--Post removed by Jacob--

Is it just me or is this _extremely_ unprofessional? Granted, this person (and I refuse to name the individual) may have done something fraudulent, but there are recourses for that that can be taken in civil court (for a dollar value below $1000). Also, if this MSC feels someone has stolen from them, they can contact authorities, there may also be a criminal recourse. However, to post something so possibly damaging seems libelous. Defamation is something to take incredibly seriously and could potentially follow this person around their _entire_ lives.

Wow. I'm so shocked by this that I'm shaking. Is this common practice? The MSC states that they have been unable to get in touch with this person since after she said something would delay the shops. What if, god forbid, something terrible has happened to this girl? I don't see any mention of that or any concern, even, on the part of this MSC.

If the situation were reversed and someone had a problem with a person at an MSC and then took to the boards to speak out about that person, making libelous claims about them, I'm almost certain their company would rally and letters from their legal representatives would be issued-- cease and desist. There's no one here to defend this person besides us.

I just don't think this is right.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2012 02:25PM by jentodd.

First, unfortunately it is only libel if it is not true. It may be, it may not be. I have no clue. Is it unprofessional? ABSOLUTELY. I to be totally honest, am having a hard time getting over their terms. I have never heard about a company shelling the goods out before the report was submitted. Tickets? I get that. But hotel and comped meals?? Whether it was 2.00 or 600.00, I shell out and the company reimburses once I fulfill my part of the agreement. I really hope that she contacts them and can work it out.

I never saw that until just now. It is certainly not the norm. While the situation is obviously serious, there are better ways to deal with it than posting on the job board of a shopper's forum.

Why don't you send a PM to JacobJ and let him know. It is his forum and he will take any appropriate actions.

Hi Lisa,

Thank you. I sent an email to Jacob (had a hard time finding his address, but Google came to the rescue =)) and then also sent a note to Scot, himself, just urging him to reconsider.

Robin, I agree that it is libel if it is untrue, but I do think if this person were to get a lawyer and they were to see the post, itself, there might be some legal actions she could also take. I am not a lawyer, I only have first year contract law to draw from, but the whole situation seems incredibly dangerous and damaging to me.

I really hope this situation clears up and that a satisfactory conclusion is reached by all.

It's not the first time I've heard of companies arranging for comps on a big job, but I always figured they only used well-established shoppers they could trust. I have to wonder why someone would want to burn so many bridges and risk legal action over a comped room and some meals.

Exactly! Which is why I'm just a little worried for this person. I hope she's okay. =X

LisaSTL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's not the first time I've heard of companies
> arranging for comps on a big job, but I always
> figured they only used well-established shoppers
> they could trust. I have to wonder why someone
> would want to burn so many bridges and risk legal
> action over a comped room and some meals.

I'm way more jaded than you. But then again, I've always said that if I died tomorrow, the MSCs would just think I turned into a big old flake. Precious few would try to find out what had happened.

That type of post is one of the reasons why there are forums accessible only by schedulers.

It is debatable whether that post belongs on this forum. That's up to Jacob to decide. IMNSHO though, that post definitely does not belong on our job board.

Also, I know there are a lot of scams out there where an alleged MSC sends the shopper a check, blah, blah, blah. However, it is not true that legitimate MSCs never send checks to shoppers before the performance of shops.

For example, an MSC that I have worked with for years sent me several hundred dollars months ago to fund a long-term mystery shop. Yes, the payment cleared. Yes, I started the shop. I still have the money because, if all goes according to plan, this shop will take years to complete.

There are also other types of shops where the MSCs send shoppers money, tickets, gift cards, and other items of value to use for the shops.

I worked with that company before and it is a good one. I have received email about proects like the one of the post, but I could not do them since they require a mspa gold certificate.
Out of place? I do not know, we warn one another about scams. Actually that post make me realize how many companies read this forum and care to listen to our words.
On a side note, I think that was more an indirect message (warning) for the shopper, hoping she comes to this forum.
Just my 2 cents...

Why would the MSC send the shopper an indirect message if she ignored direct messages?

She seems to be alive and well. Found her Twitter account. She last posted on 8/13.

I noticed that Scott had posted the same note in the scheduler's forum on the V-god site. It was probably a bit of overkill to post it publicly, IMHO.

It's a on him in a way because he could have secured the comps better with a credit card or something of that nature. Letting $1k worth of comps out of your possession otherwise is asking for this sort of activity sooner or later IMHO, even from trusted shoppers. Yes, it's unprofessional on the shopper side of things, but shoppers do unprofessional stuff every day!

This shopper appears to be around and healthy, and knows the score. It's too late at this point and perhaps she got overwhelmed by the report or lost the data, and doesn't have the money to pony up right now. She may be one of us, but I doubt she would be willing to come forward in that case....

charyup-- I wholly disagree with you. In the case of us warning each other about scams, we do so after there is sufficient evidence brought forth, and in every case that I have seen, because of our skepticism (and for good reason), there needs to be proof offered to show that a scam is just that-- a scam.

If I blindly showed up tomorrow and made a post about XYZ's mystery shopping company and how they scammed me out of my payment (or what have you), people would want to know the details, what my role was, how the scam was perpetrated. They'd want something that could be corroborated, as they should.

In this case, there's one person's word (you can't even ask the other person involved, here). It doesn't matter if this person is a good person, or not, that's not even the issue. The issue is that there's no basis in fact.

Despite that, this is this person's _personal information_ (name, the place they're from.. heck, there's enough information here for Busy to find their twitter account, for crying out loud). It's a really life altering claim. And without the recourses that I've already mentioned (civil and criminal actions), it's just someone's accusation.

We're lucky enough to live in a place where people are presumed innocent until they're proven guilty. Get the conviction and then privately warn other MSCs if that's something that's important to you, but openly flaming a person, potentially ruin their livelihood for years to come, and doing so on a public internet forum is just-- well, it's not kosher to me.

Busy-- if that's the right person, then I'm glad to know that she's okay.

Lisa-- I think if people here found out that you'd even flaked on an assignment there would be such a search party the world has never seen the likes of. =) I promise to raise the call, myself!

I agree on the part of giving out the personal information. He could have used just a J. and the privately informing other companies (even though it really wouldn't change much, they are both illegal actions).
As per what you said about us sharing information when we get scammed...as far as I knoe we provisde the same kind of information that the MSC provided. None of us brought here, in this forum, the scamming MSC to let them defend themselves. Just like J. was not here to defend herself, the companies blamed are not here (and I know...their choice in both cases).
I am sure someone in her family knew that that great vacation was not free, but coming from somewhere. So even if she had some sort of problems, I think someone in her family could have informed the MSC when they called.
I still give the benefit of the doubt, till it is really clear that she did it intentionally. But if she indeed did it, I would stop calling her shopper and call her what she is: thief. One act like that can ruin the life for other shoppers. Now I am sure some changes will be done to those kind of shops...and might be something that prevent shoppers to accept hem (like a downpayment or give a c/c number).

BusyBee, what I meant with indirect message was trying to scare her by letting her know they wanted to move a legal action against her.

I found her Twitter as well. She actually has been active as of two hours ago (she did a retweet, not an original tweet). Love her Twitter handle, you guys should check it out...lol Sorry, I need some humor this am!

Another quick search, and I found her maiden name and her facebook page...wow, I am done being a creeper.

My opinion may be unpopular, but I agree with the mystery shopping company. People like that who steal from the MSC's are BAD for business and make it hard on honest shoppers. We don't hesitate to put non-paying mystery shopping companies on blast, so in fairness this person needs to be called out. I personally have had it up to here with people who game the system. Weather it be mystery shopping, government programs, etc. This needs to stop and they should be held accountable. There is no such thing as a free lunch people. Get out and work for you want. Ok. I am stepping down from my soap box now.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2012 01:29PM by audrialyn30.

charyop-- I won't call her anything other than shopper. I don't know _any_ of the surrounding circumstances, what she did or didn't do, and the truth is, neither do you.

I think you missed my point with what I said re: blind accusations v. corroborating evidence. If the same situation happened, _we_ would be the ones to question the shopper making the claim. Also, we know that shopping companies read these boards. If such a claim was made about another shopping company, you can bet that company (if they were here) would do their best to defend their image. However, as shoppers, we cannot post to that board, and there's certainly no one else that's going to. Shopping companies don't argue ethical issues, they come here to post jobs. So, there's no burden of proof.

pippa-- Sorry, I think that is really creepy. I don't think it's appropriate to post about her personal information, to begin with, let alone to stalk her around the internet and then post about it _more_.

Sorry, I rest all my shame/blame on Google. Have a great day everyone!

Aud- As I've said--at least three times, now-- there are ways for people to be held accountable (legally). And that's not here. Also, you have no idea if she did anything wrong. Would you like it if someone did that to you? Would you appreciate it if it was your name and location up there? Take a second to think about that. Would you also appreciate another shopper considering your "guilt" without any proof? What if it was you? What if she was the one saying, "this person needs to be called out."

It's clear to me that you feel like there's some sort of injustice with people "scamming the system". I just don't see how your feelings on the welfare system should come to bear on this situation.

@ jenntodd. My opinion stands. Obviously, I vehemantly disagree with you. I have very little patience or tolerance for people who game the system. This person knew full well that those comps were not free and work was required. She makes it bad for the mystery shoppers who work hard and are honest.

Because of her foolishness everybody else is going to be penalized, which is why I have an issue with this scenario. Even if somehow this case was a misunderstanding, stuff like this happens all the time, and I have problem with that. If someone stiffs a mystery shopping company, they deserve to be called out for it. We have no problem posting about Franchise Compliance and Freeman, so the MSC's deserve equal courtesies.

As for the welfare connection, gaming the system is gaming the system. I am personally tired of people thinking they can get something for nothing. Honest people pay for the unscrupoulous actions of others. We pay for it in higher tax dollars, and in this scenario we will pay for it with stricter guidelines and upfront payments. One bad apple, can ruin the bunch.

P.S if I ever hit my head and do something as dishonest at that. You have my complete permission to call me out by my name. I am woman enough to take the heat, if I do something irresponsible.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2012 02:12PM by audrialyn30.

Actually, we give these MSC so much information about us, that "I would be scared if I was deactivated, they could make my life a living hell."

As shoppers we aren't insured by this board but we do feel that the MSC we register with will protect us from scheduler abuse. I read the post and felt like, "now something esle is going to be added to our requirements before we can accept a job or is able to perform an assignment.

Now that AA has had a few post minutes to think, maybe he will apologize. I am sure each MSC has their own way of dealing with outrageous fraudulent shoppers, that we don't even know about. Scott was blowing off stream. He is probably responsible for sending the shopper all the credentials before verification was complete.

Ald -- How in the _world_ would you know what she did or didn't know, do, etc.. You don't even know this person is _alive_. For crying out loud, you wouldn't be able to identify her if she came up to you on the street corner and slapped you across the face!

You said "because of her foolishness everybody else is going to be penalized." Please list three qualitative ways that other shoppers are going to be penalized.

You said "One bad apple, can ruin the bunch."

Please illustrate for me how this one person (and lets, in your words, consider this a scenario, as none of us has any evidence that this person is actually responsible for anything) can ruin the rest of us?

It seems to me that you're fond of over-exaggeration and sweeping generalizations.

I've already addressed how this is different from the situation with Freeman. In that case, _many_ people had the same problem. It was both quantified and qualified (do you understand the difference?). There were more than one data point to show that, yes, Freeman had issues. Additionally, several people brought forth proof. There wasn't just one accusation.

Also, and seriously, I don't have the patience to debate this with you but-- welfare doesn't raise your tax dollars. It doesn't cost you more money. Feel free to Google "welfare myths" if you're interested in understanding it.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2012 02:20PM by jentodd.

@ Jentodd I agree I don't have the patience to debate with you either. You are obviously misinformed. Wasteful spending does equal higher tax dollars. It may not be blatantly obvious, but one or another we pay. I have little patience for people that gyp the system. The analogy I gave was appropriate, and I don't apologize for it, so deal with it.

If this person stiffed the MSC, she needs to accept the consequences of her actions and being called out by her name is one of those consequences.

Also if you read my post, you would know I already gave you two very valid reason, as to how shoppers will be penalized. Both are excellent reasons and I don't feel the need to give you another one.

Have a nice day.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2012 03:06PM by audrialyn30.

charyoup, this is entirely different than us discussing companies. When forum members present solid cases we take them seriously. When they present silly rantings with no information to back it up, we don't. A hell of a lot of companies have reps on this forum every day and are more than welcome to defend themselves. If you doubt that, look up Sentry and read the threads. Dave monitors the boards and responds. We also do a lot of self-policing here. Posters come along with wild and outrageous claims and members who have a track record with the company will share all of their good experiences making for a more fair and accurate portrait of a company. If this shopper is not part of Volition or Mystery Shopping Forum there is no network available to make her aware of the post.

BusyBee, most of us with experience have become aware of companies who will provide some upfront expenses, comps, etc. In general we tend to gloss over that and stick with the line, "no companies pay up front" just so we don't muddy the waters with the potential scam victims. People only believe what they want to believe

Jen, what can I say. Thanks!

Yay! Jacob has acted. =D

BTW, it looks like Jacob has taken care of the situation.

LisaSTL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> BusyBee, most of us with experience have become
> aware of companies who will provide some upfront
> expenses, comps, etc. In general we tend to gloss
> over that and stick with the line, "no companies
> pay up front" just so we don't muddy the waters
> with the potential scam victims. People only
> believe what they want to believe

Yep... which is why I never bring this up in any thread where the OP is asking if something is a scam. =D

Ald - Dare pondus idonea fumo.

Yes. Jacob sent a quick note agreeing and saying that he removed the post. I thank him for the help. =)

@ Jentodd Latin is a dead and boring language. It's cowardly to insult someone in a language they don't speak. I on the other and have no problem offering you this quote in English,

"A sharp tongue does not mean you have a keen mind."

I think since there's really nothing remaining to argue about and it's early in the morning, we could all start with a round of Bloody Mary's and bury the hatchet. Drinking inspirations have ben known to cure forum feuds in the past....

On the subject of being fair and balanced; MSCs have many options for tracking down shoppers and getting their money back. We have given over personal information, signed agreements and such. They know where to locate us, serve us papers and bring a lawsuit against any who do not comply. The supposed offensive is also just one individual act and the only way it gives shoppers a further bad name or inspires others to do the same is when it gets publicized by the MSC.

On the other hand, companies like Freeman and Franchise Compliance defraud shoppers continuously and it seems there is no governmental agency with authority over these acts, so the forum is just about the only line of defense against unscrupulous MSCs.

I would say that the two circumstances are simply not equal.