Such a sad day. Let us send our thoughts to the families impacted. Just want to make one statement. This is the face and definition of severe mental illness. To look for a motive is, unfotunately unproductive.

Found out about this tragedy while out on assignment today. Was getting ready to settle in and eat my meal, and then one of the restaurant employees came out and informed everyone about the shooting. Everyone was shocked and horror-struck.

Horror is almost an understatement. I'm not sure why this one affected me more than all the others. Maybe it was the combination of the ages of those children, the unbelievable number killed and the season. It utterly pissed me off to hear it referred to as the worst grade school shooting in U.S. history. There should not be any comparisons because there should never have been one and certainly not more than one.

Typing from my phone before, it seemed the better choice to keep it brief and apolitical. It struck me that once again we have a shooter with an automatic weapon. Growing up around hunters and gun owners and believing in the Constitution, I have no ulterior motive to get all guns banned in this country. However, the idea that a weapon which is nothing more than a killing machine remains legal on any level is beyond me. The hunters in my family and others I have known do not see any hardship related to gun laws and waiting periods. Not one of them owns any type of assault rifle and feels no need to have one for either hunting or protecting their family. I know guns do not kill people, people kill people. But tell me this, is there a legitimate reason outside the military to give any person the ability to kill a multitude of other people in mere seconds without even having to take the time to reload?

As a teacher of kindergarteners, my heart is broken and I can't even think straight this morning. I feel as I did on the day of 911. It's not about building stronger doors, security systems or gun control (though that would help). I've been around awhile and have been in school systems for a long time. What I'm seeing is a definite change in culture and values. The proliferation of violent games and movies is desensitizing our youth. Until we can somehow turn around the mindset of family values and can figure out why there are so very many young people with Asperberger's, Autism and other mental illnesses, I'm afraid we're going to see this type of thing again. So many children today have issues...and severe issues. Something has changed and it's not for the good. I'm so sad today. God bless the teachers and principal in that school who did everything they could the right way and it still didn't work.

Like LisaSTL, this tragedy seemed to affect me especially hard as well. Not sure why. It was a helluva thing to find out the way I did on a dining assignment. It was everything I could do to hold it together until I could get out of the restaurant.

MsJudi is right. Something has changed in our society in order for something like this to happen - especially more and more frequently with increasingly devastating results.

I, too, for some reason was so affected by this shooting. Maybe because most of the victims were really just babies in my eyes. And I agree that the culture has changed. I think there are many factors involved in the change and a lot of it began years ago when they stopped allowing prayer in school and we evolved into the nasty video games, etc. When we grew up the most dangerous game we played was Monopoly. I know they will start on the gun laws changes but I really think we need to do something about mental illness and how we handle it.

Years ago my daughter had just moved here from Phila. after completing one semester at a small college in Phila. About a year after she was here, one of her classmates rang the doorbell. When her younger brother answered the door the guy told him he had gone to school with his sister, so of course, my son left him in. To make a long story short it turned out that he had this fantasy/obsession that he and my daughter were married. I called the police, the Governor's office, the mental health clinics, etc. to try to keep this guy away from my daughter. Police could not do anything nor could any of the other authorities. Police have to actually see the person do something before they can commit the person and then the mental health facilities can only keep the person for a couple days and then they release them back on the street again. In our case, I was able to call the college and since it was a small Catholic school one of the Sister's said she couldn't give me the classmate's home phone but she would call. His Dad called me right away and flew out here to get his son and take him home. So in our case all ended well.

MsJudi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ..Until we can somehow turn
> around the mindset of family values and can figure
> out why there are so very many young people with
> Asperberger's, Autism and other mental illnesses...

Just want to clarify: Asperger's is not a mental illness. The suspect is alleged also to have a personality disorder, according to his brother.

I know that we all sincerely want to find an explanation for this kind of meaningless loss of life. But there is no one factor that can be 100% verified as the cause. In the meantime, everyone has their own opinions as to how and why this happened.

Forgive me if I seem presumptuous, because that is the last thing that I intend. However, this speculation is a waste of energy and spirit. No solutions will arise from it. We can never truly know what is the tipping point for an individual struggling with inner pain in whatever form it may take.

Instead, I would encourage each and every one of us to be a bit more conscious of how we interact with others, whether for mere seconds while out on assignment or while engaging in more permanent relationships such as those we have with friends and family. In order to make the world a better place, it is critical to concentrate on improving our own little corner of it. Sometimes the smallest gestures can mean the most, and sometimes can have a much farther reaching impact than one would realize.

It's easy to get caught up in the chaos and hubbub of our lifes. So I try to consciously step back from time to time and ask myself what I have done that very day to make someone smile.

A long time friend of mine commented and reminded me that when the 2nd ammendment was drafted the only guns were muskets with gun powder, very short range and one shot. It was meant to be armed in case of English intrusion. At the very least Congress should bring back the assualt rifle ban. While this is a drop in the ocean, at least we would be heading in the right moral direction.
Thank you to all who posted thoughful messages Especially Lisa and Judi. I was profoundly affected and I think because of the reasons you guys stated.

I have guns and oppose disarming this country but I would not object to a ban on assault weapons. Weapons for hunting or personal protection, fine, but assault weapons are not defensive weapons, unless you are at war.

Thank you, Minnie, for the comments about Aspergers. I have a close friend with Aspergers who is a software designer and another friend whose daughter has it and is a very benign and intelligent young lady working in a medical lab now. Aspergers does not cause violence and I'd hate to see people become suspicious of Aspie's over this matter.

Thank you for clarifying. I did not mean to intend that Asperberger's was at the root of this or any other violence. However, those with Asperger's many times display antisocial behavior. This is NOT the case in all of those with Aspberger's or autism, especially for those who have received early intervention and the wonderful care of specialized teachers. Many go undiagnosed due to parental denial or ignorance. That can lead to problems IMHO.

There will always be those who are sick, deranged, criminal, insane, troubled, loners, and those with weapons both legal and illegal. This does not mean we are helpless, sitting ducks, and that there is nothing that we can do to protect life.

Twenty 5 and 6 year old children shot to death. It's sickening. This is not about having our hands tied due to mental health, politics, the NRA, or the Constitution. Collectively, we must pull together and demand that effective measures be taken. Now.

My heart goes out to the victims also, but restricting handgun use is not the answer. Look at the per capita statistics and you will see that the states with the toughest anti-gun laws tend to have the highest gun crume rates whilst those states with the more relaxed gun laws tend to have less gun crime. Want further proof...look at Switzerland. Every male over the age of 18 is required to have a machine gun in his house. Their gun crime rate is almost zero.

Please let me know where this info about guns in Switzerland is coming from. Seriously I want to know. My brother was telling me this tonight, I researched it and gun laws in Switzerland are as or more restrictive than here. I didnot intend for this thread to go this way, but I guess inevitable.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2012 06:37AM by cynb.

Please go to GunPolicy.org and click on Switzerland for statistics.

I keep coming back to this thread and want to add my heartfelt sympathies to everyone involved. This is horrible and sickening and I certainly understand the quote from someone there who said "Christmas has been canceled." I'm absolutely too heartbroken to have anything to write. I'm speechless and deeply saddened.

cynb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please let me know where this info about guns in
> Switzerland is coming from. Seriously I want to
> know. My brother was telling me this tonight, I
> researched it and gun laws in Switzerland are as
> or more restrictive than here. I didnot intend for
> this thread to go this way, but I guess
> inevitable.


In Switzerland, every able bodied male over the age of 18 is in their army. They are required to keep their weapons in their homes.

While that is based in truth, it is extremely over-simplified. A quick Google search returned the following:

[www.businessinsider.com]

This is also part of the Wikipedia entry:

The Swiss army has long been a militia trained and structured to rapidly respond against foreign aggression. Swiss males grow up expecting to undergo basic military training, usually at age 20 in the Rekrutenschule (German for "recruit school"), the initial boot camp, after which Swiss men remain part of the "militia" in reserve capacity until age 30 (age 34 for officers).
Each such individual is required to keep his army-issued personal weapon (the 5.56x45mm Sig 550 rifle for enlisted personnel and/or the 9mm SIG-Sauer P220 semi-automatic pistol for officers, medical and postal personnel) at home. Up until October 2007, a specified personal retention quantity of government-issued personal ammunition (50 rounds 5.56 mm / 48 rounds 9mm) was issued as well, which was sealed and inspected regularly to ensure that no unauthorized use had taken place.[4] The ammunition was intended for use while traveling to the army barracks in case of invasion.
In October 2007, the Swiss Federal Council decided that the distribution of ammunition to soldiers shall stop and that all previously issued ammo shall be returned. By March 2011, more than 99% of the ammo has been received. Only special rapid deployment units and the military police still have ammunition stored at home today.[5]
When their period of service has ended, militiamen have the choice of keeping their personal weapon and other selected items of their equipment. In this case of retention, the rifle is sent to the weapons factory where the fully automatic function is removed; the rifle is then returned to the discharged owner. The rifle is then a semi-automatic or self-loading rifle.

James Bond 007.5 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cynb Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Please let me know where this info about guns
> in
> > Switzerland is coming from. Seriously I want
> to
> > know. My brother was telling me this tonight,
> I
> > researched it and gun laws in Switzerland are
> as
> > or more restrictive than here. I didnot intend
> for
> > this thread to go this way, but I guess
> > inevitable.
>
>
> In Switzerland, every able bodied male over the
> age of 18 is in their army. They are required to
> keep their weapons in their homes.

Please 007 I sincerely would like to know what your sources are for this statement. All you did is repeat yourself.
Thanks Lisa for the clarification. Interesting.

Bushmaster: 45 rounds in one minute. Legal to buy. The weapon used.

I hope everyone can take the time to become involved in the #26 Acts of Kindness movement started by Ann Curry to honor the victims of this tragedy.

I was incredibly moved to read about the things people have been doing in tribute, both small and large. It restored my faith in the goodness of others, and reminded me of the power that each and every one of us has to create change.

May we all be inspired to do something tangible and positive and worthwhile. I'd love it if we could really get this off the ground in our mystery shopping world, and to share our stories.

Please check it out...
[usnews.nbcnews.com]

My heart is sad, this great country knows what to do, but because of $$ stands still. Thank you Obama for now (finally) addressing gun control, does anyone NEED a rifle like the one that was used, and a word to parents of the mentally sick,
please don't keep guns in the house and watch your children, get them help, do whatever it takes. Imagine sending your child to school, and never seeing them again....just too heartbreaking!!

Please "like" this message to indicate that you would like to be involved in the #26 Acts Of Kindness, and if enough of this community responds, I will start a new thread where we can share our stories.

Thanking everyone in advance for their willingness to get out there and do something to make a difference in their own corner of the world, and to inspire others to do the same.

I am So IN. Do you want to start a new thread, shopgal, in order to make it more prominent?
Here is what I did yesterday and today: Yesterday as I was unlocking my apartment door I saw that I had a new neighbor, unlocking his door I said "Hi, did you just move in?" And he said, yes 2 weeks ago. I said I am Cindy, he said I am Hasid. I responded please knock on my door if you need anything and he responded, please do the same.
Today I was at the bus stop and a younger guy with a bike startied talking nonstop and was obviously distressed and mentally challenged. I listened mostly and reminded him when the bus was coming and to get his bike on the rack. A s I listened and nodded, he became increasingly calmer.
As I was walking downtown, many strangers said hello and a lot wished me merry christmas or happy holidays.
EVERY THING COUNTS.

FYI: Acts Of Kindness has now been moved to its own thread.

I haven't chimed in until now because I haven't been able to. I have been reading the news stories and looking at the pictures and crying every time I see a photo of one of those big smiles. I now know every one of their names and faces.

Here's the thing, I have children the age of the victims, as well as an older child who struggles with severe Bi-Polar Disorder and Oppositional Defiance Disorder.
Arguments can be made for many sides. From experience, I am well aware of the limited resources there are for mental health care for children. My options are few. The first and only option at the present time is to take my son to a clinic that only caters to the drug companies. They dole out prescriptions but show little interest in actually helping the kids. The second option is to sit on a waiting list for months and months with him receiving NO care at all in the hopes that one of the overcrowded pediatric psychological doctors will have an opening. Mostly what I hear is, "Sorry, not taking new patients."

However, knowing my son's issues and struggles, you better believe I most definitely would NOT have a house full of assault rifles and handguns accessible to him. It had nothing to do with gun control, it's conscientious parenting. I realize she was killed as well, and I do feel for that, but seriously. My understanding is she took him shooting often and taught him how to use those guns. Though my son is not violent, he is destructive, emotional, defiant, and very very hard on himself. I keep even kitchen knives secured for fear of him hurting just himself. No one truly knows what goes on in his head or the full extent of the internal struggle, but I would not want to help it along. Think what you want, I am most definitely being judgmental from the side of a mother who deals with my child's illness every day, and faces it head on.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2012 11:54PM by Scarlet.

You are the most qualified among us to offer that perspective and I'm sorry for your struggles.

Of course there is no easy solution and gun control alone cannot change the world, it is only a piece of the puzzle and goes hand in hand with mental health care being more accessible and more affordable. Every politician who thinks that is a place to save money needs to come to the reality that it is cheap compared to the overwhelming price this society pays later.

. Until we can somehow turn
> around the mindset of family values and can figure
> out why there are so very many young people with
> Asperberger's, Autism and other mental illnesses,
> I'm afraid we're going to see this type of thing
> again.

Asperger's syndrome and autism are not mental illnesses. These are intellectual disabilities or developmental delays with which a person is born. In the old days, those with severe autism were sometimes diagnosed with mental retardation (This change in terms is, I think, one of the main reasons for the "increase" in autism.).

People who have Asperger's syndrome or more severe forms of autism can become mentally ill, but to my knowledge, they are no more likely to become mentally ill then anyone else.

Does anyone know if the shooter was actually diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome by a pediatrician or psychologist? I have been reading about the shooter and have been unable to find out if he was formally diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome by a pediatrician. By the way, it is my understanding that the diagnosis of Asperger's syndrome is the be removed from the next edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.