There is an online store making fun masks out of colorful fabric, this is the future, they are selling for 9.99 and flying off the shelves through online shopping...I bought one for myself, and one for my daughter and future son-in-law, why not be in fashion, and be safe.

We have a very low rate where I am, but we are also a seasonal town where many of the homes lay empty for 6-8 months out of the year. We are in the tippy bottom of NJ, but where my bf lives and the surrounding area (near NYC) is way out of control. There is a contingency in the state that absolutely will not listen to stay at home and social distancing orders. They had a wedding, a party with over 150 people, a religious ceremony with over 100 people in it and the list goes on. I feel like we could open our county and the one right above us with extremely limited offerings and extreme guidelines and we would be ok. But as long as the people in that one town act like fools, I'm not hoping to be out of this before summer, which will absolutely crush thousands of business that rely on seasonal visitors and that scares me more than the cases that we have right now.

The beaches in Jacksonville, Fla., were opened today. The throngs of people were clearly disregarding any social distancing concerns. Such people are selfish, and have no consideration for others. Until it affects them personally, many people appear to be very cavalier about this pandemic.

We practically live in devices. Do we really need more barriers between humans?

Unfortunately, we do...

@Opanel wrote:

The beaches in Jacksonville, Fla., were opened today. The throngs of people were clearly disregarding any social distancing concerns. Such people are selfish, and have no consideration for others. Until it affects them personally, many people appear to be very cavalier about this pandemic.

Stuff like this and the disjointed state responses make me believe (and I desperately hope I'm wrong) that we'll continue to see intermittent big local spikes and possible new regional/national waves (where there is a large case growth rate that goes exponential again) if we open back up soon.

We didn't do what some other countries did in taking draconian measures to lock people down and implement large-scale testing and tracing. FL was so late to shut down and now they have this beach back open (even if limited). I'd have preferred taking the "pain" early on for two or three months (of lockdown) across the entire country and come out the other side better for it. By having a disjointed response, there are still pockets of people that may be moving about freely and keeping the virus spreading to new hosts. When we open back up, I fear those areas will get lots of new cases again.

I wonder if a constant "start/stop" approach to the economy and lockdown measures is just as bad (or worse) than the more upfront pain approach? It gives businesses a lot of uncertainty to start and stop and start and stop whenever large outbreaks occur again.

If the economic damage would be the same as a more severe national lockdown program, but with more deaths, maybe we'd be better off just locking down and saving lives. Lots of ifs, but just my quick thought.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2020 01:49AM by shoptastic.

Texas will start relaxing restrictions next week:
[thehill.com]

@ wrote:

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott (R) said Friday that he plans to begin reopening different Texas businesses through a series of executive orders starting next week, making Texas the first state to lay out a defined rollback of COVID-19 restrictions.

Be vigilant and stay safe, Texans!

But don't be hyper-vigilant, and remember to enjoy daylight and humanity.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

But don't be hyper-vigilant, and remember to enjoy daylight and humanity.

We should enjoy our life before daylight, which will still be here when this ends, however,
many "humans" have died, that is what to focus on. Please everyone, do the right thing, for yourself's and others...we may be carriers and not know it. Wear masks, stay 6 feet apart, and listen to the experts. These posts have become full of hogwash



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2020 03:13PM by Irene_L.A..

Yes. Be hypervigilant.

We should not sacrifice our enjoyment of whatever life we can have now. This is not hogwash, It is foundational in health. Failing to appreciate other humans, who are the humanity, is not healthy. Inability to enjoy other people, even when separated by six or more feet of space, is not healthy. Calling the tenets of health and well-being hogwash is.. well.. hogwash. Thank you for the vocabulary lesson, and have as fun a day as you can have!

This basic lack of information might make some well-intended persons dangerous. Yikes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2020 03:22PM by Shop-et-al.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

We should not sacrifice our enjoyment of whatever life we can have now. This is not hogwash, It is foundational in health. Failing to appreciate other humans, who are the humanity, is not healthy. Inability to enjoy other people, even when separated by six or more feet of space, is not healthy. Calling the tenets of health and well-being hogwash is.. well.. hogwash. Thank you for the vocabulary lesson, and have as fun a day as you can have!

This basic lack of information might make some well-intended persons dangerous. Yikes.
Stay in your bubble, and enjoy your neighbors/friends while keeping a distance...I wish you well. I'm enjoying my zoom and am able to be in contact with friends/family...

You are assuming those things exist?

@Irene_L.A. wrote:

...enjoy your neighbors/friends...

[/quote]

Mmmm, sounds about right.

hogwash[ hawg-wosh, -wawsh, hog- ]SHOW IPA
SEE SYNONYMS FOR hogwash ON THESAURUS.COM
noun
refuse given to hogs; swill.
any worthless stuff.
meaningless or insincere talk, writing, etc.; nonsense; bunk.

@Shop-et-al wrote:

But don't be hyper-vigilant, and remember to enjoy daylight and humanity.

I think you might have a bit of Dave Ramsey's spirit, Shop-et-al.

Early on during the COVID-19 ramp up, he had a segment during which he talked about extreme personalities. He admitted to being a forever optimistic and "worry too little" type of guy. He said his wife was the opposite and a Worry Wort/pessimist/glass half-empty type of person. He said we all need to be aware of our potential extreme sides.

It's important to balance out our extremes with the other side.

He told a story about the Brits in WW2 (from a book whose name I cannot recall off-hand). When the entire country was being bombed and people all around them were dying, initially, many people were fearful and cowered in their homes. After a year or more of this, something amazing happened. People got sick and tired of being fearful. He said they weren't so much courageous as just tired of living in fear. So, they started going up to their roof-tops and having dinner every night (as they watched bombs drop around them!!!) and enjoying the outdoors. If they die, they die. But, they weren't going to live in fear anymore. I was wow'd by that!

That's part of the Ramsey spirit. He's said the one thing he HATES the most is anything that makes him live in fear and his approach is wanting to just face things and knock this coronavirus out. He just hates the feeling of fear. I actually find that refreshing, but also recognize (as Ramsey does too) that we shouldn't not prepare for real dangers either.

It's a balancing act. I'm more of a worrier. I have to recognize that about myself. I see dangers ahead and can sometimes get overly pessimistic. I like having optimists around, because they help keep my extreme side in check. And they are often the heroes working the frontlines when there is chaos around us (doctors, first responders, grocery store employees, delivery drivers, etc.).

@Shop-et-al wrote:

We should not sacrifice our enjoyment of whatever life we can have now.

I appreciate your perspective, Shop-et-al. But, if you were my mom (who probably has a bit of your persona too - as she's wanting to go out and tired of being stuck inside, but who I've had to convince to protect my dad first and foremost!), I'd just remind you of the statistics:

People most likely to have severe complications (including, death) are:

-elderly
-obese
-have diabetes, heart disease, or lung disease

If you fit that profile, please, please take the virus seriously. It is very contagious, spreads from asymptomatic people, and can have a two week incubation period. We got word several relatives in New York tested positive for COVID-19. All are healthcare workers. They have experienced mild symptoms so far. My uncle had COVID-19 symptoms (case unclear) - he's a senior with multiple underlying conditions, including diabetes - before dying a few weeks ago in New York.

It's best to never contract the virus, but if you do and have symptoms, talk to a doctor or health provider (by phone) and monitor it closely and seriously. If the severe symptoms develop, I wouldn't hesitate to go to E.R. I'd say the same thing to you as my mom:

"I love you and don't want anything to happen to you! Please be careful and mindful of the virus during this time!"

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2020 04:41PM by shoptastic.

Excuse me, but how can you claim to love some random stranger on the internet?

I suppose if you say you have compassion for all creatures on earth that's one thing, but "I love you" is a bit strong, dontcha think? I think maybe after the 10th date...

@JASFLALMT wrote:

Excuse me, but how can you claim to love some random stranger on the internet?

I suppose if you say you have compassion for all creatures on earth that's one thing, but "I love you" is a bit strong, dontcha think? I think maybe after the 10th date...

Considering that there are recognized 4 types of love it would be short sighted to interpret the word automatically as 'romantic' love, no matter how funny you may find it. For decades I donated blood as an act of love--I had no idea who the recipient would be, but it was needed. I have a significant other, which is a romantic love. There is also the love for fellow shoppers from the shared experience.

Excuse me, but EVERYONE, not just the vulnerable, should take this virus seriously! Even if you are (apparently) healthy, you may be carrying the virus - so wear a mask, social distance, carry wipes and clean up after yourself - you never know who you might be infecting!

BTW, the 3 categories below are misleading, as people of all ages and conditions are contracting it. Don't be the one who spreads it, please ...

"We should not sacrifice our enjoyment of whatever life we can have now." How arrogant! Caring for your fellow humans is important, even if that means some inconvenience, like not spreading a virus ...

@shoptastic wrote:

@Shop-et-al wrote:

We should not sacrifice our enjoyment of whatever life we can have now.

I appreciate your perspective, Shop-et-al. But, if you were my mom (who probably has a bit of your persona too - as she's wanting to go out and tired of being stuck inside, but who I've had to convince to protect my dad first and foremost!), I'd just remind you of the statistics:

People most likely to have severe complications (including, death) are:

-elderly
-obese
-have diabetes, heart disease, or lung disease

If you fit that profile, please, please take the virus seriously. It is very contagious, spreads from asymptomatic people, and can have a two week incubation period. We got word several relatives in New York tested positive for COVID-19. All are healthcare workers. They have experienced mild symptoms so far. My uncle had COVID-19 symptoms (case unclear) - he's a senior with multiple underlying conditions, including diabetes - before dying a few weeks ago in New York.

It's best to never contract the virus, but if you do and have symptoms, talk to a doctor or health provider (by phone) and monitor it closely and seriously. If the severe symptoms develop, I wouldn't hesitate to go to E.R. I'd say the same thing to you as my mom:

"I love you and don't want anything to happen to you! Please be careful and mindful of the virus during this time!"

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2020 06:08PM by pegc.

We have different interpretations on the word love. I call donating blood an act of kindness and compassion. I have done so myself. But I can't "love" people I don't know. Not to mention that I also didn't read it as being sincere.

duplicate

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2020 06:05PM by pegc.

@JASFLALMT wrote:

We have different interpretations on the word love. I call donating blood an act of kindness and compassion. I have done so myself. But I can't "love" people I don't know. Not to mention that I also didn't read it as being sincere.

"Charity" is considered a form of love. You give of your time and/or your goods freely for the benefit of others to whom you have no obligation except that they are fellow creatures.

Yes, we have a completely different mindset. To me, that is kindness and compassion. It doesn't take love for me to want to be charitable to others.

But on that note, aren't you the same person who insists on going to the grocery store because you don't want other people picking out your meat and produce? That is not kind or compassionate behavior, IMO. If you have the opportunity to use a pickup or delivery service and refuse to do so just based on your own preferences and not being considerate about the health of others, that is selfish. But I apologize if I am thinking of someone else.

I don't see that a pickup or delivery service keeps me or others safer. I go to the store with my mask and gloves. I am very careful about social distancing and I pay by credit card such that the cashier is kept as safe as possible as well, since he/she is not allowed to wear a mask and my real preference is to use a self-checkout lane so that he/she doesn't need to handle my items either. As a matter of fact, the delivery person is more likely to be a disease vector as they are delivering to folks on mandatory quarantine in addition to those practicing self isolation.

If you are talking about the compassion being paying someone else to bring you your groceries so that they are viably employed, that is a different issue. That may be your choice for "charity", but it is not mine. And if yours is charity, why do you complain about squashed bread and rejoice that the vendor reimbursed you for that product such that you got it free? Did you throw it out or just use it for some purpose rather than originally intended? It could still be dried out and turned into breadcrumbs. It could be soaked in a little milk and used as a binder in meatloaf. Cubed and with additional spices and goodies turned into bread pudding. Torn and soaked overnight in eggs and milk to make a baked next morning breakfast casserole.

I volunteer at a church fish fry once a month, before the chaos. We package the bread into baggies. One of the Church Ladies gets the ends to make bread pudding after church for coffee hour.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2020 11:06PM by HonnyBrown.

The grocery store reimbursing me for squished bread did not take it out of the employee's paycheck. With the panic buying going on and the amount of profit the stores are making, I think they can afford to reimburse me the $1.35 for the bread. Not to mention as a merchandiser, I have seen entire trays of bread that was out-of-date being thrown away in the dumpster by this very same store on multiple occasions in the past. I don't understand why they don't just donate to a homeless shelter or the food bank (our food bank takes items that are only expired by a few days). This store has done the same with bananas that had a few spots on them that could have just been discounted and sold.

I used the delivery service once, I had the garage door open and the delivery person placed the items in my trunk. I removed the items that needed refrigeration and disinfected them carefully before putting them away. The other items remained in my garage for several days before I brought them into the house, though I disinfected them when I did. When I use curbside, I pay online and pop the trunk. I do the same disinfecting with those items when I get home.

Masks and gloves have not been proven to be infallible. People who have not been self-quarantined with no visitors do not know for sure if they are asymptomatic carriers or not. I feel as if it is socially irresponsible to go into public when there are other options.

So far I have not received any bad produce or meat from online ordering, and I can say that I have not spread my germs in stores or risked contracting the virus by walking into an airspace occupied by someone else moments earlier who may have been sick.

You and I have very different outlooks on things.

I also forgot to mention that as a merchandising employee, I took a leave of absence on March 27th. I am supposed to be working on project as the supervisor of a team of merchandisers inside of that grocery store chain I mentioned in my previous post currently, which consists of 15 different store locations in my region. The project is reset work, which basically is rearranging items on a shelf, removing discontinued items, and cutting in new items. We were going to be resetting shelf stable items such as hair care, toiletries, paper products, and also main aisle food items such as coffee, canned goods, etc.

My company provided us with letters of authorization in case we were stopped on the roads going to or leaving the stores to prove that we were involved in an essential business. Grocery store employees are providing essential services. Rearranging items on a shelf? IMO, non-essential. I chose to take that leave of absence even though I haven't been able to draw a paycheck for the past three weeks. As a result of taking a leave of absence, I am also not eligible for unemployment. I have money saved so it's not going to hurt me, but could I use the extra money? Why sure I could. But it would be irresponsible of me to continue doing that kind of work currently.

I have a whole case of gloves (I am/was a demo rep for a natural foods company) and I have masks I can wear, but I don't feel it's safe for me or for other people If I am in the stores, I can say with certainty that I am not responsible if someone else in that store, customer or employee, gets sick. I will continue to remain home and not work until there is some sort of vaccine or something else (herd immunity?) happens where the medical community feels it's safe for us as a society to go back in public. I am sure things are going to be vastly different in coming months even if businesses open back up and they restart the economy. It's likely nothing will be "normal" ever again.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2020 08:17PM by JASFLALMT.

So someone other than you bought your bread and it was okay because it was corporate that they might have otherwise thrown out. Here the bread merchandisers remove bread that is close to expiration date to go to places such as Dollar Tree or the various 99 cent bread stores where the public can buy bread inexpensively. A fair amount of it makes it to the Food Bank as well for free gifting to the needy. The grocery stores here send the vast majority of their bakery bread that does not sell to the Food Bank and at least one chain does not reduce prices on aging meat or produce because it all goes to the Food Bank.

As for "love". "Agape is a Greco-Christian term referring to love, 'the highest form of love, charity' and 'the love of God for man and of man for God'." Wikipedia And from Thomas Aquinas we have, "The habit of charity extends not only to the love of God, but also to the love of our neighbor."

Definition of charity according to Merriam Webster is:
1a : generosity and helpfulness especially toward the needy or suffering
also : aid given to those in need
example: received charity from the neighbors
b : an institution engaged in relief of the poor
example: raised funds for several charities
c : public provision for the relief of the needy
example: too proud to accept charity
2 : benevolent goodwill toward or love of humanity
example: The holidays are a time for charity and goodwill.
3a : a gift for public benevolent purposes
b : an institution (such as a hospital) founded by such a gift
4 : lenient judgment of others
example: The critic was liked for his charity and moderation.

A volunteer at a Church fish fry is exhibiting charity or agape, as is the lady who turns the leftover heels of bread into bread pudding for the enjoyment of the congregation, as is the person donating to the Food Bank as an organized way of getting food to those in need, as is the barber who turned over all the latex gloves from his shop to the hospital to help them in treating the influx of COVID patients, as is the couple who found and purchased 30,000 medical masks and gave half to the hospital and half to people in their community, as is the kid who put a box of his books on the curb with a sign saying 'Take a Book--Leave a Book' with a reminder to put the book out of the way for a couple of days and wash your hands. Caring or charitable behavior towards others is the pinnacle of Agape, which is indeed love.

I've been on the "protect lives side" mostly, but have acknowledged that I haven't fully given time to better understanding the "protect the economy side."

Being generous to Shop-et-al, who has shown fairness, intelligence, and kindness on this forum to many people and to me, I don't think she was necessarily being exclusive. I think sometimes we have our own priorities in our mind and say certain things without necessarily meaning to be exclusive of other things.

For example, I mentioned risk factors above, but recognize that many who are young are also affected and we may not fully know why yet. It may take years to understand. So, I definitely AGREE that everyone should be careful (not just because anyone can be affected and end up hospitalized/die, but also to not be a spreader). I had just forgotten to mention that to be thorough. I think there are more "protect lives" prioritizers on this forum (at least, in terms of comments posted) and we tend to think of that aspect first. I don't think we don't care about the economy. It's probably just secondary for us, due to our unique make-up and circumstances.

I understand (even if not fully) the open the economy side. I am privileged and know that I can last for a few years without having to work and be financially very comfortable, due to family help and my own investment portfolio. Someone else who is living paycheck to paycheck and maybe has debt to service on top of that may be MORE SCARED of how they'll survive without a job/income than of the virus itself. They may be bereft of immediate needs: toiletries; food; gas money; cell phone bill money, etc. That lack is a form of suffering too. And, they may worry that this could affect their lives for years if we go into a deep recession/depression. Just a few months ago, some of these people may have been bright and optimistic and the sudden shock of things being shutdown can be a tremendous stress.

I have zero doubts about Shopetal's goodness, even if we may express our concerns differently (so often I just think disagreements on a forum are communication issues and not so much personal or issues-based) and have genuine differences of perspective/priority on a topic.

i.e., Of course, SEL cares about lives, but is expressing concern and frustration for the economy side of things.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2020 09:07PM by shoptastic.

It was the store brand bread, not a national brand. They merchandise their own brands. I don't merchandise bread and I do not represent any national brands. It's not part of my job and it's out of my control.

I sure don't "love" that store or any business for that matter.

Mother Theresa, Jesus, and other great people throughout history undoubtedly loved their fellow man. I doubt that the majority of the population loves their fellow man. Kindness and compassion, maybe, but real love?

And the forum member who stated that they "loved" Shop-et-al is also the same person that posted the following:

"I wonder if I should order a custom shirt that reads: "I have HIV - keep 6-feet from me.""

@Flash wrote:

Here the bread merchandisers remove bread that is close to expiration date to go to places such as Dollar Tree or the various 99 cent bread stores where the public can buy bread inexpensively.

Currently, a roughly 60-40 majority of Americans seem to favor the lockdown measures over opening up right now: [www.bloomberg.com]

@ wrote:

Nearly six in 10 Americans say they’re more concerned that a relaxation of stay-at-home restrictions would leave to more Covid-19 deaths than they are that the measures have gone to far and will hurt the economy, a poll showed on Sunday.

Still, responses to the NBC News-Wall Street Journal poll taken April 13-15 fell along predictable partisan lines. Democrats and independents were more worried about the virus than the economy, while Republicans, by 48% to 39%, were more concerned about the economy.

eta: Bloomberg's editors may need some coffee!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2020 09:37PM by shoptastic.