Just a random weird question that popped into my mind in light of another question and thread asking about low wages.

I am not sure, since all of these companies require a SSN/EIN.

Only if they get false SSN’s or other employment ID....

No doubt illegal aliens could become mystery shoppers in CA and NY.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2019 11:08PM by LIJake.

If they fall under the DACA program, then they would have a SSN and be able to mystery shop.

Hell's bells! If they can work at Bedminster and Mar-a-Lago, they can figure out a way to beat the MSC's IT and HR departments!

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2019 01:20AM by bestofbothworlds.

@bestofbothworlds wrote:

Hell's bells! If they can work at Bedminster and Mar-a-Lago, they can figure out a way to beat the MSC's IT and HR departments!

Undocumented immigrants cannot LEGALLY work in the United States at all. Many do work, illegally, by working for cash, paying no taxes, and having no reports of their employment. Others work illegally by purchasing false social security cards and other documentation (on the street in California and Texas, documents can be purchased for $300 or less). This is identity fraud and is not a victim-less crime - it affects the person whose identity has been stolen. Identity theft not exceeding $300 in value is a Class 4 felony. A person who has been previously convicted of identity theft of less than $300 who is convicted of a second or subsequent offense of identity theft of less than $300 is guilty of a Class 3 felony. Of course, if an undocumented immigrant is here illegally already, what's another felony or two?

The undocumented immigrants at Bedminster and Mar-a-Lago all presented false documents, which is a felony. It is also illegal for an employer to KNOWINGLY hire someone who does not have the right to work. A hiring employer who KNOWINGLY employs illegal immigrants faces criminal and civil fines and loss of business license. In the case of Mar-a-Lago and Bedminster, the undocumented immigrants will probably be prosecuted for identity theft and may face deportation. There is an allegation, which has not yet been proven, that some managers within those organizations were aware that the undocumented immigrants had false documents and knowingly hired them. This may result in penalties to Mar-a-lago and Bedminster and some managers may be prosecuted.

@roflwofl wrote:

Of course, if an undocumented immigrant is here illegally already, what's another felony or two?

Hopefully this won't be construed as a political post as it's simply a post about legalities but....

Being an undocumented immigrant is rarely a felony. A majority of undocumented immigrants are here because they overstayed their visa. That is actually not a criminal offense in the US. It's not something you can go to jail for. So an undocumented immigrant who overstays their vis is not here illegally and has not committed a felony by being here. If an undocumented immigrant who overstays their visa is found they are simply extradited.

The other major way (but significantly less than half) undocumented immigrants are here is by entering the country without being processed. That is illegal, but in most cases is only a misdemeanor. A huge majority of the ones who are here without being processed also have not committed a felony.

The only way being an undocumented immigrant in the US becomes a felony is if you have been extradited previously and have returned without being processed prior to the end of what is usually a 3 year ban on entering the US. THEN it becomes a felony. But that is a statistically irrelevant number.

@azncollege wrote:

If they fall under the DACA program, then they would have a SSN and be able to mystery shop.

If they fall under the DACA program then they aren't undocumented immigrants.

Thanks for the info update, roflwofl. The OP didn't mention whether an undocumented worker could mystery shop legally but merely if they could shop in the US. Hence my T-I-C reply.

Related would be housecleaning woman, if they get injured on your property, you are responsible, but they wouldn't sue as they would go back to their country. Builders hire (or use to) illegal workers to dig ditches paying cash...who else would do the job. MSing, being they never check,could make up a Social Security and I bet work if their writing is acceptable. but for them having to drive and put out money wouldn't work, they like cash up front.

@bestofbothworlds wrote:

Hell's bells! If they can work at Bedminster and Mar-a-Lago, they can figure out a way to beat the MSC's IT and HR departments!

Are you saying there are undocumented Migrants working at Mir A Lago??? Who would a thought that? The big boss being the President and all. lol

But on the serious side...If the msc's do not check the ssn's we put into the system I suppose we could type any number we felt like. And if the undocumented mystery shopper earned less than $600 how would the IRS ever even know? Perhaps the msc have to report all ssn of their contractors when they file their own taxes??? But even if they did have to do that I cannot imagine the IRS checking all 10-20,000 out to see if they were real people. So it seems to me if you have an address or account to send your money to and access to a computer you probably could mystery shop. Don't some Americans mystery shop when we go out of the country? Or do those of you who do that only work for American companies abroad?

The Sassie system verifies your SSN before allowing payment.

Those of us who occasionally work out of the country pay taxes on that income, whether it's a US or foreign country.

I was surprised to be paying quite a bit more in taxes this year -- until I realized that I made a LOT more money. Fortunately the estimated tax penalty underpayment threshold was dropped to 85%.

@bgriffin wrote:

Being an undocumented immigrant is rarely a felony. A majority of undocumented immigrants are here because they overstayed their visa. That is actually not a criminal offense in the US. It's not something you can go to jail for. So an undocumented immigrant who overstays their vis is not here illegally and has not committed a felony by being here. If an undocumented immigrant who overstays their visa is found they are simply extradited.

Trying to stay in the information realm rather than political commentary:

It's not a FEDERAL crime, but it is a civil violation of the law (so, yes, illegally -- that's why the legal term is UNLAWFUL presence.) If you overstay a nonimmigrant visa, you have an "unlawful presence" in the United States. If it's for a period of one (1) year or more after the18th birthday, then there is a (10) year penalty under INA section 212(a)(9)( B ). It's far less if you've overstayed less than 180 days.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2019 04:55AM by iShop123.

It is very easy to buy false documentation. All you need is a word-of-mouth connection and cash.

What an intelligent post. Thank you for the clarification.

@iShop123 wrote:

The Sassie system verifies your SSN before allowing payment.

A note about the Sassie verification: Sassie verifies that the SS# is a valid SS# and is in the name used to register with Sassie. A mystery shopper who provides a valid SS# for John Jones and registers using the name John Jones will pass the verification. Someone who has purchased a SS# will easily pass this verification, as well as anyone who registers with Sassie using someone else's name and SS#, like that of a relative or friend.

@bgriffin wrote:

@roflwofl wrote:

Of course, if an undocumented immigrant is here illegally already, what's another felony or two?

Hopefully this won't be construed as a political post as it's simply a post about legalities but....

Being an undocumented immigrant is rarely a felony. A majority of undocumented immigrants are here because they overstayed their visa. That is actually not a criminal offense in the US. It's not something you can go to jail for. So an undocumented immigrant who overstays their vis is not here illegally and has not committed a felony by being here. If an undocumented immigrant who overstays their visa is found they are simply extradited.

The other major way (but significantly less than half) undocumented immigrants are here is by entering the country without being processed. That is illegal, but in most cases is only a misdemeanor. A huge majority of the ones who are here without being processed also have not committed a felony.

The only way being an undocumented immigrant in the US becomes a felony is if you have been extradited previously and have returned without being processed prior to the end of what is usually a 3 year ban on entering the US. THEN it becomes a felony. But that is a statistically irrelevant number.

It is a misdeamonor to enter the country without a visa the first time, a felony a 2nd time. It is not a "statistically irrelevant number".

@iShop123 wrote:

@bgriffin wrote:

Being an undocumented immigrant is rarely a felony. A majority of undocumented immigrants are here because they overstayed their visa. That is actually not a criminal offense in the US. It's not something you can go to jail for. So an undocumented immigrant who overstays their vis is not here illegally and has not committed a felony by being here. If an undocumented immigrant who overstays their visa is found they are simply extradited.

Trying to stay in the information realm rather than political commentary:

It's not a FEDERAL crime, but it is a civil violation of the law (so, yes, illegally -- that's why the legal term is UNLAWFUL presence.) If you overstay a nonimmigrant visa, you have an "unlawful presence" in the United States. If it's for a period of one (1) year or more after the18th birthday, then there is a (10) year penalty under INA section 212(a)(9)( B ). It's far less if you've overstayed less than 180 days.

The 3 or 10 year ban assumes that you leave voluntarily if caught. If you run or refuse to leave, criminal charges can be filed that can result in prison time.

Trump will (now) deport them, it's so over for illegal's.

Anyone who refers to another person as "an illegal," is dehumanizing them. People may be undocumented, may be working illegally, may have overstayed a visa, may be living here illegally, and so forth. "Illegal," as a noun, is dehumanizing language. Dehumanizing language is a step towards seeing people as inferior, or as less deserving of compassion or basic rights. The people who may be present without documentation, working without authorization, or have overstayed visas are still living, breathing people with thoughts and feelings, hopes and dreams.


quote=Irene_L.A.]
Trump will (now) deport them, it's so over for illegal's.[/quote]

@heartlandcanuck wrote:

Anyone who refers to another person as "an illegal," is dehumanizing them. People may be undocumented, may be working illegally, may have overstayed a visa, may be living here illegally, and so forth. "Illegal," as a noun, is dehumanizing language. Dehumanizing language is a step towards seeing people as inferior, or as less deserving of compassion or basic rights. The people who may be present without documentation, working without authorization, or have overstayed visas are still living, breathing people with thoughts and feelings, hopes and dreams.

quote=Irene_L.A.]
Trump will (now) deport them, it's so over for illegal's.

[/quote]

I have sympathy for people escaping violence and oppression (e.g., drug cartel wars and North Korea's government), but there are also probably some who have come to the U.S. that may have been just fine waiting in line in their home country. ...I dunno... I'm not in their situation, so it's hard to say.

But, I also feel the U.S. has a right to protect its borders as it sees fit and require migrants to come through an authorized manner. Very tough issue. Not saying my thinking is right or wrong. Just that I see both sides. Ideally, I wish we could take everyone and anyone who wants to come here and live a free existence (it's definitely horrible to be born into a messed up political/social environment through no fault of one's own).

But, practically, we can't do that or else a third of the world would arrive overnight if they could? Our social services and resources would be taxed and we could collapse?

Edited to Add: Didn't want to start a political debate guys. Sorry if I got carried away here. Feel free to discuss this in the General Chat area if you liike. This was more a question of why wages are so low and if undocumented workers were maybe taking them at base rates.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2019 05:50PM by shoptastic.

I am talking about the use of language to dehumanize a population, not whether they "deserve' your sympathy. Calling someone "an illegal" is akin to a racial or ethnic slur.




quote=shoptastic]

@heartlandcanuck wrote:

Anyone who refers to another person as "an illegal," is dehumanizing them. People may be undocumented, may be working illegally, may have overstayed a visa, may be living here illegally, and so forth. "Illegal," as a noun, is dehumanizing language. Dehumanizing language is a step towards seeing people as inferior, or as less deserving of compassion or basic rights. The people who may be present without documentation, working without authorization, or have overstayed visas are still living, breathing people with thoughts and feelings, hopes and dreams.

quote=Irene_L.A.]
Trump will (now) deport them, it's so over for illegal's.

[/quote]

I have sympathy for people escaping violence and oppression (e.g., drug cartel wars and North Korea's government), but there are also probably some who have come to the U.S. that may have been just fine waiting in line in their home country. ...I dunno... I'm not in their situation, so it's hard to say.

But, I also feel the U.S. has a right to protect its borders as it sees fit and require migrants to come through an authorized manner. Very tough issue. Not saying my thinking is right or wrong. Just that I see both sides. Ideally, I wish we could take everyone and anyone who wants to come here and live a free existence (it's definitely horrible to be born into a messed up political/social environment through no fault of one's own).

But, practically, we can't do that or else a third of the world would arrive overnight if they could?[/quote]

I don't think illegal is dehumanizing if it is a fair description.

One can be both humanizing and still recognize unauthorized migrants as having a type of "illegal" status.

I don't personally love another person less because they don't have papers.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2019 05:58PM by shoptastic.

Trump calls them that and our "President" made the word illegal legal. This is not a personal attack, but just a response to the thread about illegals. Please suggest another name for those entering our country without correct papers, I am then happy to oblige. I want an open country, but doing it according to our law.
I am Jewish, my family fled and entered this country legally, hard working, some became Dr's, Senator's, and have high integrity.....I would never de-humanize anyone, let's not make a word personal......thank you.

@iShop123 wrote:

It's not a FEDERAL crime, but it is a civil violation of the law

Yes but it is rarely a felony as was insinuated

@tstewart3 wrote:

It is a misdeamonor to enter the country without a visa the first time, a felony a 2nd time. It is not a "statistically irrelevant number".

It is a misdemeanor to enter the country without going through a point of entry the first time and a felony the second time. It is NOT illegal to enter the country through a point of entry without a visa. A slight but important distinction.

When the context is the insinuation that all undocumented immigrants are felons based on the fact that they are undocumented immigrants when in fact the percentage is in low single digits then yes, it is a statistically irrelevant number.

This whole thread is ridiculous. It has nothing to do with mystery shopping. It should have been started in general chat, or better yet, not at all.

I can only like SoCalMama's post once....
Most illegal immigrants do not care and do not know about this business that it not overly lucrative; for most of us is extra money or a hobby; very few of us make leaving MS-ing. Most immigrants come from non-English speaking countries, do not come to the country with iPhone 8 or with a laptop under their arm. They are at no competition with any of us.

Edited to add: unless you know someone who is asking. Some MSC do not ask for SSN until you hot $600 in earnings. So that would make this business even less profitable for someone without SSN

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2019 08:25PM by MikiNV.