Below is the scenario given to me. Because of the poor writing, I interpreted it a different way and my shop was rejected. I read the part, "or doors for your home or apartment" therefore I thought I would be able to literally ask about a replacement knob/lock-set for doors FOR my home or apartment. Had there not been so many "or's" in the run-on sentence it would have been easier to understand. I am guessing another part of the reason I read it this way is because every apartment I have ever lived in would never allow their entry or exit doors to be changed, so in my strange way of thinking this even furthered my notion that I could ask about a replacement for "doors FOR your home or apartment."

Had I used writing in a report for a MSC like below I would have been docked points because it would not have been clear enough. It is poorly written. The whole scenario was summed up into one run-on sentence/paragraph. These MSC companies have my brain trained to write perfectly, now when someone else uses poor writing I cannot understand it.

I am so aggravated I cannot even explain what I am trying to say. It is not easy to put into words. Live and learn I guess. This is one of those times when I am frustrated with the MSC's poor writing but yet they want shoppers to have a Ph'D in grammar.

When I questioned this in an email, she laid out the scenario in the email a different way; "The scenario was for an external / exterior entry/exit door. The job instructions are very specific and give you a scenario which is to be used."
Now had the instructions been written that way in the shop details, no problem but they were not.

Well in any such case here is the exact scenario they gave me.

Scenario:
You are required to enter the Hardware Department and will need to relay that you "are looking to replace a door handle or door knob" and lock set for an external Entry or Exit door or doors for your home or apartment, be prepared to supply some details if asked.

Hmmm. I probably would have been looking for a locking doorknob for the bathroom. Guess I would not have been 'following the scenario' either. I certainly can see how the sentence could have been diagrammed differently for a different outcome. Odd comment anyway--is there an 'Exit' door to your home that is not also an 'Entry'?

If you groups the 'or's' in singular components and correct the grammar it makes more sense, as far as what the client expected:

Scenario:

You are required to enter the Hardware Department and relay that you are looking to replace a door handle/knob and lock set for an external Entry/Exit door(s) for your home/apartment. Be prepared to supply some details if asked.

Seems like a lesson learned and hopefully you were not out any $$ for the shop.

True and I know what they mean now but I should not have to clean up the schedulers grammar. They would never clean up ours without docking points, rejecting shops or putting us down, therefore they should not expect us to do their job.
I am not blaming the client. In addition to myself, I do think the scheduler is partly at fault here for using horrible grammar.
If I had rejected shops in the past or bad scores I would have chalked it up to me being a crummy shopper but this has never been the case. That is why it irks me so much. I have never had a rejected shop or a bad score. The lowest score I ever got was 8/10 and that is only because they gave me a four hour window to do the shop, get home and enter it. I had to rush.
I do not watch my grammar as much on message boards so what I do here is not indicative of how my reports are.
I am out $21.00 though. Oh well....

Well, this is the same company that want me to buy a REGALER HOT DOG.
Isabel
Enjoy Life

Sorry, I double clicked.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2010 04:00AM by izzyshop.

I am totally confused. Maybe it is the late hour and the glass of wine I am drinking while reading this - but how exactly did you interpret the scenario and what did you ask for? A new lock set and handle for an interior door?

If that is the case, honestly - while the scenario is not written with the best grammar ever, I still think it is clear what they are asking you to do.

But maybe I am missing something.

Once you have read there is an issue you are reading much more closely, MickeyB. Read closely you will figure out what they meant. I tried to read in 'quick scan mode', which is what generally is required for shop instructions that are written well and what I came up with was 'replace a door handle or door knob [for] doors for your home or apartment'. I saw that an external door was a possibility, but a tenant would not be replacing exterior locks without specific landlord permission due to the terms of every lease I ever saw.

The moral of this story is to ask for clarification on anything that's confusing...

This could have been cleared up in advance of the shop.

l was not confused when I did the shop. The way the scheduler has it written says that a lock can be purchased for an exterior door or doors for the home or apartment. I asked about a set for my home office, which I needed a locking set for. When the MSC wants perfect grammar then they should have their schedulers follow suit because now that is what I look for and not purposely.

I see both points, and I think part of the issue is background experience. The word "external" is the one that stood out to me, and I have always been able to replace an external lock in any apartment I've lived in. But again, I do see bobdav's point. AND, Steve's!

This difference is subtle, which is why you should have been confused:

A=a lock set for an external Entry or Exit door(s) for your home or apartment.

B=a lock set for an external Entry or Exit door, or doors for your home or apartment.

The addition of the comma gives the meaning the bobav read into it. The fact that the only comma in place should have been a period and no commas are present where they should be makes it confusing.

I agree (See my rant elsewhere) that MSC's need to set the standards for grammar/punctuation, and that bobav should have at least been given some remuneration considering the confusing nature of the instructions.

I'm just saying that when you have to start diagraming the sentence to establish its true meaning, it's time to call for a clarification....

I did this shop last week and I too can see all points. IMO though, the first thing that stood out to me when doing the quick scan through was external.

I did as Flash suggested and read it in quick scan mode (and while well-rested and NOT while drinking a glass of wine) and I see now how it could have been interpreted as you say you did bobdav.

Personally - assuming it is okay by Steve, I would take Steve's points with the A and B scenario above and email it to the MSP requesting that they reconsider their rejection of your report (as well as re-write their guidelines).

I agree with Mickey. Send them the 2 comparisons and illuminate how confusing the instructions were.

Even if they don't reconsider the rejection, you may help to keep someone else from suffering the same problem.

Well thanks for the critiques. I am going to email the company and point everything out. I do not expect to get very far but we will see. I went through all my paperwork twice to see if I missed something but that is the only scenario given.

I just found something odd on their site as well. They have all of their jobs in my area put back up and bonused. Most of these were taken. So either they have had several flakes or all of those jobs were rejected. Strange....never seen that happen. They have a nice bonus on my rejected shop and nobody has taken it yet.

They did not send an email to tell me mine was rejected, or why. I had to message them. Not sure if this is the norm with MSC's, as it has never happened before.
A lesson learned.

I've had one shop rejected, and was not notified or told why, either, but I'd guess it varies with each MSC.

My situation was a little more complicated, but the basis for the rejection was also instructions. After about 3 back and forth emails, the decision ultimately was reversed, and the shop was paid. So, it's definitely worth a shot! And as pointed out, at the very least, speaking out might benefit other shoppers.

Good luck, bobdav!

I should not even let it bother me. I sell on eBay and that first rejected shop feels like the first negative feedback on eBay, lol. Especially when it feels like an unfair negative. It is a tiny blow to the pride when it happens.

I'm feeling a little feisty today, so I would argue that it DOES make a difference. I enjoyed for a very long period of time the knowledge that I had NEVER had a shop rejected. There was always some way of getting it to work out in a mutually satisfactory way (of course neither side was ecstatic--that is the nature of compromise). I still have my perfect rating on eBay, though I have had unreasonable requests made to keep it that way. I also have zero traffic tickets because I have shown up on court dates of the two that were issued to protest them. There are some things that are worth the bother.

Who would I talk to over at the company? I do not think the scheduler is going to write back to me. One person said they would forward my concerns to the scheduler (my opinions on the poorly written instructions)and I have heard nothing from her yet. Well except for the the very first email, where she told me the shop was rejected because I did not follow instructions. They were quick enough to respond within 12 hours to tell me I was wrong but not so fast when I may be right. I just do not think the schedulers are going to be of any help to me at this stage.

I would call the company and indicate that, "I really need to talk with someone about the XYZ shops." They will try to put you off, but suggest that perhaps the 'account executive' for them is the person you need to speak with. I would try to avoid the word 'rejected' until you are talking with a person in some control of the shop itself. The 'questions' you have are 'apparently not something my scheduler can answer for me'.

SteveSoCal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This difference is subtle, which is why you should
> have been confused:
>
> A=a lock set for an external Entry or Exit door(s)
> for your home or apartment.
>
> B=a lock set for an external Entry or Exit door,
> or doors for your home or apartment.
>
> The addition of the comma gives the meaning the
> bobav read into it. The fact that the only comma
> in place should have been a period and no commas
> are present where they should be makes it
> confusing.
>
> I agree (See my rant elsewhere) that MSC's need to
> set the standards for grammar/punctuation, and
> that bobav should have at least been given some
> remuneration considering the confusing nature of
> the instructions.
>
> I'm just saying that when you have to start
> diagraming the sentence to establish its true
> meaning, it's time to call for a clarification....

With scenario ( one could feasibly shop for doors for ones home or apartment and still be within the letter of the law of the guidleines

They are ignoring me now, I think. I cannot find a number on their site to call them. I have never waited several days for an answer from them. I have emailed this company numerous times and they always get back to me right away. The only option I get when I click "contact us" is a form that gets sent to the scheduler. They were quick enough to reply when I asked why it was rejected, (8 hours) now they are not responding at all. If they are dead-set against my belief that the instructions were poorly written, then they should at least email me back and tell me this. I wonder if they are not replying because they know I am half-way right and are just hoping I will let it go and buzz off. I hope this is not the case. If they are reviewing my issue they should at least keep me updated. I am afraid if I pester them too much they will deactivate me.

Well they did get back to me this afternoon and the account manager agreed to pay. So that is really good. I guess sometimes it does pay off to speak up when you feel you have been wronged by a MSC. I am glad that this is an honest company to work with. I would be curious to see if they updated the instructions so other shoppers do not read them wrong. The job has disappeared from my job search.

I am delighted that this has been resolved. Obviously they did not get what they wanted, but obviously you gave them what you understood they wanted. Bad deal all around and yes, hopefully they will clean up their scenario so that others don't make the same stumble.

Fantastic, bobdav! Glad you got payment, as well as a sense of satisfaction!

Well I probably would not have even pushed the issue if I would not have gotten encouragement and critiques from the smart folks here on this forum. So thank you very much!
While I have been shopping on and off since 2007 I really did not learn much until visiting forums and talking with other shoppers. I have learned quite a bit more than I ever would have on my own.

...or, as Bill Clinton would say, "It depends on what the definition of or is."