

Vive la difference!

@Stephanieteaches wrote:

mlzg,

I know that you will do what you feel is best for you, but I appreciate your perspective here. I am also a teacher and have learned a lot about transgender folks and transphobia from my students. There are plenty of well meaning people who just have never interacted with many trans people and have not thought about their struggles at acceptance. It is important to educate as many people about what it means to be trans so that they can feel more support to be who they are. I’m a heterosexual cis woman, but I have made a point to learn what I can to support all my students to be their best selves. For a trans person to be continuously misgendered and “dead named” (using the person’s birth name instead of their chosen name) is taxing to them. Always having to explain themselves and be the one teaching can be hard. The more allies trans people have, the more the burden will be lifted from them.

I read a book about a trans girl’s journey, Becoming Nicole. Nicole was born Wyatt, and had a fraternal twin brother. It talks about the family’s transition along with Nicole. I thought it was very telling that Nicole’s brother said he always thought of her as a sister, always knew she was a girl, and didn’t care at all.

As to the original post, there should be a “gender not determined” option that triggers a comment box for explanation. Sometimes it is hard to tell, and some people are non-binary and don’t identify as male or female.

Good post. It is a pity @mlzg was repeatedly degenerated by an individual on this forum. Sadly, some folks are just closed minded I guess.

@MickeyB wrote:

@JASFLALMT wrote:

I always admit when I AM wrong, but I find it really irritating when others can't do the same (mlzg).

mlzg didn't misunderstand you - they were saying that they wish there were no gender specific pronouns, which you and others have repeatedly used in multiple posts including the one you reference.

And they were also making the point that gender is determined not by the parts in which you are born, but the whom you chose to identify with - so in the example, the student was a girl, not a boy. They were making a very pointed remark, and your misunderstanding of what their statement meant in some ways proved the point they were trying to make.

@MickeyB well put. Intolerance and lack of education on social issues needs addressing whenever possible.

@iShop123 wrote:

@1cent wrote:

This is the safest bet if you have to make a binary choice. It is unfortunate that it assumes that women will be more understanding and that men will be more insecure about their gender. I don't agree that a woman who is perceived as masculine is necessarily trying one way or the other. I imagine most people want just to be.

Why is that unfortunate? I could go into basic biology and explain the reasons, but I assume we all know that and this is an attempt to paint males (those who possess a Y chromosome) and females (those who do not possess a Y chromosome) as the same. Although it's a generalization, it IS true that females tend to have different biology-driven personality characteristics than males.

Vive la difference!

Different people are also socialized differently. Just because you can make generalized observations about behavior along gender lines doesn't mean you can derive an ought from what is.

Men don't need to be insecure if they are perceived as "unmanly" in some way. Women shouldn't be expected to be more understanding about something perceived as a slight. But just maybe the whole thing could not be seen as insulting to anyone.

Degenerated? LOL!!!!!

@Book wrote:

Good post. It is a pity @mlzg was repeatedly degenerated by an individual on this forum. Sadly, some folks are just closed minded I guess.

Well, at least they were not degenitalized?

Mmm. So I got all caffeinated and re-visited the thread. I still do not care. Now, I should have a few Wheaties and hurl the soapboax into a dark hole in deepest space...

@1cent wrote:

Different people are also socialized differently. Just because you can make generalized observations about behavior along gender lines doesn't mean you can derive an ought from what is.

Men don't need to be insecure if they are perceived as "unmanly" in some way. Women shouldn't be expected to be more understanding about something perceived as a slight. But just maybe the whole thing could not be seen as insulting to anyone.

Do you understand what a generalization is?

I agree with you that men shouldn't be insecure if they are perceived as "unmanly" in some way. That doesn't mean they aren't. And women shouldn't be expected to be more understanding about something perceived as a slight. That doesn't mean they aren't.

ETA: fixed open quote tag



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2019 06:03PM by iShop123.

@iShop123 wrote:

@1cent wrote:

Different people are also socialized differently. Just because you can make generalized observations about behavior along gender lines doesn't mean you can derive an ought from what is.

Men don't need to be insecure if they are perceived as "unmanly" in some way. Women shouldn't be expected to be more understanding about something perceived as a slight. But just maybe the whole thing could not be seen as insulting to anyone.

Do you understand what a generalization is?

I agree with you that men shouldn't be insecure if they are perceived as "unmanly" in some way. That doesn't mean they aren't. And women shouldn't be expected to be more understanding about something perceived as a slight. That doesn't mean they aren't.

ETA: fixed open quote tag

That’s what I said.