Bill Gates did not go to college!
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Bill Gates definitely did go to college (and dropped out). In other news, Grizzley Adams also had a beard as well.
I graduated from a well-known university with a high GPA. Guess what? I'm working in an office part-time making little more than minimum wage. That's laughable that someone without a degree can't do a steakhouse assignment.
I just received my masters degree and all I do is mystery shop! Not for lack of trying to get another job though...ugh.
I've done that shop...once. They haven't approved me for any others.
I've done that shop...once. They haven't approved me for any others.
I think there is no question about the fact that many without a college degree would do perfectly fine with the steakhouse shop. It's more about the numbers...
Even with the existing requirements, the MSC never has to go begging for shoppers to take these shops (unless it's in Las Vegas). I'm willing to bet the statistical probability of running into a problem with the shop goes down with shoppers that meet the income & education bracket specified. When a shop goes bad, it costs the MSC time and money, so why would they bother?
Trust me...I have scheduled and edited fine dining shops equivalent to this one. The people on this forum do not represent the vast majority of shoppers. Sadly, the majority of those mystery shopping have trouble stringing a grammatically correct sentence together. Opening the floodgates to the masses so that a few qualified but not college educated shoppers can join the free steak-eating group would probably be a waste of time and money for the MSC.
Even with the existing requirements, the MSC never has to go begging for shoppers to take these shops (unless it's in Las Vegas). I'm willing to bet the statistical probability of running into a problem with the shop goes down with shoppers that meet the income & education bracket specified. When a shop goes bad, it costs the MSC time and money, so why would they bother?
Trust me...I have scheduled and edited fine dining shops equivalent to this one. The people on this forum do not represent the vast majority of shoppers. Sadly, the majority of those mystery shopping have trouble stringing a grammatically correct sentence together. Opening the floodgates to the masses so that a few qualified but not college educated shoppers can join the free steak-eating group would probably be a waste of time and money for the MSC.
We are often asked, "Are you comfortable portraying an upper income person" such as with jewelry shops, etc. If we can stretch our way that way, why can't we "act" as though we are college educated? Seems ridiculous to me. I have a MA degree, but I think I won't apply to them just on principle for the ridiculous discrimination.
57carol Wrote:
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> I think I won't apply to them just on
> principle for the ridiculous discrimination.
I would guess that requiring a college degree is probably the most widely accepted practice as a qualifier for employers worldwide. How is that possibly discrimination (the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, esp. on the grounds of race, age, or gender)?
People, your education is something you can control. It's neither discrimination nor ridiculous to ask for educated workers!
[edited because the profanity filter made the definition of discrimination confusing]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2013 03:26PM by SteveSoCal.
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> I think I won't apply to them just on
> principle for the ridiculous discrimination.
I would guess that requiring a college degree is probably the most widely accepted practice as a qualifier for employers worldwide. How is that possibly discrimination (the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, esp. on the grounds of race, age, or gender)?
People, your education is something you can control. It's neither discrimination nor ridiculous to ask for educated workers!
[edited because the profanity filter made the definition of discrimination confusing]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2013 03:26PM by SteveSoCal.
I claim that I went to Harvard Medical School. A biopsy taken from my leg was sent there.
(They couldn't figure out what I had, but a podiatrist made the correct diagnosis. I got treated & have been fine.)
(They couldn't figure out what I had, but a podiatrist made the correct diagnosis. I got treated & have been fine.)
My husband went to college and he would be less capable of doing a mystery shop than a crack-addled monkey. I love the man, but the written word is not his strong suit. Just goes to show that when you decide to label people, you tend to get less desirable results than if you judged based on merit.
cake... Wrote:
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> Just goes to
> show that when you decide to label people, you
> tend to get less desirable results than if you
> judged based on merit.
An education is not a label, it's a qualification.
You are citing one specific instance with your husband, but statistically college grads are a better bet when you are looking for someone to write a report. See the following chart from the National Center for Education Statistics:
[nces.ed.gov]
College grads have consistently higher scores for literacy than those with no college. If the MSC was working these statistics, they should actually disqualify those over 65 as well, it seems...
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> Just goes to
> show that when you decide to label people, you
> tend to get less desirable results than if you
> judged based on merit.
An education is not a label, it's a qualification.
You are citing one specific instance with your husband, but statistically college grads are a better bet when you are looking for someone to write a report. See the following chart from the National Center for Education Statistics:
[nces.ed.gov]
College grads have consistently higher scores for literacy than those with no college. If the MSC was working these statistics, they should actually disqualify those over 65 as well, it seems...
SteveSoCal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cake... Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Just goes to
> > show that when you decide to label people, you
> > tend to get less desirable results than if you
> > judged based on merit.
>
> An education is not a label, it's a
> qualification.
>
> You are citing one specific instance with your
> husband, but statistically college grads are a
> better bet when you are looking for someone to
> write a report. See the following chart from the
> National Center for Education Statistics:
>
> [nces.ed.gov]
>
> College grads have consistently higher scores for
> literacy than those with no college. If the MSC
> was working these statistics, they should actually
> disqualify those over 65 as well, it seems...
I see where you're coming from, but in everyday life you're just as likely to get a half-illiterate college grad or a less-educated, self-taught writer as a fully literate college grad. And *many* college-age kids are skipping the formal education these days because you risk not being able to find a job that pays more than $20,000 a year after running up six figures of debt.
-------------------------------------------------------
> cake... Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Just goes to
> > show that when you decide to label people, you
> > tend to get less desirable results than if you
> > judged based on merit.
>
> An education is not a label, it's a
> qualification.
>
> You are citing one specific instance with your
> husband, but statistically college grads are a
> better bet when you are looking for someone to
> write a report. See the following chart from the
> National Center for Education Statistics:
>
> [nces.ed.gov]
>
> College grads have consistently higher scores for
> literacy than those with no college. If the MSC
> was working these statistics, they should actually
> disqualify those over 65 as well, it seems...
I see where you're coming from, but in everyday life you're just as likely to get a half-illiterate college grad or a less-educated, self-taught writer as a fully literate college grad. And *many* college-age kids are skipping the formal education these days because you risk not being able to find a job that pays more than $20,000 a year after running up six figures of debt.
and I see where you are coming from, Cake...
While anecdotally your statement makes sense, statistically you are much less likely to run across a semi-leterate college grad than a highly qualified non-college-educated writer.
There's always the risk of not being able to find a good job after school and employment relies on many factors outside of education, but I'm a bit concerned about all of the justification for not furthering one's education. Another statistical fact is that those with college degrees earn almost twice as much as those without.
see: [www.ohe.state.mn.us]
In my main career, no college education is required. Experience and ability are the only factors that determine if someone gets a job or not. The thing is; I have been realizing recently that the majority of highly-successful people I work with have degrees from prestigious universities. Just looking around my office at my co-workers as I discretely post here instead of doing my job, I see people from Princeton, Harvard, Brown and Juliard. It makes me want to slink away and not discuss my state school education whenever the subject of college comes up.
I wish someone had told me when I was 16 that a degree from an ivy league school would matter so much socially when I entered the business world!
While anecdotally your statement makes sense, statistically you are much less likely to run across a semi-leterate college grad than a highly qualified non-college-educated writer.
There's always the risk of not being able to find a good job after school and employment relies on many factors outside of education, but I'm a bit concerned about all of the justification for not furthering one's education. Another statistical fact is that those with college degrees earn almost twice as much as those without.
see: [www.ohe.state.mn.us]
In my main career, no college education is required. Experience and ability are the only factors that determine if someone gets a job or not. The thing is; I have been realizing recently that the majority of highly-successful people I work with have degrees from prestigious universities. Just looking around my office at my co-workers as I discretely post here instead of doing my job, I see people from Princeton, Harvard, Brown and Juliard. It makes me want to slink away and not discuss my state school education whenever the subject of college comes up.
I wish someone had told me when I was 16 that a degree from an ivy league school would matter so much socially when I entered the business world!
The thing is, I believe that higher education *is* important - but these days you have to be extremely careful to seek a degree with earning potential. I have a friend with $100k in student loans and a 4-year degree from a solid, reputable university who hasn't been able to get a job paying higher than $9 an hour in the seven years since graduation, because her degree is in a field that tanked with the economic downturn. I myself hold a bachelor's degree in business and finance from a private university that has gotten me absolutely nowhere in the four years since graduation.
Higher education is simply too expensive for many people: those who don't qualify for grants, who are unable to earn scholarships (which are becoming fewer and fewer these days) and who simply can't make enough money to pay tuition bills.
In 1981, tuition at the University of Washington was $687 per year. $687 adjusted for inflation to 2013 dollars is $1765.46
In 2013, tuition at the University of Washington is $12,500 per year.
Even considering the inflated rate of $1765.46, tuition has risen 700% in the last 22 years. In comparison, federal minimum wage (calculated in 2013 dollars) has only risen 216%. No wonder people can't afford college.
Higher education is simply too expensive for many people: those who don't qualify for grants, who are unable to earn scholarships (which are becoming fewer and fewer these days) and who simply can't make enough money to pay tuition bills.
In 1981, tuition at the University of Washington was $687 per year. $687 adjusted for inflation to 2013 dollars is $1765.46
In 2013, tuition at the University of Washington is $12,500 per year.
Even considering the inflated rate of $1765.46, tuition has risen 700% in the last 22 years. In comparison, federal minimum wage (calculated in 2013 dollars) has only risen 216%. No wonder people can't afford college.
Understood on the cost of tuition. The discussion reminds me of a recent interview I saw with Mike Rowe (the host of "Dirty Jobs") where he was discussion the fact that while so many college educated people are struggling to find work, around 3 million skilled labor jobs in the US go unfilled.
Here's a link I found about it, and it doesn't really help my argument, but it's interesting:
[www.kmbc.com]
The interview that I saw went on to say that many young people coming from school these days also want more than office jobs. Degrees in the arts are much more prevalent and there are too many people wanting the fun/interesting jobs as well.
I guess it relates to this discussion in that there are different shops for different folks. Not everybody gets access to the steakhouse..
Here's a link I found about it, and it doesn't really help my argument, but it's interesting:
[www.kmbc.com]
The interview that I saw went on to say that many young people coming from school these days also want more than office jobs. Degrees in the arts are much more prevalent and there are too many people wanting the fun/interesting jobs as well.
I guess it relates to this discussion in that there are different shops for different folks. Not everybody gets access to the steakhouse..
I was denied this shop for the same reason. (If not this one, it was a very similar one) I was highly offended as well. When we were choosing a location for our anniversary dinner, my husband offered to take me to this location. I declined. If I am too ignorant to shop for them, then I am too ignorant to offer them our cash. I don't think they realize that many people cannot afford the cost of college, but can still maintain some semblance of intelligence and decorum.
> I guess the client has not heard of the
> Multi-Millionaires. who fear spending their money,
> so as a result, live like a Pauper (hoarding their
> cash). One day they die and everyone is SHOCKED to
> find they have Bazillions in the bank!
In my experience, most rich people live frugally. The people who buy expensive things (cars, watches, etc.) are usually upper middle class individuals who spend X + 0.1X of their income (where income is X). If you run the numbers, you realize very quickly how difficult it is to have a high income stream, high net worth over time, *and* spend on depreciating stupidities like fancy cars.
As far as the "Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, didn't go to college" trope, it is overblown. Yes, these men were college dropouts, but they were smart and lucky. They also stole much of what they later sold as their business (look it up), as is very common in the tech industry. Most young people will be better off going to college at some point, majoring in a pragmatic subject, getting work experience and building wealth slowly. Yes, get rich slowly. It sucks, it's kind of like maintaining a healthy weight, or managing time. You do it with discipline, slowly, over time. Boring, huh?
That still doesn't mean that a person with no college degree should be denied a steak house shop, IMHO.
> Multi-Millionaires. who fear spending their money,
> so as a result, live like a Pauper (hoarding their
> cash). One day they die and everyone is SHOCKED to
> find they have Bazillions in the bank!
In my experience, most rich people live frugally. The people who buy expensive things (cars, watches, etc.) are usually upper middle class individuals who spend X + 0.1X of their income (where income is X). If you run the numbers, you realize very quickly how difficult it is to have a high income stream, high net worth over time, *and* spend on depreciating stupidities like fancy cars.
As far as the "Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, didn't go to college" trope, it is overblown. Yes, these men were college dropouts, but they were smart and lucky. They also stole much of what they later sold as their business (look it up), as is very common in the tech industry. Most young people will be better off going to college at some point, majoring in a pragmatic subject, getting work experience and building wealth slowly. Yes, get rich slowly. It sucks, it's kind of like maintaining a healthy weight, or managing time. You do it with discipline, slowly, over time. Boring, huh?
That still doesn't mean that a person with no college degree should be denied a steak house shop, IMHO.
A college education is important. Just ask all those college grads that can say "Want fries with that?" just as proficiently as a high school drop out. The college grads will also have a college loan that will haunt them to their grave.
You hear the stories about the party colleges. If you were a member of Un Kappa Brew or I felta Thigh fraternities you were always high but rarely educated. Student are graduating college without the knowledge to read or write English or pass tests that are given to first year high school students. Businesses are rejecting college grads as the information they have learned does not prepare them for employment. Businesses are finding they have to hire people with aptitude and teach those people the information that will make them valuable to that company. Years ago they called it apprenticeship.
America wake up! The world will beat us unless we aquire the knowledge we need to meet the challenges.
I learned when I was four years old that there is no free lunch. You must give value to get value in return. If you do do not give value you are getting charity and people will grow tired of giving you a free ride.
Did I go to college? Yes!
You hear the stories about the party colleges. If you were a member of Un Kappa Brew or I felta Thigh fraternities you were always high but rarely educated. Student are graduating college without the knowledge to read or write English or pass tests that are given to first year high school students. Businesses are rejecting college grads as the information they have learned does not prepare them for employment. Businesses are finding they have to hire people with aptitude and teach those people the information that will make them valuable to that company. Years ago they called it apprenticeship.
America wake up! The world will beat us unless we aquire the knowledge we need to meet the challenges.
I learned when I was four years old that there is no free lunch. You must give value to get value in return. If you do do not give value you are getting charity and people will grow tired of giving you a free ride.
Did I go to college? Yes!
Well, the debt won't follow them to their grave if they take federal loans. Those are forgiven after 25 years.
5 year's of college & two degrees. Most of you are smarter than me in this field and teach me much more than I can offer to you..........and I thank you for that.
When I first moved to Canada from the US, I actually had to lower my educational attainment just to get an administrative assistant job, as a starting job. I just excluded my complete educational background to get an interview. This was through the advise of a counselor. In a very short while, they asked me to upgrade my resume when they promoted me.
I think in mystery shopping, they do look at the education, earning (over $50,000) and age, based on the shop but when one has established her/his working history or reputation among the scheduler community, they somehow ignore some of the qualifications. I remember being offered to change my rating to get the shop I applied for when my records indicated that I had never done any shop for the company (my rating would not qualify me for the shop). Another instance when I was asked by a scheduler to take my son for an upscale men's shop and I said, "He won't qualify because he is a year older than the age requirement." I was told to bring him anyway, "if he looks anywhere like you."
I remember reading something in an MSC guide that you don't have to be that age. You only have to look that age. Maybe it does not apply to everything but they do make exceptions. Since they have our profiles, they are the ones who are capable of making the exceptions.
I think in mystery shopping, they do look at the education, earning (over $50,000) and age, based on the shop but when one has established her/his working history or reputation among the scheduler community, they somehow ignore some of the qualifications. I remember being offered to change my rating to get the shop I applied for when my records indicated that I had never done any shop for the company (my rating would not qualify me for the shop). Another instance when I was asked by a scheduler to take my son for an upscale men's shop and I said, "He won't qualify because he is a year older than the age requirement." I was told to bring him anyway, "if he looks anywhere like you."
I remember reading something in an MSC guide that you don't have to be that age. You only have to look that age. Maybe it does not apply to everything but they do make exceptions. Since they have our profiles, they are the ones who are capable of making the exceptions.
I have chimed in on this previously, and I do agree that the MSC/business owner have the option of setting whatever guidelines and limitations they would like. I do, however, find it slightly offensive that past performance could not override this requirement. If I have submitted well written reports, then my writing skills are documented. I have no degree, because at the time of my graduation, I could not afford to attend. I graduated valedictorian. I am not ignorant. My lack of degree would not stop me from spending my money in this establishment. My view of the company equating a degree with their clientele DID stop me from spending my money there. While I have not ruled out further education, it is for my own betterment, not the perception of intelligence the piece of paper affords. These shops are not only a business for us, but they show us another side of some of these establishments that affect the way we see them. They may not miss my cash, but neither will I if I keep it in my pocket.
How do you know that excellent performance on a previous shop would not override the requirement?
Anyone that has a good relationship with the scheduler for the shop is free to email them and ask for an exception....
Anyone that has a good relationship with the scheduler for the shop is free to email them and ask for an exception....
I must admit, I did not request the exception. I was floored by the requirement at the time of incidence. If I have a good rating with a company, I make the assumption that they understand how seriously I take each job I am given. Since this particular job remained unfilled on the job board, a proactive scheduler might have looked at the denied applicants. Yes, in hindsight I should have requested an exception. In the future, I believe that I will. Thank You for the advice.
inskydiamonds Wrote:
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> Well, the debt won't follow them to their grave if
> they take federal loans. Those are forgiven after
> 25 years.
Oh no they're not, they just kick them into default status and take away your social security when you're a little old whos'it in orthopedic underwear.
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> Well, the debt won't follow them to their grave if
> they take federal loans. Those are forgiven after
> 25 years.
Oh no they're not, they just kick them into default status and take away your social security when you're a little old whos'it in orthopedic underwear.
Her Serene Majesty, Cettie - Goat Queen of Zoltar, Sublime Empress of Her Caprine Domain
Cettie Wrote:
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> inskydiamonds Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well, the debt won't follow them to their grave
> if
> > they take federal loans. Those are forgiven
> after
> > 25 years.
>
> Oh no they're not, they just kick them into
> default status and take away your social security
> when you're a little old whos'it in orthopedic
> underwear.
Not entirely true
I just graduated and am dealing with beginning to pay loans back. Most people aren't aware, but after 25 years the loans are forgiven if they have been on the income-based repayment plan and after 10 years they're forgiven if you are doing public interest work.
[www.finaid.org]
But, I'll no doubt not have any social security, that's for sure.
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> inskydiamonds Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well, the debt won't follow them to their grave
> if
> > they take federal loans. Those are forgiven
> after
> > 25 years.
>
> Oh no they're not, they just kick them into
> default status and take away your social security
> when you're a little old whos'it in orthopedic
> underwear.
Not entirely true
I just graduated and am dealing with beginning to pay loans back. Most people aren't aware, but after 25 years the loans are forgiven if they have been on the income-based repayment plan and after 10 years they're forgiven if you are doing public interest work.
[www.finaid.org]
But, I'll no doubt not have any social security, that's for sure.
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