@jobro wrote:

Content and details are the meat of the reports. Don't worry so much about the BS! At the age of 68, I don't know why I am even concerned about what grade I get from some high school dropout. Come to think of it, I REALLY DON'T CARE as long as I get paid. What really bugs me is when some high and mighty editor is too stupid to actually read the report as written. They come back with questions that have already been addressed in the report and then don't pay you when you tell them you have nothing to add. Intellishop has one of those and I am out $45 due to his/her stupidity.

I'm totally with you as far as editors requesting things that you have already addressed. They must have either been in so much of a hurry they didn't really read what you wrote, or they are too dense to realize that what you wrote did answer the question! But I take issue with your implication that proper grammar is BS. Clarity and accuracy in writing are important. Too many people think "grammar doesn't matter." Well, it does. That is, if you expect to be understood without ambiguity. And if you want to come across like a professional. If your (not you personally) grammar is atrocious, your content is likely to be suspect as well (from an editor's perspective).

Yes, sometimes editors can be too picky as far as how they want something worded, even if the grammar is perfect. Editors can be obsessive, and we sometimes think our way of wording something is better. But, if an editor corrects a spelling, grammar, or punctuation mistake, that's not being too picky. An error is an error. If a shopper is asked to comment on the dress department of a store, I don't want to read: "The woman's dress department was understaffed," or, The womens dress department was understaffed," etc. If I were editing a shopper's report, and there were more than one error like that, I'd take off points. I'd also explain, though, why I did. Everyone's allowed a typo or two, but if someone is consistently making the same or similar error, he or she needs to brush up on his or her grammar skills. It's not too much to expect of someone who is doing observations and writing reports for pay. Attention to detail pertains to both.

Why people object to being corrected by an editor on something that is simply incorrect is beyond me. I'd think people would want to know that they're consistently using the wrong its or it's; your or you're; their, they're, or there; every day or everyday; etc. Things like these aren't minor, and an editor's not being petty for commenting on or deducting points for them.

(I feel as if I should 'splain that I do not edit for any MSC, so I'm not "pimping" for them! I'm a professional editor in my "other life." )



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2016 06:00PM by BirdyC.

Yes, there is even a difference between follow up and follow-up (I was a medical report editor for awhile too, and that was one of the mistakes that many beginning transcriptionists make).

@JASFLALMT wrote:

Yes, there is even a difference between follow up and follow-up (I was a medical report editor for awhile too, and that was one of the mistakes that many beginning transcriptionists make).

Exactly! I think there's a lot of confusion in usages like this. People don't seem to see that there's a difference between, "Schedule this patient for a follow-up visit," vs. "Our office will follow up with you in a couple of days to see how you're doing." People use the first example for everything!

To be fair on that specific grammar issue, I think a lot of schools don't teach compound adjectives these days. Or, they do but don't give them a name. That can be something you learn in a specialized field, like medical or legal transcription, or in college. But my high-school grad knows how to use compound adjectives; he just didn't know what they were called. At least he was taught the concept....

Depending on the MSC, a 9 grade (out of 10) is usually excellent. I have gotten 10 grades from a MSC that has a reputation as being very stingy on handing them out, and a slew of 9s from an MSC which previously I thought had been pretty generous. Sometimes it is just luck of the draw.

I got a "9" because I had to be contacted. The name was neutral and I had to explain that the gender in my report was correct.

@BirdyC wrote:

@amberngriffinco wrote:

These MSC's should state you MUST have college.

You shouldn't need to be a college grad in order to use proper grammar. After we've been out of high school for some time, it's easy to forget what we learned. But we learn enough in elementary through high school to be able to write a report in formal, correct English. (At least in the schools with which I'm familiar!)

There are college grads that work in fast food stores for minimum wage because they could not apply the content of knowledge learned in college. The state I live in requires people who "earned" a law degree enroll in mandatory CLEP (Continuing legal education programs). The Judges they appear before are frustrated with the lack of procedural knowledge the new "attorneys" have when standing before the bar.

I mentored many college and law school graduates to transform them from "graduates" to "professionals" who knew their values and goals and were confident enough to perform. From the papers they wrote, many of the graduates thought grammar was an old lady that gave birth to their mothers.

I had an editor contact me for clarification on some "no" answers that were addressed in the narrative. I was told in the email that my report was in "incomplete" status so that I could go in and make the changes. I went in, opened it, looked and noticed that I had indeed commented on all "no" answers, and I clicked submit without making any changes. I received an "8" because I had to be contacted. Seems pretty silly, right? I got paid, though.

@Piled Hip Deep wrote:

@BirdyC wrote:

@amberngriffinco wrote:

These MSC's should state you MUST have college.

You shouldn't need to be a college grad in order to use proper grammar. After we've been out of high school for some time, it's easy to forget what we learned. But we learn enough in elementary through high school to be able to write a report in formal, correct English. (At least in the schools with which I'm familiar!)

There are college grads that work in fast food stores for minimum wage because they could not apply the content of knowledge learned in college. The state I live in requires people who "earned" a law degree enroll in mandatory CLEP (Continuing legal education programs). The Judges they appear before are frustrated with the lack of procedural knowledge the new "attorneys" have when standing before the bar.

I mentored many college and law school graduates to transform them from "graduates" to "professionals" who knew their values and goals and were confident enough to perform. From the papers they wrote, many of the graduates thought grammar was an old lady that gave birth to their mothers.

LOL!

It's absolutely true that a college degree doesn't guarantee that one knows what one's doing. Which goes to the point I made in my post. I have only a two-year degree in Communications and Media Arts, and am a professional copywriter and editor. I've been a supervising editor to writers with master's degrees. Many of them didn't have anywhere near the grasp of the language they should have. Some did, some didn't. My point being that my high-school and community-college educations gave me the tools I needed to succeed in my profession. Even without college, I would have learned (in public elementary and high school), the grammar required to write a narrative in correct English. My college courses certainly refreshed my prior learning, refined my writing skills, and taught me how to write for different media and different audiences.

So, when people think you need a college degree in order to write a report in grammatically correct English, that's a fallacy.

@risinghorizon wrote:

I got a "9" because I had to be contacted. The name was neutral and I had to explain that the gender in my report was correct.

I think this type of thing is BS. Were you supposed to explain that the name was gender-neutral to prevent being contacted? Are we supposed to be mind readers?

I just did a shop that asked if there was a pleasing closing. The employee told me my food was being made fresh and they'd call my name when it was ready, and that's what I put in the report, in quotes. But because I didn't specifically say she didn't say anything else, my "no" answer wasn't explained. This type of nitpicking makes me a little crazy.

@amberngriffinco wrote:

These MSC's should state you MUST have college.

I don't think that would help. In my non-shopping life, I deal with college students several days a week and I find myself cringing at some of the things they write. "Anyways" is probably the one that grates on me the most.

@Delizzy wrote:

@amberngriffinco wrote:

These MSC's should state you MUST have college.

I don't think that would help. In my non-shopping life, I deal with college students several days a week and I find myself cringing at some of the things they write. "Anyways" is probably the one that grates on me the most.

How I hate "anyways"! Probably the grammar error that drives me over the edge more than any other is when people write "everyday" instead of "every day" (thus my signature line!). "I pass the location everyday." Arrgghh!!!!! And then there's "irregardless." Double arrgghh. And I don't know why people have started dropping the "ed" on the end of words. Recently I've seen many examples of suppose instead of supposed, cover instead of covered, pass instead of passed, etc. Where did the "ed" go?

Delizzy, you're so right about a college education not necessarily guaranteeing that someone can produce a grammatically correct piece of writing.

OTH, basic grammar is something we all learn, is all we need to know in order to write a correct narrative (we just need to remember it and use it), and is really not that difficult! It's not as if we have to write a doctoral dissertation or research paper. We just need to spell properly, use correct tense and word forms, and correct punctuation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2016 08:41PM by BirdyC.

How about prolly instead of probably? Or wensday instead of Wednesday?

I am guilty of "-ish" all of the time! LOL

Speaking it is one thing, but writing it is another...

When I was studying in the graduate school, many members of our group were in the medical field. One doctor had atrocious English that we wondered how he could be at the top of his class.

@Delizzy wrote:

@amberngriffinco wrote:

. "Anyways" is probably the one that grates on me the most.

For me add loose instead of lose.
I recently saw an ad for an editor. The stated pay was $8-$10 an hour for a job that required the person to be available at all hours and no promise of a steady paycheck. I suspect there are many editors out there who have a fabulous grasp of grammar but since the industry must need thousands of editors I can only imagine they cannot fill all the spots necessary with wonderful editors. For all I know the person who edited my last job just got fired for poor performance. Perhaps they go through editors like they go through mystery shoppers in companies that only require you to be breathing to be hired.

There is one MSC I've done shops for that advertises every few months for an editor. The pay is so pitiful all I can do is LMAO when I get the e-mails. Not only do you need to have an excellent command of the language, but you need to know and understand what to look for in terms of content. I make more doing straight proofreading (which isn't rocket science) and very light copy editing than they want to pay editors in this field!

Yes, and they want you to make a commitment to work 6 or 7 days per week.

I received an e-mail yesterday from an editor who complimented my work asked that I provide one expanded summary. Imagine my surprise when I received my score today from another editor who gave me a 77%. The “editor” said comments aren’t required in comment boxes, comments are only required for “No” answers, comments can be only three to five words in length and comments are to be written lowercase without punctuation. Funny the previous editor didn’t mention my comments being a problem. Even funnier that the sample evaluation gives this example: “Comment: The restaurant was slow during the majority of the evaluation, but business picked up to a steady pace towards the end.” So, here we have not only a comment in a comment box, but capitalization and punctuation. And, did I just read a complete sentence?! I have challenged the score.

I think these companies mistakenly call their proofreaders “editors.” But wait, this "editor" neither edited nor proofread.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2016 05:41AM by supersavvymommy.

@supersavvymommy wrote:

I received an e-mail yesterday from an editor who complimented my work asked that I provide one expanded summary. Imagine my surprise when I received my score today from another editor who gave me a 77%. The “editor” said comments aren’t required in comment boxes, comments are only required for “No” answers, comments can be only three to five words in length and comments are to be written lowercase without punctuation. Funny the previous editor didn’t mention my comments being a problem. Even funnier that the sample evaluation gives this example: “Comment: The restaurant was slow during the majority of the evaluation, but business picked up to a steady pace towards the end.” So, here we have not only a comment in a comment box, but capitalization and punctuation. And, did I just read a complete sentence?! I have challenged the score.

Three to five words: No means no.

A 9 is the same thing as a 10. It pays the same. Your not going to loose a future shop for having a 9.

Anyone who is fretting over getting an A instead of an A+ grade is overthinking things IMHO. This is not High School and your not fighting for a coveted placement in an elite higher learning institution.

I have used words that the editor may not fully understand in certain jobs and was knocked down to a nine.
Just look for the payment and keep chugging along.

Leave the overworked schedulers and editors to move on to give you an 8 next time for no rhyme or reason!

I don't ask why, unless it's a 7 and there are no comments. I'm only kidding, as I have never received a 7 before on a Sassie shop!

@risinghorizon wrote:

When I was studying in the graduate school, many members of our group were in the medical field. One doctor had atrocious English that we wondered how he could be at the top of his class.

It is easy. Yogi Berra did it and Will Rogers did it many others who know how to communicate do it. They listen to the people they are communicating with and fall into their cadence either voluntarily or involuntary the result is the same. You enjoy the flavor of the sound and the message. You hear or read, "You are one of us" . Grammar is just an old lady that gave birth to your mother.

@supersavvymommy wrote:

I think these companies mistakenly call their proofreaders “editors.” But wait, this "editor" neither edited nor proofread.

Half of them aren't even proofreaders. At least with any training in the field.

@risinghorizon wrote:

When I was studying in the graduate school, many members of our group were in the medical field. One doctor had atrocious English that we wondered how he could be at the top of his class.

I once worked for a pulmonologist who spelled phlegm as flim! How badly I wanted to correct him, but he signed my paycheck.

Lol - that would bother me so much!

My score was reevaluated and changed from 77.78% to 80.56%. I would have liked an even higher score, but they responded and timely considered my request. The response, "I agree that your narratives read smoothly and did not contain tangents..."

@scanman1 wrote:

Anyone who is fretting over getting an A instead of an A+ grade is overthinking things IMHO. This is not High School and your not fighting for a coveted placement in an elite higher learning institution.

For some, the point isn't about grading or nit-picky editors. One of my points, in particular, is that I can't believe how many people are so dismissive of correct grammar. If you're being paid to write an accurate and grammatically correct report, then that's what you (the collective "you" ) should do. Basic grammar isn't rocket science, and that's pretty much all anybody needs to know in order to produce a good report. So, not everybody's going to know what a compound adjective is, and it may not really matter. You may not remember what "homonym" means, and that's fine. But you should know which homonym to use, even if you don't know the term.

Not everybody needs to know how to spell onomatopoeia.

But it's/its, you're/your, loose/lose, there/their/they're, every day/everyday, alot (no such word)/a lot, suppose/supposed, then/than, and so forth are things every shopper should know. And we shouldn't complain when we get marked down for incorrect usage.

And, as many of us do complain about, it's really annoying when an editor changes something that was correct in a report to something that's not correct. That's what happens sometimes when we get downgraded. That's one of the issues--nobody wants to get a 9 instead of a 10 because the editor screwed up. Is it a big deal? No, and yes, some shoppers make too much of it.

But the disregard many shoppers seem to have for correct grammar is amazing.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2016 09:58PM by BirdyC.

@scanman1 wrote:

... Your not going to loose a future shop for having a 9...

Ha! I see what you did there.

SSMommy, was that Coyle in the new Shop Metrics platform?