Kunovega Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are misinformed.
>
> Gluten free does NOT require a product to be wheat
> free.
>
> You may not realise that gluten and wheat proteins
> are two different things and that gluten only
> exists in the gliadin and glutenin protein
> fractions of wheat.
>
> Wheat when processed can easily have the gluten
> removed while using the rest of the wheat kernal
> that does not contain any gluten whatsoever.
>
> It is very important to understand this
> distinction.
>
> Gluten can come a variety of sources such as
> wheat, rye, and barley; but it can also be removed
> from all of them to create entirely gluten free
> products that still contain wheat, rye or barley.
>
> It is very important to understand exactly what
> you are sensitive to. If you are allergic to wheat
> than avoid wheat. But if you are only allergic to
> gluten than you can consume wheat so long as the
> gluten has been removed during processing.
>
> You may not like all hickory farms products but
> they are extremely careful to track which of their
> product do and do not contain gluten and have
> joined the ranks of many large companies now
> supplying gluten free wheat products.


Kunovega, please provide your source for your assertion that many large companies now supply gluten free wheat products.

My understanding is that scientists believe they may be able to accomplish that eventually, but not as of now. I am a Celiac, and I spend a considerable amount of time reading, researching and attending presentations by the leading doctors in the field to stay up to date on relevant issues.

Here is a link to a November 26, 2012 article summarizing an article from the scientific journal PNAS: [articles.latimes.com].

If the link is removed or broken, the article can be found on the LA Times website under the title "Wheat for people allergic to gluten: Possible?"

It says, in part:
"Can scientists create gluten-free wheat plants to make bread with? Writing in the journal PNAS, a team of scientists concludes that it’s quite possible.

People with serious gluten allergies such as celiac disease now have only one tried-and-true option: swear off all foods containing wheat, barley and rye. Only that way can they avoid the damage that gluten exposure wreaks: abdominal pain, nutritional deficiencies and a progressive flattening of the tiny hairlike villi in the gut that are needed for the proper digestion of food."

It also states:
"But though they’ve found varieties that lack some of the important allergenic proteins, “None of the tested materials was completely nontoxic for celiac patients and thus could not be recommended for general consumption,” note authors of the current study."

If you have information that proves these scientists wrong, I would really (REALLY) love to know about it. What I wouldn't give for some real pizza.

Hickory Farms and many other companies, those mass produced Holiday gift baskets are mostly overpriced and filled with large boxes containing three crackers, bags of candies with 4 pieces, a cheese wedge which is only enough to spread on the three crackers, etc. I do admit the sausage seems to have some substance to it. And all this with a bunch of shredded padding, a nice basket and a fee of $35 and up. I kept telling the person who ordered these at my work to try Trader Joes or a place like Costco where they actually fill your basket with full size packages right off the shelf.
Now we get nothing for the holidays! Not even a free ecard! But I do not miss those gift baskets.
I suspect the wealthy uncle, if he is in any sort of business, gets many of these from all his business acquaintances. Seems to be the easy way out to just order a ton of baskets and send them to one and all. Then they get dispersed down the line to all the unfortunate friends and families of the receiver.

HF was much better when they had the year-round stores.

This thread is over a year old.

Actually, it WAS over a year old until Kunovega recycled it so he could tell us that gluten free does not require a product to be wheat-free.

I'm with Minnie on this - my understanding has been that gluten-free wheat is possible but not available at this time. I'd also like to more about Kunovega's source of information. There could be a new breakthrough none of us know about.

I could have used one of these shops earlier this month! We get a HF box for my husband's dad every year. He does enjoy the food, but it has more sentimental meaning at this point. His dad had given him one every Christmas for eons. His dad then passed away. My husband (not realizing that this tradition had been going on) bought a box for his dad and then found out about the tradition. It was a touching moment, and really at this point, even if the box cost $100.00, I think we need to continue the tradition. He saves the box and eats it with his wife on New Year's. I felt compelled to put something related to HF into the post since it got dug up from the past.

HF does not occupy stores anymore in my local malls. Instead, they set up kiosks during the holidays. I stopped by one and the employee said that the meats and cheeses did not require refridgeration...... Hmmm.

The beef stick summer sausage has always been able to be stored at room temperature. The cheese ball does requre refrigeration, as do most traditional cheeses. Cheese spreads [or cheese food] may or may not, it depends on the manufacturer. Mom used to work at HF back in the late 60's-early 70's when they had year round mall stores.

KathyC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HF does not occupy stores anymore in my local
> malls. Instead, they set up kiosks during the
> holidays. I stopped by one and the employee said
> that the meats and cheeses did not require
> refridgeration...... Hmmm.


I have often thought the same thing on the refrigeration part. It's not just HF that keeps cheeses out of the fridge though. We'd get gift baskets from other companies and most of them had a chunk of cheese stuck in there. I love cheese probably more than the average person. I refused to eat any cheese that came out of those gift baskets though. Not only is there a ick factor with eating cheese that hasn't seen refrigeration, but there is just something icky about eating warm mushy cheese. However, if it really was a public health hazard, there would have been a lawsuit by now, so apparently, cheese really doesn't need to be in the refrigerator. The other day we bought some chocolate milk, and the expiration date was like February. Seems crazy, but you an do amazing things with the right packaging and processing these days.

Don't know how I would feel about cheese that has never been refrigerated. However, I regularly take cheese out of the fridge several hours before serving. The flavor is much better at room temperature and runny cheeses like Brie have a better consistency.

Yes...cheese is meant to be eaten room temp. Think of the cheese and sausage as you would other shelf-stable perishables. For example, there are many brands of soy or rice milk that are sold in shelf-stable packaging but need to be refrigerated after opening. The cheese and sausage is the same way.

Other than the really soft cheese,refrigeration is not needed, but does prolong life. Cheese was developed as a way to preserve dairy products longer.

Here is a chart as to level of refrigeration needed.

[www.milkfacts.info]

I bought another brand of summer sausage at the store recently for the fridge case and was surprised to see a label which said no refrigeration necessary on it.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2013 12:33AM by Shelly.

Yes, cheese is better when it is out of the fridge, however in the gift baskets it is out of the fridge for an extended length of time...might be months. I would expect that the "out of the fridge" cheeses in gift baskets have lots of additional ingredients (read chemicals) we cannot pronounce to make them that way. In other countries cheeses are sold unrefrigerated however the turnover rate in the markets is a matter of hours or days, not months or even years. The milk products that are in boxes have their own flash processing to keep them safe for consumption. I have not heard that a similar process is available for cheese. I would certainly look at the label on the "cheese" to see what percentage of it is actually cheese before eating.

I think Kunovega may have come here by doing a search for either gluten-free or Hickory Farms, and I wouldn't be surprised if he/she registered simply to make a point. That said, their assertion is correct in theory, but as far as I know, it has yet to be executed. Here's a very recent article on the subject: [articles.latimes.com]

Above and beyond that, there is a school of thought that many of our health problems are caused by the wheat we eat today, which no longer resembles the "ancient" grain of yore. It's depicted well in the book "Wheat Belly", which IMHO, makes a little bit too much scary sense! I'm sure there are more, but I know of two companies that make products out of ancient wheat grains, Einkorn and Jovial. Interestingly, studies have shown good tolerance with einkorn wheat from people with MILD celiac disease.

Unrefrigerated cheese is okay if it's hard, not soft, as recently proven by our almost week-long blackout, when grilled cheese was made many, many times! I had a neighbor who never refrigerated his butter, as is often the case in Europe, but nope, not for me. I throw everything in the fridge, even stuff that supposedly doesn't need to be!

Lastly, as per the unfortunately revived subject matter, I haven't changed my tune. Just my opinion, but I still think Hickory Farms stinks!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2012 02:24AM by nicelytwicely.

I haven't eaten Hickory Farms in years... they *used* to be pretty good, as I recall.

I recently experienced Harry & David. Their pears & chocolate truffles, anyway. Now those, I *love*. I will return there! And to think my first experience with them was a mystery shop for which I was reimbursed $10 and paid $10! I'd do one of those every week if I could (I can't). : )

When I was a kid I would obsessively page through the Hickory Farms, Swiss Colony and Wisconsin Cheeseman catalogs that showed up at our house every November. I was under the impression that these compnies sold delicious, exotic delicacies. My mom would not allow any of that crap into our Kosher house.

When we were young and living overseas, getting a package from one of these catalog places used to be a treat. I don't know if it's because we missed home or if the food was better back then, but we enjoyed them. Nowadays, I find almost all of it just gross.

But like StormCloud, I think the pears from Harry & David are pretty awesome.

The American palate has changed dramatically over the last 20 or 30 years. There was a time when many had no clue what the "real" versions of many ethnic dishes were like unless they had the opportunity to visit other countries.

So true, Lisa. After returning to the States after living in Japan and Korea, we were surprised at what schlop so many pseudo-Asian restaurants were serving to willing and eager paying Americans.

Please everyone, if you receive a preserved food that you do not like, do not throw it away! Be it soda, canned orange juice, sausage, cheese or fruitcake, donate it to your local food bank. There is someone out there who is hungry and will think it is wonderful. Wasting fruit or dairy products or meat is entirely unnecessary and offensive to mother nature!

That was a nice reminder from RezTeach that although many of us are in situations in which we can turn our noses up at such food items, others would appreciate them. Consider it an Act Of Kindness to share not just food gifts like we've been discussing here on this thread, but some of those other things we've been given this season that we know we will never use such as certain clothing or bedding items.

Yes Rezteach, thank you for that reminder. And it would be a great treat for elderly citizens who live in lower income senior homes. Most of the food there is pretty plain and does not change much from day to day. Many of the residents have no family who visit or sends gifts. They would certainly remember HF fondly the way some of you have and it would be a real treat. The people who run the homes know which people have no diet restrictions.

That's a really nice idea, Sandy! Thanks for sharing that. I will remember that the next time I get one of these gifts.

The title of the post is Garbage or gourmet? Although the posts are dating back a year, the grand scheme of things are there are mixed emotions, when it come to HF.

If you grew up with HF, then you also know the Act of Kindess does not extend for senior citizens receiving such a distasteful group of cheese/crackers with sausage. I like the sausage, but it is so greasy. Imagine an elderly person eating this greasy sausage sandwich and have runny poops for the rest of the day. And the cheese, it does not melt on anything, so a toasted/grilled cheese sandwich is out of the question. Take the elderly person out to lunch, now that is a act of kindness.

Take the HF to a soup kitcken, maybe they can make soup out of it. Remember pot luck night? or smogasboard?? Those are dishes in which mystery meat are best served.

HF gifts sets are like those baskets of bath saops and lotions------>Everybody gets them but nobody uses them. They are best wrapped as regifts.

My act of kindness take some senior citizen living in a low income senior home------> to MDs or 5 Gees and a Bee.

minnie Wrote:
> Kunovega, please provide your source for your
> assertion that many large companies now supply
> gluten free wheat products.
>

Many articles can be found by google search the term "gluten free does NOT mean wheat free"

> My understanding is that scientists believe they
> may be able to accomplish that eventually, but not
> as of now. I am a Celiac, and I spend a
> considerable amount of time reading, researching
> and attending presentations by the leading doctors
> in the field to stay up to date on relevant
> issues.
>

If you are "Celiac" you are not technically allergic to these things. Celiac is an autoimmune disease with a trigger.

In celiac disease, gluten stimulates (because of genetic predisposition) the production of immunoglobulins that attack the villi lining the small intestine (that is, the body's own normal tissues). Celiac disease is often confused for an allergic illness because (like an allergy) it requires a foreign substance to trigger it.

Gluten removal from wheat will allow someone with a gluten allergy to eat something if they are not also allergic to wheat. If you are sensitive to both you would actually need to check that the product is both wheat free AND gluten free as the terms now technically mean two different things. My main point in posting was to point that out, you will start seeing more and more products on shelves that are gluten free but not wheat free and if you need to avoid both than you still need to read deeper into the ingredients lists than the splashy "gluten free" on the front of some products.

>
> It also states:
> "But though they’ve found varieties that lack
> some of the important allergenic proteins, “None
> of the tested materials was completely nontoxic
> for celiac patients and thus could not be
> recommended for general consumption,” note
> authors of the current study."
>
> If you have information that proves these
> scientists wrong, I would really (REALLY) love to
> know about it. What I wouldn't give for some real
> pizza.

I would not know if celiacs are both wheat and gluten sensitive, but since not everyone with a gluten allergy has celiacs there is an important distinction. I am gluten sensitive, but I am neither allergic to wheat nor am I celiac. To put it simply: there is a reason gluten free does not mean wheat free.

As for pizza options, I would suggest making your own using almond flour:
[www.nuts.com]

There are tons of other flour options as well. You can also mix in some xanthum gum if you are into experimenting. You can find an intro to the ideas of alternative flours here: [glutenfreegirl.com]

Gluten free baking recipes (including pizza)
[www.nuts.com]


LisaSTL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't know how I would feel about cheese that has
> never been refrigerated.

--------

Cheese has been around for hundreds of years, some forms of it date back thousands of years. It's only in the last 70 years that people have become obsessed with refrigerating it. Properly preserved and held at the correct PH levels and cheese can last for months, sometimes years without refrigeration.

You can find plenty of information about it with a little research, such as this:
[preparednesspro.com]


Shelly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I bought another brand of summer sausage at the
> store recently for the fridge case and was
> surprised to see a label which said no
> refrigeration necessary on it.

To put it simply: if a "summer sausage" EVER states that it requires refrigeration, then its NOT A SUMMER SAUSAGE.

The very definition of what a summer sausage "is" requires that it NOT need refrigeration.

This will be easier to understand if you know the basic history of where the term even comes from:

Before there was refrigeration the common tradition among farmers was to harvest animals for slaughter at the end of fall or beginning of winter. This is for many reasons; one being that the family of course wanted meat but also it would allow for less animals to require feeding during lean winter months when less food was available for the animals (lack of grazing land in winter)

As a farmer prepared for winter the food is split into two types "winter food storage" and "summer food storage". Winter food storage was any foods that required cold storage, things that could be kept in snow or ice such as "fresh or uncooked" meats went into winter food storage.

Foods that were preserved through either cooking, salting, smoking, brining, pickling or any other means of long term preservation went into "summer food storage". These foods might be picked at during the winter but were mainly meant to be used "the following spring and summer" after the cold packed food had been used up and there was no longer a cold storage option. "summer sausage" is thus a preserved sausage using natural nitrates to create a cooked and preserved sausage that was originally commonly found in "summer food storage". The traditional useage would be to wrap it in waxed cloth and carry it in your pocket as a field lunch or snack during the summer field work on the farm.

With the rise of refrigeration the usage of summer sausage was phased out and became far less common in the early 20th century. By 1951 the average american consumer no longer knew what summer sausage was as even most farms were no longer using it as a staple food source. It was then that Richard Ransom (founder of hickory farms) decided to reintroduce it to the public. He used his old family recipe and began taking it to fairs and giving out samples. He turned it into a specialty foods niche and the rest is history.

Anyway, whether you like hickory farms or not: summer sausage dates back centuries and its meaning has remained the same, it cannot require refrigeration or it is not a summer sausage as it could not be kept in summer food storage without refrigeration for the following summer.

---
Another myth to dispel while I'm here: summer sausage (even hickory farms) does not "last forever", most keep only for about a year. Typically the expectation is about 8 months, made in the fall and used by the end of the following summer.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2013 05:06AM by Kunovega.

Sorry, Kunovega, but you haven't dispelled any "myths" yet. You made an assertion that is contradicted by scientific research. When I asked for your source, instead of providing it, you responded with completely irrelevant info.

Your posts appear to be random bits of information cobbled together from various websites. I'm calling troll on this one.

As far as donating HF stuff to a soup kitchen, go for it! Several years ago I did some work with a food bank when I managed a bakery. I noticed that most of the food in their warehouse was either very basic items (huge bags of flour, crates of visually imperfect oranges) or gourmet stuff (small cans of anchovies, jars of eggplant and roasted red pepper spreads). One of the forklift drivers told me about baskets that had caviar in them along with crackers, cute knives, etc.