I encourage the hard working mystery shoppers who spend a lot of time and effort on earning a living wage to also think about the wages earned in the state you live in. I am not dependent on mystery shopping and yes I have been a server in my life. I did not find it at all more difficult than other jobs I have held including mystery shopping.
Consider the servers in mid range restaurants in my city. I have spoken to many that tell me they pull in over $100,000 per year. But as a group we all seem to feel they are underpaid and need our help. Should someone earning $10 an hour in a difficult and sometimes nasty job...I am thinking of people working in home care etc be expected to subsidize a restaurant workers income with a 20% tip when they have to scrape together their savings to celebrate at a nice restaurant. Or you the shopper who might be supporting your family on a mystery shop income of $35,000 a year??? I am just using pulled out of a hat figures. I think this whole tipping thing is completely out of whack. I would love it if , like calories, the restaurants would put their average full time serving workers income on display so I could see whether or not they really needed more or less of my money. It is not at all transparent...one place may pay their workers well and they may get big tips, the place next door where they work just as hard may pay a small amt and their servers are sharing tips with other categories of workers.
If we had any data on this I think we might rethink how and who we wanted to tip..maybe those tip jar people are the most deserving in your city, maybe not. Maybe the fast food workers are the ones who need the tips more...
My feeling is a higher percentage should be considered for the workers in less expensive places because I know math. 15% of a lunch that is $8 is $1.20 while 20% of a lunch at the places I mystery shop might be $6 or more. That server at the local cheap diner is working pretty hard and delivering just as many dishes and just as many refills if not more as coffee and soda at these places cause more work for the same bill at the end while another glass of wine or beer at the costly place translates to a bigger tip. And yet all my life I have heard you should leave a bigger % at a more expensive place...this includes just pricier menus like the $16 burger places abundant everywhere and not just 5* restaurants.

Good work sandyF, I'd like to add a good friend is a Bartender at our beautiful Hyatt, and when they have parties, she makes 1000.00 on tips for the evening....drinks are flowing, everyone's in a good mood and she does well.
Not all nights are like that, and yes, she is on her feet, but so are salesgirls in department stores. making 10.00 an hour (Macy's). Many over think this tip thing, tip for good service not because you think she works hard, we all work hard.....I'm done, don't bury me.

You make a point to think about the wages earned in each state. In Missouri servers aren't pulling down $100,000 a year nor are bartenders making $1,000 a night. They are paid $3.85 an hour. If their tips do not add up to that amount. the restaurant has to pay them an additional $3.85 to equal the $7.70 minimum wage.

@lisaSTL...that's alarming to me, but everything is relative, wages are higher here, so is the cost of living.
The movie industry has money and our restaurant workers do well. I have no idea what goes on wage wise throughout the country but everything is relative.....I spoke with my neighbor who just sold her house and is moving to Tennessee where she bought a home for 180,000...unheard of here, so, off subject, but every state
is different

Yes, in the city of St. Louis the cost of living is less than California, but not so low anyone could survive on less than $16,000 a year.

What is alarming is St. Louis opted for a higher minimum wage, still only $10, and Kansas City had an increase planned. Our state legislature rushed through a bill banning any city from raising their minimum wage despite a much higher cost of living for the cities than the rest of the state. Those workers in St. Louis who have been paid $10 an hour for several months now will have their wages go back to $7.70 unless their employers voluntarily keep it the same. Thankfully, businesses are rallying with at least 100 so far who have pledged to keep the pay scale. One local grocery store chain is going back. They happen to have two stores within a couple miles of me. Their competitors will get all of my business from now on.

I tip on pre amount when I have an 18% or 20% required tip. That's because the tip at that point is $40-$50 and much of it, if not all, comes out of my pocket since we've usually hit maximum reimbursement anyway. On smaller checks, with the required tip, I don't mind going over because it's just a few bucks out of pocket. Also, as I know I've stated before in the forum, they calculate tips on checks pre-tax and also I've seen them done after tax... I have never been dinged or had it mentioned.

The only place I did get called out was at a kid's pizza arcade that required a 10% tip. The receipt didn't even give the option to tip but the editor told me to bring cash next time to leave on the table. I haven't ever seen a single person tip at the place, and I've visited many times for parties and on my own. But I do as the guidelines state now that I realized the tip was a requirement.

One of my oldest and closest friends is a chef. 10 years ago he was the chef in a small but fairly pricey restaurant. For context, a city of just under 40,000 people in the rural southeast who's average ticket was $50 a head. Nothing to write home about in NYC, probably the nicest restaurant in town there. He was making about $50k a year. Some of his servers made more than him. 20 years ago, in a similar town, I knew college kids that waited tables because they could pull down $100 a night during the week and $200 on a weekend. They were making $35k a year as college kids in the mid 90's working 5 nights a week and there was no other job they could do to make half that.

@JASFLALMT wrote:

Yeah, cease, I tip Papa John's carryout CSR $1 though I know I am not getting it back, either.

Yes, last time I did a carryout (I usually order delivery), there was a tip jar on the counter. They have become ubiquitous! I put a dollar in. I didn't mention it on the report, either.

I've worked in restaurants, and even the managers on salary don't make a "living wage". And the manager is normally the only employee with benefits, as they keep the rest of them on 32-36 hours a week (or less, depending on the state where they are) so they don't qualify for benefits. According to state statistics, a person working in Nebraska at minimum wage must work 64 hours a week to pay rent and just to live on.

Generally, I don't like tip jars. I've heard too many stories of managers emptying the tip jar and not splitting it among the employees, or one employee just taking money out of it. It only takes a second for an employee at the register to slip a bill out of the tip jar and into his/her pocket.

Don't tip tax; tip the service.

@LisaSTL wrote:

Yes, in the city of St. Louis the cost of living is less than California, but not so low anyone could survive on less than $16,000 a year.

That reminded me of an article I saw recently that rang true:

[www.scpr.org]

Yes; you need $33/hour just to live in an apartment in LA....

I've been a server (briefly) and a host at three different restaurants. Servers are not hurting for cash. A "bad night" is $100. I've also worked retail making as low as $6.5 to $10.50/hr. I made more as a server then I ever made at any part-time job. I also don't tip for bad service, that's just stupid.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2017 02:32PM by eyelove2shop.

What is proper tipping etiquette at the strip club? I've heard a stripper told them their tip should be more than how much they spend on beer.... Asking for a friend.

My friend wants to know, too.

[www.scpr.org]

Yes; you need $33/hour just to live in an apartment in LA....[/quote]

Well, I suppose that depends on how many bedrooms you have and where you choose to live. In my area rents on quite small houses are $4,000 and up but just a few blocks away you can rent a small apt for under $1,000. I have a friend who rents a studio and pays under $1,000. Many singles rent a room in a house and share living spaces etc for $600-800. I live about a mile from the beach and a few blocks from a famous Marina. That is only 17% of income for someone who earns $33 an hour. If you live further inland there are many places for rent for way less, even whole houses.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2017 07:12PM by sandyf.

Sandy, rents are now exploding in L.A....up here a two bedroom goes for 2200 per month. Someone in my complex just rented for that. Schools are good, don't know why they don't buy since interest rates are still low
I know many have bad credit and cannot buy, which drives rentals up.. I was speaking with a man in W. L.A. near Century City that pays 4,000 for a two bedroom...crazy. Even though we make more, the cost of living is so high, it take two paychecks to make it.

@Irene_L.A. wrote:

Sandy, rents are now exploding in L.A....up here a two bedroom goes for 2200 per month. Someone in my complex just rented for that. Schools are good, don't know why they don't buy since interest rates are still low
I know many have bad credit and cannot buy, which drives rentals up.. I was speaking with a man in W. L.A. near Century City that pays 4,000 for a two bedroom...crazy. Even though we make more, the cost of living is so high, it take two paychecks to make it.

Well, if people don't have good credit, they won't qualify for a 5% downpayment for a conventional 15 or 30 year loan. Down payment and saving up enough for it is likely the issue. 20% downpayment for a $500,000+ with closing costs for an LA home isn't easy to save up for, especially if many are living paycheck to paycheck just to live...

@Tarantado wrote:

@Irene_L.A. wrote:

Sandy, rents are now exploding in L.A....up here a two bedroom goes for 2200 per month. Someone in my complex just rented for that. Schools are good, don't know why they don't buy since interest rates are still low
I know many have bad credit and cannot buy, which drives rentals up.. I was speaking with a man in W. L.A. near Century City that pays 4,000 for a two bedroom...crazy. Even though we make more, the cost of living is so high, it take two paychecks to make it.

Well, if people don't have good credit, they won't qualify for a 5% downpayment for a conventional 15 or 30 year loan. Down payment and saving up enough for it is likely the issue. 20% downpayment for a $500,000+ with closing costs for an LA home isn't easy to save up for, especially if many are living paycheck to paycheck just to live...

Yeah I know all about rents. The quote was about rents not about purchasing. I just wanted to point out that there are lower rents available in LA. Not in the complex where Irene lives with a pool etc., not in the fancy buildings they are building all over my neighborhood but in the older (in LA that means over 20 years) buildings all around me with studios, one and two bedrooms. If your person earning $15 an hour(min wage soon)wants to have a pool and a gym in their building with the latest kitchen appliances then they will not find anything in Los Angeles. As far as purchasing that is also out of reach for people earning low wages even if they have the down payment sometimes. It is difficult but renting is possible. I know lots of lower income people renting fairly close to the beach in my area without subsidies.

Not only can I not find a home (or even a condo) in my neighborhood to purchase for under $500k, but lower priced rentals are extremely limited. Apartments under $1,000 are not only absent of any amenities, but are generally not very safe.

To get something more affordable, you generally have to be in an area with limited public transit, and that means the added expense of needing a vehicle. I know a large number or restaurant workers who share a 1-bedroom apartment with a roommate in order to get by.

The thing that rang true about the article posted above is that earning the medium income for LA ($49,497) does not allow you to afford the median apartment. There is a gap here between the wages paid and cost of living.

@Irene_L.A. wrote:

Tips should be for good service, you can't feel sorry for everyone who chooses to do a service job........

Exactly. It's supposed to be based on service. The last massage I got (on a shop), they *automatically* added 18% as a tip -- on a $130 massage that was horrible. If it had been my own money, I wouldn't have tipped at all and probably would have asked for a refund. That little girl got $23 (?) tip on top of her wage for 50 minutes of subpar work.

@SteveSoCal wrote:

Yes; you need $33/hour just to live in an apartment in LA....

Always consider the source. The author of that article is president of an affordable housing advocacy group. And it assumes a person is paying for that $1700/mo apartment alone -- rarely the case. And that 30% is the cap on housing expenditure. I know a lot of people who live in LA that are making less than $50k a year and still making it. Same with any big city.

I try to tip 20% minimum for any sit down service.

I only remember not tipping, at a sit down full service, once in my life. I informed the manager, on my way out, why I chose to not tip. They didn't apologize for the servers lack of attention. Summary: Took our order. Dropped off water and drinks. Dropped off appetizer. Dropped off entrees. Dropped off check. Never cleared empty dishes, no drink refills, didn't ask if the food was good, didn't offer dessert, etc... They stood near the kitchen door ignoring every table as much as possible.

I was just up in the Lancaster, PA area. At the Green Dragon I went through a restaurant/diner line to order and pay for a $6 breakfast. A young lady was bussing the tables and checked on us. I left her a $2 tip. We also had a great meal Friday evening that came to just under $100 total. We left a $20 tip. I've sat at a bar spending about $10 and sometimes left my change, other times left several dollars.

I've called ahead for takeout at various places, and rarely leave a tip. A good friend of mine always tips for takeout, even at food trucks.

Any restaurant that provides tip recommendations on the receipt uses the sub-total without factoring in discounts, comps or specials. Whatever one chooses, it reflects their personal value system.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2017 03:40AM by isaiah58.

@iShop123 wrote:

The author of that article is president of an affordable housing advocacy group. And it assumes a person is paying for that $1700/mo apartment alone -- rarely the case. And that 30% is the cap on housing expenditure. I know a lot of people who live in LA that are making less than $50k a year and still making it.

Right, but the article also assumes what is a fair expectation for a decent lifestyle; Having the ability to save for your future, access to healthcare, living in a safe neighborhood, having some privacy, owning a car, dining out, etc.

I know plenty of people living on under $50k but their lives do not allow for many of those things. I was once one of those people, which is how I ended up becoming a shopper.

I also know plenty of people in LA living by themselves and paying over $1,500 monthly for rent. Even if you move the housing expenditure to 50%, you are pushing up against the $50k annual mark (or $25/hour) when you allow for payroll deductions to afford that. In my experience, living alone with a moderate lifestyle in L.A. requires $72k annually, and I'm someone who almost never puts out their own money to dine out or travel...

@isaiah58 wrote:

Any restaurant that provides tip recommendations on the receipt uses the sub-total without factoring in discounts, comps or specials. Whatever one chooses, it reflects their personal value system.

Not always true. I recall a recent dining shop that had tip recommendations that INCLUDED tax. I ended up tipping the required amount per my guidelines pre-tax.

Establishments that suggest a tip printed on the receipt post tax do not stand well with me. One restaurant skipped the 18 percent and went straight to 20, 22 and 25 if I recall correctly. I will tip 20-22 percent even if a few dollars come out of my pocket if mystery shopping. I don't have a problem with tipping and will tip the server at a lower establishment just as much at a fancy restaurant and usually much more. I agree they are working just as hard. I do know my niece who works at a place comparable to TGIF makes a load of tip money.

At the strip club, tip a dollar a drink. Watching a stage show? Tip a dollar a song. Getting a private dance? Tip 15% of what the dance costs. If you change in big bills for dollar bills, tip a dollar.

@FrugalCat wrote:

At the strip club, tip a dollar a drink. Watching a stage show? Tip a dollar a song. Getting a private dance? Tip 15% of what the dance costs. If you change in big bills for dollar bills, tip a dollar.

Ha, ha. Good thing to know in case I am ever in one (or get a job at one!)

@FrugalCat wrote:

At the strip club, tip a dollar a drink. Watching a stage show? Tip a dollar a song. Getting a private dance? Tip 15% of what the dance costs. If you change in big bills for dollar bills, tip a dollar.

Good to know in case my friend is ever in one.

My teenage neighbor makes an average of $21 per hour assembling take out in our low cost of living area. The other teenage neighbor on the other side averages $25 an hour in tips alone delivering pizzas. Most people `work hard' in their line of work. And it drives me crazy that most of the tip calculations at the bottom of receipts are based on after tax totals. I complained to a restaurant manager once and she was clearly offended that i mentioned it.

I've always understood that tipping was pre-tax, pre-discounts. I generally do tip on post tax and over 20%, though, because I'm usually by myself and they have to work almost as hard as if there was another person at my table.

My tips normally go up if I'm dining alone and they still take good care of me. If they assume since I'm by myself they won't make as much as the table of 4 next to me and treat me that way? Yep, their assumption just created reality.