Bait and switch and signed invoices.

So company A quotes to fix a toilet for $30 and Company B quotes $60. Person chooses company A since it is the cheapest option. When the guy comes to fix the toilet and finishes he hands an invoice of $120. The additional $90 is added arbitrarily and with no reason. Say the person signed the invoice because they felt pressured and didn't know what to do, since I believe this to be a bait and switch situation, would the person still have to pay the $120 even when the person signed the invoice?

Trying to settle this argument on a different forum and I couldn't find any answers.

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I think it depends on the quote itself. Was it a verbal quote or written quote? If it was written, was there legally binding language written in the quote? If it was verbal there was no real legal obligation. A quote is an estimate, so there may be other work that needs to be done after the project is started which raises the price. Was there an agreed upon contract signed prior to services rendered?

Most importantly, signing the document means you agree to whats on the document. If the document says you owe $120, then that's what you agreed to pay.

@DavePi wrote:

... would the person still have to pay the $120 even when the person signed the invoice? ...

Legally, who knows? I can't tell if this is a hypothetical question. But if this happened to me in real life, I would contact the owner of the shop and try to settle it at that level. Estimates are always understated. However, I agree with the bait and switch analogy because they charged much more than the estimate and failed to provide an updated estimate before continuing with the work and then failed to provide an explanation when asked. Tell the owner you'd be willing to pay $x and you both part on good terms. See if he accepts. If not, inform him that you'll write a Yelp review stating that you were overcharged by-- pick one; they're all equivalent: [$90, 4 times the estimate, 4,000% more than the estimate; quadruple the estimate].

Even if the signature is legally binding (and you'd have to ask a lawyer if it is), you can still go to the Consumer Protection Agency in your state and file a complaint. Each state works differently, but in most states, mediators will contact the company to see if the company wishes to reconsider the situation. No guarantees, but sometimes it's enough to shame the company into doing the right thing. Here's where to find the agency in your state [www.usa.gov]

duplicate post deleted

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2016 10:27PM by ChrisCooper.

@DavePi wrote:

So company A quotes to fix a toilet for $30 and Company B quotes $60. Person chooses company A since it is the cheapest option. When the guy comes to fix the toilet and finishes he hands an invoice of $120. The additional $90 is added arbitrarily and with no reason. Say the person signed the invoice because they felt pressured and didn't know what to do, since I believe this to be a bait and switch situation, would the person still have to pay the $120 even when the person signed the invoice?

Trying to settle this argument on a different forum and I couldn't find any answers.

Using a mock courtroom, can you answer the following questions?

1. Is the person elderly or mentally impaired(to prove duress these must be considered).

2. Did the plumber at any point say "Its going to cost more than $30, we looking at $120 to $150 now) or hand you the bill without your approval?

3. Why did the customer not ask questions, how come they would sit back and sign a invoice that's four-times the original quote?

4. Why did you feel pressure to conform and not fight off a false charge?

5. Were you under any type of drug or medication diminishing your capacity to understand the extra charge.

1. no
2. simple fix that should not have cost more than the 30-60 price range. Told the $120 invoice after fixing said toilet.
3,4 house smells like pot and the plumber said to call the police to straighten things out. Said person is black. Said person is on parole.
5. Said person is possibly high.

What does his race have to with it?

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@LisaSTL wrote:

What does his race have to with it?

It matters when the police get involved, unfortunately.

Oh I'm aware of that. It's why the OP found that something to include with negatives such as parole and possibly being high I was questioning. Perhaps the being high thing was an assumption because, you know "those people" would do that. SMH.

@LisaSTL wrote:

Oh I'm aware of that. It's why the OP found that something to include with negatives such as parole and possibly being high I was questioning. Perhaps the being high thing was an assumption because, you know "those people" would do that. SMH.

My guess would be because all three of those things combined would be a detriment to the person if the police were involved, which is why they signed the paperwork to begin with. I'd rather foot the bill than go back to prison. I was under the impression that OP maybe knew the person, or the person he's speaking about gave up the info on the other forum. And he may have assumed he could be high because his house smelled like weed. But just assumptions and guesses. Either way said person dug a hole for himself, not a large one though.

@LisaSTL wrote:

Oh I'm aware of that. It's why the OP found that something to include with negatives such as parole and possibly being high I was questioning. Perhaps the being high thing was an assumption because, you know "those people" would do that. SMH.

All races smoke weed and get high, I'm not singling blacks. Hell, I smoke weed too.

EDit: Jeb Bush smoked pot when he was a youngling. Just popped into my head.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/27/2016 01:28AM by DavePi.

The plumber is the one who suggested calling the police because the OP would be charged with theft of service for not paying.

@DavePi wrote:

@LisaSTL wrote:

Oh I'm aware of that. It's why the OP found that something to include with negatives such as parole and possibly being high I was questioning. Perhaps the being high thing was an assumption because, you know "those people" would do that. SMH.

All races smoke weed and get high, I'm not singling blacks. Hell, I smoke weed too.

EDit: Jeb Bush smoked pot when he was a youngling. Just popped into my head.

And all races have people out on parole too, and while I agree police is more likely to respond different to different races, I also find the need to tell race completely irrelevant.

@jnoyolapicazzo wrote:

@DavePi wrote:

@LisaSTL wrote:

Oh I'm aware of that. It's why the OP found that something to include with negatives such as parole and possibly being high I was questioning. Perhaps the being high thing was an assumption because, you know "those people" would do that. SMH.

All races smoke weed and get high, I'm not singling blacks. Hell, I smoke weed too.

EDit: Jeb Bush smoked pot when he was a youngling. Just popped into my head.

And all races have people out on parole too, and while I agree police is more likely to respond different to different races, I also find the need to tell race completely irrelevant.

Its not irrelevant in this instance, imo. Lisa asked why the person did not question the issue. Said person's response may have been, "I'm black and on parole, plus my house smells like weed.I don't want police involved because this mix could end badly for me." I don't think it was used to lessen the impression of the person in question, just to show why he was unwilling to fight what he felt was unjust.

The hole in this post is growing bigger than his lol

Maybe that's how the toilet got broken in the first place? " Police", "It's a raid." flush, flush, flush...
Ahh, to be young again, and have friends with misspent lives..( and a stash to get rid of quick.)

You might not think it's important, but it actually is for the person who's black. I wouldn't want to be black in America, you kidding me? Blacks are incredibly more likely to go to jail on any issue the cop has discretion as.

Blacks are more likely to go back to prison for any parole violation (which is where the pot smell + race comes in) he's @#$%& if the police show up and run his name.

Black are more likely to NOT get the benefit of the doubt in the judicial system.

Blacks and whites commit crimes at the same rates as yellow, brown, green, and every other color person yet white people are the ones who get the least time and punishment.

Being black is VERY relevant in this particular situation.

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Ok so I misread because the way I understood it the repair person was black and everything else. And I know (and said so in my post) police will treat black (or any non-white) differently. So that's why I felt race was irrelevant. I read again and I get it now... I'd make an awful editor

I'm with everyone who thought "said person" was the plumber. If it was the homeowner it changes the entire context. Would we make such awful editors or does that post need to be sent back to the shopper for clarification

@LisaSTL wrote:

Would we make such awful editors or does that post need to be sent back to the shopper for clarification

We editors need to send the postback to the OP for a clarification with feedback about writing clear explanations. Then we can properly express opinions on the post.

@jrossetti wrote:

Blacks and whites commit crimes at the same rates as yellow, brown, green, and every other color person yet white people are the ones who get the least time and punishment. .

In case you're actually interested in the facts instead of spewing victimology soundbytes, you might look at the crime statistics by race at the FBI: [www.fbi.gov].

However, it's not because of race. If you control for ONE factor, just one, the rates become nearly equal across racial and socio-economic lines. That one factor is having the father in the home. Who commits violent crime? Boys without fathers in the home. Over 70% of black families are single-parent while fewer than 5% of Asian families are. That's what accounts for the difference. Not the color of the skin. You're far more likely to be the victim of a violent crime from a white man who grew up in a home without a father than from a black man who had an intact family.

ETA: Changed link to official FBI

Now scheduling travel shops for the day after Christmas through mid-January.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2016 05:57PM by PasswordNotFound.

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Bait and switch and signed invoices.

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