I applied for a mystery motorcycle shop. I was aged out, they wanted 21 to 59. I'm 66. Have no problem with that. The next requirement stunned me.

"IMPORTANT: Female shoppers must have a motorcycle license/endorsement for any MOTORCYCLE assignment. (NOTE: You may be asked to provide proof of endorsement by the salesperson, or (Mystery shop company)…..)'...…

clearly this is discrimination. Is someone looking for the best looking women?

What in the world would being good looking have to do with this? Yes, it's gender discrimination for only female shoppers to have a motorcycle license and not males. I DGARA personally. But again, it has nothing to do with looks as far as I can tell.

Other MSCs might provide comparison shops for age, gender, integrity (proof or license), etc.

The client has a target demographic for their product. Their target might or might reflect reality, but it is their advertising target audience. I think that it is quite reasonable for the client to want shoppers who reflect the target demographic. Does not wanting 30 year-olds mean that other people do not buy motorcycles? No! It just means that they want shoppers representative of their "bread and butter" actual buyers. Are they missing a market? Maybe, but that is not our concern. They are not discriminating against buyers of the motorcycle. They are matching the shoppers to the audience that view as buyers of motorcycles. Presumably, the client knows that very few women shop for motorcycles (why is irrelevant and they might even be wrong), so they want to ensure that any women are indeed knowledgeable motorcycle buyers/riders.

A little heavy on the discrimination, but let’s face it...a guy walking into a motorcycle dealer probably isn’t being asked for a license right off the bat. Most women are going to looked at like they are lost. It is what it is.

I own five motorcycles and taught my husband how to ride. The stereotypes are strong with that shop. My username even reflects my main motorcycle, a Yamaha FZ-09.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2019 05:04PM by Niner.

Niner, you are perfect for my instant market analysis! When you go into a motorcycle store, what is the percentage of men versus women? How many first-time buyers who walk in are women? I still don't think that this is discrimination, but rather an attempt to match the demographics of the shopper to their actual prospective customers. Are they missing a huge number of potential buyers? Maybe. But that is for their marketing department to address.

@Niner wrote:

I own five motorcycles and taught my husband how to ride. The stereotypes are strong with that shop. My username even reflects my main motorcycle, a Yamaha FZ-09.

Like I wrote in my post, IDGARA (I don't give a rat's ass). But I still am not sure how it's related to how good looking someone is.

Car babes. Biker chicks. Opposite of me. Sex sells.

That is not what John was saying. He didn't say anything about car babes or biker chicks, he wrote that female shoppers may be asked to provide proof of endorsement. So what does that have to do with someone being good looking is my question.

John wrote: You may be asked to provide proof of endorsement by the salesperson, or (Mystery shop company)…..)'...…clearly this is discrimination. Is someone looking for the best looking women?

@Shop-et-al wrote:

Car babes. Biker chicks. Opposite of me. Sex sells.

@JASFLALMT wrote:

Like I wrote in my post, IDGARA (I don't give a rat's ass). But I still am not sure how it's related to how good looking someone is.

Thanks for telling me what IDGARA means. I like that!

@myst4au wrote:

The client has a target demographic for their product. Their target might or might reflect reality, but it is their advertising target audience. I think that it is quite reasonable for the client to want shoppers who reflect the target demographic. Does not wanting 30 year-olds mean that other people do not buy motorcycles? No! It just means that they want shoppers representative of their "bread and butter" actual buyers. Are they missing a market? Maybe, but that is not our concern. They are not discriminating against buyers of the motorcycle. They are matching the shoppers to the audience that view as buyers of motorcycles. Presumably, the client knows that very few women shop for motorcycles (why is irrelevant and they might even be wrong), so they want to ensure that any women are indeed knowledgeable motorcycle buyers/riders.

Actually, I have seen this shop and wondered the same thing. They are open to male or female shoppers. But they have a different criteria for approving female shoppers. If male, you're good to go if you meet the age requirements. If female, you have to have / prove the motorcycle endorsement AND meet the age requirement.

On the basic of gender alone, the bar is brazenly set higher for female shoppers to qualify for this shop.

It's possible this is being driven by a sales process that screens female purchasers differently than males. Perhaps potential customers who are female that drop in to the showroom are asked to show the endorsement whereas male prospects are not.

I know a lot of men who no experience or interest in motorcycling, and who may even have a contempt for them. Consequently they would be laughable trying to do this shop. But they'd have no trouble being assigned to this shop.

Why are they uninterested in whether their male shopper can speak intelligently about motorcycles? Why aren't all potential shoppers asked to prove some familiarity? Is the gender bias in their sales force so strong that a clueless male could pull off the shop but a female who may or may not have better background (or worse) could not, on the basis of gender alone?

There's a whole lot of good questions this raises.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2019 09:28PM by JustForFun.

@myst4au wrote:

Niner, you are perfect for my instant market analysis! When you go into a motorcycle store, what is the percentage of men versus women? How many first-time buyers who walk in are women? I still don't think that this is discrimination, but rather an attempt to match the demographics of the shopper to their actual prospective customers. Are they missing a huge number of potential buyers? Maybe. But that is for their marketing department to address.

@Niner wrote:

I own five motorcycles and taught my husband how to ride. The stereotypes are strong with that shop. My username even reflects my main motorcycle, a Yamaha FZ-09.

There usually aren't many people in the shops. It's a dying industry. If there are people buying, they are probably men. The people we ride with are split about 2/3 men and 1/3 women.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2019 10:42PM by Niner.

Good grief. The world has gone mad.

You just now realized that?

Since when are woman bikers good looking?

Mmmm, I have seen a few, my sister used to hang with some bikers back in the 80s--she had a cool Triumph herself, and she was a babe back in the day. I knew another gal in Florida who was a pretty lady, but she was just a trophy on the seat and actually didn't own or handle a bike herself.

@Irene_L.A. wrote:

Since when are woman bikers good looking?

Is there a reason they can't be??

Haven't seen any, and since I'm not an authority on this, I guess there's no reason they can't be, just haven't seen any....sorry, wasn't meant to offend you.

Unfortunately I let my license expire. I do, however, have my "Dykes on Bikes" card.

I'm a 55 y/o female who knows nothing about motorcycles. Therefore, I do not accept these shops. What purpose would it serve to fake an unintelligent conversation with a salesman and have him unfairly judged by that conversation? It doesn't bother me that they request serious female shoppers only.

There are many shops with age restrictions. They are not discriminating, they are targeting areas that need to be addressed.

I am in sales. I am naturally more patient with older customers, it's human nature.

My sister rides, so does her husband. I do find it questionable that only females would have to have AZ valid license.

John, is it your perception that if a female has a motorcycle license then your state has a standard of appearance they must pass?

If you email the scheduler she will waive the license requirement. I did this shop and had the best time. I am 55 and would love to own an Indian. It is an easy and fun shop. I was nervous at first but the salesperson was really nice and put me at ease.

@Lstockwell wrote:

If you email the scheduler she will waive the license requirement. I did this shop and had the best time. I am 55 and would love to own an Indian. It is an easy and fun shop. I was nervous at first but the salesperson was really nice and put me at ease.

I have a 2016 Indian Scout, and it's mostly a great bike. It's fast and well balanced. But, it's not reliable.

Before I comment, It is my opinion the overwhelming amount of correctness is BS.

It is seldom all will agree on any facet of life, but, this situation is different in that there are most absolutely more female than male shoppers; I do not have any manner by which to ascertain the gender breakdown. In addition, having ridden for 50 years, there are also more male than female bike drivers; my best guess in Ohio is a 90/10 split. Assuming I am correct, it is my opinion the composer of the requirement was merely being cautious concerning the client's wishes and attempting to prevent a problem before it occurred.

Folks, life can be tough when your skin is thin, especially in self-employment.

A female shopper would probably have to arrive wearing her "Dykes on Bikes" leather jacket to avoid having to prove that she had a license.

The only problem I would have is having to show the salesperson my license. Is my word not good enough for you? Why would they believe a man who says he has one but not a woman?

dmm316 asks--Is my word not good enough for you?

Bob's comment-This is business. When I request a 10 to 20% discount at Texas Roadhouse, I am required to present my VA card, not my word, proving I am a veteran.

dmm316 also inquires--Why would they believe a man who says he has one but not a woman?

Bob replies--Who knows? To my mind, that is the prerogative of the business owner. If I decline the Roadhouse worker's request for my VA card, I accept I will be paying the full price for my meal. Whether or not said employee asks another diner for proof of service is none of my concern.

I have done many of these shops and did not need to ever show a license at the actual store.

The license is to "prove" to the MSC that you are "qualified" to do the shop. The motorcycle shop is not going to ask to see it. (

@dmm316 wrote:

The only problem I would have is having to show the salesperson my license. Is my word not good enough for you? Why would they believe a man who says he has one but not a woman?