Just signed up for a free month of Netflix. LOL. We have not had "TV" in this house in 18 years.

I am not going to sign up for Disney

@Jill_L wrote:

Just signed up for a free month of Netflix. LOL. We have not had "TV" in this house in 18 years.

I am not going to sign up for Disney

Disney is $6.99/month. Not bad, imho.

If you want the bundle, it's $13.00-ish that gives you HULU and ESPN+ on top of Disney. Keep in mind that Disney includes Marvel, Pixar, National Geographic, ABC, Star Wars, 20th Century Fox, etc.

They are a holding company with lots of subsidiaries.

They will have programs from all sorts of studios.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2019 08:13AM by shoptastic.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

We will probably make extra money today simply because of weather. Roads are closed, supplies cannot get here, and none of us early birds are getting our worms (in a manner of speaking). If work supplies arrive so late that some people already have gone to their 9-5s, we can pick up their early work for today and earn decent money for doing so. Such a deal.

Have you created your millionaire jar, yet, shopetal?

I have one that is labeled as such with lots of spare change and other money "saved" (from me resisting buying things that aren't necessities).

One thing I learned is that visualization and goal reminders can be very powerful tools. The word "millionaire" on my jar is powerful motivation.

Now, I just need to stop watching cooking shows! ....Makes me want to blow a bunch of money on a mouth-watering meal!!!

We do not speak the same language.

I like ideas such as "enough".

The word "millionaire" might be too limiting. People two generations behind me might need mega-millions or billions to sustain them in a modest lifestyle. The generations after them might need mega-billions or trillions for their modest lives,





quote=shoptastic]

@Shop-et-al wrote:

We will probably make extra money today simply because of weather. Roads are closed, supplies cannot get here, and none of us early birds are getting our worms (in a manner of speaking). If work supplies arrive so late that some people already have gone to their 9-5s, we can pick up their early work for today and earn decent money for doing so. Such a deal.

Have you created your millionaire jar, yet, shopetal?

I have one that is labeled as such with lots of spare change and other money "saved" (from me resisting buying things that aren't necessities).

One thing I learned is that visualization and goal reminders can be very powerful tools. The word "millionaire" on my jar is powerful motivation.[/quote]

Have to laugh at anyone "shopping" think they can become Millionaire's in this day and age......thanks for the chuckle.

@Irene_L.A. wrote:

Have to laugh at anyone "shopping" think they can become Millionaire's in this day and age......thanks for the chuckle.

It’s very possible. Just on shopping income though? Definitely not.

Multiple revenue streams are needed, on top of high income and investing a large portion of that income.

We invested in the stock market 38 years ago for our daughter without ever selling...she is close, half there, but me, no way....yes, long time investments work, talking about today, think it was easier years ago when Real Estate was affordable.

Just curious. Irene, if you were starting out today, would you consider any real state or would you rather deal with other investments only? tia.

Starting out today, no Real Estate due to the high cost and I only like good locations....not possible to buy anything in my town or L.A. for under 600,000. Laws seem to go in favor of the renter in L.A. I would play the stock market investing in different things, bonds, CD's and such.

I've lived on my own before - apartment - and paid rent fully from my salary. I currently live back home with my parents and am saving $7,000 - $9,000/year probably as a result.

Housing is, indeed, a huge savings killer.

I know I'm not alone. The house next door to us has several "adult children" working and living with our neighbor, who is a retiree.

There are so many bubbles right now:

housing
student loan
medical debt
etc.

I believe I read that housing in California is in a bubble right now - the prices so high that it's possible people buying a new house today won't see that value for a long, long time.

We've also had multiple family members (in neighboring cities) report having random people call them to buy their homes. There has been a wave for the past decade(?) of people buying or building NOT to live, but to rent to others. They have been taking advantage of the fact that so many people cannot afford starter homes anymore and are forced to rent in America.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2019 12:32PM by shoptastic.

By the way, for a Dave Ramsey definition of millionaire:

it's all of one's net assets

That means if you are out of debt and have just $500,000 in a retirement account, but your home is also worth $500,000, then you are a millionaire in his book.

@shoptastic wrote:

By the way, for a Dave Ramsey definition of millionaire:

it's all of one's net assets

That means if you are out of debt and have just $500,000 in a retirement account, but your home is also worth $500,000, then you are a millionaire in his book.

And the experience of the last recession should remind us that the value of assets is very variable and to a great extent, irrelevant. 22 years ago I purchased my home for $230k, which was on the low end of average in my area at the time. 10 years later I was offered $750k for the property, but I couldn't afford to sell at that price because a replacement would have cost me the same or more. The valuation of that offer certainly put me in the realm of millionaire because of other assets and investments, though it in reality made me no richer.

The recession hit hard here and although the Property Appraiser indicated my home was still worth about $180k, I would have been hard pressed to find a buyer even at that price because the market was glutted with foreclosures while the banks virtually shut their doors to writing new mortgages. The value of my other assets and investments similarly plunged 30% to 70%. Because I owned my own home and with prepayments had almost finished paying off the mortgage, my cash flow was in pretty good shape during the recession because I didn't need to come up with a thousand dollars or more per month to pay rent or a big mortgage. IMHO, home ownership is the only way to survive the vagaries of the economy (unless you plan to live at home with Mom and Dad).

Policies in Washington, which set to work getting regulation back in place on banking and the stock market, have helped the very wealthy recover financially, but they also have helped the middle class recover. The Federal Reserve functioned spectacularly and got interest rates down but still positive (unlike our European allies, who are still dealing with negative interest rates and still in recession or almost recession), while regulations on businesses and the money systems (banks, stock markets etc.) by Congress and the SEC shut down some unfair and predatory practices. Regulations by definition have 20/20 hindsight, but that does not mean they should be eased or abolished.

Thrift, savings and investment remain the keys to living comfortably in our country. Overall the US is about the most economically stable advanced country in the world. This gets us back to the OP about debt elimination. We can't always avoid debt and not all debt is 'evil'. If there is a medical emergency there may be debt--but you avoid that debt being crushing by having health insurance. If you are paying for an education there may be debt--but you try to limit that debt (used textbooks, low rate student loans, campus or community PT jobs, minimize 'extras', etc.). The rule of thumb is that aside from emergencies, incur debt when what you will be paying for can reasonably be expected to increase in value.

As long as I have enough-- and that means money and contentment and the abilities to improvise and otherwise be resourceful-- all is well, Fortunately, I have enough and all is well.

Guess there are plenty of us that are millionaires, then.

@shoptastic wrote:

By the way, for a Dave Ramsey definition of millionaire:

it's all of one's net assets

That means if you are out of debt and have just $500,000 in a retirement account, but your home is also worth $500,000, then you are a millionaire in his book.

Love to come aboard and hear the "experts", oops, I mean forum shoppers tell us how to become millionaire's, when working for 10.00.....must agree, it's fun to dream/.

@Irene_L.A. wrote:

Love to come aboard and hear the "experts", oops, I mean forum shoppers tell us how to become millionaire's, when working for 10.00.....must agree, it's fun to dream/.

I’m not an expert by any means and don’t have enough total equity and assets to consider myself a millionaire yet and Colorado may be an anomaly, but real estate was the way, along with bringing in high income to save up for my first home. 2 investment properties later (1 of which is a home bought for my parents, while assisting in investing the house I grew up in to grew cash flow to pay off the mortgage of my investment property), I have ~$200k awaiting from my primary home if I cash out; refinance, which could be used for another property/more properties, as the feds are continuing to drop the interest to basically the rates I got my primary home for back in 2013!!

@JASFLALMT wrote:

Guess there are plenty of us that are millionaires, then.

@shoptastic wrote:

By the way, for a Dave Ramsey definition of millionaire:

it's all of one's net assets

That means if you are out of debt and have just $500,000 in a retirement account, but your home is also worth $500,000, then you are a millionaire in his book.

I count my house which is paid for as part of my assets. We will be selling our house in NY and living in our vacation house after we retire. We dedicated a lot of money to pay these off early. Why would these not be included?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2019 02:45PM by Niner.

We may be close to being Millionaire's on paper, but until I get that Million in my hands, I don't think of it that way.
Having to work and save for a vacation shows me I'm not making enough monthly. We, at least me, enjoy our homes, pay our taxes and mortgage and hope we can leave what we have to our kids. My home will pay for my old age care, not be free for me to spend, (well maybe some).....guess in my eyes, one just can't win, when you retire and hardly any money comes in, can you really say, your a Millionaire...sorry, I can't.

As a licensed financial professional for more than a decade and a half with NASD licensing for everything from selling mutual funds, stocks, bonds, options and annuities through licensing to oversee others as a branch manager, operation of trading desks for equities, bonds, options and annuities and running the books for a new public offering, I have no issues with claiming a fair amount of expertise. I was very clear with my clients that my purpose was not to make them rich, but rather to keep them from becoming poor.

A financial planner/advisor invariably has a client examine their spending closely as most frequently their goal is to increase their net worth. My worksheets for this exercise were for the client to look at 12 months of all expenditures, including groceries, housing, auto, utilities, clothing and to at least estimate cash expenses for gifting, entertainment, coffee/snacks away from home, etc. Self examination of expenditures is the only way for a client to see what they might do better. A financial advisor can suggest, but the client may or may not choose to implement.

There have been many books, newsletters and magazines written about investing. These are out of date before the printer's ink is dry. This becomes more and more true as the technology for trading gets faster and faster. More and more 'past performance does not predict future performance' becomes true for individual equity (stock) issues, though that disclaimer is only required by regulators to appear on publications by mutual funds.

Few people find it fascinating to study market movement, company governance and performance, sector performance, the economy and what the analysts are projecting. Even with that study, the decision to invest or divest takes a human longer than it takes a computer. Much of market movement is due to computerized trading algorithms that can instantly account for the latest information. As a result it is not at all an inappropriate suggestion that folks buy market diversification by purchasing index funds rather than attempting to 'pick winner' stocks. And for a couple hundred dollars an individual can begin buying index funds while buying investment real estate normally requires at least a 20% downpayment plus a likelihood that the monthly rent will at least cover the monthly mortgage, taxes and insurance payment.

As for the snide of becoming a millionaire with $10 shops . . . Especially during the recession those $10 shops kept me from needing to go into my savings or investments to pay the bills. One share of QQQ (the index fund for the NASDAQ) today costs about $203. It has grown 32.56% since Jan 1 of this year when you take into account growth of share price and dividends paid. That same share was about $30 at the worst of the recession. Who knew that 3 $10 shops ten years ago could be worth $203 today?

My cousin is a Millionaire many times over, the reason if one wants the truth is because her Father bought an apartment building years ago for $11,000 and left it to her paid for in a great area in San Francisco and she gets 4 to 6,000 monthly rent depending on size. I'm not saying good investing and planning isn't another way to go, however, living as long as I have, I have seen interest rates as high as 18%, the housing market fell big time.
Interest rates are low today, but prices are high, it now takes both to work and make it. College is high and getting more expensive as we talk. I certainly am not bad mouthing the 10.00 jobs, as I've done my share, and happy to do them, they help everyday living and have given me a nicer lifestyle. I don't have a husband's salary to depend on, so we are all speaking from different places. When married yes, we had a professional expert handling and advising and did well. My ex has his degree from USC in Finance, so he knew what to do, and I stayed home (by choice). I wish all out there health first, wealth second, and fulfilling your dreams third, and that we all become millionaires. Financial stuff not counted on does happen, like divorce, which is costly.

@Niner wrote:

@JASFLALMT wrote:

Guess there are plenty of us that are millionaires, then.

@shoptastic wrote:

By the way, for a Dave Ramsey definition of millionaire:

it's all of one's net assets

That means if you are out of debt and have just $500,000 in a retirement account, but your home is also worth $500,000, then you are a millionaire in his book.

I count my house which is paid for as part of my assets. We will be selling our house in NY and living in our vacation house after we retire. We dedicated a lot of money to pay these off early. Why would these not be included?

I'm fine with Dave's definition. Some use it, while others don't. It makes sense to me to accept it.

If I had some rare coin or rare piece of art that was worth $1M, I would be fine to say that I was a millionaire (all debts paid off that is). So, as long as your house is paid off (which Dave Ramsey is assuming for his definition), then I also don't see anything wrong with including it.

Millennials will be glad to just be out of student debt, let alone house-debt free.

I guess a person with a paid off $10M house, but little cash is definitrely a millionaire.

Well, this thread might be a good motivator and roll into topic on why it's not so bad to be fully house debt free ASAP to those interested in the topic. It goes completely against Dave Ramsey philosophies, which is fine, as I considered his views on investing to be often old school and not efficient. I could've sworn I created a completely separate thread on my ventures with my sister and brother in law many years ago, but for the life of me, I cannot track that thread down to post my real estate updates:

tl;dr: while I'll have more than $500k in debt and will likely build onto those close to $1M in the near future, is it all that bad if in the end it is paid with passive revenue streams?

Here's the full breakdown, as of 4th quarter 2019:

My primary home: $163k balance, with $58k balance in a HELOC, while my home can now appreciate to around $440k. I still have 1 tenant living with me and my sister's fam. The tenant gives me $400 cash monthly.

Investment Home 1: $135k balance, while home can appreciate to $195k. New tenant now pays $1,500 for the next 12 months. This investment home has been positive cash flowing with a $1,100 mortgage payment. We pay $100/month to a property manager.

Investment Home 2 (where my parents now live in and bought for them): $242k balance with an outrageous 6.5% interest mortgage, so $1,800 monthly payments. Parents contribute $500/month. This is self-managed.

Investment Home 3 (parent's old home and my childhood home growing up, where my brother in law's brother lives in): ~$50k balance left, $300 net income after rent minus mortgage. This is self-managed.

With the feds decreasing rates yet again, while the equities in our homes continuing to rise in Colorado, I'm planning to cash-out; refinance my home after thinking about it long and hard. I should expect ($440k - $163k - $58k)*0.8 = ~$175k tax-free cash at a ~3.5-3.75%, 30 year mortgage. In the end, my mortgage monthly payment will drop.

The $175k cash will then be dumped to the Omaha property to pay it off leaving me with around $40k cash left, then finally tie the LLC under the property, instead of just tying to the lease. The $1,400 income ($100 less $1,500 to account for management fees) from that property, will be dumped to my parent's current house, combined with the net income from my parent's old house and my cash payments from my tenant in my home, if needed.

At the same time, my parent's home that has a ridiculous 6.5% interest rate will be refinanced as well to lower the monthly mortgage payment.

In the end, I'll drop the mortgage total monthly cost in my primary home, plus also pocketing $40k, which will hopefully rollover into another investment property in the near future.... And most importantly, all 3 investment properties will be operating will ONLY passive incomes FINALLY. The next goals after this plan is executed would be to eventually obtain additional properties to then help make my primary home's mortgage, HOA and utilities paid by passive income.

This is in addition to investing nearly half my income towards other investment accounts.

@shoptastic wrote:

@Jill_L wrote:

Just signed up for a free month of Netflix. LOL. We have not had "TV" in this house in 18 years.

I am not going to sign up for Disney

Disney is $6.99/month. Not bad, imho.

If you want the bundle, it's $13.00-ish that gives you HULU and ESPN+ on top of Disney. Keep in mind that Disney includes Marvel, Pixar, National Geographic, ABC, Star Wars, 20th Century Fox, etc.

They are a holding company with lots of subsidiaries.

They will have programs from all sorts of studios.

@shoptastic....

Ooooh...did not realize all that was part of the bundle! I might have to cancel netflix at my one month and sign up for Disney after all.

Or not.

My kids sit around watching TV when they used to be more active.....hmmm

@Tarantado,

I live in Colorado and do the same

*My childhood home that my parents bought for @29k is now worth over $600k. Paid off
*My primary res is valued at $460k with a mortgage of $350k @3.5% (took advantage of VA loan)
*My rental #1 is valued at $470k with a mortgage of $360k. Mortgage pmt is $1902/ rent is $2600 @4%
*My rental #2 is valued at $380k with a mortgage of $190k. Mortgage pmt is $1340/rent is $1650 @5.25% (ugh)
*My rental #3 is valued at $340k with a mortgage of $172k. Mortgage pmt is $1161/rent is $1850 @4.375%
*My rental #4 is valued at $305k with a mortgage of $86k. Mortgage pmt is $602/rent is $1775 @4%
*My rental #5 is valued at $210k with a mortgage of $120k. Mortgage pmt is $1100/rent is $1200 @5% (ugh)

I do realize that the real estate bubble will burst. With the exception of the primary res (which we sold a rental to get....) and Rental #1, which we got in 2017, we have held all the properties (and more from time to time) for over 20 years. We've weathered the downturn, where most were valued at $50k under what we owed on them, but when the market came back, it came back stronger. So even with a downturn, if you can weather it and keep the rents high enough to pay expenses, I feel like they will ultimately come back stronger and worth more than they are worth today, in a short amount of time. In fact, during a downturn, I would spend all my savings to buy more real estate

We had two other homes that have been sold. Actually they were mine. I bought my first at 24. My mortgage payment was $602. I rented two of the bedrooms @ $300 each. Worked two jobs. Bought a second home as a rental. Got married to my husband and we bought a home together. I sold the first one with the birth of our first child; it provided a replacement of my work income for 2 years so I could stay home. We sold the second one when our second child was born because she was so sick and medical bills piled up. If we still had those homes, we would be doing GREAT; they would be paid off and bringing in good money.

Yes, all our "eggs" are in real estate. I've been thinking about changing that, but not sure what to do.

We have 10k banked per house, for emergencies. Money that is untouched.

We also have a TON of debt. We will have to pay most of that off before getting another house...which we WANT to do in a year or so, but in a different state.

Incidentally, some states are more landlord friendly. Colorado is one. I would never buy property in CA, WA, VA, DC, NY, PA. Good states are TN, MO, TX (maybe....real estate taxes are really high); GA, FL(again...maybe). I hear horror stories from other landlords in those states that just makes me quiver.

We also self manage; have an LLC set up; and it's my "job" as a SAHM (who is a teacher to 5 kids who are home schooled; a property manager; a tutor to anywhere from 2=6 kids; a mystery shopper; a babysitter; and a VIP kid teacher....)

If we purchase in another state, I will get a property manager, as each state's laws differ so much.

One thing: I wish, wish, wish that when I'd purchased my first house at 24, I would have purchased in Summit County or Eagle County (I worked in Summit).....my friend purchased her first home at the same time. She spent $110k on hers and I spent $82k. I was just TERRIFIED to break that 100k barrier, so I purchased in a different area. Mine grew in equity to around $300k. Hers grew in equity to over $700k. Yeesh

Oh. And we purchased our primary res BECAUSE OF it's ability too be room mate friendly. ROOMS in CO are going for anywhere from $650 and up. I've seen ROOMS listed at $1200 in this area (for a property with a hot tub; movie room; elaborate deck; acreage....but still a ROOM)

So we've had 1-2 room mates for several years. We rent out our rooms at $550, since we have a busy household with kids (though two of the "kids" are 18; one is 17; one 14 and one is 7)

@Jill_L wrote:

Oh. And we purchased our primary res BECAUSE OF it's ability too be room mate friendly. ROOMS in CO are going for anywhere from $650 and up. I've seen ROOMS listed at $1200 in this area (for a property with a hot tub; movie room; elaborate deck; acreage....but still a ROOM)

So we've had 1-2 room mates for several years. We rent out our rooms at $550, since we have a busy household with kids (though two of the "kids" are 18; one is 17; one 14 and one is 7)

Maybe I'm lazy, but I'd never want to dabble into real estate (for rental) as an investment, where I had to do work to maintain the property.

Every time I here people saying they have to clean the place and keep it nice, I think:

NOPE!!!. Stocks are for me. Easy. Just sit in front of a computer screen, read the stock quote, and buy/sell. No work on my part (other than reading - which I love). Physical work that is.

I admire those who can do the work of renting out property to others.

They have these things called REITS (real estate investment trusts), which are basically securities you can buy from any brokerage that give you part shareholder ownership into a company that does manage commercial and residential real estate for profit. I'm not too knowledgeable about them, but lazy me would probably rather buy a share in a REIT over doing the work myself!

I'll be happy to just collect my 10% annual return (long-term), while sitting at home and pushing a key on my laptop. Although, as noted earlier, I think the U.S. stock market will suffer for many years after we go into the next recession. The Buffet Indicator and other measures of overvaluation show we were extremely high in price and every time that's been the case, historically, there's always a painful period (often many years) of stock market deflation. It usually takes a recession for asset prices to "reset," however.

Emerging markets are where I want to be more in in the next decade.

*sorry for the slight tangent*

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2019 11:05AM by shoptastic.

@shoptastic wrote:

@Jill_L wrote:

Oh. And we purchased our primary res BECAUSE OF it's ability too be room mate friendly. ROOMS in CO are going for anywhere from $650 and up. I've seen ROOMS listed at $1200 in this area (for a property with a hot tub; movie room; elaborate deck; acreage....but still a ROOM)

So we've had 1-2 room mates for several years. We rent out our rooms at $550, since we have a busy household with kids (though two of the "kids" are 18; one is 17; one 14 and one is 7)

Maybe I'm lazy, but I'd never want to dabble into real estate (for rental) as an investment, where I had to do work to maintain the property.

Every time I here people saying they have to clean the place and keep it nice, I think:

NOPE!!!. Stocks are for me. Easy. Just sit in front of a computer screen, read the stock quote, and buy/sell. No work on my part (other than reading - which I love). Physical work that is.

I admire those who can do the work of renting out property to others.

They have these things called REITS (real estate investment trusts), which are basically securities you can buy from any brokerage that give you part shareholder ownership into a company that does manage commercial and residential real estate for profit. I'm not too knowledgeable about them, but lazy me would probably rather buy a share in a REIT over doing the work myself!

I'll be happy to just collect my 10% annual return (long-term), while sitting at home and pushing a key on my laptop. Although, as noted earlier, I think the U.S. stock market will suffer for many years after we go into the next recession. The Buffet Indicator and other measures of overvaluation show we were extremely high in price and every time that's been the case, historically, there's always a painful period (often many years) of stock market deflation. It usually takes a recession for asset prices to "reset," however.

Emerging markets are where I want to be more in in the next decade.

*sorry for the slight tangent*

REIT's are taxed as normal income (though you can shield it in a retirement account like a Roth IRA) and you definitely don't have any tax benefits going that route, though I do own some REIT's in my portfolio in both my Roth IRA and taxable account. Let's put it this way, the revenues I'm making from my rental properties are not taxed at all because my net taxable at the end of the day is $0-10 every year, whereas my REIT's are taxable income (exception are the REIT's in my retirement account; however, I plan to be "FIRE'd" / Financially Indepedent, Retired Early, ASAP).

While I'm with you on investing in stocks, as I have a large vest in index funds and a select blue chip companies as well to diversify my wealth, real estate definitely is one of the simplest ways to break into true passive income quickly. The amount of wealth I was able to build from it and how quickly is mindblowing the more I think about it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2019 06:14PM by Tarantado.

@shoptastic @Tarantado,

I would love to get into stocks. I feel like I'm behind the 8 ball with no experience. Is there anything you would suggest in order to "break in?"