This constant fighting with MS owners is making me think, "How seriously should we take the forum's". I appreciate owners giving out information to shoppers. Personal problems certain shoppers have with owners should be resolved and pass. There seems to be grudge holding, so, how seriously do we take posts on the forums.....I only found the forum years after shopping, and learned myself. The forum is a place to vent, learn and whatever motive you have, but, how much do we really learn.....everyone's veiw is so different.

I believe that this forum is a good way for shoppers, whether brand new or of many years' experience to learn and share both the good and bad of whay they come across. I have noticed that a shopper can sometimes sniff out a company in trouble before it becomes common knowledge, especially whem many have had the same issues with someone. I also believe that we ought to take what a company owner says with a big grain of salt or the entire salt shaker if need be. No owner is going to admit that there is anything wrong with his/her company even if our experiences prove that they have been unscrupulous beyond a reasonable doubt. There is an owner currently harassing people through private messages and other tactics that definitely cast doubts upon their integrity among other things. I've been out here in the trenches of mystery shopping for 16 years now and have seen the shenanigans of many companies, many of which are no longer in business after bilking shoppers out of fees and more. There are many companies for whom I refuse to shop ever again and it's a matter of live and learn sometimes.

I agree with both Cettie and Irene. I appreciate when MS owners give a limited amount of information on the forum. BUT... I DO NOT appreciate when owners come in to argue with shopper posts. I come here to interact with other shoppers, not MSPs. A very experienced shopper, who I think of as something of a mentor, once said that the forum is the mystery shopping equivalent of an employee breakroom. I totally agree. Mystery shopping is a pretty solitary experience. After a hard day at my fulltime job and a couple of shops and completed reports, I like to stop by the breakroom/forum for a quick break to visit with my co-shoppers. While I don't mind an MSP employee, whether owner, scheduler, editor, or whatever, coming through the breakroom to pick up a soda while they are on break, greeting me pleasantly as they walk by, I'm not pleased to have them walk up and sit down at my table. As far as how serious to take comments on the forum, I'm not so dumb that I take every shopper comment as gospel, nor do I, hearing a bad experience from one shopper, decide that the MSP in question is all bad. And I also don't take everything a company says as gospel. I do think, however, that a company that feels they have to watch and listen constantly so that they can rush in to argue about any negative comment made is waving a big red flag. IMHO the company is validating negative comments by showing shoppers that the comments are significant enough to turn into an argument, and, whether the company is right or wrong, the company looks bad and looks petty. I come here to visit with other shoppers, not MSPs. Do the MSPs not have a forum or network for sharing and visiting among themselves, maybe through the MSPA, where shoppers do not go? Since I have never seen shoppers invited to any MSP forums, I guess I really don't know for sure....??? Just IMHO, and maybe I am the only shopper who comes here to meet and visit with other shoppers.........

Great response's from both Cettie and AM....I too come here to check in with other shoppers, pick up tips about Co's., and relate about our industry. This is a lonely job, so, taking it with a grain of salt, and perhaps learning something along the way is beneficial. Connecting and making a friend in the process is a good thing!!! Thanks Steve for all your help!!! The other forum for me was a disaster, mean girls all the way, with a leader that was the same biased and clicky...this one is so much better.

AustinMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since I have never seen
> shoppers invited to any MSP forums, I guess I
> really don't know for sure....??? Just IMHO, and
> maybe I am the only shopper who comes here to meet
> and visit with other shoppers.........

Yea, I totally agree. I prefer shoppers. :-) I mean, they have their own places to talk to each other, and I don't see any of us being able to go spread our opinions there. I am not too interested in having MSC's continually comment here.

I can see both sides of it. While I like the insight of the MSC owners and appreciate that they take the time to post most of the time - it does seem like a lot of petty personal stuff gets posted on the boards, and this might make some people hesitant to post and share - which is not good.

But also recognize that some of us have been on both sides of the proverbial fence. For example,I have been a client and an editor - but I am also a shopper. Even when I was an editor, I was not an employee and I shopped for other companies. I guess I identify more with shoppers than companies, although I have a couple of people I consider friends that are owners/principals in the mystery shopping business. I have gotten a lot out this board and those that post here (both Dee and Steve come to mind immediately as people who have been invaluable to me in different ways) and I would hate to see it blow up and go the way of other boards in the past... usually when things start getting personal - either it blows over, or it doesn't. Hopefully this blows over...

I think you should pick and choose the information you use. Not all information is useful to the next person. For example...The fact that Kentucky has plenty of shops is not helpful to me because I don't live there. I pick the information that I use and I try to offer what I think may be useful. In regards to the owners coming on here and blasting away.

Like Dee's quote says "When your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt."

The top companies are not on here defending themselves so what does that say.

My $.05.

MickeyB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> But also recognize that some of us have been on
> both sides of the proverbial fence. For example,I
> have been a client and an editor - but I am also a
> shopper. Even when I was an editor, I was not an
> employee and I shopped for other companies. I
> guess I identify more with shoppers than
> companies, although I have a couple of people I
> consider friends that are owners/principals in the
> mystery shopping business. I have gotten a lot out
> this board and those that post here (both Dee and
> Steve come to mind immediately as people who have
> been invaluable to me in different ways) and I
> would hate to see it blow up and go the way of
> other boards in the past... usually when things
> start getting personal - either it blows over, or
> it doesn't. Hopefully this blows over...

But what I have seen from you, here and other forums, is that you post as a SHOPPER. When you add an opinion from your other points of view, you always qualify it. The MSPA folks just blast their thoughts, and in many cases, try to stifle conversations they do not agree with. I have never seen you do that anywhere. I value your opinion.

I have no particular beef with any posters here, either MSC or shopper, and have made good associations on both sides with many of you. The point of this thread is an important one in that it helps define the purpose of this board. Is this a shopper support board, a shopper education board, a networking board, etc...

My personal opinion is that there too much "Mystery" in mystery shopping. I know that may sound ridiculous, but the covert nature of the job and attempts to quell any discussion of it leads to a lot of the apparent skulduggery we hear about.

I would love to see a place where Joe shopper could ask a simple question about a shop and get a simple answer from a MSC owner, rather than an opinion from another shopper that may or may not be accurate....which then results in a 2-page thread, and arguments back and forth.

For that purpose, we should take the postings seriously, IMHO, because this is a serious business, and the livelihood of many here rely on it staying operational. When the comments on these boards are professional, the respect for this community will grow and that will attract the interest of both the shoppers and MSC owners that we like to interact with.

It seems that Jacob has not set a particular direction for the board and the community of participants decide the direction here, which is something I appreciate. That being the case, can we just move this in the direction of creating a place for all to join in on a professional discussion, and perhaps drop the 'cloak & dagger' attitude when not required?

That comment is directed at both shoppers and MSC owners, BTW. I respect you all. Let's just take a deep breath.....

I'm in the rare position of having been a shopper, MSC executive, freelance scheduler and editor. I have chosen for numerous reasons that I have previously discussed to be strictly a shopper these days, but I feel my experiences and opinions have for the most part been respected here. I guess that's because I have absolutely nothing to gain financially from my participation here.

Let me also add that when I say "take the conversation seriously", I do not mean we should not see the humor in much of what goes on or stop joking about it. I'm usually the first one to make fun of any situation. I mean serious in the sense that Shopper A needs to understand that MSC owner B puts food on the table for their children via their business, and MSC owner C needs to understand that shopper D expects fair remuneration for their work (which may be putting food on the plate for their children, significant others, kittens or puppies). It's a win/win scenario when it works.

I have to disagree, Steve. I would not mind if there was a new, "ask the MSC" section...but I am SO SO SO uninterested in coming here to rub elbows with owners and management of companies. But that is me.

Dee...you don't have to respond to them, a pm might work best for you.

Irene_L.A. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dee...you don't have to respond to them, a pm
> might work best for you.


I am well aware of the fact that I do not NEED to respond to anyone posting anywhere, Irene. The point I was trying to get across was that I am basically truly not interested in having them play here. At all.

dee shops Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have to disagree, Steve. I would not mind if
> there was a new, "ask the MSC" section...but I am
> SO SO SO uninterested in coming here to rub elbows
> with owners and management of companies. But that
> is me.


I hear that, dee, and it's fine to disagree.

I've always felt it would be nice to have an area where all could meet and avoid the 'us & them' factor between shoppers and MSCs.

I don't really know if that could happen in a civil manner, but I think it would be nice. That's all.

I wouldn't mind seeing a place where both shoppers and MSCs can interact and ask questions of each other. But I would prefer that be separate. I'd like to have a shopper place where shoppers can communicate with other shoppers. I'm thinking that, through MSPA, the MSCs have a peer group and a way to communicate among themselves. I think it would be nice to have a shopper place.

The perfect solution would be to have a special thread for the two of us....maybe it is a little unfair to have them post here when it supposed to be for shoppers. I personally would like feedback from them, but in a more controled way. Jacob, are you listening....

I have thought about this a lot before posting, and I believe I support Steve's vision - a breaking down of the 'us and them' and a more professional discussion about a business that is inherently solitary and isolating.

However, there are a LOT of barriers to breaking this down into that vision:

There are so many misconceptions about the "other side" from both shoppers and MSCs. Shoppers often think that all MSCs are out to get them, making a killing in margins and profit at their expense, and out to use and abuse the shopper every chance they get. On the other hand, MSCs sterotype shoppers as shoot from the hip renegades that have to be controlled and managed as a necessary evil instead of respected and valued for their skill and contribution to this business.

Getting past this and developing a healthy respect and appreciation for each side seems to me to only be benefiting both sides. I seriously cringe each time I see a shopper post an intelligent debate disagreeing with the party line. It often seems that those dissenting views (which I will admit, often I also disagree with, but that is what makes this world go round - differing viewpoints) are treated gestapo style instead of as they were intended - intelligent debate. It is no wonder some people have had enough and want to limit this board to just a certain group. While I understand why people would want this, because it so often is reduced (unnecessarily) to the personal level - I think it is a shame that we have even come to this discussion.

The other thing I have to point out - there are really only 3 different company representatives posting regularly here (that I have seen anyway)... hardly indicative of the MSC population as a whole.

Correct on all counts. Which is why, perhaps, the MSPA would do well to set forth a forum for such interactions in a moderated manner and leave a forum such as this to be a SHOPPER forum. The number and quality of PMs I get from new shoppers who are leery about posting here is very discouraging. What I found enchanting about this forum when I joined was that it was focused on helping new shoppers be the best they could be. I saw that as a very worthy use of my time and energy because in hopefully encouraging shoppers to do it right we could all benefit.

I don't dislike MSC's and I definitely do not believe they are making anything close to a killing. I have good relationships with quite a number of MSC's and a healthy respect for those people that work at those firms.

However, I am sick of MSC's being able to enter shopper to shopper conversations when we do not have the same option to interject our feedback into their discussions.

I would support somewhere where both sides are on equal footing, as a separate place of conversation. But as far as I am concerned, it is NOT here, and it should not be run by the MSPA, as we know how they as a group view shoppers, no matter what they have their mouthpieces come here and state.

Steve and Mickey would be ideal candidates to moderate such a venture. :-)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/23/2010 02:34AM by dee shops.

Building better relationship means conversations...trying to understand one another and learning what is on the other side. The shoppers that have been on both sides (scheduling and editing), have an advantage and understand what goes into the other side. I'd love to know more without being personal. When shoppers and owners can communicate, we'll have a better industry for both.

Wish we were allowed into an MSPA convention, that would break down friction and our feeling of not being supported. We really don't have a voice except each others, this needs to change, if MSing is to grow.

Well put, Irene!

Until we do have additional outlets, I am very glad for forums. When I see one person's negative review I do take it with a grain of salt, but several companies here have many voices sharing bad experiences. I am glad for the warning. I will not shop for companies that do not resolve these issues. Those that do resolve the issues, I shop for with caution.

I find it very inhibiting to have to watch every syllable I say because a cowboy MS company owner is ready to pounce if you so much as hiccup wrong. I avoid violation for that very reason, anything said there would result in a nasty e-mail from the owner.

Being able to engage in meaningful dialogue without fear of reprisal would be quite refreshing.

Cettie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Being able to engage in meaningful dialogue
> without fear of reprisal would be quite
> refreshing.

Both here, and at this new place some of us envision. Here, to be left alone. There, to be able to speak as peers without fear of reprisal. We can hope. I personally see it as a dream that has a tough time of being fulfilled. Distrust on both sides can only lead to more bad feelings, or defensiveness, all around. That is why here is not the right place, and the MSPA site is not the right place. Mickey and Steve? Are you listening?
Burgeoning moderators R U????

I feel I do say what I need to say...I recently tore an MSC to threads here, and didn't care if they chose to answer back (they didn't). I see your point, Dee and Flash, but there are only two companies I'm aware of that defend themself's on this forum. We still get our point across, and let them learn from what shoppers feel about late payments, poor editors, etc. Might be good to know how shoppers feel, and maybe, just maybe, they'll clean up their act.

dee shops Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cettie Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Being able to engage in meaningful dialogue
> > without fear of reprisal would be quite
> > refreshing.
>
> Both here, and at this new place some of us
> envision. Here, to be left alone. There, to be
> able to speak as peers without fear of reprisal.
> We can hope. I personally see it as a dream that
> has a tough time of being fulfilled. Distrust on
> both sides can only lead to more bad feelings, or
> defensiveness, all around. That is why here is
> not the right place, and the MSPA site is not the
> right place. Mickey and Steve? Are you
> listening?
> Burgeoning moderators R U????

Thanks for your confidence but I suck as a moderator. I moderated a military wives board about five years ago and eventually was asked to step down. I hate conflict and confrontation - and alas, those are inevitable in moderating.

Steve and Mickey (my two favorite posters), either of them have the time, or desire....I would guess!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2010 08:45PM by Irene_L.A..

MickeyB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dee shops Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cettie Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > Being able to engage in meaningful dialogue
> > > without fear of reprisal would be quite
> > > refreshing.
> >
> > Both here, and at this new place some of us
> > envision. Here, to be left alone. There, to
> be
> > able to speak as peers without fear of reprisal.
>
> > We can hope. I personally see it as a dream
> that
> > has a tough time of being fulfilled. Distrust
> on
> > both sides can only lead to more bad feelings,
> or
> > defensiveness, all around. That is why here is
> > not the right place, and the MSPA site is not
> the
> > right place. Mickey and Steve? Are you
> > listening?
> > Burgeoning moderators R U????
>
> Thanks for your confidence but I suck as a
> moderator. I moderated a military wives board
> about five years ago and eventually was asked to
> step down. I hate conflict and confrontation - and
> alas, those are inevitable in moderating.


Total bummer. But I understand. And I know you are really busy with the FT job and the amount of narrative heavy shops you do. I just thought that you and Steve would bring a GREAT ying/yang balance to something like this, that I don't think of anyone else to do.

I have found since joining this forum that my mystery shop salary has almost doubled from last year, just doing this part time.


Everyone has been so helpful when I needed suggestions.

I do agree with Irene, these companies who don't pay or pay so late, are not happy about having their names posted here. Maybe they will have difficulty
getting shoppers to do their work if they don't pay on time.

I too find that interacting with other shoppers in a forum environment both keeps me motivated and provides some new ideas and new companies. But also there is the information that a company I have been signed up with for a long time with no clients in my area has a new client and low and behold, that client is in my area too. There is also that aspect of community and that we are not all just out there plugging away on our own with no place to come visit, have a cup of coffee and chat.

This is a good place to hang out and my shopping business has benefited. My income increased substantially toward the end of my first year here. Excellent advice, objective and from different perspectives, abounds. Feedback and naming names is powerful.

I'm not sure of the meaning behind the OP's question, but I'd say it depends on the forum and the poster.

I consider myself a serious shopper. The board has helped me because I see that others do about the same numbers of shops I do. The board has helped me see that I am treated the same as others by the Mystery Shop Company. When there is an error, I always ask myself what did I do wrong. But it is good to see that others are having the same issues. My number of shops have been about the same.

kittybratt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have found since joining this forum that my
> mystery shop salary has almost doubled from last
> year, just doing this part time.
>
>
> Everyone has been so helpful when I needed
> suggestions.
>
> I do agree with Irene, these companies who don't
> pay or pay so late, are not happy about having
> their names posted here. Maybe they will have
> difficulty
> getting shoppers to do their work if they don't
> pay on time.