A comment in another post about grammar being critiqued, etc. led me to a thought I have had quite frequently with Mystery Shopping. We know that so many new shoppers try shopping for a few months and then drop it. The issues we hear complained about all too frequently are shops that are rejected and payments that are late and missing.

As a community, what is our responsibility to encourage or discourage those who are really not likely to make a go of shopping? Do we have any at all?

When someone comes on the board in such financial straits that they need to be paid/reimbursed in 2 weeks to pay their basic bills, is this a concern of ours?

When someone comes on the board who is barely able to express themselves in the language they will need to write reports in, is this a concern of ours?

Do we encourage a shopper we feel will likely have little or no success to purchase the materials, equipment and accoutrements that can help the experienced shopper?

As a community, what is our responsibility to encourage or discourage those who are really not likely to make a go of shopping?
-Encourage. The rest is up to them.

When someone comes on the board in such financial straits that they need to be paid/reimbursed in 2 weeks to pay their basic bills, is this a concern of ours?
-This is a concern of ours, for a number of reasons. We should offer advice and help them find other avenues for income/expense reduction.

When someone comes on the board who is barely able to express themselves in the language they will need to write reports in, is this a concern of ours?
-Yes. Unclear posts lead to confusion and misunderstandings.

Do we encourage a shopper we feel will likely have little or no success to purchase the materials, equipment and accoutrements that can help the experienced shopper?
-We'd have to know a lot more about them, and their goals and reasons for mystery shopping, in order to determine whether or not they will be successful in mystery shopping. "Success" in mystery shopping is relevant and personal to each of us... My definition might be different than yours, or the next person's. I would not encourage anyone to buy something which may not be of use to them, but luckily, most of the equipment for mystery shopping is basic, and things which we already own. When they reach their comfort level and are ready for more, they will take that step on their own.

I see you are as conflicted as I am about this when you indicate 'Encourage and the rest is up to them.' but then also recognize that at least some of the folks who land on our doorstep should be encouraged to do something else instead.

I certainly would not begin to define 'success' for any other mystery shopper beyond their ability to perform and report successfully the shops they take. Yet my email on a daily basis has ongoing correspondence with folks who over the years have tried and failed at shopping but we have kept in touch. Of the cadre of perhaps two dozen that I came back into the business with a decade ago, there are two have continued shopping and one who recently returned to shopping. The most frequent reasons folks have dropped out are that the pay is low, the hours irregular and usually a 'last straw' shop.

I just would not want to discourage someone who might surprise even themselves and make a go of it.. they may just need the bit of encouragement to get them rolling.

I figure if they quit, then all I've wasted is my time, but they've gained knowledge. They then know it's out there, know the basics and how it works, and can return to it if needed.

For example, I've couponed for years, but when that Extreme Couponing show came out, people came out of the woodwork asking me to show them how. On average, I spent about two weeks, sometimes as much as two months, going back and forth via email and phone calls at length, teaching them everything there was to know about it. Out of the 10-15 people I've taken that level of time to teach, only one has stuck with it. But the others, at least they know it's out there, how to do it, and can return to it later if needed.

Knowledge is the most important currency we have to enrich others' lives, and the best part is that it can be had/given for free. I don't consider any of it wasted time.

Honestly, I would encourage everyone to do something other than mystery shopping. I feel like, even if it is a big piece of someone's financial pie, it shouldn't be the whole pie. That's just my personal financial outlook, though, and I know others view it differently.

BBird0701 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Knowledge is the most important currency we have
> to enrich others' lives, and the best part is that
> it can be had/given for free. I don't consider any
> of it wasted time.
>
> Honestly, I would encourage everyone to do
> something other than mystery shopping. I feel
> like, even if it is a big piece of someone's
> financial pie, it shouldn't be the whole pie.
> That's just my personal financial outlook, though,
> and I know others view it differently.

We are in complete agreement that shopping should not be a sole source of income. Of course we all come from different situations and I know a few folks for whom it is a sole source and provides sometimes scary insecurity.

We also agree that knowledge is the most important currency we have, but I would modify that that is either for our own lives or for sharing with others. And of course an advantage of starting the New Mystery Shopper section years ago was to attempt to share information in a person-neutral environment where it could be read and a potential shopper could see what was involved as well as make their own decision as to whether or not this was something they could do.

Mystery shopping was my sole income for just over four years, and there was not a week that went by that I didn't go to bed crying from the sheer stress and worry of it, at least once a week. I wouldn't wish that on anyone, and would definitely encourage people to diversify their income streams.

One thing which I would encourage people to do would be to put a portion of their mystery shopping income aside as savings, to be put towards something else income-generating. It provides a great measure of security for me, financially, mentally, and emotionally, knowing that I can lose any one piece of my financial pie and still be okay.

I've noticed that the New Mystery Shopper section is more lenient and forgiving in the ways things are explained.

Yes, it was my sole income for a few years, though I did have a savings cushion I could fall back on, which helped. And I thought long and hard before getting even a cell phone because of the added expense it would entail. I have never seen a viable reason for me personally to upgrade to a 'smart phone' after all the cell shops I have done.

New Mystery Shopper section was written quite a while back and at that time the majority of members of the forum were brand spankin' new. It probably needs an update and an overhaul. But it still needs to be kept very, very basic.

I jumped in here somewhere in the middle with a rather lengthy post. It's gone now, so I'm guessing I closed my browser too quickly. It's just as well, I think I rambled.

I think the questions raised in the original post are quite valid and I don't see any easy answers.

To encourage or discourage - that's a tough one. There are many reasons one may succeed or fail in this business, and for those reasons I don't think we're in much of a position to discourage anyone. However, we have all seen posts here with grammar so atrocious that we have to wonder if they wrote a report that way, would it even be salvageable. It seems just cruel to encourage someone to spend money to take up this business, as Flash said, when we could help them avoid a loss. Perhaps in these cases the best thing would be to neither encourage nor discourage but just support? Is that too weak of a stance? I mean, if they specifically ask for our opinion, that's one thing but people have to be ready to receive it. If they're not ready to hear the truth, then we're just beating them up in their eyes. Perception is everything, is it not?

Flash, I agree that maybe the New Members section needs some updating. When I looked at it again recently, it seemed a little overwhelming to me. What about this: you know how when you get a new T.V. or computer or something you just want to plug it in and get started? We have the huge user manual with all the facts and FAQs, but what do we go for? The Quick-Start Guide of course. It usually only has 5-7 steps max. That gets the user up and running and then when they have trouble they can check out specific areas in the big manual. What do you think of someone designing a Quick Start Guide for new shoppers? It would start with "Here is what you need to do first...." What 5-7 things would you put in it?

I understand LJ. I was away from the forum for a while and when I returned I could not edit any of my sticky posts over there, but that has now been resolved. It also seems to have gone mumbo jumbo on me so probably needs an overhaul from stem to stern if/when I have time to do it. There was a 'Nuts and Bolts' post that seems to have disappeared or maybe been renamed. That was sort of the quick and dirty basics of how it works or your 'Quick Start Guide'. And yes it was very wordy but still should take a 6th grade reading level under 5 minutes to read and understand.

We all know that mystery shopping is not difficult if you follow directions and can write coherently. But there are so many other issues involved in it as well--the need for cash to do it in the first place, the need for a reasonable internet connection, the need for transportation and the ability to wait weeks or months to be paid/reimbursed. From time to time we hear about folks who have persevered with public transportation or by using public library computers, but overall encouraging folks to try to shop extensively with those parameters is unrealistic. I know of folks who have successfully shopped with a small child or children in tow, but for the most part that is limiting both in the companies that permit it as well as the nature of the child.

I certainly do not want to give folks unrealistic expectations of this line of work.

As a newbie member and shopper myself I wouldn't discourage members from mystery shopping just for a few minor grammer errors in their posts. I myself have completed about 50 shops in the past 2 months and have received 10/10 on all but two that I received 9/10 on (one from Intellishop so I'm happy with that). In my report I write, read, re-read, edit, rest, re-edit and finally submit. It is a rather mentally exhausting process and the least enjoyable part of shopping for me. When I post here I take a more laid-back approach and while a typographical error or poorly worded statement may slip though, I feel this is a more relaxed conversational atmosphere. I read and write posts for relaxation and learning, and if I was as neurotic with editing all my posts as I am with my reports I would be on meds by the end of the year. I think if you can truly understand exactly what the poster is saying we should not crucify them. Being attacked for a spelling issue in an otherwise reasonable inquery may be a real turnoff to an otherwise helpful member of the group. Just my 2 cents.

And the 2 cents is valuable towards the total.

I think of greater concern is would be shoppers with early posts that either because of lack of typing ability or control of written English need to be read and re-read several times to try to even understand what they are asking. I'm not talking about a few minor grammar or spelling issues as indeed this is a more relaxed environment than a formal report. You are obviously capable of producing acceptable reports and the rhetorical question is whether we should encourage those who seem to have few, if any, writing skills to attempt shopping. With few exceptions, shops require written reports.

I think the people with no grasp of the English language will quickly move on from mystery shopping simply because their reports will be rejected and they will not be paid. If they come here first, then it would be beneficial to explain that having very solid writing skills is a requirement, however if they have done a few shops which were all rejected and post only to vent and bash the editor I feel they are just looking for someone to agree with them or argue with them and the best course of action is simply not to reply. If a person is convinced they are writing good reports and getting several 5 or 6 ratings hasn't convinced them otherwise, I don't know that anyone here will.

I absolutely agree. And of course inevitably the explanation that strong writing skills are needed is seen as criticism of the person, evidently, while it is rather a concern about their prognosis for success.

Yes, yes and yes. We all have seen those posts where we just know that person will not be able to have a shop accepted. The question is do we still encourage that person? Discourage them? I think that either of those things could be the wrong thing. To encourage someone to spend money and time on a venture that we can clearly see will crash and burn isn't something I want to be responsible for. However, to discourage them... well how would you do that politely without offending?

That's where I think the answer lies in the Quick Start Guide. If we can just get them to read some very short factual statements about the business, it may weed a lot of people out from the beginning. Some will know that they don't possess the writing skills, so may be glad to find out early how long it takes to get paid and they have to spend money up front, and others will see that it's not like a full time, or even part time job where you have steady work just given to you as an employee. Others will decide it is perfectly suitable for them and continue on reading the specific threads that are of interest to them.

One problem is the snappish answers new people receive. I understand why it happens, but I'm not condoning it. If you're making dinner and your 5 kids ask you every 10 minutes when is dinner going to be ready and you've answered them 20 times, you're going to get cranky. Then when husband walks in from work and asks when dinner is going to ready you snap "six o'clock and don't ask again!" The poor guy gets the brunt of it and I think that's kind of what happens to a new person who asks who shops whom and other frequently asked questions. They haven't read it already because there is so much info in the newbie section it can get overwhelming and they're thinking "I just have this one little question..."

Maybe we need a volunteer welcome wagon. Rotate members in and out before getting burned out and about to snap.

I love, love, love your "volunteer welcome wagon" idea, LJ! That way, different people would rotate in and rotate out, without the onus falling on a few members' shoulders. I mean, if the mods are a volunteer corps, why not a volunteer "welcome wagon"? It's truly in the spirit of 'paying it forward'!

(heart)

I think a welcome wagon is a good idea. We currently have something similar, but what would really help it is someone who would be willing to take more charge. Please let me know if you're interested. You'll get a few more abilities on the forum software.

I volunteer to support, just don't have the time to commit to leading. Great ideas, everyone.

I would be willing to help out with the welcome wagon, but don't think I could take a lead role. I think this is similar to what I was thinking with my comment on the other thread in regard to mentoring new members. I definitely am not thinking any long term obligation but more of a understanding of the culture of the forum and some understanding of the types of posts more likely to get positive or negative responses.

What about a private sub-forum? Then people can post what they may fear to be a stupid question or an "Oops, I screwed up..Here's what happened, where do I go from here" question, and only a few people can respond. That may help people from getting chased off or lambasted with posts detailing what they should have done instead, or "What I would have done was...." posts.

I'll be glad to help out any way I can.

Expanding BBirds idea just a little bit. How about an area for shoppers only with not MCS. (Of course I realize someone will have to stand at the door and check ID to make sure they don't bring in their fake ones)

This is very interesting because I have a lot of conflicting thoughts.

One is pure greed; I have no interest in helping other shoppers that have even the slightest possibility of taking the gravy jobs on which I thrive. If a new shopper who lives in my area comes on the board, gets loads of tips and MSC names and takes jobs that I might have taken, I get "shafted".

Another is "tough love"; I got into this business on my own. No one helped me. Having said that, I did read a lot in these forums, which did help me. "Giving it (tips and secrets) away" quickly to make it easy on new people rubs me the wrong way in some respects. I want newbies to pay the price and do the leg work just like I did.

Another is compassion; I have strong empathy for people struggling and want to help. This conflicts with my top two thoughts.

It's not the introduction and the welcome that generate the problem. Members introducing themselves typically get a welcome from Mr. Computer (thank you) or Austin Mom (thank you) and from a few others who are attentive. Although it's a good idea to have someone dedicated to extending a warm welcome to a new member, that's not going to be a fix. What we have going wrong is happening after the welcome.

We all know we get absolute raging nut jobs on here and there's no reason we should want to keep them. They're trolling the net looking for the fight of the day and the sooner they're gone the better. I'm not talking about them.

We lose both newer and older members when we're irritable and critical with them and assume a parent to child attitude. Clearly the forum will not sustain itself without retention of newer members. If we have to lose somebody, it would make more sense to lose the older members and keep the newer ones. If we have to make a choice, that is, which I hope we don't.

BBird, as you probably know, many members won't post on the forum because they think their question is stupid, or they anticipate backlash. I think most of us get PMs from such members.

Barbage, nice thought. How about an area(s) where MSCs have read only rights, and do not have posting privileges? If something gets posted about their company that they feel compelled to reply to, it could be taken private via PM. Of course, if that communication gets out of hand, from either member or MSC, it should be reported to admin.

The issue that I see with the "safe haven" subforum, where only a few posters can answer, is that anyone would be able to enter and, I assume, read the posts of the naive and/or confused newbies and then depart to comment in open forum. It would be like handing out candy to the trolls that we often find making more trouble than a few snarky remarks. I am not dismissing the impact of snarky remarks when I say that, BTW.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2014 04:33AM by Shop2LiveinFL.

I'm not in favor of a closed sub forum where only certain members can post. I'm also not in favor of excluding MSCs and schedulers from posting if members are allowed to post about the MSCs and schedulers. That said, I'm not going to concern myself about those issues because this is not my forum and I don't get to vote.

MSCs, schedulers, and shoppers are allowed to post. Most of the MSCs and shoppers voluntarily identify themselves. I believe if shoppers expect MSCs and schedulers to identify themselves, we should be willing to identify ourselves and assume responsibility for our posts. If some of us can be anonymous all of us should enjoy that privilege. Again, this forum is not a democracy and I don't get to vote.

I don't want to exclude anyone in the business based on which part of the business they're in. I sincerely hope all sections except the moderators area will stay open to everyone.

I see a fundamental difference between shoppers remaining anonymous on the forum and permitting MSC staff and their IC editors and/or schedulers to remain anonymous. When a shopper posts, we can assume that they are "authorized" (albeit, by themselves) to "represent" the opinions that they put forward. Posts by people who work for MSCs need to identify the position of the poster with the MSC (or the independent scheduling company) so that readers can make realistic assumtions about the degree to which the post might represent a policy of the MSC vs a personal opinion or anything else. In a few cases, we have actually been able to spot a "rogue" MSC employee who, probably through an excess of enthusiasm, has posted that they were willing to do things that many shoppers knew would have represented a sea change in the MSC's policies. Because the shoppers raised the question with the MSC, "their" poster was provided with the information that she needed to conform to company policy, and shoppers were greatly relieved to find that policies had not changed.

I do not propose that MSC reps should have to post full "name, rank and serial number" but would like to see Jacob make an addition to the few posting guidelines stating that posters who work (in any capacity beyond shopping) for an MSC or independent scheduling firm, either as staff or as ICs, should add a permanent sig line with the name of the MSC the poster's first name, and their position.

In my view, in order to fulfil Jacob's stated vision of the forum as a safe place for shoppers, we need to know when the speaker is a shopper and when the speaker is representing, or purporting to represent our clients, the MSCs and scheduling agencies. This is not class warfare; it seems to me to just be good business practice.

You may be right about Jacob's vision of the forum. I'm not privy to his thoughts so I can't say what he has in mind. I don't recall, however, ever seeing anything from him stating the MSCs and their employees/schedulers have to identify themselves. This seems to be coming from forum members. I do believe that Jacob has indicated he wants the forum to be self directed by the members. I'm doing my part to self direct by stating what I think is right and fair.

I hadn't considered the forum as being a safe place for shoppers. I don't feel I'm in danger when I'm interacting with others in the business. If I did, I'd make a move toward personal safety and do something else.

I don't mind any MSC or scheduler knowing what I have to say because if I post it I've already told them what I think and they won't find any surprises here from me. I want to be up front with everybody and that includes posting what is true at the moment considering the issue at hand without letting my posts be affected by past interactions. I want to learn from the past but I want to live in the present and the future. If I have an issue and I settle it, it's over, whether I like the settlement or not.

It is my opinion that cutting the MSCs out of the forum or controlling what they can or cannot post can have no positive outcome. It is my opinion that having sub-forums not open to all members would be detrimental to the forum as a whole. Small groups wanting to communicate can use the PM feature or their personal emails. I have zero interest in being a member of a forum which targets others for exclusion.

Please don't suggest I leave because I support all of us. You'll irritate me and I won't go. Only Jacob can throw me off.

Somewhere, within the last few days, Jacob has posted some of his thoughts concerning his vision for the forum. I am in a rush right now, but it should be easy to sind, as he seldome posts.

I am most certainly suggesting that we control what MSC reps may or may not post, with the exception of posting shopper's identities.

Also, any MSC with the slightest bit of imagination knows exactly who I am, lol.