When in the Course of human events...July 4

Good Morning and Happy 4th of July to all! I hope you have had a chance to sleep in a little.

Before you get caught up in the day's festivities or picnics or BBQs, grab a cup of coffee or tea and take a few minutes to visit the National Archives home page. Follow the link to the far right just below the banner to our Founding Documents, and from there use the transcription link to read the Declaration of Independence.

But don't just mechanically read it though. Let the words resonate and reverberate using your inner orator's voice. Do it slowly, as feel the weight of these treasonous (if you're a Tory royalist) thoughts, challenging the Divine Right of Kings to rule all men that became the justification for launching the transformative experiment in self-governance that is America.

How do those words and challenges sound against the backdrop of current events?

Just like #45, you may not know much anymore about history, or at least the detailed history and Zeitgeist of the Enlightenment once it hit our shores (think of the stream of philosophical ponderings from Hobbes, Rousseau, Locke, Montesquieu, et. al.)

This country was founded by consensus on a fundamental notion of shared ideas and values; very loosely shared. There was a lot that the Founders could not agree upon. There is still a lot that we cannot agree upon today.

But on this July 4th, through parade or protest, my wish is that we all remember this...

People.

We the People.

...in order to form a more perfect union..

Always striving.

E Pluribus Unum.

Be safe and have fun.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2018 11:53AM by CABZmom.

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Maybe we should also consider the context on who wrote these documents as well, and what they were really saying at the time- "We, the wealthy, male Caucasian landowners can govern overselves, George III. Here is a list of grievances, and conditions that we won't abide by any further."
And only white, male landowners were to have a vote. Oddly enough, most Americans seem unaware that Britain abolished slavery at home long before the US did. But, they still made fortunes off of it.

Based in MD, near DC
Shopping from the Carolinas to New York
Have video cam; will travel

Poor customer service? Don't get mad; get video.
Yes, and Thomas Jefferson LOVED some of his slaves, and didn't seem to have too much guilt over owning them.
And besides the "all men are created equal" quote, which is one of the greatest and most powerful string of words of all time, I remind all of us Americans of this, our values, which some appear to have forgotten:

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

Happy Independence Day United States. Let's live up to our promise.

proudly shopping in the D.
One thing about slavery: some people did not use, misuse, or abuse their slaves. In some situations, slave owners educated and/or worked alongside their slaves. There is not just one story of slavery. And slaves were not the only mistreated people. While "Southern" slavery was rampant, so was "Northern" abuse of employees, religious, and other people. The class systems have existed in various formats since the beginning of human life. (When human life began depends upon what you believe. Have we been here for thousands or millions of years? If millions, should we significantly farther along in our kindness and humanity than we are now?)

..get up early. It's the best part of the day.. - George Allen, Sr.
@Shop-et-al, not sure if you're trying to rationalize black slavery in the United States, or point out that many classes of people have been oppressed and continue to be. I'm going with the latter, which is correct. Oppression should be fought wherever it is found, no matter what the circumstance.

proudly shopping in the D.
One of my great-great-great-grandfathers was an indentured servant who had to work for a family for seven years in exchange for his ship passage. Other than the fact that he gained his "freedom" in seven years, he still had a really hard life afterwards and ended up working for the same family afterwards as a servant for a pittance and never made enough money to go buy a piece of land and really learn how to live freely.
Especially that part. Love it.

@PaulinMI wrote:

And besides the "all men are created equal" quote, which is one of the greatest and most powerful string of words of all time, I remind all of us Americans of this, our values, which some appear to have forgotten:

“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
.
You recall that freedom is not free. How much money, medicine, clothing, and child care can you provide? I can provide... *looks in wallet*... About thirty bucks.

..get up early. It's the best part of the day.. - George Allen, Sr.
@Shop-et-al wrote:

You recall that freedom is not free. How much money, medicine, clothing, and child care can you provide? I can provide... *looks in wallet*... About thirty bucks.

Me too @Shop-et-al, I think the 1% can afford a bit more, since they take about 80% of the income. But that's another topic.

proudly shopping in the D.
It is difficult for a patriot today. So much to cry about when the country one loves is attacked by those from within who reject the very notion of facts. Here is an interesting read on the science behind the Declaration.

[thinkprogress.org]
@PaulinMI wrote:

Me too @Shop-et-al, I think the 1% can afford a bit more, since they take about 80% of the income. But that's another topic.
Did you mean MAKE? Don't forget that they *pay* 39% of all taxes (source: [www.ntu.org]).

Makers vs. Takers. It's a struggle that is age-old.

"Real reform means strong border security, and we can build on the progress my Administration has already made--putting more boots on the southern border than at any time in our history, and reducing illegal crossings to their lowest levels in 40 years."
(Zero, SOTU 2013)
Why should I pay more to support your lazy butt just because I choose to work harder? Such a notion discourages work ethic. Why bother to work if the harder I work, the more SOMEONE ELSE makes?
@iShop123, and @stormraven73. I wasn't gong to go there, but you made me. No way I can let this go. It's not that I (or anyone) disparages the right or privilege for a business owner to make a lot of money and get rich. But look at the facts. The CEO's of today's biggest enterprises make 204 times (on average) the salary of the average working employee. That is up from 20 to 1 in 1950.

In 2016, Chipotle boss Steve Ells, who earned $28.9 million, or 1,522 times the median salary of $19,000; CVS Health CEO Larry Merlo, whose $32.4 million pay was nearly 1,192 times that of the median worker’s $27,139; and Walmart chief Doug McMillon, who made $25.6 million last year, about 1,133 times the median employee’s $22,591.

What would this country look like if those CEO's spread that wealth around more equitably to their employees?? I can give you a hint. More working families would be able to survive on a single income, keeping one parent at home, keeping an eye and raising there kids right. More marriages would be saved, as most marriages break up due to economic hardships. Homeownership would be at all time highs. The wealthy could stop complaining about paying all the taxes, because MOST AMERICANS WOULD MAKE ENOUGH MONEY TO ACTUALLY HAVE TO PAY TAXES!!!! Welfare would go down. Consumerism would increase, creating more jobs.

When 1% of the people take 80% of the money, it's not just wrong, it should be criminal. Gluttony and greed are sins. And that is what we got here now. After you get to the 2+ million a year level, how much more do you freakin' need? Give it to your workers. They wouldn't be there without those workers.

And don't give me this socialism or welfare crap. I don't know anyone that isn't willing to do a hard and honest days work.

So Ef you both for calling anyone a lazy ass butt because they work hard all day for less than 100 bucks before taxes, and defending these greedy turds sucking all the capital out of the economy. You ain't talking to me. I do well, over 80K a year, and pay plenty of taxes and take care of my own. But I at least have the eyes to see it ain't all about me and how much I can get. Things could be a lot more equitable out there. And if they were, our whole society would benefit. Got to heck both of you,.

Sorry board, but most of you all knew I would got there, and I did. Peace.

proudly shopping in the D.


Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2018 03:31AM by PaulinMI.
They do not "take" the money, they EARN it, just as you or I can CHOOSE to do (or not). They earn money commensurate with their effort. If I choose to put in less effort than someone else, I expect to get paid less. If I only do 3 gas station shops today I don't whine that I didn't make as much as someone doing a full resort shop. I refuse to pay for others' lack of effort. I am, however, more than willing to help out the disabled, orphans, and anyone else who truly cannot help themselves at the same level as the rest of us. Charity is at the heart of love, but it does NOT mean the world owes you a living, or a living wage!!
How exactly does someone "earn" 28 million a year when they set their own salary? I'm not saying anyone should get handouts, I'm just saying this overall greed mentality is ruining the country. Used to be, when the company was doing well, the owner would spread the wealth among the workers. Now they just take it all for themselves. We are not talking about effort. We're not talking about people asking for handouts. We're talking about fat cats taking 30 million golden parakites while closing the doors on the company, laying everyone off, and declaring bankruptcy. We're talking about billionaires bragging about not paying taxes because they're "smart". I'm not saying anything anyone is doing is illegal. I'm sayi8ng it's immoral, and wrong. What exactly are you defending? Who is arguing against hard work? Who is asking for handouts? All I'm saying is if you're going to take all the money, then you better be ready to pay all the bills.

proudly shopping in the D.
First, CEOs don't set their own salaries, those are set by a board of directors and voted on by shareholders. Second, you make it sound like a CEO just sits around twiddling their thumbs for that money. Lastly, while there are bad apples in any bunch, by and large the vast majority are not fat cats, greedy, immoral, or any other of the perjorative terms you spew so readily. They are hard workers with a vested interest in making their company succeed. When their company succeeds, EVERYONE benefits... the employees (raises, or more people hired, or both), the public (more profit = larger tax base), AND the CEO who helped make it happen. It's called capitalism. If you don't like it you are free to go elsewhere, or better yet create a company to compete with them and then YOU can be the "fat cat", free to give away as much of your salary as you like. I seriously doubt it will be anything close to the amount that most CEOs give, both in charitable donations and in reinvestment in their company.
@stormraven73 wrote:

They do not "take" the money, they EARN it, just as you or I can CHOOSE to do (or not). They earn money commensurate with their effort!

B.S. They take the money. It is the person at the bottom who earns. Her/his efforts are exploited by those at the top who put forth little purposeful effort. They spend their time figuring out how to maximize their profit (i.e. what they take from those who produce) without actually producing anything.
@stormraven73 wrote:

..... or a living wage!!

If someone works full-time they sure as hell do deserve a living wage. How could anyone think they don't.

Equal rights for others does not mean fewer rights for you. It's not pie.
"I prefer someone who burns the flag and then wraps themselves up in the Constitution over someone who burns the Constitution and then wraps themselves up in the flag." -Molly Ivins
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of your time and it really annoys the pig.
@stormraven73, it is capitalism and that is great. However, it IS immoral, wrong, criminal, evil, douche-ish, and just plain short sighted to take all the cake for yourself. Yeah, the BOD sets the salary for the CEO and themselves. They also lay out the perks and bennies, and pack the golden parachutes for when the whole thing falls apart so they can each have their big fat cat condos in Bali or wherever they are parking their ill gotten gains overseas. Just imagine if they cut their share form 200 to 1 to say 50 to 1. And spread that wealth around all their hard working, loyal employees. Not only would they still be multi-millionaires and be able to live the lifestyle of their dreams, donate as much as like to any charity, they would also lift the lives of all those hard working people to a higher class, and thusly expand the economy to an even greater capitalistic pinnacle. Then this country would truly be great, and the envy of all. However, greed will remain a sin, and it is doubtful anything will change.

If I did start a successful company, I would reward myself. But I would also be sure to enrich all the people that helped get me there.

proudly shopping in the D.
Yeah, and my stepson had to take two part-time jobs because neither of those companies hire full-time employees (other than management) so they can avoid giving him and the other employees benefits. Greedy bastards indeed.
@JASFLALMT, liked your post because it backs up my point, Not because your stepson is another victim of this corporate greed mentality, but you probably knew that. These a****es will find any little workaround to keep every penny for their little fat piggy's. I'm going to listen to "Animals" and get some sleep. I have to work tomorrow.

proudly shopping in the D.
@JASFLALMT wrote:

Yeah, and my stepson had to take two part-time jobs because neither of those companies hire full-time employees (other than management) so they can avoid giving him and the other employees benefits. Greedy bastards indeed.

A simple fix for this could be had. Law already establishes 35 hr/week as full time for the purposes of health insurance. The law should be expanded to require employers to give prorated benefits to part time workers. A person working 10 hr/wk ought receive 28.6% of the benefits that a full time worker for the same firm gets. This would not only be the fair thing to do, it would end the odd incentive that short-sighted companies have for not creating full-time positions. (Short-sighted companies do not realize that it is in their long-term interest to have happy, healthy employees.) An even better fix would be to recognize what every other developed (and some not-so-developed) polities have long ago come to realize: health care is a human right and the state has a duty to defend people against health dangers just as it has a duty to defend people against foreign armies.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2018 06:06AM by Rousseau.
Yes. Amazing what one types when one is tired after spending a long day reading citations. I spent today comparing footnotes, citations and otherwise, between multiple translations of the same work.
@PaulinMI wrote:

If I did start a successful company, I would reward myself. But I would also be sure to enrich all the people that helped get me there.
That's great! You're fortunate enough to live in a place where that's doable.

Your comment about "welfare" is interesting. My experience is that most of the people I know who are receiving taxpayer assistance are using it as a way of life. They apply for everything they are eligible for and would continue to do so regardless of the amount of money they have coming in. They know the system and they play it.

You write: " I don't know anyone that isn't willing to do a hard and honest days work." That's amazing! Statistically untrue, but amazing nonetheless.

Your personal comments have been reported. They're uncalled for.

"Real reform means strong border security, and we can build on the progress my Administration has already made--putting more boots on the southern border than at any time in our history, and reducing illegal crossings to their lowest levels in 40 years."
(Zero, SOTU 2013)
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