And singling out StormCloud in a McDonald's dress code thread, openly, for a bit of flippancy, is somehow appropriate in the "professional areas of the forum?"

I like her flippancy. It offsets some of the pettiness and nitpicking that appears to run rampant here.

BBird, you forgot hypocrisy.

(heart)

Do you folks not know how to act professionally?

Was it professional to single out StormCloud openly in a forum, in the "professional area of the forum?" No. No, it was not.

Was it professional to insult StillLearning in the Scheduler Contest Comments thread by saying "I'd hazard a guess that you are not 'still learning' fast enough?" No. No, it was not. But I guess to you, it was okay because it was in the "General Chat" sub-forum. But, as you said... "not at the expense of others." Even though it's in General Chat, it's still visible to everyone, including your professional contacts.

Maybe you should take your own advice.

I make a genuine effort to be kind to those who show respect for others. For those who do not, kindness is hardly a priority.

That's your prerogative. It is StormCloud's prerogative to be herself. She is a light-hearted person. Just because you're a forum OG, t's not on you to dictate how others express themselves. We can't all be droll and tedious.

I am also a light-hearted person. I joined this forum to "talk shop" with like-minded people. I stumbled across this forum because of a "pizza bottoms' thread which I found hilarious and thought "There's other people out there who take this seriously and still have fun with it." That's why I joined, because of that thread, and the possibility of connecting with others who enjoy this and enjoy talking about it, in fun. I am not going to change who I am just because you don't like it.

Yes, I am very proudly a member of the Old Guard (or OG as you disdainfully put it). As a member of this forum for more than six years, my goal has been to 'pay it forward' for all the good advice and assistance I was given when I returned to shopping after a hiatus of about 40 years. The hundreds of hours I have spend on this forum answering questions from new shoppers and offering the best advice I could based on my experience I feel DOES entitle me to comment on what I see to be counterproductive posts and behaviors that diminish participation in this forum by more serious minded shoppers.

I'm not thin skinned and don't need to hide behind my posse of “Like”rs to state my case.

There is appropriate professional behavior and there is inappropriate and unprofessional behavior and I will at any time and in any space on the forum, feel free to call out those who think this is their playground and a place to insult and belittle others for the entertainment of their posse.

Flash Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------
> There is appropriate professional behavior and
> there is inappropriate and unprofessional behavior
> and I will at any time and in any space on the
> forum, feel free to call out those who think this
> is their playground and a place to insult and
> belittle others for the entertainment of their
> posse.

I agree, and... likewise. By the way, there's a post over in the Scheduler Contest comments thread, by a member who goes by the name of Flash (you may have seen her posts in your extensive time here) which was both inappropriate and unprofessional. Please feel free to call out that one, because as you said (and I agree) that this is not a place to insult and belittle others for the entertainment of their posse.

Also, I'm a bit unclear as to how referring to something by its' initials is disdainful.

Flash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I make a genuine effort to be kind to those who
> show respect for others. For those who do not,
> kindness is hardly a priority.

So Flash, let me see if I understand your personal standards. You, who proudly identifies herself as a member of the "Old Guard", has decided that this self-granted title gives you the right to determine who is worthy of respect and who is not. Those that you have dubbed "worthy", you always treat kindly; those who you, do not deem worthy of respect, you don't consider kindness as a priority and allow yourself the freedom to treat them anyway you wish, including insulting and belittling them "for the entertainment of you and (your) posse".

In my humble opinion, no one is "entitled" on this thread and for you to think you (and your posse) have special rights, further highlights why it's time to stop and to listen to the new voices, such as BBird.

(heart)

I'm not sure: do I qualify as OG? I would be honored to be lumped with Flash and mert and others who are Old Guard, if that's what you mean by OG, but I feel so inadequate to their standards. The only reason I hesitated to "Like" Flash's and walesmaven's posts on this thread is that the "Like" button has been so over-used as to become cheapened. It means little more than a couple of football players who slap hands (or butts) after a "good one."

But .... X 2 on Flash's comments on this thread. I have argued sometimes against the use of the words "bullying" and the idea that we want a forum without any humor or snark, but it's gone over the top in recent months. There is an unprofessional atmosphere, and it's attracting like-minded new posters.

I disagree - we CAN all be droll and tedious. Simply because a new poster describes herself or someone else as "light-hearted" does not mean that others do not perceive her as tedious and unprofessional. And because few posters have made arguing comments does not mean that everyone finds those posts pleasant and professional.

Can't please everyone, so I just be myself.

Think I'm unprofessional? Well then, I'm sure you're glad I don't work for you.

Bbird, you are great, just the way you are and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

(heart)

Back at ya! Stay gold, Ponyboy.

My 23 year-old son breezed in as I was reading the forum. I asked him what OG was. He offered that it could be Original Gangsta, Old Girl, or something else that I can't repeat in polite company. Am I OG? Depends on the definition of the acronym.

For most, it is entirely possible to be yourself, be professional, adhere to posting guidelines, show respect, and have fun here.

Haha, I actually meant it as 'Original Gangsta' but Old Guard works just as well, I suppose.

My first thought was Old Goat!

I don't know about all this "OG" stuff, I mean I've been here since 2008 - I just haven't exactly homesteaded here. I don't think someone who registered years ago, or happens to like to post a lot of opinions has more of a right than anyone else to speak their mind.

I don't believe that unprofessionalism is limited to lighthearted, sophomoric posts (at which I proudly excel). Many unnecessary, hurtful posts have been written in what some would consider "professional" prose.

I believe that when a person uses self-deprecating humor to make a point, they should be respected for their restraint, when often another person could have been the target. However, I have seen many cases where someone turns their statement back on them in an attempt to rub her nose in it. Yet, those are the ones who are most likely to protest the loudest about how everyone else should behave.

Certain people may get under your skin. That is why there is a toggle feature. I use it, and it makes things so much nicer.

Wow. Just, wow. o.0
Guess that shows *me* for being away for a day (or so).

So, when did Jacob die, and leave the forum to a few particular posters, in his will?

The levels of sanctimoniousness, pretentiousness, hypocrisy, double-standards, and entitlement exhibited here, by some, are astounding. You only get to tell others what do do and how to behave in *your* house. And this ain't your house. It's a meeting place for all of us.

Just so ya'll know... what the "rules" are, are these:



(and, taken from the main page of the forum, where it describes each section of the forum)


Note the last part of each of those, there.


Flash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I frankly do not know if you have ever come out of
> the Twilight Zone. The Posting Guidelines ask
> that you add a positive contribution to the forum
> and unfortunately I see more smarty pants from you
> than positive contributions. If you are here just
> to party and goof around, stay in the Chat area.
> That is an area where professionalism and respect
> are less expected.

and then walesmaven Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Encourging off topic flippancy in the professional
> areas of the forum just does not comport with the
> "positive contribution" rule. Next time, open a
> Chat thread for this sort of thing, please.

Presuming my first post was being referenced by these posters... (the one about underwear as outerwear)... precisely how was I not making a positive contribution? Just because it was intended to be funny? Others had already more than adequately answered the question at hand. How many ways can the same thing be said? And just what is your definition of "positive", that it dismisses levity?

Perhaps that post of mine *was* "flippant", or "smarty-pants"; if by those terms you mean "fun"; but how in the heck was it off-topic? What I posted was perfectly relevant, pursuant to not only this thread, but another recent thread discussing MSC dress codes overall. And, yeah, it was silly. So what the heck is wrong with that? You expect me to open a whole entire brand-new thread, just to post that comment, when it was 100% relevant to the discussion taking place here in this thread? Why, so I could get blasted about opening unnecessary threads?

Just who is it, who appointed the 'Mystery Shopping Discussion' section to be "the professional area of the forum"? And even if it is, who made the executive decision that absolutely no levity (or, as some have been calling it, "flippancy" ) is allowed to be included with "professional" discussion? Subsequently, who ordained a certain few to be the ones who get to deem what is and isn't "professional", and when and where fun is allowed on the forum?

Now, if any of that was referencing my *second* post, at the point when I made that post, it posed perfectly rational questions. There was absolutely no basis for accusations of being "hateful", "abusive", or "a jerk" to be flung around. But since they were, that made my post totally on-topic ~ at least as on-topic as the accusatory posts were. And, my post was certainly more positive than the posts tossing out those accusations. The words "hateful" and "abusive" (along with "bullying" ) are so incredibly overused and misused, that they've come to lose most of their meaning and impact. It's also oddly ironic that the ones flinging those accusations are often doing exactly what they're accusing others of, by their very accusations.

Neither of my posts in question showed any disrespect. At least not any more than the posts I got in response. And who the heck was "having fun at the expense of others" in this thread?

Speaking of being on/off-topic... how was Flash's post (quoted up there somewhere) a relevant answer to the questions it purported to be answering? Flash quoted my second post with those comments, yet didn't address a single point. Also, just how was *that* a "positive contribution"? And just how could it possibly be considered "professional"? (By the way, at least it's a lot more fun here in the Twilight Zone, than having my head stuck up my own... whatever world you live on.)


walesmaven Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> <snipped, because I addressed this part already>
> The rest of us are trying to take our obligations to
> posters seriously.

Perhaps a bit *too* seriously. The primary topic of this thread was a reasonably simple question. So what, if along with giving an appropriate answer, a little fun was had? Are you really *that* opposed to fun? I guess you've already answered that question.


Flash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you folks not know how to act professionally?

Pot, meet kettle.


Flash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I make a genuine effort to be kind to those who
> show respect for others. For those who do not,
> kindness is hardly a priority.

Well! At least now I know I don't have to be kind to you.


Flash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> (blah, blah, blah... )
> DOES entitle me to comment on what I see to
> be counterproductive posts and behaviors that
> diminish participation in this forum by more
> serious minded shoppers.

So you're the ruler of the Mystery Shop Forum universe? We'll have to let Jacob know that he's no longer needed.

The rest of us are entitled to post as we see fit, also. Longevity does not equate to superiority. Being serious about this business does not equate to unmitigated formality with no fun along for the ride. Your definition of "counterproductive" is not the be-all, end-all final word. How dare you take it upon yourself to tell others what they should and shouldn't say, do, or be.


> There is appropriate professional behavior and
> there is inappropriate and unprofessional behavior
> and I will at any time and in any space on the
> forum, feel free to call out those who think this
> is their playground and a place to insult and
> belittle others for the entertainment of their
> posse.

What's that whole parable about removing the board from your own eye, so you can remove the speck from someone else's?


AustinMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But .... X 2 on Flash's comments on this thread.
> I have argued sometimes against the use of the
> words "bullying" and the idea that we want a forum
> without any humor or snark, but it's gone over the
> top in recent months.

Where?! I know I haven't had time to hang out here as much lately, but I just don't see this rampant "over the top" humor and snark. And, even if one wants to argue that humor and snark has increased lately, why does that bother you so deeply? Why is that such an awful, horrible, must-be-quashed thing? And... *real* "bullying" is exceedingy rare. It exists, but certainly isn't rampant.


> There is an unprofessional atmosphere,
> and it's attracting like-minded new posters.

Who?! The vast majority of new posters I've noticed over the past several months are at least reasonably bright and articulate, serious about the business, helpful and informative, and (gasp!) some joviality.

I just fail to see how levity = unprofessionalism. Oh well.


> I disagree - we CAN all be droll and tedious.
> Simply because a new poster describes herself or
> someone else as "light-hearted" does not mean that
> others do not perceive her as tedious and
> unprofessional. And because few posters have made
> arguing comments does not mean that everyone finds
> those posts pleasant and professional.

Well la-dee-dah and good for you. At least I can agree with your first statement.

I'm not a major poster on the forum anymore due to other preoccupations but I have to comment on the development of this thread. Dressing for McDonalds has been discussed and it looks like we're all agreed it's best to dress to fit in. Now we're discussing the tone of the forum and that age old question of right and wrong.

I can't recall that Jacob ever posted his purpose in starting the forum. My best guess would be the purpose was a combination of wanting to reach out to other shoppers and wanting to establish the forum as an eventual profitable venture.

Through time the major contributors change as shoppers cycle in and out of the business, and as those contributors change, the posts will change and we will see something different for a while. Then the cycle repeats itself. New posters are constantly in and out of the forum and we cannot expect it to remain the same.

Controversial topics and fresh approaches to solutions are what drive readership and growth of the forum. I'm sure we all want forum growth for Jacob. Instead of asking ourselves what we personally prefer, perhaps we might ask ourselves what's best for the overall life of the forum. When we ask that question, if we ask that question, we may understand that what we personally prefer may not be best for the forum and that perhaps we should be more open and accepting to the new and unexpected.

I personally hate the attacks on MSCs and reading a baseless rant almost always makes me want to throw some mud of my own around. Personally, I think these unfounded criticisms should be intercepted and destroyed but at the same time I realize they drive traffic to our forum and from that point of view they're good. Others seem to hate joviality and flippancy. Since I enjoy good humor and a fun outlook my favorite part of the forum is the quips and zingers, but that's just me.

The forum belongs to Jacob and does not belong to the posters, no matter the length of our membership or the number of our posts. We cannot take ownership. It's my opinion that if we remove all the humor, quips, zingers, and arguments the readership of the forum will nosedive. We all need know how and those posts are appreciated but what we long for is camaraderie and good times. The dustups like this one are particularly entertaining and we get to know each other better. There's something here for all of us and if we fight about it that's interesting, too.

Excellent post, MDavisnowell! Thank you for putting everything in the proper perspective. Very interesting, very informative and, my favorite, very entertaining.

(heart)

I think it's Ann Landers I'm paraphrasing but I'm not sure...

Small people discuss other people
Good people discuss events
Great people discuss ideas

and then there is the "Live and let live" philosophy.

Why waste time and energy knocking other forum members where there is so little time and so much life to be lived?

What we have here is a conglomeration of personalities. Some are more tolerant of disagreements and language than others. Others make a point of insisting that *their* way of communicating something is the *best* or even further, the *only* way. But that's not true.

Best of Both Worlds said:

"BTW, I hate hearing an adult use the word "allowed". It shouldn't be in your vocabulary unless you're talking to a very young child."

So here it started. Just to throw my own 2 cents into the mix, I dislike hearing an adult criticize other adults for things they should be able to overlook without making an issue about them.

Some of us may say words you may not like. Deal with it! You don't have the right to be a dictator so please try to refrain from acting like one.

To margeryprk, another word for "allow" or "allowable" is "permit" or "permissible," and there are others. Sometimes we just say something is "okay" when we mean it's "allowable" or "permissible," or "we are supposed to" works too. Not that I think there was anything wrong with you saying "allow" in the first place! It was a perfectly accurate way of describing the situation.

Someone else's negative word association with childhood isn't your concern. You are hereby ALLOWED to say whatever the _____ you want as long as you're not being mean, a little dictator or rude to anyone (which you weren't any of these).

Says I! LOLOLOLOL (tongue in cheek)

And just to get back on topic, I don't remember there being any dress code for McDonald's shops. I would just wear whatever you feel comfortable with. If you wanted to come into McDonald's with a wedding or other formal dress on (ok, I know that's extreme) I'm sure it's all been seen and done before at Mickey D's!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2014 12:44AM by nycrocks.

I know I'm late to the party on this post. I did a shop today for a check cashing place that suggested tank tops and flip flops. The shop instructions stated the shoppers ware always being outed for dressing too nicely or even taking a quick glare at the name tag or services board.

If you really need some idea's of how to dress down for fast food, look no further than this website devoted to the outlandish things people wear to Walmart.

I have to warn you, this site can be addictive and if you click you might waste an hour there.

[www.peopleofwalmart.com]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2014 07:31AM by scanman1.

-30-



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2014 04:40AM by Shop2LiveinFL.

In that thread, it was said that creating another thread to make a joke was not the way to go, but that people should instead post it in the thread that they are referencing. It was said in that particular instance, rather than creating the additional thread, the poster should have posted her joke in the thread where the "head-exploding" comment was originally made.

Yet, when other, later people do just that, they're accused of "smarty-pants" and "flippancy."

There's also the duplicate post debacle. Don't post a thread without doing a Search first and finding a relevant thread, and then post in there. Oh wait, don't revive old threads, people will think it's new content... Post a new thread instead.

There's no consistency in the advice/self-appointed moderation, as to how to post on the forum. All we really have to go by are the Posting Guidelines, and, aside from "Do not reveal the clients of MSCs," they are vague and open to interpretation.

Hey, let's talk about the moderators.

We hear a lot about the moderators should fix this and the moderators should fix that. We don't like this post so the moderators should delete it. The tone of that post is atrocious, how dare the moderators let that stand? That poster is nuts so the moderators should throw him/her out. This one's a troll, we don't like her, out with the troll, where is the moderator? I reported that post six times and nothing's been done! Are the moderators asleep? Are the moderators on vacation? Are the moderators dead? God bless their hearts, they catch flack they don't deserve.

What if the moderators work within strict limitations? Huh? You mean they're not omnipotent? No kidding.

Here's a suggestion. If we don't like something, we should attend to it as we see best. We should address our own problems directly and debate the issues until we wear out and reach a stand still. We should leave the moderators out of it. They know what they're supposed to do and we don't. Peace to the moderators, and thank you to the moderators for their service.

“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” ~ Mark Twain



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2014 04:36AM by Shop2LiveinFL.

And some people are two-faced, say one thing one minute and another the next -whichever results in the best negative comments, can't let things drop and have to keep bringing them up over and over and over again ad nauseam, and are just plain unpleasant, bitchy people that I don't care to see in the forums any more. Luckily there is a simple fix - to them you just say @#$%& off and hit that toggle feature which I am doing right now.

Shop2, I understand some of the posts have been extremely abusive. That's probably an issue for Jacob if he is concerned about it.

...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2014 04:39AM by Shop2LiveinFL.