Certainly you could. On more than one occasion as a union worker, I said: "sorrry, unlesss the job parameters are changed, or the pay increased on that job, my team wont be doing it."

You want to see how independent you are, take a McDonalds shop from the infamous big mega MS company, then do it outside the time limits. After you are done send them an invoice and a change order, telling them that because the weather forced you to work outside the designated time, you will have to charge them an extra fee for that job.

Then let me know how that works out for you.


LisaSTL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Brak was right on with his comments and sorry, but
> JayTee you have not familiarized yourself with the
> IC definition as provided by the IRS. Whether you
> want to believe it or not, we do pick and choose
> what we do, when we do it and how much we get paid
> for it. Mystery shopping companies offer jobs and
> you make the decision to take them in the time
> frame and at the fee offered. If mystery shopping
> companies "fired" us for not taking the jobs, then
> I would not be registered with 150 or more.
>
> Case in point, a mystery shopping company wanted
> me to take a route of shops and needed them done
> the last week in October at a set fee. I said
> thanks, but if you want me to do them it needs to
> be extended to the following week and I need full
> expense reimbursement. The route was moved to
> following week and they picked up all my expenses.
> As an employee I would not be able to say to them,
> sorry but the World Series is this week and I'm
> not traveling, LOL!

Nope. But I do, and will, continue to push the envelope, just to watch them squirm when they push back.

Want to have some fun? Take a cheap job with a throwaway company. Instead of submitting their report on their form, type out your entire report, making sure that every question on the questionaire is addressed fully and completely in your report, and fax the report, along with your receipt and an invoice, to the company.

Wait 30 days and send them a late notice, another 30 and send a PAST DUE notice. Finally, after 90 days add a ridiculous late fee, and send them a FINAL ATTEMPt TO COLLECT BEFORE COLLECTION notice.

YOu will never, of course, see your money, but you can have a lot of fun jerking their chain.

jersey07032 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So....when I meet with my accountant I am going to
> bring this up. Again. I will let you know. I might
> even call the IRS to get clarification. Again. I
> can't find the check list they sent,but I remember
> it clearly. Still, I am curious...so I will call
> when I can. I will keep you posted.
>
> Now, my question. As interesting as all this
> is...so what. Is anyone going to stop shopping
> because we are not really ICs???

JayTee

LOL Your posts have been marvelous. especially the last one. seriously.


I have got to admit I have referred to myself as an IC in these posts. Even made the argument others are making....if I can turn down work, I MUST be an IC. HaH!

Thanks JayTEe

The examples you have provided, taking the McDonald's job and then doing it outside the assigned times or taking a job and submitting the report in your own format don't really hold water. Once you take a job you have entered into a contract and everything you said is all covered in that contract. If you wish to change the times, change the fees, change the report, then that needs to be negotiated before not after. If you make those changes without agreement from the other party then you have violated the contract, have no right to expect payment and/or reimbursement and should have no expectation of ever working with company again.

LisaSTL The point JayTee is trying to make is there is precious little negotiating and self-direction, which is the essence of an IC. Yes, at times, one of us says to a scheduler I will not do that unless I am paid x. That is not the point. An IC--a true IC--is given a problem and told to solve it. I have called myself an IC in these posts, focusing only on the fact that I can pick and choose the jobs I take. However, I too have missed the point. I could pick and choose when I worked for the school districts. I could tell them I was busy and couldn't take a job. Or I could just refuse without a reason. I thought that made me an IC then--and I really wanted to be one for tax purposes. To my chagrin the school districts insisted I was an employee. I argued and fussed and finally turned to my CPA who consulted the IRS. Because they defined the scope of the job--they told me what to do (and I had to get permission to deviate)--I was an employee. As a tutor/educational consultant I am a true IC. I decide what works best for each of my students, sometimes in consultation with other parties. I am not told what books, software programs, or papers to use. I set the fees and decide if/when to give a parent a discount. I determine the policies. I can choose to negotiate with the parents but I don't let them tell me how to do my job. With minor exceptions here and there, the MSC defines the work. For example, I am doing a shop now. Email first (and I have to say what they tell me to say in the email EXACTLY), then phone call (I have to use a special number, start the call with a given phrase--again, EXACTLY), then visit. I have to use their form to fill out the report. I must submit the report within 24 hours. I am not really an IC, no matter what the MSC says and what I want to believe--or what I want to call myself. Again, and I cannot repeat this enough, I would never make an issue about this with any of the MSCs. Really, it is to my advantage to be considered an IC. I love it. But, according to the IRS's definitions, we are employees, not ICs. If the IRS ever looks into this--and G-d knows why they haven't--the MSCs would be in deep, not me. I continue to sign the IC contracts--because to not do so means I would not work. And because I love the tax advantages.

Way back when I was in the union, every monday they would post the week's runs, and we would all bid on them, How much we would do the run for. The lowest bid, with the highest senority got the job.

Often, once we had a contract, we could then renegotiate the terms, especially the final due date and time.

Sometimes we could not.

We were never required to bid on any job, nor were we required to bid at all. But if we didnt win a bid, we didnt work, and dint get paid that week.

Not a problem, there was always someone with less senority just waiting to snatch up the jobs that we didnt want.

Once we had our dispatch, it was up to us how we handled the run, as long as it picked up on time and delivered on time. WWe could do it in 3 straight 11 hour runs, with 10 hours off, or we could do it in 6 on five off, or we could mix it up how we wanted.

We were instructed to obey the law, but if we did not, and if we got caught, it was our problem, our responsibility.

I guess we whould have all called ourselves Independent Contractors, except for then the company wouldnt have had to pay our health insurance, our Social Secirity, workers comp, unemployment, sick days, vacation days, holidays, uniforms, and all the other benefits that often come with being an employee.

If the company had tried to force us to be called Independent Contaractors, the union would have thrown a fit that made Real Housewives of Jersey look like Barney and Friends.

It's all just a matter of who is reading the paper, and how they choose to interpret it.

Ever had a kid bring home one of those, "I release the school form any liability" forms, to go on a field trip.

Do you think that the school would be liable if your kid got hurt?

Of course they would!

The paper is simply psycological. It makes you think that you have actually assumed liability, so you are less likely to pursue a course of action with the school.

But of course, if challenged that paper would never hold up in court.

But, like jersey said, there is generally no reason to challenge it. I'm happy how it is.

However, when a sharp metal shelf at The Big Importing Mega Store sliced my Wife's leg while she was doing a merchandising job (bras) for CFA, I was amazed that the manager in his little blue shirt didnt even offer a first aid kit, and the CSR for CFA was only worried about whether or not she had completed the reset before she left to get stitches, or if someone else was going to have to finish it.

In that case, workers comp would have been appropriate. Good thing we had our own insurance, because everyone else ran from that like cockroaches when the light comes on.

Hi all! Newbie here with a first post!

I have been shopping for a few years, but only now stumbled on this forum.
I thought I'd add my voice to the conversation. I agree we cannot disclose which companies shop specific clients. But I agree that there are ways around it. Let's say someone like myself posts that I wish I knew who shopped certain clients like oh, let's randomly say Red Robin, Chili's, Olive Garden, Barnes & Noble, KFC... Someone else who knows can't outright tell me that info, but they can go into their account with that company and send a referral. No info has been revealed/passed to me. My info was passed to them as a referral. I know I've done this with friends who ask me. I tell them I can't reveal any info, but would gladly make a referral.

Actually, though, I'm more interested in just finding out what regions/states/areas companies shop. I hate signing up for dozens and dozens of companies, only to find out they only do certain states nowhere near me.
Is that info allowed to be passed on? Or is even that a violation of NDA's?

It's certainly not a violation to discuss where the work might be. What most of us find is just because a company doesn't have a job in your area today or next month, doesn't mean they won't at some point. I think there may be some companies operating on a regional basis, but most pursue clients every where. Rather than limit yourself to companies that only have current jobs in your area why don't you utilize some tools to make signing up for new companies a breeze. Keep several writing samples on file and use a program that will fill in most of the fields for you.

I do exactly that! - I have a document of saved writing samples for every occasion: Good restaurant, bad restaurant, good retail, bad retail, etc... Saves so much time and effort!
I didn't know I could use a program to fill in fields automatically! That would certainly help as well.

I've found Google Chrome works well for me and I think Roboform will do it as well. It doesn't take care of everything, but it does make it fairly easy peasy

LisaSTL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> Keep several writing samples on file and use a program that
> will fill in most of the fields for you.
.......................................................................

Exactly what "Fields" are you referring too? The fields on an MSC's application form or fields on a shop report?

Applications. If I use autofill it takes care of my name, phone numbers, address, e-mail, etc. Just a lot of the tedious stuff.

Yeah, Google works for me. What I need to do is get some boiler plate. save it in word. things like best or worst or recent shopping experience. and companies I have worked for. as for that last--is it kosher for one msc to ask what other msc's I have worked for? I think it is ok, as long as I don't put company and client together.

In the beginning I would provide the name of companies. For a long time now my standard response has been that the information is confidential and I will be happy to provide other industry references.

It's not like Company A is going to call Company B for a reference. LOL. Do they read the writing sample?

Hard to say. I've submitted samples and had my login info e-mailed to me within minutes. What does that tell ya

that this is all probably a bunch of hooey!

LOL