I'm beginning to like this more and more after reading several comments lately (by the same couple of people) that seem to have been posted only to shock, offend or call names. Perhaps if they could see their posts slowly slipping away they'd realize their behavior is not appreciated?

Well, normal people would anyway.

JacobJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's the solution I've thought about. It's not
> exactly a disagree button. But, it's a similar
> button. If enough people press the button, the
> post would become less visible. If even more
> people press the button, it might be hidden and
> referred to the moderators, and if even more
> people press the button, the post would be removed
> altogether. In addition, I could set it up so
> that this button would not be available to
> everyone, maybe just members that have been around
> a certain amount of time.
>
> If I did this, I wouldn't be able to implement it
> right away. But I think it might help filter out
> the more offensive/combative posts.

The operative word may be "normal." If someone's primary intent is to shock, offend or call names, my guess is disappearing posts would only encourage them to post that much more. Case in point, all the members who have been deactivated for bad behavior only to register under a new screen name or even several names before proceeding to post comments more shocking and offensive than those that got them banned in the first place. Anyone remember the guy who went so far as taking on the screen name F--theForum?

:sigh: You may be right, Lisa. I just don't like to think that people are that rotten. But, I still kinda like his idea. It's worth a try anyway. If it doesn't work out it doesn't have to be permanent.

I wouldn't mind a bit if it proved me wrong. Some of the real morons have left me a bit cynical. But hey, no way to know unless we try.

Actually, I think there is a bit of truth in both ways of looking at it. Some people may think they are voicing the opinions they share with those who do not have the courage to say things bluntly. After watching their posts slowly disappear, they may look inwards and adjust their attitudes to fit in with our little society. That's what well-adjusted people do when they make buttheads of themselves. We've all done it.

Others could be encouraged as you say, Lisa.

It would be interesting to see how many of each we have.

So how is that fade away button project coming along?

I don't like this idea at all, simply because it would be an invitation for an argument. Plus, the dog piling that would follow would run off newbie shoppers. I don't think that there is any social media as it is that has this option (i.e, Facebook).

We already successfully run off newbie shoppers without the benefit of a disagree button, which was the item requested in the original post. I haven't gone back through the thread but I believe I remember that Jacob thought something that faded away the unappreciated post would be better. I'm agreeable with the fade away button or any other device that lets us indicate disagreement with baseless, mean, vindictive and hateful posts. The button would encourage overall better behavior on the forum.

True MDavisnowell, but why make it even easier to run off newbie shoppers?

I'm thinking that the majority of the posts I'd disagree with are written by long standing forum members. It never occurred to me a disagree button would be used mainly for new members. Usually new members are willing to learn whereas most of us older members already know everything.

The more I think about the "disagree" button or the "fade" feature, the more doubts I have. IMHO, I feel there are currently plenty of available options if I disagree with a post; I can state my disagreement by making a post; I can ignore the post and move on; I can toggle the poster; or, if it's highly objectionable, I can "report" it.

I'm wondering why we would want such a negative feature to become a permanent fixture of our forum. In fact, I fear it might discourage some members from posting their opinion; it might be abused; and it might not have any effect on trolls, whatsoever. Try as I might, I cannot think of anything positive about the addition of this feature.

Just my opinion.........

(heart)

Hmmm. I'm in the opposite court from Stilllearning on this one. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea. I feel very few new members post mean-spirited comments, but there are a few veteran members who do. Those posts that go back and forth just provoking each other into arguments and beating that poor horse to slowly to death would eventually just fade away. Not only would new members not have to see those nasty comments, but the offending posters would get a clear message that their posts are not appreciated by the majority.

Would the faded posts then be viewable if someone chose to see it? Would there be a place holder marked "hidden post" and a statement like, "Most readers did not find this post helpful. Click here to view it anyway?"

Why not just try it for a little while? If it gets abuse (and I don't think it will) the feature can be removed.

LJ, outstanding suggestions. Thank you.

I feel it would be very passive aggressive and conducive to an actual professional and pleasant discussion on here.

Say this is implemented, if half the forum decides they disagree with a comment because of bias, dislike over a particular user or a grudge from the past, that person's post "fades" away? I think that's wrong and I know I'm not the only who could see that happening. It's almost like silencing someone.

If you don't like a particular post, participate by having your say. If it's offensive, report it or ignore it. If you feel something is hateful or mean spirited, it should be reported and the appropriate parties should handle it accordingly. This just seems like a method to add to the clique mentality that moves through here from time to time.

I can see it now... that thread earlier this week with three pages of fighting over the n word and misquoting. How nice would that have looked with three pages of faded posts? I think it would have looked odd.

I see your point, Dixie, and I don't think there is anything that can be done that doesn't have some drawbacks. In this case, I believe the good will outweigh the bad. If I'm wrong (what? me wrong? Never!!), it can always be discontinued and we try something else.

We shouldn't be afraid to try new things, but we have to be willing to give them up if they don't work out as hoped.

I want a disagree button so I can disagree. I would use it the same as the like button when I like a post. The fade away button was Jacob's idea and I'm sure he has his reasons. If I want someone to go away, I toggle them and they go away. Often I disagree with a post and I want to indicate my disagreement. I feel if I don't disagree then I'm agreeing by letting the post slide. I'm not interested in addressing every disagreement with a long responding post but I would like the option to simply disagree. I'm not trying to silence anyone or "fade" them, simply register a disagreement.

As far as deleting extremely offensive posts, I'm in favor of that but I want it to come from the moderators and not from a fadeaway button pushed by forum members. Posts should be deleted according to strict and consistent criteria set by forum management.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2015 02:44AM by MDavisnowell.

You make some good points too, Mary. I'd love to see some more opinions on this.

Why not put some words together, and disagree? State our reasons, start a conversation. Let's hash it out.

Ok Mert. Here are some words.

This thread brings to mind a recent conversation on TV about decisions of news organizations not to reprint the cover cartoon of the Charlie Hebbo issue immediately after the killings at their office. For background, that cartoon was an image of the Prophet Mohammed. As such, many Muslims consider it offensive because any image of the Prophet Mohammed is blasphemy. The conversation was about the nature of free speech and turned to our self-imposed limits on free speech. One commentator said something like, "We do not use curse words on the Newshour." I took it that the use of such strong, potentially offensive words is an impediment to free speech. Think about it. Some people will decline to further participate because of the interjection of offensive words. Others will respond with an equal or greater level of offensiveness. The result is a less conversation regarding the original topic. And we all lose.

I realize there are groups or environments where the use of obscenities is expected, or even required. This forum is not one of those places. Also, it is clear that a 'disagree' button certainly does not rise to the level of offensiveness an obscenity can. However, in my opinion it does create a similar negativity by suggesting there is something wrong about the post or idea. Also, it is too easily delivered. For those reasons I disagree with having a 'disagree' button.

I think we just have to disagree the hard way. Like Mert suggests, that way is to put some words together in a manner that starts a conversation.

I feel certain the disagree button is not going to happen. I have serious doubts the fade away button will happen. I am hopeful regarding progress on new guidelines for deleting unacceptable posts.

Well said, vlade! Rather than insert an emoticon, or simply click a button as a reply, if we have the time and if it's worthwhile, we agree/disagree, following an exchange of ideas.

Mary, as you've probably read, an attempt to define unacceptable posts, and overhaul moderation is underway.

I'll have to jump in here again with my experience running a forum for over five years. I am a techie and have tried almost every commercial plugin on the most complex message board system out there. (vBulletin)

Here are things I have implemented and removed:

1. A "Shoutbox" Where on the homepage, you have a chat window where everyone can basically "tweet".

FAIL. Reason - People will post things there that they would not post in the forum. It is like an open mic. and people are always saying things off the cuff that they don't think long enough to hit the post button.

2. Add ANY sort of vote on a post or thread type like/dislike system.

FAIL. Reason - People are going to form clicks and gang up on others. It's human nature. Some people will rub others the wrong way and it's a popularity contest as to who is most liked.

3. Post count gadget to show the most posters, most posts that are liked, etc.

FAIL. Reason - Same as #2, but even worse as people will try to post crap and game the system to get into the top 10 or whatever you decide to show.

4. Advanced editor with buttons above the post to change font, color , size and insert photos and more without needing to use BBCODE by hand. (I posted my thread with the BBCODE and bump it, for the long time members to accentuate their posts)

FAIL. Reason. The people that are going to decide to bold, underline and huge font everything are annoying and we don't want to encourage any of that here.

If you have to type the brackets and use BBCODE by hand, the idiots won't use it. And the people that are smart enough to use it will use it with some discretion.

5. Avatars. I have them. (It is a PITA)

FAIL. It adds flair, but for this type of board, it is too distracting and requires lots of moderation.

6. Post Signature line.

Working - It is possible to light up a Christmas tree of animated GIF's, and stupid nonsense.

In my BBCODE test post, I have done all I can do to discourage such behavior and it has worked up till now.

If people decide to post a one liner, or choose an animated .gif that is the size I use or smaller, I see no problem or backlash from the board. Naturally, someone will take it too far and need to be reprimanded.

I could go on till point #20 with failed things to add to the forum, but less is more.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2015 11:12AM by scanman1.

I think we are a little different from a social forum because it is work that brought us together -- very time-consuming work -- and anything that would cause us to waste time (such as a scrolling shout out box where people might get to gabbing about nonsense) is going to have the effect of taking time away from hunting for jobs, planning routes, or make us delay putting in our reports.

While amusement, humor, and kidding around is fine, I wouldn't want this to turn into anything too fun and distracting. This is an advice column for mystery shoppers. The general chat forum has some amusements, jokes threads, games if we need a break, but I wouldn't want to see distractions on the "working" pages where people come to get and give advice.

So i concur with all of scanman's "fails" because i have seen this in other groups and it happens just like he says it did in his forum.

That's a great post, scanman, and I concur with your reasons.

Did you have any implementations that were successes that would work here?

@kimmiemae wrote:

That's a great post, scanman, and I concur with your reasons.

Did you have any implementations that were successes that would work here?

All the desirable add-ons that are available for this message forum platform are now implemented. The nesting multiple quote box for example. And the most important one of all. The "Report Post" box. This way the moderators don't have to read every single post. If someone gets out of control, or a new member signs up and is a spammer the moderator will have a report with a link directly to the post to address it.

I don't have moderators as I found that even that can become a power trip and more trouble than it's worth at times. People with high post counts will ask to become a moderator who are not non-biased and then offended when turned down. Then I'd ask someone who seems very level headed to be a moderator and they will take it too seriously and read every post and burn out and resign. It can be a thankless job. My board runs itself and when I do need to moderate, I will have several members report a post and I can delete the user or the posts and give a last warning.

That's a good point about the moderators.

Why, oh why do I always seem to be the odd man out? I don't do it on purpose to be a pain. I guess I'm just "different". I agree with some, not all of Scanman's points. I loved the numbered list, so I'll reply by number.

1. A "Shoutbox" Where on the homepage, you have a chat window where everyone can basically "tweet".

AGREE. Reason - I'm admin on another site that has a Shoutbox and that dumb thing is more trouble than it's worth. Besides, this is a forum anyway. We don't need another place to post comments. Deleting nasty comments in Shoutbox and banning users was getting tiring

2. Add ANY sort of vote on a post or thread type like/dislike system.

DISAGREE. Reason - I think having a like/vote/dislike// button helps to keep the threads shorter. I'd personally rather see a list of names or just a count of people who agreed rather than a bunch of posts reading, "I was going to say that" or "I agree"

3. Post count gadget to show the most posters, most posts that are liked, etc.

DISAGREE. Reason - I don't have time to read every single thread. I like to see what's trending and hot topics.

4. Advanced editor with buttons above the post to change font, color , size and insert photos and more without needing to use BBCODE by hand. (I posted my thread with the BBCODE and bump it, for the long time members to accentuate their posts)

AGREE. Reason. Would have disagreed until I read your reasoning. You convinced me.

5. Avatars. I have them. (It is a PITA)

DISAGREE. I love them. It makes it easy to quickly see who is saying what with a simple glimpse of a familiar avatar. It also gives a little insight into the poster and makes it a more personal experience. Any reminder that we are dealing with real people with real feelings and emotions is a good thing.

6. Post Signature line.
.
AGREE: They should add to and not detract from the threads. Limiting photo sizes would be a must.

@LJ wrote:

Why, oh why do I always seem to be the odd man out? I don't do it on purpose to be a pain. I guess I'm just "different". I agree with some, not all of Scanman's points. I loved the numbered list, so I'll reply by number.


3. Post count gadget to show the most posters, most posts that are liked, etc.

DISAGREE. Reason - I don't have time to read every single thread. I like to see what's trending and hot topics.

I don't have time to read every thread either. But what's trending will be at the top of the lists with a lot of replies. Hot topics will have a lot of replies and probably still be on the first page.

The other thing I suggested that we don't seem to be getting is the date a thread was started, which would be the only other thing needed to distinguish "trending and hot" from "dragged up from the archives."

Not necessarily, D. Remember, not everyone is able to visit the forum every day. If I'm out for a while, I come back to a whole gaggle of red "new" notifications. There are times when I would have otherwise missed a very informative post because it was in a thread that I skipped over because it didn't seem to apply to me. However, due to the amount of likes and my curiosity, I was able to read and appreciate it as well. Also, a "hot topic" may end up buried on the second page by the time I get back here.

LOL.. Sorry. I'm on the internet so constantly it's hard for me to picture someone being gone for days.