The mystery shopping industry has seen its ebbs and flows. Companies have come and gone and others hang around. Some that have been around for a long time have done so by surviving, not by providing the best service. There are a few outstanding players in the realm of mystery shopping but overall the standards are low for the companies that exist. There are some associations but they do not represent mystery shoppers. Shoppers are independent contractors, small business owners but often treated like employees or even slaves at the beckon whim of the scheduler and mystery shopping company. Don't get me wrong there are some bad shoppers also but has this industry ever calculated the actual cost of recruiting a new mystery shopper. I doubt it. They see numbers of people who will do any job because they need the money and they seize upon taking advantage. Mystery shoppers need to be represented just like any other group in any other profession that has associations and organizations representing them and no I am not talking about a union. Instead I am talking about a union of shoppers, an association for and by shoppers to counter the often misguided and low standards the mystery shopping industry portrays. A professional standard to be set for both shoppers and the industry. A place for an exchange of ideas and war stories or just to vent. A place schedulers, editors and companies are rated. Is this the place?

I have looked through post and seen where shoppers are attacked. I see some constructive feedback but shake my head when I see someone question the questions a person asks or shows a lack of compassion and basic human decency. It is ironic that an industry that is used to show performance levels of various customer service experiences often demonstrates the lack of understanding of what customer service is. How would most MSC's fair if a survey was done concerning the customer service experience that mystery shopper's have and the overall feedback that corporations receive? I surmise that most mystery shopping companies would fair poorly and that is being generous. Pay issues, editors who lack basic grammar skills, schedulers who are vindictive and in humane, and companies that just do not care as long as they get paid. I've had experiences with excellent editors, schedulers and some descent companies but it has changed and is getting worse. Who represents you? What is your experience? What are your suggestions? What are your thoughts?

i am all for a "law" that each and every (yes, each and every) msc, scheduler and editor must (yes, must) be required (yes, be required) to complete in real time the exact shop that they have contracted for.

they might then see that the fee being offered doesn't quite meet the degree of professionalism that is required. and...maybe, just maybe the guidelines need some clarification. big surprise, eh.

but then again, unfortunately there are wayyy tooo many shoppers who snap up the low-hanging fruit = the $6.00 fees to "dine" at mcdonalds and lots of other type assignments.

wtf "dine" ???? it's "eat" their calorie-laden, artery-clogging (insert your noun as i just can't bring myself to use the term "food" for this).

the fees that are offered and subsequently accepted are commensurate with the degree of professionalism that the shopper brings to the table. take a $6.00 shop and that defines you.

yep, you know who you are and yep, i'm looking at you.

"we have met the enemy and he is us" (attribution to Pogo).

collectively we are a bunch of pussies who refuse to "just say no" to those companies who refuse to value and acknowledge that we, the "boots on the ground", are the ones that should be coddled, catered-to and profusely thanked instead of continually being asked to prostitute ourselves for things like the "$6.00 mcdonalds dining" evaluation (with 2 shops in 1...drive thru and "dine" in).

i applaud those shoppers on this forum who use their registered-to-mscs/schedulers e-mail address and don't hide behind the cloak of anonymity for fear of being dropped/deactivated, etc or discriminated against by speaking out. if you're the kind of shopper that's an asset to them they would recognize your value.

grow a pair, folks.

"hero citations" = wtf is that all about.

"urgent and now a bonus" (additional $3.00) = wtf...$3.00 ???????

yep, i know that i've been on this campaign for a while and it's probably tiresome and i'll hear the same tired justification for taking the kinds of shops that i ridicule but so be it.

any thoughts just fire away and i have the kind of skin that makes a rhinoceros' look thin.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2016 03:34PM by parkcitybrian.

Have you ever heard the phrase paradigm shift?

This entire thread is representative of what happens when people who are mystery shoppers act as if they are employees of the MSC's or customers of the MSC's when in actuality the MSC is your customer.

Think of it like this. If you ran a store that sold apples. You sell big apples and little apples and all flavors and types. What happens when a customer comes in and only wants to give you $1 for your apple and you want $2 for it. You tell them no and move on to the next customer. Or you try to negotiate a price that you're more comfortable with. Or you simply say I'm sorry I need $2 for my apple.

This attitude is more akin to a customer coming into your apple store and offering you $1 and you feeling like you have to take that $1. Then getting mad and contacting all of the apple stores in the country and saying OMG we need an apple store group because these horrible customers won't pay enough for our apples! WE SHOULD MAKE THEM PAY WHAT WE WANT!!!!

Find a way to sell your apples at a rate that you make a profit and the customer is ok with. Or you find something else to do. You are not an employee and you are not a customer. You are a service provider and the MSC is your client. You can choose to find new clients. Or you can choose to find a way to make what the clients you have work for you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2016 04:14PM by bgriffin.

@bgriffin wrote:

Find a way to sell your apples at a rate that you make a profit and the customer is ok with. Or you find something else to do. You are not an employee and you are not a customer. You are a service provider and the MSC is your client. You can choose to find new clients. Or you can choose to find a way to make what the clients you have work for you.

Great post, bgriffin!

For a tl;dr version of it, there you guys go!

/thread

I think of this forum is a kind of shoppers association, in that it provides an excellent resource, giving shoppers information, suggestions, outright help in some situations. Information is volunteered by experienced shoppers, ( and may be colored by opinion.) We can only represent ourselves in our decisions and performance. We chose, we are not obligated to accept any offer. Read, research, react according to your situation. Standards among the MSC's would be really nice, but unenforceable. Same with the shoppers, some people will go the extra yard, others will do just enough to get by.
Independent is the key word in I.C.

@jdp27 wrote:

Has this industry ever calculated the actual cost of recruiting a new mystery shopper?

The union concept seems to rear it's head once or twice a year here and always ends with the realization that we are not employees, so it's not possible. bgriffin is pretty well on target with his analogy.

As far as the cost of recruiting shoppers goes; Your assumption that MSCs don't have any concept of it just adds to what appears to be a large misconception about the industry. Most company owners have a very specific concept of what each shopper costs to recruit, train and pay. They spend a great deal of time worrying about it. I have been privy to numerous conversation and calculations about the costs vs. advantages of MSCs taking part in shopper events (and that the price per shopper for recruiting at them takes YEARS to pay back).

The entire concept of banding together and demanding fair wages is predicated on the idea the MSCs are reaping large profits off of our hard work, but the reality is that it's a tough industry. Most owners, schedulers, edits and everyone else involved work hard for their meager pay as well.

>"Think of it like this. If you ran a store that sold apples. You sell big apples and little apples and all flavors and types. What happens when a customer comes in and only wants to give you $1 for your apple and you want $2 for it. You tell them no and move on to the next customer. Or you try to negotiate a price that you're more comfortable with. Or you simply say I'm sorry I need $2 for my apple."
`````````

Does this include Granny Smith Apples?

[healthyeating.sfgate.com]

Beware of free apples. Remember Sleeping Beauty? Adam and Eve?
Apples, the fruit of all evil.

@parkcitybrian wrote:

i am all for a "law" that each and every (yes, each and every) msc, scheduler and editor must (yes, must) be required (yes, be required) to complete in real time the exact shop that they have contracted for.

they might then see that the fee being offered doesn't quite meet the degree of professionalism that is required. and...maybe, just maybe the guidelines need some clarification. big surprise, eh.

I agree. And it's not just the degree of professionalism required; it's the time required as well. Many shops simply require more time than "advertised," regardless of how they're done (meeting basic requirements or going above and beyond). But many require more time in order to achieve the degree of professionalism the nature of the shop calls for.

This type of thread always raises the hackles on the back of my neck.

I seriously understand the frustration.

But the problem is we all work in different areas, demographics and may have some heavy competition for work.

We are not employees. And for that I'm extremely thankful. I do not have to work for a MSC or a scheduler that's only worried about the bottom line.

I have the privilege of working for scheduler's and MSC's that didn't force me on the road last week, because they value a live shopper over a dead one. (I live in TX & it has flooded everywhere I normally drive.)

Do I get bent because the job requires more work than advetised? Heck yeah! I put it in my needs to be bonused list, unless it's a great fill in for a route.

I. do. not. ever. have to take on any shop...I don't want. It's the beauty of this business.

I'm guilty of taking the $9 Aldi shop because I was going there anyway. Nine dollars goes a long way at that store.

@JASFLALMT wrote:

I'm guilty of taking the $9 Aldi shop because I was going there anyway. Nine dollars goes a long way at that store.

Ditto that for me too. I am in there at least once a week for groceries and the report is simple so I don't mind taking it at "my" Aldi even when un-bonused.

They get snapped up fast in my area and I have never seen one bonused.

I did one for $14 fee plus $5 reimbursement a month or two ago, I think it must have been a last minute flake out because it popped up right at the end of the month. $19 buys half a cart of groceries at Aldi so I was happy.

Oh I am envious, good for you!

Certified Financial Planners, Certified Public Accountants, Certified Addiction Counselors, Certified Mental Health Counselors, Locksmith, Contractor's, Plumbers, Mechanics, Landscapers etc are all often independent business owners/IC's. Each are represented by associations to promote professionalism, ethics, integrity, growth, and benefit to the members. A lot of these people are not employees to include the many friends that I have that work in their own law practices. Some people on here attack others and belittle others for whatever useless reason except to fulfill their own narcissistic needs of self-importance or report to the MSC they are employees of or to ingratiate themselves for personal gain. When a person has a concern, an issue, or a basic gripe they should be able to express that and if you do not like it, go away. This forum lacks the free exchange of ideas so others can learn and improve. There are some thoughtful replies to post from people on here but there are a select number that are attack dogs. Back off! Stop feeling threatened by competition or just being an a_____. You fill in the blank.

The reason mystery shoppers are not represented by our own association supporting our growth, professionalism etc is because it is not in the best interest of the MSC's and too many people who claim to be mystery shoppers are threatened by this. The VFW and American Legion represent veterans and work toward the benefit of veterans and they are not a union. So many examples can be used to prove my point here. The short is that mystery shoppers working together, represented by a professional organization working on our behalf improve the standards in the profession overall and the industry. Agree or disagree but facts are facts. Cost accounting is essential to any business but too many MSC's see that there are enough people coming in the field that they can be as nasty as they want to and just move on to the next person. As I have stated before there are a few exceptions out there and they treat their shoppers with respect and those MSC's should be championed by their shoppers. If you are the best of the worst you are still the worst.

@jdp27 wrote:

Certified Financial Planners, Certified Public Accountants, Certified Addiction Counselors, Certified Mental Health Counselors, Locksmith, Contractor's, Plumbers, Mechanics, Landscapers etc are all often independent business owners/IC's. Each are represented by associations to promote professionalism, ethics, integrity, growth, and benefit to the members. A lot of these people are not employees to include the many friends that I have that work in their own law practices. Some people on here attack others and belittle others for whatever useless reason except to fulfill their own narcissistic needs of self-importance or report to the MSC they are employees of or to ingratiate themselves for personal gain. When a person has a concern, an issue, or a basic gripe they should be able to express that and if you do not like it, go away. This forum lacks the free exchange of ideas so others can learn and improve. There are some thoughtful replies to post from people on here but there are a select number that are attack dogs. Back off! Stop feeling threatened by competition or just being an a_____. You fill in the blank.

The reason mystery shoppers are not represented by our own association supporting our growth, professionalism etc is because it is not in the best interest of the MSC's and too many people who claim to be mystery shoppers are threatened by this. The VFW and American Legion represent veterans and work toward the benefit of veterans and they are not a union. So many examples can be used to prove my point here. The short is that mystery shoppers working together, represented by a professional organization working on our behalf improve the standards in the profession overall and the industry. Agree or disagree but facts are facts. Cost accounting is essential to any business but too many MSC's see that there are enough people coming in the field that they can be as nasty as they want to and just move on to the next person. As I have stated before there are a few exceptions out there and they treat their shoppers with respect and those MSC's should be championed by their shoppers. If you are the best of the worst you are still the worst.

Well-thought-out posting.

"we have met the enemy & it is us" = pogo

I'll take a Five Guys' shop at base rate on occasion if I'm craving a burger and it's not end-of-the-shopping-week bonus time.... But usually I can hold out until I get a bonus!

But, seriously, I do think that editors, schedulers, and project managers should have to do each shop that they're responsible for so they know what we really do go through to get a shop done. Well, why stop there? Since it seems that many MSCs are smaller firms, maybe the principals of each should do each shop their companies handle. I know that some schedulers and editors also shop, and they seem to "get it" more than some others when there are problems encountered on a shop.

There are 3 Mystery Shopping companies that I've had to have an attorney send a letter to regarding non-payment of invoice for services rendered. All 3 paid and none of them cancelled me as a shopper. It's not as scary as it seems to demand respect. Except on this forum, of course.

@jdp27

I have a few questions for you:

Please explain what you would like this organization to achieve and how. For what purpose would any MSC listen to them? There are hundreds of thousands of shoppers. Even if you got half to join this organization there would still be so many shoppers that the biggest companies, which generally speaking are the "bad" ones, still have plenty of shoppers to do their work. The "good" ones wouldn't feel threatened by such an organization because they are already doing the things this organization would "demand."

What is your basis for "demanding" the companies do certain things? As long as they ate not doing anything illegal there is no basis for forcing a company to use good business practices. Instead you should deal with companies that do use good business practices.

Please provide an example of why this forum is not a free exchange of ideas. It is lightly moderated and i have not seen an instance that i remember of someone telling someone else they couldn't say something that wasn't an ica violation. Or perhaps when people don't agree with your stance they are suppressing your opinion?

To add, the professional organizations you gave an example of are mostly groups of people that deal with individual customers. None of them try to force their customers to pay a certain amount or any of the other things you want to demand of the MSCs.

No one. I think this forum is great at giving advice on companies to work with and companies to avoid.

@MA Smith wrote:

I put it in my needs to be bonused list, unless it's a great fill in for a route..

That list is a great idea. I probably have it in my head, but didn't think to actually make a list.

There is an association working for the shoppers, the Independent Mystery Shoppers Coalition (IMSC). It is a fairly new organization, launching 7 years ago. The IMSC is not a perfect organization but it does a few things very well - education, opportunities, and advice. Much like this forum, but in even more real time often, the IMSC has Facebook groups that allows connect between shoppers to many schedulers via messenger.

The IMSC runs at least annually a conference with shoppers, schedulers, editors, and owners of companies offering presentations on almost every facet of mystery shopping you could think of. However, it is MUCH more than that - it is an opportunity to hang out with and talk with the owners and schedulers of many companies. You, them, one on one. I have seen changes in some of these companies in their shops, pay, instructions, scheduling platforms, etc, after myself and others have suggested things at these conferences. Many of these companies don't even know what we want changed until we tell them.

I strongly recommend everyone go to at least one of these conferences. I've made contacts from the ones I attended in 2010 and 2011 that I still use today, and when I returned to the conference this year made a whole new set of contacts.

The IMSC also has many schedulers and owners they talk with and they have helped fix some problems with shops, both individually and as a whole, that way. So it is out there, and the more of us that join and get involved the better we can make this industry!

First, I'm not demanding companies do anything. Nice deflection though bgriffin. I started a thread to prove a point. I belong to one of the organizations I listed previously. We do demand customers pay a certain price when they use our services. We establish price, inform the customer of the price, and they choose to pay the price. These organizations I indicated are in place to improve the standards overall and provide opportunities for professional development. These groups that you indicated are there and have more influence on the profession they are in. They also have more influence over government regulations and activities in their profession. Together they have more influence than an individual. They are not unions in any sense of the form but are the anti-union that works together for the betterment of their profession. I realize some do not want mystery shoppers to be united because it means improved standards for shoppers, more influence by shoppers, and better development of shoppers and some would be threatened by the improved competition and quality of the shopper. This includes MSC's and mystery shoppers.

To your point that it would be pointless and have no influence is not completely true. Such an association would have the impact it's members want it to have and how active they are. Bar associations are quite influential and yet there are many, many lawyers. AARP is quite influential and there are many, many seniors who are not members of it. Realtors are quite influential in their professions and there are many, many realtors. Truckers belong to associations and have influence as well and many are independent.

There is a thread that was recently started by a new person on here that was complaining about not being paid by an MSC and some of the members started belittling the person and indicated they were taking over the thread. They did. A new person is here to learn not to be attacked. I am new to the forum but not new to this. If you wish I will go and look the thread up and post it here. I replied on that thread to those that hijacked the thread. This is the example you asked for.

I agree with you the bigger MSC's are usually the worst ones. We have agreement here. Despite the MSC's having their own associations the standards are rather poor. A true professional organization that acts as the clearinghouse or governing body, not union or government, gives MSC's and mystery shoppers an outlet to handle ludicrous and unethical business practices. It also gives the companies who pay the MSC's confidence in the work they pay for. Many of the organizations I previously mentioned and so many more are self-governing and provide a civilized outlet to handle individual and corporate concerns. We can all agree there are bad MSC's, there are bad schedulers, there are bad editors, and there are bad mystery shoppers (or those who just do not understand). An organization representing all sides in a professional manner would benefit an industry before it is regulated and it will end up being regulated eventually. The reason it has not been regulated is because it has been under the radar screen but that is changing. It would be nice if every shopper could make $100 per shop and the shop take only 30 minutes for everything but that is not realistic and not what this is about. Each person should operate as a small business owner but small business owners have representation depending upon their business.

If you don't like the shops, don't do them. If you don't like what the shops pay, don't do them. If you don't like how the industry is run, don't shop. Simple as that. The business is not what it used to be, and yes, big MS companies get away with low fees because people take them. For me, it all evens out in the end - I work because I can and I like it, not because I need to.

PS - I blame Bernie Sanders for this post.

Way too deep. It just a gig to get extra, some shops pay well some dont, it depends on why you shop. Way too deep.

@jdp27

You still didn't answer my question.

Please provide an example of what this organization would do.

IE. If bgriffin said MarketForce is a big pile of @#$%& MSC and MF said bgriffin is a big pile of @#$%& shopper, they go in and determine which is a bigger pile of @#$%&?

I don't work well with broad strokes. They'll work towards bettering the industry is just a bunch of fluff words for me.

I'm interested in how an organization demands customers pay a particular price. I'd like a little better explanation of that.

I took a few minutes to research some of the organizations you mentioned. There's the Society of Professional Locksmiths, who's "about" section sounds a whole like all these fluff words you keep using but never ever do I see anywhere on their website that if I need new locks keyed and I call up my local locksmith to do it that I cI an't say "Hey I'll give you $5 a lock" without the Society of Professional Locksmiths popping in and saying "YOU CAN"T OFFER $5, WE ARE GOING TO FORCE YOU TO OFFER $7."

As for shoppers complaining about not being paid, what would you prefer people do? Agree with the poster that didn't get paid because they didn't do something right just because we're both shoppers and should be united against the evil MSCs?

I think perhaps you are failing at getting the idea of this "organization" across, at least to me, probably for a few others. I also don't understand why you don't just start one if you feel like it is needed. Nor do I understand why you feel it is needed. From what I understand you think that MSC's do bad things and we should ban against them. That's all I can see.

Personally I prefer to develop good relationships with good people who provide me with good pay for the good work I do. Are their crap clients out there? Absolutely. But I don't understand trying to force crap clients to be good clients when instead you could just go find good clients. I did about $8000 of work in May. I didn't have a single argument with a single one of the MSCs. I feel like all of them paid me fairly for the work I did and considering I have already been asked by every single one of them to do more work for them I'm going to guess they're happy with my work. I guess I fail to see what is so horrible that there needs to be some group that tries to intervene on my behalf. I don't need any intervening. If I can find that much work in a single month with good companies, why do you seem to be stuck with the bad ones that need fixing? Does that say more about the industry or our approach to our businesses?

I answered your question. What company are you an employee of?

Our thoughts were solicited in the original post so I will answer it. Your post was my post when I first jumped from what my husband would call "Captive Labor" to Independent Contractor. I couldn't see why Schedulers couldn't simply do their jobs quickly, efficiently, fairly and politely. Edits should be timely, unflawed and polite. Company Owners should care about their shoppers views and use them in their planning and execution. Last, shopper organizations should be looking out for shoppers first and their ties with industry partners second.

Here's what I think 12 years later: Schedulers are often underpaid themselves and they are often under the gun to get jobs filled with very little to offer shoppers. They often report to unreasonable bosses who don't care about their troubles and certainly not ours. Editors are paid very little and have to produce a great deal of edits within a short period of time. Many seem to be English Majors who are not aquainted with practical English, have never read the Shopper Instructions and do not know how to ask nicely. Company Owners or High Level Managers run for profit marketing and research companies. The goal is profit and they had a very tough time acheiving this during the "Great Recession" of 08' to 14" and beyond. During this time, shops were fewer, fees were reduced, Schedulers and Editors were laid off and their pay was reduced. We saw companies combining to either stay aflot or for simple shark action. We also saw companies continuing the reduced pay even after things got better because they could. They could because shoppers accepted assignments at that pay. I see all of this as the real world of being an IC. v. a "Captive Employee" whereas every improper behavior could be reported to the HR Department and the employee would feel some sort of control. But we have none.

We have given that up for the freedom that we enjoy as non captive employees. I find real gems in many Schedulers, Editors, Managers & Owners...........the ones who have taken care of one-another during tough times and treated others with respect throughout. Those are the ones I stick with and go the extra mile for. I also remember the ones who tried to take advantage of me during hard times and continue to try to extend those savings to present.

jdp27: Here is where I feel the ball has been dropped for shoppers and as you eluded to. There are entities/organizations/websites/software platform owners who claim to represent us but do not because they are in bed with one-another toward pure profit on the backs of shoppers. This site is not one of them. Many shoppers have suggested that simple programs be offered such as a shopper pool paid legal fund to defend against company legal wrongdoings. Why not also try to pool healthcare costs as a group,etc. In this sense, we are ignored by the organization that "represents us". They do put on a very nice conference though.