@walesmaven wrote:

Finally, the guy I would really like to see terminated is the car sales fellow who told me, "When your husband arrives we can talk about engines."

What did you say? How did the rest of the sexist condescension go?

Those who violate the law while on the shoppers video camera are likely to soon be unemployed. Discriminatory agents at apartment complexes come to mind.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2017 05:12AM by Rousseau.

Most of my shopping is done in an expensive city with virtually no unemployment. It takes breaking the law to get fired from nearly any job here. That being said, I was recently told by a scheduler that a bonused last-minute shop someone else had flaked on needed to be filed right away because the manager's paycheck couldn't be cut until the report came in. So while we might not routinely be getting people fired, we're likely often playing a role in what their income is.

Either the scheduler was being dishonest or the manager they were referring to was their own. If the manager was an employee of the client, I'm not entirely sure pulling a stunt like holding a paycheck for a mystery shopping report would be legal.

@NinS wrote:

Most of my shopping is done in an expensive city with virtually no unemployment. It takes breaking the law to get fired from nearly any job here. That being said, I was recently told by a scheduler that a bonused last-minute shop someone else had flaked on needed to be filed right away because the manager's paycheck couldn't be cut until the report came in. So while we might not routinely be getting people fired, we're likely often playing a role in what their income is.

I am tempted to call BS on this but it should probably be filed as a partial darwin award or with the YouthinAsis shops.

@NinS wrote:

So while we might not routinely be getting people fired, we're likely often playing a role in what their income is.

I know that McD managers get bonuses based on their shop reports (or used to; haven't shopped them in ages.) In addition, their shop reports help to determine who gets upgrades and other expenditures first. Perhaps that was what was meant.

Jamiesan,
Since I had the guy on video and audio, I just smiled and said nothing.

Lisa,
The scheduler probably meant the manager's bonus check was dependent on the report. I once was specifically told that a fast turn-around for a reshop was needed because the first report needed to be either supported or not before the bonus could be determined. Of course, I was not told what the first report had said, positive or negative. Unfortunately, my shop report was very difficult to write, as negative reports typically are.

You are, of course, correct about the legality (or lack thereof) of withholding a regular paycheck.

A bonus check makes sense.

@SteveSoCal wrote:

@Hoju wrote:

I thought MSC's didn't want us adding in our opinion like this.

Why are you directing the question to me? I'm not the one who wrote that....

Steve, all us Southern Californians look alike!! So Cal Dude, Steve So Cal. Hey we are all blond hair surfers so what is the diff? But in reality I work for a few msc that ask for my opinion on a report. They do not want objective, just mostly subjective. It's a nice change from all the other msc reports.

I once reported a host at a restaurant for making a racial remark and then touching me inappropriately. That was the last time he was seen at the restaurant.

I did a bar integrity shop where a bartender was stacking $20 bills behind the cash register from cash pay customers and pocketed it. I sat at the bar for 2 hours nursing a glass of strawberry daiquiri and saw the guy put the cash in the pocket. I'm sure he was gone after that report. Yes, people get terminated because of MS.

I'm not sure if this person got fired or not but I was doing a shop to pad the way for another shop. The real shop was 2 hours away plus video and paid really good. The second shop was a regular shop for an apartment. I considered that one as gas money. Well I made the recorded call and proceeded to the location. When I arrived, I knew I'd be entering the report much later so I decided to record it on my phone. When I arrived, I was told that they did not have anything to show. A couple of weeks later, not days, I was asked if I could refer to my notes because in my report, I stated that I was not shown an apartment when I actually was shown an apartment. I was also questioned about another person being present in the office. I'm not sure why I wasn't shown an apartment or why they stated that I was shown an apartment. I did forward the audio but never got any feedback on why I was questioned.

Steve...I liked your post. As a former PI, and longtime MSC operator and now shopper, I can tell you what California Law is, and how it is followed in about 47 states:
The MSC must be a licensed private investigator IF the report is to be used in the process of disciplinary action, up to and including termination. IF an employee decides to sue or complain via a labor hearing, the MSC's report is generally inadmissable unless that MSC is a licensed PI. If the retailer, restaurateur, or operator is just trying to scare the employee, fine... But if the employee has the courage, the employee will win, almost automatically, if the basis of the discipline or termination is the shopper report by an unlicensed PI. This was not the case prior to 2000, or so, when all MSC's had to be licensed. (In CA, it was the law!). The MSC's PI license holds the shopper (who is, technically, supposed to work under that license) harmless. Of course, with today's internet hiring and .... cough, cough... "training", and the competitive nature of the MS business, MSC's and employers just roll the dice and takes their chances! My sister is a labor attorney, and she says the easiest case/hearing to win is when an employee is terminated without good cause...just sayin'!

Winemaker, you are incorrect about needing PI license for the MSC if an employment termination is contemplated. That may be the case in CA, and even in some others. However, I work regularly in 10-12 states (and sometimes more)where it is not. I do 400-500 cash integrity shops per year and in industries where more than half of the targets are unionized and have strong due process rights under their contracts. I know for a fact that union arbitration managers will, and do, decline to pursue arbitration when presented with multiple forms of evidence, including legally obtained video and audio. Even the very strong union protections afforded Amtrak employees will not protect them, but the shopper's reports, in those (Amtrak) instances, have to be followed up with internal investigations. Often attorneys and union arbitration reps advise the employee to accept separation in lieu of prosecution. In cases of bartenders, serving minors and or serving obviously inebriated customers, the managers will fire on the spot.

In addition, we are increasingly seeing intoxication and/or drug abuse that carries a very, very high risk for employers whose employees operate vehicles, control public transportation of any kind or are supposed to provide security services.

Finally the folks who do video at establishments that are pirating broadcasts of sporting events have some hair-raising tales to tell about personal security concerns. And, yes, they have to file certified affidavits along with the videos and, if necessary, be prepared to testify in court proceedings.

You also need to study up on the many, many states that have serious "at will" employment laws, where non-union employees really have no due process protections from termination unless their cases are the sort can be made in Federal, State or Local courts based upon discrimination statutes.

Disclosure: I hold a PhD in Industrial Relations and Labor Economics with a specialization on Employment and Training practices. I keep up with legal developments in all aspects of terms and conditions of employment.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2017 09:33PM by walesmaven.

I did not mean to imply that the manager would not get paid a cent if I didn't file my report. I'm sure the scheduler was referring to their bonus.

You didn't say anything about whether the MSCs in your examples hold PI licenses......some do, some don't.
THAT is the rub.And don't instruct me to "read up on...." "At Will" employment has NOTHING to do with terminating someone for cause. California, for example, is an "At Will" state, and there is probably no more lenient state as far as labor matters go. Employers often choose to use their "At Will" status to let suspected thieves go here...but they never, in those cases, present a MS report....ever.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2017 05:41PM by winemaker.

I had a restaurant shop last night that required a cash purchase from the bar. I was supposed to get $1.22 back in change but he only gave me $1. Of course, normally, I actually wouldn't care or think much of it but I have to put it in the report. He wasn't friendly-- didn't smile, didn't greet us, only asked what we wanted in a hurried manner, etc-- so I want him to get reprimanded for that but I'm nice and hope he doesn't get fired over $0.22.

It's fairly common for bartenders not to make change from what I've seen when going out socially.

@kstaplet wrote:

I had a restaurant shop last night that required a cash purchase from the bar. I was supposed to get $1.22 back in change but he only gave me $1. Of course, normally, I actually wouldn't care or think much of it but I have to put it in the report. He wasn't friendly-- didn't smile, didn't greet us, only asked what we wanted in a hurried manner, etc-- so I want him to get reprimanded for that but I'm nice and hope he doesn't get fired over $0.22.

Winemaker, the MSCs I referred to do NOT hold PI licenses.

@MFJohnston wrote:

I do not believe that somebody could reasonably be terminated based exclusively on our reports. However, our reports will bring an issue into question and might lead an employer to look at video surveillance, order audio/video recorded shops, report a potential problem to security, etc. As we are not employed by the client and do not have specific HR training, anybody could fight an allegation we make.

Well, my guy in FL was definitely terminated.

ETA: The MSC had a current PI License.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2017 07:54AM by SoCalMama.

@MSF wrote:

It's fairly common for bartenders not to make change from what I've seen when going out socially.

@kstaplet wrote:

I had a restaurant shop last night that required a cash purchase from the bar. I was supposed to get $1.22 back in change but he only gave me $1. Of course, normally, I actually wouldn't care or think much of it but I have to put it in the report. He wasn't friendly-- didn't smile, didn't greet us, only asked what we wanted in a hurried manner, etc-- so I want him to get reprimanded for that but I'm nice and hope he doesn't get fired over $0.22.

I can't remember ever getting coins back from a bartender. I thought this was normal practice.

@JASFLALMT wrote:

That's one thing I am not totally on board with: if they don't card someone who is 25-30 (supposed to ask for ID for people who look under 30 and older in some states) but the person is obviously not under 21, should the server/bartender still be fired or just given a warning?

My regular spot where my husband and I would go for $1 Coors Mugs wouldn't let me drink when I got a new license because I had a temporary ID waiting on the Federal to arrive. I'm 29 -- and we've been drinking at this spot for at least 5 years now. The bartender recognized us and was ready to pour our beers and someone else in the bar went bananas over my license when they asked for it. It wasn't anyone I had ever seen working, but could have been a new manager or overzealous employee. I don't know. We haven't gone back in since the guy showed his arse so much and made a scene-- then asked me to either wait in the car on my husband or for both of us to leave.

I was told at the DMV it would serve as a valid, full drivers license and ID until the new one arrived.... very frustrating situation. The guy kept saying he could get fired if ABC or cops rolled in... errrr -_- I have ID... VALID ID... issued by the DMV 0_o Perhaps he has had a mystery shop go bad haha. Either way, we started going to a new little pub or drinking more at home.

There was a very scary story posted on the V GOD site a few years back about a shopper who received a phone call from an oil change employee terminated due to their shop report....not sure if the chain was Jiffy Lube, think it happened in California or Nevada...very disturbing...

@Arch Stanton wrote:

There was a very scary story posted on the V GOD site a few years back about a shopper who received a phone call from an oil change employee terminated due to their shop report....not sure if the chain was Jiffy Lube, think it happened in California or Nevada...very disturbing...

What did they do?

I did a non-targeted hotel bar at a very high end hotel, just had to stay for 90 min, order food and drinks and report on 3 other transactions. I noticed that the same location was shopped daily for two weeks. Three months later I was reading in the newspaper that the bartender I had shopped was fired and suing them.

On the other hand, I did the valet parking at the Ritz Carlton for the valet company and only the doorman was there during a cold night. He asked whether I was paying cash or CC and said he would give me a discount for paying cash $30 instead of $50. He was still there six months later when I visited to do the bar.

Kate,
The doorman has discretion to do what you reported, up to some daily or weekly limit. They generally use that you "comp" park or all of the parking fee for VIPS (It is part of their job to know who those are.) BUT if the "limit" for such transactions has not been reached via the VIP option, they will use it to do what you experienced. Doormen are the emperors of the arrival area and driveway in the hotel business.

There was one salesman at a high-end dealership in Fresno, CA that I shopped several years ago that I knew was fired following my visit, as well as another shopper friend of mine that visited the next day. She was doing new car sales, while I was doing used car sales. We both inadvertently got the same salesman who just so happened to give unbelievably false financial information on the potential sale, to say the least.

After my shops for the week had concluded, my shopper friend & I compared notes on different locations, since she was heading into SoCal, and I into NoCal. The shops were so bad with the salesman commiting borderline fraud that we both had to rush our video work + report to the MSC, who in in turn, alerted the client that was based both in the US & in Europe. The dealership later confirmed the termination when it was brought up on another visit a year later, yet with a different brand.

I never like to hear anyone getting fired for my work. My job is to never play "gotcha." But when a shop is unexpectedly as bad as it gets, all I can do is just shut up, and allow the target to get themselves in trouble.

I just completed a shop, where the salesperson kept saying, "I don't know, I don't own one." I was supposed to get recommendations and features information. He referred me to their website. He was very nice but couldn't answer my questions. I hope he just gets retrained and doesn't lose his job.

I am still certain that nobody gets terminated as a result of a single mystery shopping experience - unless it is blatant/illegal, a confirmation of a known pattern, or on video. At a bar integrity shop, for instance, a report of fishy cash handling might result in a review of surveillance cameras, additional shops ordered and/or an internal investigation. However, to terminate somebody on nothing more than my word would not hold up on court.