I was under the impression much of the reason for handouts to individuals was for them to stay home and not have to work and spread the virus, at least until we improve our treatment capability. It also was to protect real estate interests, banks, manufacturers, and other business sectors that rely on consumer payments of rent, mortgages, credit card payments, and other purchases. Putting money into the hands of regular people was just a side effect.

@Tarantado wrote:

I agree in all aspects of your post. However, the reality is that most American simply struggle to make ends meet, in all income levels. Even a portion of the middle class (Those that make more than $99k, or $199k married) was left out of that $1,200 stimulus payment, as they did NO adjustment for cities with high cost of living. Most Americans live check to check, whether it's their choice or not.

Lets think about "essentials". Cell phones. A single land line shared by a family could help keep the wolf from the door. Cable/streaming services. I get news, PBS and network TV from an antenna that cost under $20. I can borrow movies from the library or buy them for a couple of bucks from Goodwill. Vehicles. Often a recent used car is a whole lot wiser than a lease on a new one. Since we use a car for more than 10 years with few repairs since we make sure they get service as recommended in the manual, it would be foolish for us to lease. Food. Cooking at home is cheaper and generally healthier than eating out--even cheaper than fast foods through the drive thru.

When you talk about making ends meet you have to look at what is on the rope you are trying to pull to make them meet. Are you paying off that 'Appliance Package' that you got when you really only needed a new refrigerator? Are you content with a 3 year old cell phone that still works but doesn't have all the bells and whistles? The kid needs shoes. Do you exercise parental prerogative and get the practical $40 ones or spring for the $140 'status' ones?

The problem is wanting more than you can afford. As long as folks feel they 'deserve' what they want they will have issues making ends meet. Only in very few cases do Americans NEED to live check to check. It is most frequently a choice of what they are willing to spend their money on. And I recognize this is not always the case. We have had a dozen years since the beginning of the last recession/depression and too many folks have apparently learned nothing from the experience.

@mystery2me wrote:

I was under the impression much of the reason for handouts to individuals was for them to stay home and not have to work and spread the virus, at least until we improve our treatment capability. It also was to protect real estate interests, banks, manufacturers, and other business sectors that rely on consumer payments of rent, mortgages, credit card payments, and other purchases. Putting money into the hands of regular people was just a side effect.

I'm sure, but now the CNA getting paid $12-15/hour (yes, that's the norm out here in Colorado) would rather find a way to get laid off and get paid more, instead of working their normal job, due to extremely attractive $600/week bump from the stimulus on top of their expected unemployment pay, which is ~50-60% of gross wages and capped at ~$618/week BEFORE adding on the $500/week stimulus benefit.

@Flash wrote:

@Tarantado wrote:

I agree in all aspects of your post. However, the reality is that most American simply struggle to make ends meet, in all income levels. Even a portion of the middle class (Those that make more than $99k, or $199k married) was left out of that $1,200 stimulus payment, as they did NO adjustment for cities with high cost of living. Most Americans live check to check, whether it's their choice or not.

Lets think about "essentials". Cell phones. A single land line shared by a family could help keep the wolf from the door. Cable/streaming services. I get news, PBS and network TV from an antenna that cost under $20. I can borrow movies from the library or buy them for a couple of bucks from Goodwill. Vehicles. Often a recent used car is a whole lot wiser than a lease on a new one. Since we use a car for more than 10 years with few repairs since we make sure they get service as recommended in the manual, it would be foolish for us to lease. Food. Cooking at home is cheaper and generally healthier than eating out--even cheaper than fast foods through the drive thru.

When you talk about making ends meet you have to look at what is on the rope you are trying to pull to make them meet. Are you paying off that 'Appliance Package' that you got when you really only needed a new refrigerator? Are you content with a 3 year old cell phone that still works but doesn't have all the bells and whistles? The kid needs shoes. Do you exercise parental prerogative and get the practical $40 ones or spring for the $140 'status' ones?

The problem is wanting more than you can afford. As long as folks feel they 'deserve' what they want they will have issues making ends meet. Only in very few cases do Americans NEED to live check to check. It is most frequently a choice of what they are willing to spend their money on. And I recognize this is not always the case. We have had a dozen years since the beginning of the last recession/depression and too many folks have apparently learned nothing from the experience.

Flash, one thing I learned a loooooooong time ago, is that we can preach how someone can effectively spend their money and make ends meet, but we're just preaching to the choir and most of what's going in their ears is going out the other lol.

I completely, completely agree with ya again in all aspects of your post, and if you're familiar with my background and what I've posted openly on this forum, I'm as frugal as they come, good with my money and focused on cost-effectiveness.

The reality is like I said, most Americans, spanning all income levels, suck with their money and genuinely living pay check to pay check.

@shopper8 wrote:

How has the CoronaVirus affected you?

COVID-19 has had a small effect in my world, but there are a few things that I consider. Hubby and I each lost about $300 per month for the foreseeable future due to shutdowns and closures that indirectly affect our work. With my free time, I had an opportunity to think about different response styles. Eventually, I found an article about differential gender responses during a life-threatening event. During the Holocaust. men and women had different sabotage styles regarding the confiscation/theft of and redistribution of their property. One example was the theft and re-assignment of lined fur coats. To sabotage, men slashed fur coats and destroyed the linings. No one would want to wear only the pelts. Women stitched notes into the coats which identified the coats as the former property of murdered Jews. Since COVID-19 respects no demographic, that was just an example from history and selected because this is women's history month. No one should feel slighted. There is no dearth of examples for the point and there is probably something for everyone in the world's history.

I would not suggest that different responses to COVID-19 are gender based. They seem to be philosophical and/or political. For example, Tarantado suggests that some people would rather exploit available resources instead of going to work. Who, exactly, are those people? I am not one of them. In fact, I would rather earn some of my money. This is significant for an ol' lady who once was told that she could never work again. Ever. Anywhere. At all. Forever. And ever. Amen. And don't ask again. ! Years later, I might be eligible to receive unemployment insurance. Who knew?! !

Another philosophical/political difference is happening in Sweden. Will that country's laid-back government be able to continue its relatively low-key approach to COVID-19? Time will tell...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2020 06:25PM by Shop-et-al.

A single landline in 2020, really? Have you tried keeping a smart phone for years? Most are designed to become useless within just a few years and with some it is impossible to repair them or the cost versus new is ridiculous. In one post you think people should work two and three jobs while in another you blame them for relying on FF rather than cooking at home. In between all those jobs when are they supposed to cook or take the time to peruse all the local sales circulars and shop multiple stores? It seems you have an opinion you apply across the board. Of course there are people who squander money, some who received no education on the subject and others who are just irresponsible. That is no excuse to ignore those who do not or to assume it applies to the vast majority. I'm all for some frugality too. But at what point does it become a miserable existence where some are not allowed to have the smallest amount of amusement or entertainment? That sounds like a return to the feudal system.

The average salary in the US is about $1100 a week. CO might pay unemployment at a $600 cap but most states cap it between $300 and $400 with most southern states under $300. Georgia is $330, Alabama is $275, Mississippi is $235, Tennessee is $275. I could go on and on. While there are certainly people who will find it better to draw unemployment if possible there are millions who will still struggle to survive with the additional $600.

@LisaSTL wrote:

A single landline in 2020, really? Have you tried keeping a smart phone for years? Most are designed to become useless within just a few years and with some it is impossible to repair them or the cost versus new is ridiculous. In one post you think people should work two and three jobs while in another you blame them for relying on FF rather than cooking at home. In between all those jobs when are they supposed to cook or take the time to peruse all the local sales circulars and shop multiple stores? It seems you have an opinion you apply across the board. Of course there are people who squander money, some who received no education on the subject and others who are just irresponsible. That is no excuse to ignore those who do not or to assume it applies to the vast majority. I'm all for some frugality too. But at what point does it become a miserable existence where some are not allowed to have the smallest amount of amusement or entertainment? That sounds like a return to the feudal system.

Yes, we have a landline. I have a cell phone for emergencies when I am away from the house. It was purchased used and I have had it for about 3 years. It works. I haven't touched it in more than a week because I haven't been out on my own. I don't give out the number because it rarely is even turned on.

I am saying that some folks feel they need to work two or three jobs just to get by. My reaction is that if they prioritize they would probably be able to get by on one, perhaps two jobs. If you have not noticed that prepared foods and fast food are more expensive than cooking at home, wake up. My opinion is that adults should take care of themselves and of those who depend upon them. A dollar not wasted is worth more than another dollar of income that still will be taxed and have FICA taken from it. Our opinions of 'waste' are obviously different, though I think we can agree that 'waste' is money you don't really need to spend.

Amusement and entertainment is a very broad category. I can be amused and entertained by trying new recipes, playing chess with my son, reading a book from the library, making up a big batch of popcorn and with family watching a classic old movie borrowed from the public library, growing a garden from seed, going fishing, sitting on the porch on a spring evening 'visiting'. None of these things will make even a slight dent in the budget. I do not need to go to the Fair to be entertained. I don't need to see the latest movie as soon as it is released. I don't need to go out on a boat to fish. There are a whole lot of things that can make a rich and rewarding quality of life that don't cost money!

We stopped using a landline phone years ago. My cell phone paid for itself with app gigs and its contribution to other work-related tasks. The hubby uses his cell phone every day for his job (he works every day). This would not be possible if we had only a landline. Meanwhile, libraries are closed and it is too cold to be outdoors.

Fortunately, I have books to read and things to watch. I have beautiful things to listen to when I am here. Some people think this is absurd. I know how wonderful it is to be only a few billion volumes shy of a worthy international collection.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/27/2020 07:47PM by Shop-et-al.

We still have a landline and probably always will. We have a corded phone so if the power goes out and there is no cell phone service, we can call for help if we need to do so, or call businesses or other people with landlines.

For the next few months, I don't need my cell phone since I am self-quarantining, but I DO rely on it heavily for work, whenever I have work again in the future. It has apps I use to report shops, and app to do my audits and other work projects. I use it to clock in and out for some my merchandising jobs, and often Geoverify is required for shops. I sometimes have to take photos for audits and other work tasks.

As far as getting movies from the library, not only do I not want to go to the library and risk exposing myself to pathogens, they can also live on hard surfaces (DVDs, books). No way.

I am not one who is living paycheck to paycheck and sitting home for a few months isn't going to affect my quality of life. We have lots of home projects to tend to and the weather is warming, so looking forward to starting a garden within the next month or so.

Of course everyone's "must have" and what they find amusing or entertaining are different. My argument here is to make the choices conscious CHOICES that fit within the available funding and have one of those CHOICES be savings for the unexpected. If your CHOICES mean you must work multiple jobs perhaps some soul searching is needed.

I have always encouraged folks to have goals for their mystery shopping so that when they get discouraged they can keep their eyes on the prize. It never was, is or will be a guaranteed income, though a number of folks can adjust their expenditures to hustle up enough work to pay the bills. For most folks it is more appropriate as savings for some particular goal.

[www.cnbc.com]

@ wrote:

President Donald Trump has ordered General Motors to make ventilators under the Defense Production Act hours after criticizing the company for not acting quickly enough to produce the supplies amid the coronavirus pandemic.

Didn't know about this Defense Production Act. Glad to hear we're going to make ventilators. Hurry up!

@Flash wrote:

I can be amused and entertained by ... sitting on the porch on a spring evening 'visiting'.

Many years ago, I had the pleasure of visiting a friend's family in Trenton, Missouri. His mom took me on a walking tour of the "downtown" area. We must have stopped at least 10 times while she "visited" with friends and neighbors, and she included me in the conversations.

It was one of the nicest vacations that I ever had.

@Jill_L wrote:

Has anyone been hearing people talk about the fact that they think that COVID19 was here in Dec and maybe Nov? And the people who are talking about this are also mentioning how VERY sick they were in Dec/Jan and how VERY long the sickness lasted

My friends and I have been discussing this. One friend had a VERY nasty "flu" that left her helpless and bedridden for weeks. The doc said it was flu, but he did not test for it. I myself developed a "flu" that knocked me down for a month--and the weird breathing problems I developed while sick were frightening. It took weeks of IV infusions to get me back.

We also talked about how many celebs (Oprah, Savannah Guthrie come to mind) fell sick with pneumonia last year--and Whoopi Goldberg nearly died from it.

Thete were other things, but in the end I concluded there is a possibility that covid19--or some pre-mutant version of it--may have been around long before the end of December.

@sestrahelena and @Susan L.

Yes, my room mate was sooo sick! I'm shocked that I didn't get really sick, being asthmatic. But, I did get sick...and it was bad...but it wasn't "that" bad and didn't last "that" long. But I've been pretty sick most of my life. I had a coronavirus strain ***EDITED: No, I didn't. "Rona" is just on my mind. I had a pneumonia strain that was very rare and "ate" through my lungs, leaving me with a 2 month hospital stay, including 2 weeks in ICU...... when I was 16; had meningitis; and had H1N1.

But...one of my good childhood friends has a bday 12/28. Another's bday is 1214. Mine is 12/21. We live within 50 miles of ea other so we always try to get together in Dec. One of the girls was so sick that she had to "pass" this year. She and her husb were in bed sick for 2 weeks. The husb used to do some insane thing: jogged some 5 mi a day or some such. (weirdo ) But...he is just now up to 1 mi a day.

My friend and her husb went to the doc, who tested for flu and it was neg.

So..... ????

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2020 03:36AM by Jill_L.

@Tarantado,

I do have tons of equity in 4 of my properties. You're right: a refine/cash out might be a great way to go.

And I would love to hear from a lender you have a name for. I can't do much yet, too much debt right now that sort of lowered my credit score already. It's not bad; it's just fair-good. So that stands in the way a little bit, but I was targeting the debt and was making progress with it when this whole thing happened.

I did wipe out my savings in the last 18 months. First, was for a fun reason: my family took a fantastic trip. Second....in the last 10 months, it seems like, "stuff" just keeps happening to my houses. And finally, my daughter has had some sadly serious issues lately that has cost a small fortune in medical bills, testing, therapy, meds, etc etc.....suffice it to say that the end of 2019 was the worst time period in my life (what happens to me is nothing compared to seeing my kids go through horrid times....)

So, ^^^^^ not only did savings get wiped out, but then we borrowed a lot for the houses....had 2 A/C's this summer; one furnace this winter; 2 last winter; 3 roofs....etc etc. Ugh

So we are pretty leveraged with debt and wiped out savings.

And we do live frugally I never had a cell phone until 3.5 years ago. Then my husband and my 3 teens got one because I needed to know where my teens were. Yes, they were nice cell phones. But we still have the same ones. And my kids' phones were not that nice: they were the "promotional" phones that are basically free. ($7/month with a $7 month credit for 2 years....if you cancel the service or the phone before 2 years, you have to "pay the balance...". We have one TV set in our house (except our roomer has his own) and we don't have any type of "things" connected to it. I have heard that if it's a smart TV, we can still get some things like netflix. I'll have to check. We have not have the TV "connected" for nearly 18 years. I coupon shop and use MSing as a "lifestyle enhancement," in that I use it to go out to eat, do amusements, movies, etc that we normally couldn't afford. I also use it to "pick up a shop or two" to "pay for gas" on the way to soccer games, dance recitals, visiting family, etc.

Oh, and yes, I have thought about a bidet.

And yes, this financial disaster has made me realize that I really, really, desperately need to build a good cushion back up

All that aside: some really bad news for one of the people renting a house:

The folks who live there consist of a man and wife (my age) and their adult son who is 26 ish. He's a big strong guy. Works in the oil fields with one week on and one week off. During his week off, his son and daughter stay with him at the house

"Mom" got sick a couple weeks ago. Thought it was flu. Missed two weeks of work, and then finally went to the doc and tested positive. The fam was quarantined (official end was the day before yesterday), but she is still very sick. "Dad" is fine. Is holding the family together, it seems. "Son" got sick on Thursday. By Friday, he was hospitalized. By Friday night he was in the hospital in the ICU on a ventilator; fighting for his life. I'm so heart broken! These people have been with us for 3 years and are such nice people! And yesterday, the "Son's" son tested positive for COVID19. He's 9 years old.

Soooooo.......I'm going to REALLY start talking to mortgage companies. I hope I can get some kind of "concession," because I don't want this family to have to pay rent for April or May, if I can do anything to make that happen

@Jill_L wrote:

Oh, and yes, I have thought about a bidet.

And yes, this financial disaster has made me realize that I really, really, desperately need to build a good cushion back up

All that aside: some really bad news for one of the people renting a house:

The folks who live there consist of a man and wife (my age) and their adult son who is 26 ish. He's a big strong guy. Works in the oil fields with one week on and one week off. During his week off, his son and daughter stay with him at the house

"Mom" got sick a couple weeks ago. Thought it was flu. Missed two weeks of work, and then finally went to the doc and tested positive. The fam was quarantined (official end was the day before yesterday), but she is still very sick. "Dad" is fine. Is holding the family together, it seems. "Son" got sick on Thursday. By Friday, he was hospitalized. By Friday night he was in the hospital in the ICU on a ventilator; fighting for his life. I'm so heart broken! These people have been with us for 3 years and are such nice people! And yesterday, the "Son's" son tested positive for COVID19. He's 9 years old.

Soooooo.......I'm going to REALLY start talking to mortgage companies. I hope I can get some kind of "concession," because I don't want this family to have to pay rent for April or May, if I can do anything to make that happen

From what I've gathered by talking to people who called their mortgage companies over a week ago, you cannot call them and say "I'd like to know what you are offering customers at this moment"...You have to say something to the effect of "I've suffered a loss of income due to covid-19" and let them take it for there. I would do it soon because the creditors now know that many people will be receiving money from the stimulus package in the next few weeks, so they may change their guidelines. From what my friends have told me, they are offering anywhere from 60 days - 5 months of no payments, with either the interest accruing at the end of that period, or at the end of the loan

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2020 04:11AM by AnonymousGirl.

Has anyone had mental health problems as a result of quarantine? It's been two weeks for me and I've only gone out once. Starting to feel weird.

I worked at our Early Voting Center here in Ohio during the first couple weeks in March so was in contact with hundreds of people. Have been safe at home for the last 12 days so fingers crossed I’ll stay safe. And yes, have been contacted for a few shopping jobs....no way am I going out.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2020 11:22AM by Lucy0324.

By borrowing movies and books from the library, Flash was giving an example of free /cheap things to do in normal times, not right now. In order order to set aside money during normal times for times like right now.

For those in the Washington area who has the skills and need a job. They are hiring people to help sew PPE masks for healthcare workers. Be safe everyone.

[kaastailored.com]

I just went to Costco in Staten Island to buy food for my mom. I have never seen anything like this. Most people wore masks and gloves, there was tape on the floor to separate people. The registers were open every other one. There were limits on items. We have been out of state during this and drove four hours and will drive four hours back after getting this stuff to my mom. There are no delivery services available. I'll come out here every two weeks as needed. They will probably go out and get coffee anyway. All I can do is try.

Here is an example of how this virus spreads. I live in a small rural county in TX. We only had one case of the virus in our county from a woman who returned from a trip abroad and immediately self isolated. She is in the hospital, and the prognosis is good so far.

My county is comprised of 3 moderate sized towns and a few blink and you miss it towns. A man who resided in a county separated by 4 counties between us came to one of the moderate sized towns in my county and purchased a vehicle at the dealership 3 weeks ago. He was the first fatality in his county from the virus a couple of days ago. Two more cases (local residents and employed by the dealership) were confirmed this week from that dealership and several others are being tested.

Every person who visited that dealership in the last 3 weeks had possible exposure and returned to their homes, grocery stores, gas stations, etc. The first 10 days restaurants and bars were still open. The dealership has no plans to close down at this time. The manager said the dealership has been completely sanitized a couple of days ago. It will take up to another 3 weeks, possibly more, to determine how many cases will appear. This is why distancing is so important. Crazy times.

Geez,, everyone.

Be safe

The more I hear about this virus, the more horrible it seems

This is like the twilight zone. Who would have ever thought that we would live in a time like this?

I'm guilty of being one who was a jokester about it in the beginning....and now it just seems surreal

@shoptastic wrote:

Has anyone had mental health problems as a result of quarantine? It's been two weeks for me and I've only gone out once. Starting to feel weird.

My daughter has had serious issues since July. This is affecting her.

With 5 people having online schedules at home, it has been hellacious. People having gym withdrawals as well (not me, LOL). There is a fitness track at the park that the rest of the family have visited. We have weights and mats for workouts as well that have not been used for years. I hope you are all well and adjusting.

@Niner wrote:

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@myst4au wrote:

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@Shop-et-al wrote:

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@JASFLALMT wrote:

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@Flash wrote:

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@Tarantado wrote:

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@Madetoshop wrote:

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@iShop123 wrote:

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To my fellow investment thread/chat peeps:

[www.lynalden.com]
March 29, 2020 article

Really, really wanted to recommend this recent Lyn Alden piece to you all. It's analysis is extremely relevant and actionable (if one believes we are headed towards an inflationary devaluing of our nation's debt obligations and what that means to one's wealth and how to protect it). Only posting here, b/c it's last where we had some discussion on the markets and don't want to start another new thread. It's a bit long, but very well worth the read imo.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2020 09:48AM by shoptastic.

We've lived through pandemics before. The difference I see is media creating panic.

On a side note, is anyone making an effort to keep your favorite restaurant in business? That seems like a lot of risk for some moo shu.

@Jill_L wrote:

This is like the twilight zone. Who would have ever thought that we would live in a time like this.

Personally, I don't dine out much and have no favorites but the thought of drive thru or pick up-only kind of grosses me out because I will have even less of an idea of the cleaniless of the place and what my food has been through before it reaches me. Plus, food is never as good when it reaches home and has to be warmed up vs eating it fresh out of the kitchen. I saw an Outback commercial and thought, "That greasy onion is going to be nasty 30 minutes after being cooked." And steak really does not travel well. Yuk. Just an example which applies to local, non- chain restaurants as well. And fast food was already nasty, slow and expensive so I would not bother with it.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2020 11:40AM by sestrahelena.

We have been doing takeout about twice a week from local restaurants. These owners are community members,many are families our kids went to school with or people we know. Everywhere we've gotten food has taken social distancing and disinfecting to extreems. I feel much safer picking up my restaurant food than I do buying groceries. As a bonus ABC is allowing them to sell alcohol. We picked up a growler of beautiful Belgian Dubbel to go along with dinner the other night.
Also around here many of the local restaurants are selling grocery items they have access to through their distributers so we don't have to go to the stores as often.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/2020 01:53PM by wwin.