Not sure that bonus is the right word. I'm thinking of shops where you spent more time than planned, due to the structure of the guidelines.

E.g., You have to call back up to five times if no on picks up and spread out over three days.

This assumes you knew about the guideline requirements, of course, before going through with the project. But, still, you ended up with an unexpectedly time-consuming result.

I've never asked, but have been tempted to.

I would think that behavior to be extremely unprofessional.

Resisting temptation is good for the soul.

@ceasesmith wrote:

I would think that behavior to be extremely unprofessional.

Resisting temptation is good for the soul.

Yes, I doubt very much that would fly. It's like negotiating for a conventional full-time job, you have to get your money on the way in. Even worse, though, because sometimes if you're a valued full-time employee you might get a post-hire bonus for exceptional work, and of course, periodic raises. Contractors? Nah, contractors don't get bonuses on the way out.

I guess you can ask but I'd be surprised (very) if it were granted.

Only once because the guidelines changed from the time it was accepted to the time it was shopped because it was a new project and it was fundamentally longer and harder than it originally looked for both the scheduler and myself.

Otherwise, nope live and learn!

I did not ask for one, but was actually given one specifically because the apartment tour took 90 minutes instead of the promised 30-40 minutes. And, I had video to prove it The MSC manager thanked me and said that they would let the client know and collect from them.

Not post-job, no. But recently I accepted a self-assign shop for a boutique MSC that was new to me, read the guidelines, and instantly contacted the scheduler to cancel because the guidelines were different from what I thought the job would require based on the description. My initial message was that after reading the guidelines I'd decided the shop just wasn't for me. The scheduler politely asked why, which led to a very diplomatic back and forth where she asked what it would take for me to do the shop and also what similar shops were going for in my area. I responded with a slightly higher range, citing several instances of easier shops in my area going for the same range, and also made it clear that I was simply answering her question, not holding the shop hostage for a higher fee. The scheduler wrote back asking if I'd do the shop for the lowest amount in my range and also explained how the shop had changed since it was created, with the cllient adding more questions and requirements. I agreed to the new fee, and have since ended up doing several more of that MSC's shops. I think it helped a lot that this was a small MSC (scheduler/editor seem to be the same) and that both of us were professional and cordial at all times.

I have not requested a bonus or additional fee after the fact. However, if the same MSC asks me to accept similar shops, I explain why I need a higher fee or bonus. Frequently, they grant the higher fee or bonus.

@redink wrote:

I have not requested a bonus or additional fee after the fact. However, if the same MSC asks me to accept similar shops, I explain why I need a higher fee or bonus. Frequently, they grant the higher fee or bonus.

Makes good sense.

@NinS wrote:

Not post-job, no. But recently I accepted .../quote]
This is very helpful and a good model, I think, for handling these situations.

Having a flexible scheduler is good too!

@KokoBWare wrote:

@ceasesmith wrote:

I would think that behavior to be extremely unprofessional.

Resisting temptation is good for the soul.

Yes, I doubt very much that would fly. It's like negotiating for a conventional full-time job, you have to get your money on the way in. Even worse, though, because sometimes if you're a valued full-time employee you might get a post-hire bonus for exceptional work, and of course, periodic raises. Contractors? Nah, contractors don't get bonuses on the way out.

I guess you can ask but I'd be surprised (very) if it were granted.

It's interesting, b/c there is a lot of potential "waiting around time" for some shops that can be hard to negotiate for pre-shop.

I had one where I called back three days "in a row" with a gap in between each day: Mon.; Wed.; & then Fri. I had to wait one hour between each day's call limit as well. That was a unicorn in that it's only happened once - thankfully! ....So, it was like seven calls or something that I made across a week. I had to be in "ready" mode (acting tone and guidelines memorized for the scenario) each time I called, in case the actual financial advisor picked up.

I had no idea it would take that many calls to reach him and led to some reorganization of my week.

It'd be nice for shops with potential "waiting time" or other instances of inordinate and unexpected time consumed to have like an ongoing flexible/negotiable fee. ...Maybe, a few dollars added for worst-case, hard-to-reach and "waiting around time" scenarios.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2020 10:45PM by shoptastic.

@ceasesmith wrote:

Resisting temptation is good for the soul.

Yeah, I wouldn't ever do it, but have thought about it. I wonder how that'd work, too, if lots of people did this. Would it mess up budgeting for shops, etc.?

Unprofessional. If I were a scheduler, I'd strike off any shopper who pulled this.

You have a contract. Fulfill the contract.

I have had shops go south or just not work well for me. If it is something out of my control and the fault of the company or bad guidelines, I make sure and let my scheduler know. Most of the time if a scheduler has extra bonus $ they will throw you a little. Most schedulers were shoppers at one time so most get it and try to help. I love getting those bonuses when you didn't expect one. I also found that if you fulfill your agreement you might not get the bonus but schedulers remember your effort and award you better jobs or bonus jobs when they can.

Yes. Pre-shop, mid-shop and post-shop bonuses. Sometimes, it just works out that way for me.

I have on a few occasions been given a small post shop bonus and once a large post shop bonus but have never asked for one. When a shop takes a lot longer than usual I do hate it but if the time for the shop averages out for me over the course of several of those same shops to an okay time I am okay with it. On the flip side I have never returned some of my fee for a shop that ended up taking 5 minutes when I thought it would be 25. I am wondering if any of you have ever offered money back to the msc when the shop was easier than expected.

Why would we give money back? When I screw up a shop, I "eat it" (redo the shop without pay, or cancel, or whatever I have to do to "make it right" ); as for me, the nearest shop is 45 miles away. I would just be going, oh, yeah, yippee, they paid for the drive there.

The MSC certainly is not ever ever gonna offer a shop with pay higher than they are willing to pay. I agreed to the terms, so I earned the money.

I might, however, remember that, and cut that scheduler a break next time she's desperate and doesn't have enough bonus money to tempt me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2020 01:22AM by ceasesmith.

@sandyf wrote:

I am wondering if any of you have ever offered money back to the msc when the shop was easier than expected.

Not that, but I've returned a bonus before (only once).

The reason was that I asked for a travel bonus that wasn't needed as another MSC offered me a generous travel bonus to cover that gap. ....Basically, I was doing a multi-shop and multi-MSC route.

There was some driving space that I wanted a travel "bonus" for and since I wasn't sure which MSC might give it to me, I asked all three. Two gave it to me and I returned one.

It wasn't accepted, though, as she told me to keep it.

Ceasesmith I was mainly directing my question regarding returning money for a short shop to those who seem to want to get extra money when a shop takes much longer. You and the other commenters do not seem to be in that camp. It seems fair to me that if someone wants more money when something lengthens their time doing a shop then they should in turn offer some money back if it is much shorter than expected. If the added time for the shop is due to some issue external to shop such as closed roads, police activity on site etc than I see no issue asking for more money.
My question is to readers that have not commented but feel they should get more money for a once in a while longer shop.

@ceasesmith wrote:

Why would we give money back? When I screw up a shop, I "eat it" (redo the shop without pay, or cancel, or whatever I have to do to "make it right" ); as for me, the nearest shop is 45 miles away. I would just be going, oh, yeah, yippee, they paid for the drive there.

The MSC certainly is not ever ever gonna offer a shop with pay higher than they are willing to pay. I agreed to the terms, so I earned the money.

I might, however, remember that, and cut that scheduler a break next time she's desperate and doesn't have enough bonus money to tempt me.

@sandyf wrote:

On the flip side I have never returned some of my fee for a shop that ended up taking 5 minutes when I thought it would be 25. I am wondering if any of you have ever offered money back to the msc when the shop was easier than expected.

It's an interesting question.

I haven't really thought about whether I should return money from a shop taking less time than expected. For me, it probably rarely happens, as I'm a slow (but careful) worker.

I think the shops hardest to price are those with a wide range of possible time/work outcomes - sort of like the financial advisor one I described. That one could take 45 minutes to up to 9 hours.

I wonder if one can ask for a conditional pricing scheme for such shops? I would be glad to take less money if it took me a short period of time to finish (i.e., return some of it or just keep the lowest negotiated base). Do you guys mostly avoid such shops? How do you price these where there is a potentially large gap in time/work commitment?

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2020 06:20PM by shoptastic.

^^^So, I'm just really asking if a flexible/conditional negotiating structure is ever possible if that was unclear.

@shoptastic wrote:

^^^So, I'm just really asking if a flexible/conditional negotiating structure is ever possible if that was unclear.

It depends on how valuable you are. It depends on what kind of shop you're doing. It depends on how many other shoppers are available to do that location.

The problem with shoppers asking for bonuses is that the majority of them are barely competent. I used to schedule and edit. It was shocking. Once I saw the quality of the raw reports, it all made sense.

Sandy, I get your point. It's like if the grocery store overcharges me for an item, I go back and have them correct it. At the same time, if they failed to charge me for something, then I am that rare bird who goes back in and pays them for it. After all, if I make them correct it when they overcharge, shouldn't I give them the money when they undercharge?

But this is BUSINESS. You make a contract, you stick to it. If you screw up, you make it right.

As for a 45 minute shop taking nine hours? Screw it. I would have walked out, and let the scheduler know what happened. And I wouldn't expect to be paid.

You want that kind of contract, Shop, do merchandising. Their pay rates are per hour on site (even though you are NOT a W-2 employee, but an IC); so if a shop that was supposed to take 45 minutes takes nine hours, you'll get paid for the nine hours on-site. Or get a regular job. I can see it now...Gee,boss, this assignment is a lot harder than what I usually do....I need some extra pay on this. Good luck with THAT scenario!!!

We have to consider so many things when bidding for routes or whatever. It's like building or renovating a house -- your budget has to have some cushion, or you'll be broke before the work's completed. I can't tell you how many times over the years I've run into road construction, cattle drives that closed the highway for HOURS, flooded streets, windstorms, and forest fires have prevented me from completing routes in a timely manner. You cannot foresee/forecast that type of thing.

I had a bank shop once, 4 hour drive. Negotiated a fair price. Guidelines stated absolutely just walk in and see a bankere. Do not call ahead, do not make an appointment. Got there, and banker is available only by appointment, and the earliest one they can give me is day after tomorrow! I walked out and called the scheduler. I submitted the report. I did EXACTLY what I was supposed to do, so I should get paid, right?

Yes, I got paid in full.

But it surprised me when I got the e-mail saying that since I followed the guidelines and did exactly what I was supposed to do, I would be paid in full.

This is a BUSINESS, people! A contract is a contract. How would you feel if your patio was half-done and the contractor came to you and said I know you've already paid me for the work, but it's taking longer than I estimated, and I need another $2500 for materials now?

You'd fire his you-know-what and get another contractor. And maybe take the first one to Judge Judy for breach of contract.

Honor the danged contract. That goes for both sides, us the shoppers, and the MSCs.

Shoptastic, I did one of those investment shops once. I found it painful. I used my own scenario but the investment bankers had asked me to bring along all my personal investment statements so they could see how to handle my situation and what to recommend if I signed on with them. I was not about to divulge my entire (or even some of it) investment and financial resources history and current accounts to them just to discuss their services. Anyway after a very long conversation that tried to nudge real life info out of me at every turn I was asked to speak to a partner. The entire meeting ended up being over two hours with a long report to look forward to. Even tho I was paid fairly well I never took a job like that again. I even stopped going to the free dinner investment meetings with my friends. The dinner was not worth having to answer follow up phone calls trying to set an appt and I did not feel it was fair to them to accept their dinner when I had no intention of signing up with them.

I would never ask post-shop for more $$ than I had previously agreed. However, because of unique situations in the field, three different MSCs have proactively offered me more for completed shops.

@walesmaven wrote:

I did not ask for one, but was actually given one specifically because the apartment tour took 90 minutes instead of the promised 30-40 minutes. And, I had video to prove it The MSC manager thanked me and said that they would let the client know and collect from them.

I have been given retroactive "bonus" pay without asking. I work on many Beta projects so as the guinea pig, I discover the flaws before going forward. Depending on my findings, I am sometimes paid extra after the job has been completed.

It's interesting to see a MSC assignment described as a contract. Frequently shops are assigned and then cancelled by the MSC because their client's needs change. Just now a pair of shops I accepted because I could make a mini-route became a single shop which is out of my way. I agree that a shopper cancellation is poor form and try to avoid it all costs, but that's because I want to maintain my relationship with the MSC, not because I feel any moral or legal obligation.

Yes, I've had shops cancelled without any notice -- one in particular that chaps my you-know-what, I had driven 100 miles and completed the shop before it was cancelled.