Proposed changes to MSF

Couldn't we all stop dwelling on the past and focus on the future? It seems much more productive that way.

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Because without addressing the past the future won't change.

There are reasons that a body stays in motion
At the moment only demons come to mind
Yes it is but tiresome is less annoying yo me than rudeness.

There are reasons that a body stays in motion
At the moment only demons come to mind
But things seemed to be going so well the past few days. I liked the playful sarcasm and it seemed like you two were getting along much better. That's why I think it would be great if you both could just forget about the past and move forward.
@bgriffin wrote:

I will say, I absolutely invite you to PM me "what really happened" as I'm quite intrigued about what your brain has cooked up. I'm almost certain I will find it ridiculously amusing.
Nice positive contribution to the forum. Why should I waste my time trying to come to any sort of resolution with you since you publicly stated your preconceived notions.
@bgriffin wrote:

Yes it is but tiresome is less annoying yo me than rudeness.
Didn't Jacob add a little something to the forum called the toggle button/link? Isn't the purpose of the toggle feature is to block another forum member's posts so you don't even have to see/read them at all? Have't I encouraged the more sensitive forum members to PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE toggle me? It will not hurt my feelings at all. It will probably make the forum a rainbows and unicorns paradise for the more sensitive members.

bgrifin, why haven't you toggled me if the "only" issue you have with me is perceived rudeness? I bet your blood pressure would thank you. Give it a try. Put a smile on your face.
@JASFLALMT wrote:

But things seemed to be going so well the past few days. I liked the playful sarcasm and it seemed like you two were getting along much better. That's why I think it would be great if you both could just forget about the past and move forward.
Sorry JAS, I tried. bgriffin's newfound "niceness" did not even last 12 hours. Isn't there a scientific name for that?
@Sybil2 wrote:

@JASFLALMT wrote:

But things seemed to be going so well the past few days. I liked the playful sarcasm and it seemed like you two were getting along much better. That's why I think it would be great if you both could just forget about the past and move forward.
Sorry JAS, I tried. bgriffin's newfound "niceness" did not even last 12 hours. Isn't there a scientific name for that?

Yes, it's called growth.....

Live consciously....
Oh come on! Just my bad luck to read this thread after coming home from the hospital. I thought I was healthy enough after 5 blood transfusions. Wish this thread could be closed. It is not conducive to anyone's good health. Peace!
There certainly was a lot to digest, and a lot to ignore, in this thread.

The concept of "be nice" is difficult. Sure there are obvious things like not calling someone names. On the other hand, is a quick, concise answer "mean." I have seen it suggested an answer less than verbose is not very welcoming. For anyone else like me who tends to have a dry sense of humor, quick little asides can be misconstrued. What do we do about that, ban some forms of humor? And then there are posters who just can't handle someone disagreeing with them. While the best thing there is probably to ignore the snowflake, it is not always easy when they are giving out inaccurate or unethical advice. The bottom line, nice really is so subjective. It may be simpler to just have a short list of rules like don't call someone names.

I do disagree with the statement that suggesting a specific behavior is stupid is the same as saying the person is stupid. Most of the people who visit the forum are actually quite bright yet everyone of them is capable of making a stupid mistake, take my word for itwinking smiley

Equal rights for others does not mean fewer rights for you. It's not pie.
"I prefer someone who burns the flag and then wraps themselves up in the Constitution over someone who burns the Constitution and then wraps themselves up in the flag." -Molly Ivins
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of your time and it really annoys the pig.
That is not at all what I was referring to. What I was referring to was, to paraphrase a conversation:

Person A: I don't understand this direction.
Person B: If you are too stupid to understand that direction then perhaps you shouldn't be a mystery shopper
Person A: Don't call me stupid.
Person B: I didn't call you stupid.

Uh. Yes, you did. Just like if I said I'm not strong enough to lift this box and you say if you're not strong enough to lift that box then you're a wimp. Well you just called me a wimp. Doesn't mean it's not true. Doesn't change the fact that you did it. And really there's no reason for it.

There are reasons that a body stays in motion
At the moment only demons come to mind
@bgriffin, I suggest that you never sign up for a Boot Camp. Oh no! Now I will be accused of calling griffyboy a wimp. Oh no!
"C" actually begs a question. How can someone claiming to be so young be so familiar with pop culture from 18 to 32 years ago while claiming to be unfamiliar with pay phones? I find it to be disingenuouswinking smiley

Equal rights for others does not mean fewer rights for you. It's not pie.
"I prefer someone who burns the flag and then wraps themselves up in the Constitution over someone who burns the Constitution and then wraps themselves up in the flag." -Molly Ivins
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of your time and it really annoys the pig.
This has been an interesting thread. Great post Cali, I have felt the same way and had the same observations. I really like this forum even when threads get hijacked but when the negative gets out of control I feel for the newbies.
@CaliGirl925

Great post! Although you left out:

H. Insinuating that a poster who doesn't know how to do something or particularly good at something is either dumb, lazy, or isn't a good fit for mystery shopping.

I perhaps did not explain what I meant by poster accountably well. I could post an ICA violation every other post. The post would get moderated and i would have a little note on there saying not to do it. If that's all that's ever done what is to stop me from continuing to do it?

There are reasons that a body stays in motion
At the moment only demons come to mind
Seems to me, when this was happening to me i adked for help and, not only did i not get help, i was ganged up on by Sybil, Lisa and quite a few others. I copied that thread to remind me of how disgusting they can be.
I now understand why most MSC have min. word requirements in their narratives. Based on most of these post, people clearly enjoy writing long elaborate responses.
The hardest part to agree on seems to be “Be nice.” Ironically, those two words bring out the not-so-nice side of usually thoughtful and mild-mannered posters. For those who clamor to “Be nice,” please go back and reread this thread and note the damage those two words have done. They caused the contents of a PM to be publicly known, thereby re-harming the perceived injured party. There was a call for publicly shaming a specific poster frequently (?!?), followed by a whole cloth accusation of drug use. Then a litany of personal issues was aired. (Yes, I see the irony.) Several posters have ganged up on one person all in the name of being nice.

Personally, I’ve learned a lot from this forum. Being a member caused me to reconsider some of the MSing notions I came here with. I’ve learned from many of the posters on this specific thread, including the poster you’re bashing. If all members are homogeneous and artificially sweet, who benefits? “Be nice” needs to be balanced with “Be tolerant.”

I thought the phrase “Make a positive contribution” was just fine, but if change is needed, what about “Be professional” or “Offer constructive criticism and advice."
Your dislike button was being used for a certain group of people to delete posters or postings that they did not like while leaving the real offender unmoderated. It was childish. I'm glad it is gone.

I definitely would vote for "be nice." I am new to this forum and if I didn't really need this information or there was another source that I could get it I would not be on here. As a newbie, I have been stalked, talked about and basically treated really crappy. I don't need to spend my free time being insulted by a stranger. If you really have a problem with me then PM me, don't get rude and ruin a whole thread til it gets shut down...some other members may have been enjoying the topic. I apologize if I come across too harshly but MOST of the time I really mean nothing badly by HOW I say things. People that love me just hear WHAT I'm saying and usually ignore HOW I say it. But I am working on this. I realize that it can cause problems and I do not mean to offend people. Honestly, I would help out or support anyone that asked.

A moderator should be public knowledge. I have never been in a forum where you cannot contact or talk to the moderator. There is absolutely no accountability for actions taken. Our moderator definitely tolerates bad behavior from certain people but is quick to delete anyone that disagrees with them. Perhaps they are self-moderating and are actually that troublesome person? I usually do not even realize if I have been deleted unless someone tells me. But I do not just strike out for no reason. Someone would have to provoke me. I am not rude by nature and have been in the professional world a long time because I am really old. lol Back to the ignore how I say things because I have a sharp sense of humor and mean no harm by it.

None of this is meant to start a discussion just offering a point of view from someone just joining the group. I have met some truly wonderful and helpful people through this forum. It is a wonderful source of information and opinions. I learn something new everyday from the members!
@bgriffin wrote:

@CaliGirl925

Great post! Although you left out:

H. Insinuating that a poster who doesn't know how to do something or particularly good at something is either dumb, lazy, or isn't a good fit for mystery shopping.

I perhaps did not explain what I meant by poster accountably well. I could post an ICA violation every other post. The post would get moderated and i would have a little note on there saying not to do it. If that's all that's ever done what is to stop me from continuing to do it?

I could be wrong, but I get the sense from your posts that you don't particularly care if someone repeatedly violates their ICA and is moderated. What you care about is that you feel you've been repeatedly treated badly by one or a small group of posters. They have (in your opinion) either repeatedly broken the posting guidelines and have been moderated with no other consequences, or they've exhibited behavior that you feel should be a violation of the posting guidelines (hence your suggestion that "be nice" be added as a posting guideline). Additionally, it seems like you feel that some of your posts have been moderated for exhibiting the same behavior as other, un-moderated posts.

I've been away from the forum for a bit and I haven't seen the posts you're referring to. I'm not sure what the goal of your post is, and was trying to get back to that with my post that restated your original points.... Do you want the forum members to rise up and demand more moderator transparency and poster accountability? Or do you want Jacob to see this thread and take actions to remedy your concerns?

If it's the latter, he's seen this thread and has either acted or hasn't. If it's the former, you're going to need to name names and give specifics about the way you've been treated if you want other posters on this forum to take up your cause. I understand not wanting to launch into personal attacks, but if you feel you've been treated badly and that if people only knew about the treatment you've received they'd rise up and demand a change, then you've got to tell us specifically what you've experienced.

On a personal note, I'm sorry that you haven't felt welcome here. I've always considered you a knowledgeable and valuable member of the forum and I missed your voice when you weren't here.

Shopper in California's Bay Area
One thing I have observed with people off-line might be happening with us on-line. Sometimes, we cannot or do not or will not hear what is said to us. Here, as readers, we might check in with ourselves and find out if we are reading what is posted to us. Are we really making the effort to take in someone's message? Or, are we blowing them off without a fair reading? Do we ignore some posters more than others? Are we the ones that need these messages more than anyone else, but we are afraid to know this about ourselves?

*puts self in time out and admonishes self to read, really read, what other people are posting*

The human spirit needs places where nature has not been rearranged by the hand of man. ~ Unknown
_____
I’ve noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born. - Ronald Reagan
_____
Sorry to take so long to respond. I actually read this shortly after it was posted but was on vacation and didn't want to do this on my phone.....

@CaliGirl925 wrote:

I could be wrong, but I get the sense from your posts that you don't particularly care if someone repeatedly violates their ICA and is moderated.

Correct.

@CaliGirl925 wrote:

What you care about is that you feel you've been repeatedly treated badly by one or a small group of posters.

Not Correct.

@CaliGirl925 wrote:

They have (in your opinion) either repeatedly broken the posting guidelines and have been moderated with no other consequences, or they've exhibited behavior that you feel should be a violation of the posting guidelines (hence your suggestion that "be nice" be added as a posting guideline).

Closer to correct. I feel like there are some posters who have broken the posting guidelines by being rude or offensive to other posters. Sometimes me. Sometimes other posters. I would suggest they have been most offensive to new posters as well as some older posters who for some reason they have a beef with. I do not know what those particular problems are in some cases and don't really care.

@CaliGirl925 wrote:

Additionally, it seems like you feel that some of your posts have been moderated for exhibiting the same behavior as other, un-moderated posts.

Ding. Ding. Ding. We have a winner!
When I began giving as good as the posters I am referring to, my posts began to be edited or deleted while their posts, including ones directed back at me in response were not edited or deleted.

@CaliGirl925 wrote:

Do you want the forum members to rise up and demand more moderator transparency and poster accountability?

I wanted other members who have noticed or experience the same things to voice their concerns. I knew from PMs I had received that I was not the only person who felt that way. The problem is that I was the only person voicing the concern and the ones who felt the same way either had an attitude of "I don't want to rock the boat", "I'm glad you said it so I don't have to", or "I don't want to pile on because you're doing a great job on your own." The problem with that is that it gives the impression the problem is not as big as it is. When I returned, several posts on the subject of mine or posters who agree with me got a dozen or more likes, while the same 3 posters continued to be the only people who seemed to have an opposing opinion. Additionally several members have began posting that they experienced the same thing. Both long time and new posters. So yes, that was part of my goal with this thread.

@CaliGirl925 wrote:

Or do you want Jacob to see this thread and take actions to remedy your concerns?

Yes. And so far I feel like his response has been positive. He separately came to the conclusion that the thumb down did not have the effect he expected and removed it. As well I have noticed a significant decrease in the amount of posts that I would consider rude. I can only assume that perhaps something was said in private but have absolutely no clue if that was the case or not. Either way the goal seems to have been met for now so if that was it or posters have just made a conscious effort to be nicer I do know, and don't care. I also have noticed that other posters have become more vocal about posts that have shown a bit of attitude. I feel the overall affects, independent of if they were a result of this thread or some other reason, have been quite positive.

@CaliGirl925 wrote:

If it's the latter, he's seen this thread and has either acted or hasn't. If it's the former, you're going to need to name names and give specifics about the way you've been treated if you want other posters on this forum to take up your cause. I understand not wanting to launch into personal attacks, but if you feel you've been treated badly and that if people only knew about the treatment you've received they'd rise up and demand a change, then you've got to tell us specifically what you've experienced.

I don't feel any need to do that at this point. As I've said the overall tone on the forum has definitely improved lately, there is no need to rehash things.

@CaliGirl925 wrote:

On a personal note, I'm sorry that you haven't felt welcome here. I've always considered you a knowledgeable and valuable member of the forum and I missed your voice when you weren't here.

Why thank ya. You've always been one of my favorites as well.

There are reasons that a body stays in motion
At the moment only demons come to mind
@LisaSTL wrote:

"C" actually begs a question. How can someone claiming to be so young be so familiar with pop culture from 18 to 32 years ago while claiming to be unfamiliar with pay phones? I find it to be disingenuouswinking smiley
It was a joke. What happened to you? You used to have a sense of humor. In fact, you and griffy were Mr. & Mrs. Snark. Must have been a bad break-up between you two. No fun anymore.
@eyelove2shop wrote:

I now understand why most MSC have min. word requirements in their narratives. Based on most of these post, people clearly enjoy writing long elaborate responses.
It gives them the illusion of self-importance.
@spicy1 wrote:

Seems to me, when this was happening to me i adked for help and, not only did i not get help, i was ganged up on by Sybil, Lisa and quite a few others. I copied that thread to remind me of how disgusting they can be.
Give it up, spicy1. You do not play the victim role well at all. You have had complete rampages which were removed by mods or Jacob. You challenged me to meet you in a parking lot or something so you could "beat me to a pulp." That was really adding a positive contribution to the forum. Like I said, you do not play the victim very well.
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