Somehow it had escaped me that the annual fee for the Surpass card also produced a free night each year. right now, I am busy charging everything to another card to get a sign-up bonus of 2 nights. Have marked my calendar to upgrade to the AMEX Surpass for Hilton when I have met that goal, which will be a matter of a couple of weeks. And, there will be a large rewards point bonus (worth 2-3 free nights, depending on where I stay) for that, as well.

@walesmaven wrote:

Somehow it had escaped me that the annual fee for the Surpass card also produced a free night each year. right now, I am busy charging everything to another card to get a sign-up bonus of 2 nights. Have marked my calendar to upgrade to the AMEX Surpass for Hilton when I have met that goal, which will be a matter of a couple of weeks. And, there will be a large rewards point bonus (worth 2-3 free nights, depending on where I stay) for that, as well.

*Free night after $15k annual spend.

Hmm, time to look at the fine print again. I could do that but at the cost of points earned that might have been on other cards, so a little analysis seems to be in order.

Edited to add. Thank you. Because they use a calendar year for determining that minimum spend, I may be better off if I make the change in late December 2020. Time to see how close I am right now to meeting the spend level on another card to get that bonus. Decisions, decisions!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2020 03:37PM by walesmaven.

@walesmaven wrote:

Hmm, time to look at the fine print again. I could do that but at the cost of points earned on other cards, so a little analysis seems to be in order.

You may know this already, but signup bonuses for AMEX is once per lifetime per “product.” 125k or whatever their offering for their Surpass card is okay for only being only a $2k spend requirement if you haven’t received a bonus for this particular card yet.... The difference from back then was that they offered 100k points with waiving the first year of the $95 annual fee. Now, the change is spread across the board where they inflate the bonus (in this case to 125k) while NOT waiving the annual fee for the first year.

EDIT: Thanks to bgriffin for correcting me. Though the sign-up bonuses are once per lifetimes, that doesn't mean AMEX won't offer other bonuses via targeted offers. But it's always good to hold off until the card bonus they're offering is at its peak. Unfortunately, the golden days of credit card bonuses appear to be coming to an end now... :'(



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2020 05:03PM by Tarantado.

When considering the Citi Prestige, be aware most of the travel delay and price protection benefits have been removed. No travel delay coverage was a deal-breaker for me.

@Tarantado wrote:

You may know this already, but signup bonuses for AMEX is once per lifetime per “product.” 125k or whatever their offering for their Surpass card is okay for only being only a $2k spend requirement if you haven’t received a bonus for this particular card yet.... The difference from back then was that they offered 100k points with waiving the first year of the $95 annual fee. Now, the change is spread across the board where they inflate the bonus (in this case to 125k) while NOT waiving the annual fee for the first year.

I don't think this includes bonuses for a product change though normally. Again fine print is important.

IE if you have the base card and you are offered a 100k points bonus for upgrading to Surpass, that is normally independent of having gotten a sign up bonus on the Surpass before. At least I think that's how it works.

@callinectes wrote:

When considering the Citi Prestige, be aware most of the travel delay and price protection benefits have been removed. No travel delay coverage was a deal-breaker for me.

Not only that but the bigger benefit of 4th night free when booked through their portal has been defaulted even more significantly. It has been capped at 2 times per year and I have heard in most cases the 3 night booking is almost as much as a 4 night booking directly from the hotel chain sites, and you lose rewards benefits.

@bgriffin wrote:

I don't think this includes bonuses for a product change though normally. Again fine print is important.

IE if you have the base card and you are offered a 100k points bonus for upgrading to Surpass, that is normally independent of having gotten a sign up bonus on the Surpass before. At least I think that's how it works.

You're absolutely right. Targeted offers should be independent. One card that came to mind for me was the old SPG card... Got the initial sign-up bonus for 35,000 points, then received another bonus offer of I believe 10,000? before Marriott transitioned to the Bonvoy system.

@callinectes wrote:

When considering the Citi Prestige, be aware most of the travel delay and price protection benefits have been removed. No travel delay coverage was a deal-breaker for me.

Ouch. That's HUGE. Back in the day, I preferred this card over the Chase Sapphire Reserve and AMEX Platinum for the 4th night bonus.....

@bgriffin wrote:

Not only that but the bigger benefit of 4th night free when booked through their portal has been defaulted even more significantly. It has been capped at 2 times per year and I have heard in most cases the 3 night booking is almost as much as a 4 night booking directly from the hotel chain sites, and you lose rewards benefits.

I was super disappointed when Citi announced that they nerfed the 4th night offers.... That used to save me tons on international hotels...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2020 05:01PM by Tarantado.

I have no interest in travel delay insurance. I've never used it and 99% of my flights I would not be eligible to use it anyway. But the 4th night free was huge. That and 5x on restaurants were the 2 biggest reasons the card was on my list of future cards. Since there are 0 hotel transfer options I'm fairly certain I'll be staying away from it. I had also planned to upgrade my Sapphire Preferred to Reserve when it became upgrade eligible in July. With the $100 higher annual fee and $0 increased benefit for me that idea has been dropped too. I think my premium cards will end up being Amex Platinum, Hilton Aspire, and Marriott Brilliant.

@bgriffin wrote:

I have no interest in travel delay insurance. I've never used it and 99% of my flights I would not be eligible to use it anyway. But the 4th night free was huge. That and 5x on restaurants were the 2 biggest reasons the card was on my list of future cards. Since there are 0 hotel transfer options I'm fairly certain I'll be staying away from it. I had also planned to upgrade my Sapphire Preferred to Reserve when it became upgrade eligible in July. With the $100 higher annual fee and $0 increased benefit for me that idea has been dropped too. I think my premium cards will end up being Amex Platinum, Hilton Aspire, and Marriott Brilliant.

There has to have been a flight with at least more than 12 hours delayed in your past due to weather delays. Whenever that happens, travel delay triggers and is probably the easiest process to obtaining $500 in reimbursed goods in a single day.

Trip delay coverage on my CSR has saved me mega-bucks more than once. Now that AMEX Plat has the same coverage as CSR I may be downgrading it to a Freedom.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2020 06:04PM by callinectes.

I fly nonrev though, it won't cover anything.

@bgriffin wrote:

I fly nonrev though, it won't cover anything.

Ohhhh gotcha. That makes total sense now.... Lucky.

@bgriffin @Tarantado

If I want to upgrade to the $95 a year Hilton Am Ex, is that going to count as a new card as far as longevity? I have had the Am Ex for over 30 years. I don't want that to show as closed and have a new one open with 0 years.

Y'all wear me out with your wheeling and dealing and churning. Props to you though.

@SoCalMama wrote:

@bgriffin @Tarantado

If I want to upgrade to the $95 a year Hilton Am Ex, is that going to count as a new card as far as longevity? I have had the Am Ex for over 30 years. I don't want that to show as closed and have a new one open with 0 years.

Y'all wear me out with your wheeling and dealing and churning. Props to you though.

As a data point for you, I've product-changed my AMEX Blue Cash (no annual fee) to an AMEX Blue Preferred ($95 annual fee), then back to AMEX Blue Cash (no annual fee).

On my credit report across the three bureaus, the credit line is identified as the same line... In other words, I initially signed up for the AMEX Blue Cash back in 2013. Through my product changes above, there were no changes to that credit line.

As long as you product change your current card, you should be able to go back and forth between products; however, I'm almost sure you won't qualify for the currently available 125k point sign-up bonus, mainly because the card is from a product change, as opposed to a completely new credit line.

Hope that answers your question! It also doesn't hurt to get confirmation via AMEX's rep, just in case, for both your concern on your credit line question and also the sign-up bonus.
-------------------------
Also, as an aside, but mainly another consideration to think about on the direction to go with your interest on the Hilton Surpass, is if you're open to business cards, meaning the Hilton Surpass business card equivalent.

Assuming you're not maxed out on the number of AMEX credit cards under your SSN, which is 5 [not counting charge cards (e.g. Platinum, Gold, etc.) or other credit card issuers using the AMEX network (FNBO TravElite, Wells Fargo Propel, etc.)], you can potentially open an AMEX Hilton Business card with a $95 AND grabbing that sweet 125k Hilton Points signup bonus. Going this route, you'll have 2 Hilton cards, your personal 'no annual fee' Hilton card AND your new $95 annual fee Hilton business card.

The benefits to business cards:
1. From my personal knowledge, the bureaus account for the hard check, but not the credit line itself on your personal credit (crazy, right?). I'll have to double check this again for Equifax and TransUnion (EDIT: Confirmed; business cards also don't show up under Equifax or TransUnion), but I know for a fact that my business cards do not show under Experian, based on my recent business ventures that required them to pull my credit.
2. Because it's not on your personal credit, any credit balances will not affect your utilization, whether that's seen a good or bad thing.

The flaw in this is that I believe there are no product changes you can do for the Hilton Business card, if you no longer want it. This would of course can be confirmed with an AMEX rep.

Sorry for the long-winded response, but you probably tell my odd interest in the credit card game! lol



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2020 11:59PM by Tarantado.

Salamat Tarantado. That's what I needed to know.

Business cards reporting is card issuer dependent not report dependent. Amex business cards do not report, Capital One business cards do. The plus for Amex is they will often only soft pull if you already have a card. I got the Amex Business Delta Gold card a couple of weeks ago with an elevated sign up bonus and never got a hard pull from it.

I don't think that I need a business card. I only have one Am Ex now. Jet Blue used to be Am Ex and went to MC a few years ago.

I might have DH open a Marriott/Sheraton card. He is likely going to spend around 20-30 weeks a year at a Sheraton in China (provided that we don't all die from this virus).

@bgriffin wrote:

Business cards reporting is card issuer dependent not report dependent. Amex business cards do not report, Capital One business cards do. The plus for Amex is they will often only soft pull if you already have a card. I got the Amex Business Delta Gold card a couple of weeks ago with an elevated sign up bonus and never got a hard pull from it.

Didn’t know that’s for Capital One; thanks!

As far as product changes are concerned you can normally product change within categories. So you would be able to PC your base Hilton card to either the Surpass or Aspire but you couldn't PC to the Amex Marriott Brilliant.

When you call ask for a bonus to upgrade. If they don't offer one just wait. You'll get one eventually, and the extra points will be more than worth the wait.

@SoCalMama wrote:

I don't think that I need a business card. I only have one Am Ex now. Jet Blue used to be Am Ex and went to MC a few years ago.

I might have DH open a Marriott/Sheraton card. He is likely going to spend around 20-30 weeks a year at a Sheraton in China (provided that we don't all die from this virus).

Must be nice! Can’t speak for China, but the Sheraton’s and especially Marriott’s I’ve visited internationally are like Ritz-Carlton’s for some reason, including their lounges. The Marriott at The Manila World Resort was easily comparable to a Ritz-Carlton stateside!

@Tarantado wrote:

@SoCalMama wrote:

I don't think that I need a business card. I only have one Am Ex now. Jet Blue used to be Am Ex and went to MC a few years ago.

I might have DH open a Marriott/Sheraton card. He is likely going to spend around 20-30 weeks a year at a Sheraton in China (provided that we don't all die from this virus).

Must be nice! Can’t speak for China, but the Sheraton’s and especially Marriott’s I’ve visited internationally are like Ritz-Carlton’s for some reason, including their lounges. The Marriott at The Manila World Resort was easily comparable to a Ritz-Carlton stateside!

Yeah it is nice. Just me and the cat at home.

It's like $100 a day for an executive suite and access to the lounge (free American food). Lunch is like $1 take out at the office. Maybe less?

Minimum wage is $2 a day there I believe? Don't get me started.