IC PRO
Warning: For Full Access Please Log In or Create an Account (Free)
What I don't understand is: when I sign up with a MSC, I sign a IC agreement. Period. It is clear and simple. I am not their employee, yada, yada, yada.
So why now all of a sudden, do I have to start signing this agreement or whatever it is with companies that I already signd up with, through the MSA, Volition or anything else? Can anyone explain?
So why now all of a sudden, do I have to start signing this agreement or whatever it is with companies that I already signd up with, through the MSA, Volition or anything else? Can anyone explain?
Paranoia.
Indeed when you sign up it is as an "Independent Contractor". Indeed many companies ask you to name what other companies you work with, and I usually name one or two or may just indicate that I am registered with more than a hundred and work with many during each month.
My sense is one of mass hysteria. The crowd is being thumped up into fears for their livelihood and that explodes into things such as the current nonsense or the pleas for all shoppers to write their congressmen to "save shopper jobs".
A little reality testing indicates that there are a lot of "Independent Contractors" out there other than mystery shoppers. They are plumbers, carpenters, handymen, writers, many child care providers and the list goes on and on. Some of them are State licensed, some are not. If Congress does ANYTHING about Independent Contractors it is likely to go after companies that are already breaking the IRS rules regarding ICs that have hardly been enforced in decades. The abusers are the ones that 'hire' a contractor to, for example, come into the company's office, sit at the company's desk, perform the company's work on the company's equipment, be subjected to a company employed supervisor while they do this. This person in no way is an Independent Contractor, but the company hiring them is doing so to avoid offering them benefits such as other workers receive and avoid paying Worker's Comp on them. There has been a huge amount of abuse in this area, especially among the tech firms where benefits packages are (or have been) very generous.
An IRS crackdown on the abusers would be a good thing, in my opinion, but that would not touch companies that are playing by the rules. You will note that the companies you do work for do NOT provide you with space or equipment to do your work. Sometimes their instructions are potentially too specific as to where, when and how you will perform your observations. I wonder, too, whether the specified deadlines for reporting, "6 hrs", "12 hrs" etc. after a shop would stand up to IRS scrutiny as remaining true to "Independent Contractor" status. Of course the companies we work for seem to be more willing to be blind to details that could jeopardize our status than they are to hysterics that, "It is all going to go away!!!" So I look at the current IC Pro and in the back of my head is a running commentary on "Chicken Little."
Indeed when you sign up it is as an "Independent Contractor". Indeed many companies ask you to name what other companies you work with, and I usually name one or two or may just indicate that I am registered with more than a hundred and work with many during each month.
My sense is one of mass hysteria. The crowd is being thumped up into fears for their livelihood and that explodes into things such as the current nonsense or the pleas for all shoppers to write their congressmen to "save shopper jobs".
A little reality testing indicates that there are a lot of "Independent Contractors" out there other than mystery shoppers. They are plumbers, carpenters, handymen, writers, many child care providers and the list goes on and on. Some of them are State licensed, some are not. If Congress does ANYTHING about Independent Contractors it is likely to go after companies that are already breaking the IRS rules regarding ICs that have hardly been enforced in decades. The abusers are the ones that 'hire' a contractor to, for example, come into the company's office, sit at the company's desk, perform the company's work on the company's equipment, be subjected to a company employed supervisor while they do this. This person in no way is an Independent Contractor, but the company hiring them is doing so to avoid offering them benefits such as other workers receive and avoid paying Worker's Comp on them. There has been a huge amount of abuse in this area, especially among the tech firms where benefits packages are (or have been) very generous.
An IRS crackdown on the abusers would be a good thing, in my opinion, but that would not touch companies that are playing by the rules. You will note that the companies you do work for do NOT provide you with space or equipment to do your work. Sometimes their instructions are potentially too specific as to where, when and how you will perform your observations. I wonder, too, whether the specified deadlines for reporting, "6 hrs", "12 hrs" etc. after a shop would stand up to IRS scrutiny as remaining true to "Independent Contractor" status. Of course the companies we work for seem to be more willing to be blind to details that could jeopardize our status than they are to hysterics that, "It is all going to go away!!!" So I look at the current IC Pro and in the back of my head is a running commentary on "Chicken Little."
patnewman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What I don't understand is: when I sign up with a
> MSC, I sign a IC agreement. Period. It is clear
> and simple. I am not their employee, yada, yada,
> yada.
> So why now all of a sudden, do I have to start
> signing this agreement or whatever it is with
> companies that I already signd up with, through
> the MSA, Volition or anything else? Can anyone
> explain?
I can explain, Pat.
Simply, it is not that simple.
Bear with me.
An IC status - not your agreement - is determined by the relationship between the parties and potentially decided by others like the courts and IRS in certain situations.
For example, if your electrician gets injured while doing a job in your house - Does he get worker's compensation from you? The courts will decide if he is an employee or IC. They courts will view various factors (for details, the IRS has a good explanation - [www.irs.gov]) about the status, or relationship between you and your electrician. Most electricians, plumbers, roofers, etc. are ICs. Why? because they are independent - They have their own equipment, hours, license, hours, etc.
Employees are in the traditional sense where you go to work and have a work area, are provided tools, equipment, and materials, told when and where to take your breaks, what to wear, what to say and how to say it, etc.. Control of the employee/contractor is a big factor. Employees are controlled much more than ICs.
Are all relationships so black and white? No.
A favorite one for me, is a newspaper who now employees paper delivery people as ICs. They used to be employees of that newspaper. One day, they laid off everyone and said all new paper delivery people are ICs. The newspaper tells the delivery person when to do the route, which addresses to go to, what to deliver, takes orders and fields complaints and from the customers. I have no idea who my paper person is. So, is he/she an employee or IC? When I look at the factors, this looks a lot like an employee relationship to me. If and when the IRS decides if those paper delivery people are employees, they will look at the factors more than any signed statement saying it is an IC.
Why all the ruckus?
For mystery shopping, there was a recent bill in Congress that scared the MS industry. It would change the rules to define mystery shoppers as employees, not ICs (or so the MSPA said). If that happened, MSCs would have to treat us and pay us like employees. Not something they want to do because it generally costs more to pay employees than ICs.
So, what is IC-PRO?
To me, they want shoppers to try to establish a relationship that is more like an independent contractor and less like an employee.
Hope that helps.
-------------------------------------------------------
> What I don't understand is: when I sign up with a
> MSC, I sign a IC agreement. Period. It is clear
> and simple. I am not their employee, yada, yada,
> yada.
> So why now all of a sudden, do I have to start
> signing this agreement or whatever it is with
> companies that I already signd up with, through
> the MSA, Volition or anything else? Can anyone
> explain?
I can explain, Pat.
Simply, it is not that simple.
Bear with me.
An IC status - not your agreement - is determined by the relationship between the parties and potentially decided by others like the courts and IRS in certain situations.
For example, if your electrician gets injured while doing a job in your house - Does he get worker's compensation from you? The courts will decide if he is an employee or IC. They courts will view various factors (for details, the IRS has a good explanation - [www.irs.gov]) about the status, or relationship between you and your electrician. Most electricians, plumbers, roofers, etc. are ICs. Why? because they are independent - They have their own equipment, hours, license, hours, etc.
Employees are in the traditional sense where you go to work and have a work area, are provided tools, equipment, and materials, told when and where to take your breaks, what to wear, what to say and how to say it, etc.. Control of the employee/contractor is a big factor. Employees are controlled much more than ICs.
Are all relationships so black and white? No.
A favorite one for me, is a newspaper who now employees paper delivery people as ICs. They used to be employees of that newspaper. One day, they laid off everyone and said all new paper delivery people are ICs. The newspaper tells the delivery person when to do the route, which addresses to go to, what to deliver, takes orders and fields complaints and from the customers. I have no idea who my paper person is. So, is he/she an employee or IC? When I look at the factors, this looks a lot like an employee relationship to me. If and when the IRS decides if those paper delivery people are employees, they will look at the factors more than any signed statement saying it is an IC.
Why all the ruckus?
For mystery shopping, there was a recent bill in Congress that scared the MS industry. It would change the rules to define mystery shoppers as employees, not ICs (or so the MSPA said). If that happened, MSCs would have to treat us and pay us like employees. Not something they want to do because it generally costs more to pay employees than ICs.
So, what is IC-PRO?
To me, they want shoppers to try to establish a relationship that is more like an independent contractor and less like an employee.
Hope that helps.
Happily shopping Rhode Island and nearby Massachusetts and Connecticut
walesmaven Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since we are not paying for anything, how are we
> enriching anyone? On another forum there is a Q&A
> about who, if anyone paid for or is making money
> with this. You might read before jumping to
> confusions.
This irritates me. You call me out for not reading, yet you did not comprehend what I wrote. I'll write it again, just for you:
I'm not inclined to do anything that might enrich Ray Sola.
*Might*. And as has since been pointed out, the Volition endorsement serves as advertising, which presumably benefits Sola. If you like/trust the other site, fine. But I do not.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since we are not paying for anything, how are we
> enriching anyone? On another forum there is a Q&A
> about who, if anyone paid for or is making money
> with this. You might read before jumping to
> confusions.
This irritates me. You call me out for not reading, yet you did not comprehend what I wrote. I'll write it again, just for you:
I'm not inclined to do anything that might enrich Ray Sola.
*Might*. And as has since been pointed out, the Volition endorsement serves as advertising, which presumably benefits Sola. If you like/trust the other site, fine. But I do not.
I would like to add that the jury is still out on if it would be such a bad thing for MSers to be considered employees.
If you have researched this and come to a decision that it would be bad, then please by all means, feel free to take part in this program and do your part to help ensure your status.
I would like to bring up a few points that bother me about this, however. Here are the reasons that Jobslinger lists to maintain an IC status:
1. Your mystery shopping income would be subject to immediate state and federal withholding.
2. The increased fees for running a mystery shopping company with shoppers as employees would result in lower shop fees.
3. You might not be able to work for more than one or two mystery shopping companies.
4. You might get no work at all.
5. Your unemployment benefits would likely be negligible.
For anyone who has not read my previous rants, understand that I have been an employee mystery shopper in both CA and NV, so I have some insight on both sides of this argument. Here's my take on this:
1. We should all be paying taxes on our income anyway, so having it taken out at the start may save you IRS headaches down the line. The amount removed for these low paying jobs is relatively negligible as well.
2. BS! As employees, we would be subject to minimum wage requirements and many shop fees may actually go up. There may be fewer overall shops, but they will most likely pay better. The concept that enforcing the employee relationship will end MSing is bunk. It will exist in one form or another with or without IC status.
3. I have NEVER been turned down for work with an MSC because I am an employee shopper of another MSC. If anything, it gives me status as a trained professional and makes me more desirable to them. As it is, we have access to sensitive information from hundreds of companies. How would that change?
4. It's my understanding that anyone who gets a work card is welcome to apply as a shopper in Nevada. Just as it is with IC's, the better shoppers will get the jobs. What would change? Every company I work for in CA that has outlets in NV also employs shoppers there.
5. I've never heard that UI benefits would be an incentive for bringing employee shopper programs about, but anything is better than nothing. We are a group that works for $1 at times, so the argument that benefits may be negligible is somewhat moot.
I can think of some reasons why being an employee may be a bad thing, but let me mention some benefits to start with. as an employee:
- You could be subject to receiving travel pay for jobs that require extensive traveling. Some amount of travel would be considered a commute, but extensive trips could end up being more profitable.
- There would be a minimum wage for the time you spend on shops...Both for the shopping and reporting time. Forms that take a long time to fill out would pay better. MSC's would also have incentive to make the forms simple.
- You would have protection from having shops rejected. A recent experience I had with a high-end shop make me think seriously about this. What if you have a $2,000 resort stay and something goes wrong? How many jobs do you have to take to make up for loosing $2000 on a job?
- While Nevada may have fewer shoppers overall, the ones that work there get paid much better than all others, and have a lot more available work.
- Imagine being able to call in sick when you are sick and not be penalized? As an employee, that's a right you have.
- Your check will be legally due by a particular date and will most likely NEVER be 'lost in the mail' or delayed.
Some things I do not like about being an employee shopper:
- Since reimbursement is a big incentive for IC's, there is generally less reimbursement offered.
- Filling out time cards each weeks is a bit of a pain.
- Drug testing would most likely be mandatory.
- You could be prohibited from talking about your job on public message boards.
- MSC's would have the right to require you to take jobs. However; like all employers, having a good relationship with your employer and performing well at work will get you the ability to maintain a flexible schedule. I have never been required to take a job at the threat of losing my job if I didn't perform. I HAVE been asked under duress, as an IC, to take a shop in order to receive a more lucrative assignment in the future.
I invite discussion of the pros & cons of employee based shopping for everyone here, as I'm sure I just scratched the surface....
If you have researched this and come to a decision that it would be bad, then please by all means, feel free to take part in this program and do your part to help ensure your status.
I would like to bring up a few points that bother me about this, however. Here are the reasons that Jobslinger lists to maintain an IC status:
1. Your mystery shopping income would be subject to immediate state and federal withholding.
2. The increased fees for running a mystery shopping company with shoppers as employees would result in lower shop fees.
3. You might not be able to work for more than one or two mystery shopping companies.
4. You might get no work at all.
5. Your unemployment benefits would likely be negligible.
For anyone who has not read my previous rants, understand that I have been an employee mystery shopper in both CA and NV, so I have some insight on both sides of this argument. Here's my take on this:
1. We should all be paying taxes on our income anyway, so having it taken out at the start may save you IRS headaches down the line. The amount removed for these low paying jobs is relatively negligible as well.
2. BS! As employees, we would be subject to minimum wage requirements and many shop fees may actually go up. There may be fewer overall shops, but they will most likely pay better. The concept that enforcing the employee relationship will end MSing is bunk. It will exist in one form or another with or without IC status.
3. I have NEVER been turned down for work with an MSC because I am an employee shopper of another MSC. If anything, it gives me status as a trained professional and makes me more desirable to them. As it is, we have access to sensitive information from hundreds of companies. How would that change?
4. It's my understanding that anyone who gets a work card is welcome to apply as a shopper in Nevada. Just as it is with IC's, the better shoppers will get the jobs. What would change? Every company I work for in CA that has outlets in NV also employs shoppers there.
5. I've never heard that UI benefits would be an incentive for bringing employee shopper programs about, but anything is better than nothing. We are a group that works for $1 at times, so the argument that benefits may be negligible is somewhat moot.
I can think of some reasons why being an employee may be a bad thing, but let me mention some benefits to start with. as an employee:
- You could be subject to receiving travel pay for jobs that require extensive traveling. Some amount of travel would be considered a commute, but extensive trips could end up being more profitable.
- There would be a minimum wage for the time you spend on shops...Both for the shopping and reporting time. Forms that take a long time to fill out would pay better. MSC's would also have incentive to make the forms simple.
- You would have protection from having shops rejected. A recent experience I had with a high-end shop make me think seriously about this. What if you have a $2,000 resort stay and something goes wrong? How many jobs do you have to take to make up for loosing $2000 on a job?
- While Nevada may have fewer shoppers overall, the ones that work there get paid much better than all others, and have a lot more available work.
- Imagine being able to call in sick when you are sick and not be penalized? As an employee, that's a right you have.
- Your check will be legally due by a particular date and will most likely NEVER be 'lost in the mail' or delayed.
Some things I do not like about being an employee shopper:
- Since reimbursement is a big incentive for IC's, there is generally less reimbursement offered.
- Filling out time cards each weeks is a bit of a pain.
- Drug testing would most likely be mandatory.
- You could be prohibited from talking about your job on public message boards.
- MSC's would have the right to require you to take jobs. However; like all employers, having a good relationship with your employer and performing well at work will get you the ability to maintain a flexible schedule. I have never been required to take a job at the threat of losing my job if I didn't perform. I HAVE been asked under duress, as an IC, to take a shop in order to receive a more lucrative assignment in the future.
I invite discussion of the pros & cons of employee based shopping for everyone here, as I'm sure I just scratched the surface....
you did just scratch...
honestly i regret last year claiming all my ms earnings... oigh... had to do a small buisness claim and the like... didnt help me at all just cost an extra 77 bucks (turbotax)... sigh... and to be quite honest i claimed a loss but it was minimal... so basically i payed 77 bucks of my money for a load of whahoo...
honestly i regret last year claiming all my ms earnings... oigh... had to do a small buisness claim and the like... didnt help me at all just cost an extra 77 bucks (turbotax)... sigh... and to be quite honest i claimed a loss but it was minimal... so basically i payed 77 bucks of my money for a load of whahoo...
shopping north west PA and south west ny
I just registered with IC Pro the other day, and have already received several emails for Mystery Shopping jobs. For those of you who have asked how or why you would get more jobs after registering with IC Pro, the following comes from their FAQs:
How will I get more shops as an IC Pro?
Mystery shopping companies will give shops to you (operating as a professional independent business) instead of a much riskier shopper who operates less professionally as an undeclared individual.
After I registered with them, I was immediately taken to their job board, and was amazed at how many job postings were available within a 10 mile radius from my home - over 100. I'm sure that someone living in a less populated area would not have as many job postings available as myself. (I live approximately 25 miles south of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania). However, this is the most job postings I have ever seen available for my area.
How will I get more shops as an IC Pro?
Mystery shopping companies will give shops to you (operating as a professional independent business) instead of a much riskier shopper who operates less professionally as an undeclared individual.
After I registered with them, I was immediately taken to their job board, and was amazed at how many job postings were available within a 10 mile radius from my home - over 100. I'm sure that someone living in a less populated area would not have as many job postings available as myself. (I live approximately 25 miles south of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania). However, this is the most job postings I have ever seen available for my area.
I'm glad it has worked for you bcavallero. You mentioned in March that you were a new shopper and a dabbler at shopping. Had you signed up with many companies already? If you had not yet, then signing up would likely show you a lot more work than you normally see. But my understanding of the site is that they are trying to attract experienced shoppers who are signed up with many companies already to try to help prove that they are indeed 'professional' shoppers.
bcavallero Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> How will I get more shops as an IC Pro?
>
> Mystery shopping companies will give shops to you
> (operating as a professional independent business)
> instead of a much riskier shopper who operates
> less professionally as an undeclared individual.
>
> After I registered with them, I was immediately
> taken to their job board, and was amazed at how
> many job postings were available within a 10 mile
> radius from my home - over 100. I'm sure that
> someone living in a less populated area would not
> have as many job postings available as myself. (I
> live approximately 25 miles south of Philadelphia,
> Pennsylvania). However, this is the most job
> postings I have ever seen available for my area.
Sorry, don't buy it. I can see how taking this action MIGHT help IF you are a shopper without a record for a certain company.
In my opinion, there's either another reason for this, it's not being explained correctly, or it's just plain stupid. In reference to this not benefiting anyone, of course there's an aspect of commerce in this! Even if it's as simple as Sassie trying to attract more MSC business by offering this "service".
Like I said before, maybe I'll sign up, when and if I understand and believe the reason for it.
bcavallero, were you a member of JobSlinger before you signed up for IC Pro, or did you sign up for them both at once?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2010 12:31PM by nicelytwicely.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> How will I get more shops as an IC Pro?
>
> Mystery shopping companies will give shops to you
> (operating as a professional independent business)
> instead of a much riskier shopper who operates
> less professionally as an undeclared individual.
>
> After I registered with them, I was immediately
> taken to their job board, and was amazed at how
> many job postings were available within a 10 mile
> radius from my home - over 100. I'm sure that
> someone living in a less populated area would not
> have as many job postings available as myself. (I
> live approximately 25 miles south of Philadelphia,
> Pennsylvania). However, this is the most job
> postings I have ever seen available for my area.
Sorry, don't buy it. I can see how taking this action MIGHT help IF you are a shopper without a record for a certain company.
In my opinion, there's either another reason for this, it's not being explained correctly, or it's just plain stupid. In reference to this not benefiting anyone, of course there's an aspect of commerce in this! Even if it's as simple as Sassie trying to attract more MSC business by offering this "service".
Like I said before, maybe I'll sign up, when and if I understand and believe the reason for it.
bcavallero, were you a member of JobSlinger before you signed up for IC Pro, or did you sign up for them both at once?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2010 12:31PM by nicelytwicely.
Flash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>If you had not yet, then signing up would likely show you a lot more work
> than you normally see.
Flash, we were posting at the same time. Yes, that's exactly why I asked that question.
-------------------------------------------------------
>If you had not yet, then signing up would likely show you a lot more work
> than you normally see.
Flash, we were posting at the same time. Yes, that's exactly why I asked that question.
I understand. I was asking in terms of getting a baseline of companies already shopped for. Certainly someone who is not already signed up with a lot of companies will find new-to-them companies on Jobslinger.com itself or by the trial membership at Shadow Shopper or Premier Shopper, etc. It is not a commentary on IC Pro itself, but rather looking for a perspective.
I often wonder why merchants like McDonalds don't use video cameras to watch and time car after car going through the drive-through lane and customers inside purchasing at the counter. And with current techology those videos could easily be linked to microphones worn by employees to rate their verbal skills. All that they would lack would be opinions on hot/warm/cold food, etc.
RE: I often wonder why merchants like McDonald's don't use video cameras to watch and time car after car going through the drive-through lane and customers inside purchasing at the counter. And with current technology those videos could easily be linked to microphones worn by employees to rate their verbal skills. All that they would lack would be opinions on hot/warm/cold food, etc.
IMO, they do have this technology, and use it to a degree.
I believe Mystery Shopping is just one tool in the tool box, and remember, Marketing Departments on up to the Executive Level LOVE the power point presentations that the MSC's provide.
If the Marketing Department had the ability to quickly and cheaply provide the information, they would, (as in the case of the Pizza Delivery Company who asks for Pizza pictures from the end user). For the most part, it's easier to sub out to an MSC, and let them do the "research" and supply the eye catching power point which every VP LOVES !!!
----
Back on topic
I still don't see a difference in IC-PRO.
I get the same $15 jobs, with the same $5 bonuses in the areas that no one wants.
In fact, not one MSC has me listed as a member( or whatever one would call it)
IMO, they do have this technology, and use it to a degree.
I believe Mystery Shopping is just one tool in the tool box, and remember, Marketing Departments on up to the Executive Level LOVE the power point presentations that the MSC's provide.
If the Marketing Department had the ability to quickly and cheaply provide the information, they would, (as in the case of the Pizza Delivery Company who asks for Pizza pictures from the end user). For the most part, it's easier to sub out to an MSC, and let them do the "research" and supply the eye catching power point which every VP LOVES !!!
----
Back on topic
I still don't see a difference in IC-PRO.
I get the same $15 jobs, with the same $5 bonuses in the areas that no one wants.
In fact, not one MSC has me listed as a member( or whatever one would call it)
I'm not sure if this is the correct way to reply to several posts at the same time or not. If I'm doing this posting incorrectly, please let me know.
Flash – I am currently signed up with 20 companies. I guess that's not a large amount, but that's all I can handle right now.
nicelytwicely – Yes, I was a member of JobSlinger before I signed up for IC Pro. However, the additional emails that I have been receiving since signing up for IC Pro have been coming from companies that are new to me. So, maybe IC Pro is being used as a type of list building system for compies to acquire additional shoppers. Just a thought. Also, the first paragraph of your post, (which is a quote from my original post) is actually a direct quote from the JobSlinger/IC Pro FAQs.
DaScubaLady – I agree with you regarding the types of jobs being offered to me. I’m not getting job offers with higher pay. I’m just getting more job offers of the same type that I have been getting. :-)
Flash – I am currently signed up with 20 companies. I guess that's not a large amount, but that's all I can handle right now.
nicelytwicely – Yes, I was a member of JobSlinger before I signed up for IC Pro. However, the additional emails that I have been receiving since signing up for IC Pro have been coming from companies that are new to me. So, maybe IC Pro is being used as a type of list building system for compies to acquire additional shoppers. Just a thought. Also, the first paragraph of your post, (which is a quote from my original post) is actually a direct quote from the JobSlinger/IC Pro FAQs.
DaScubaLady – I agree with you regarding the types of jobs being offered to me. I’m not getting job offers with higher pay. I’m just getting more job offers of the same type that I have been getting. :-)
Bcavallero
Your responses are just fine for me.
Your responses are just fine for me.
Happily shopping Rhode Island and nearby Massachusetts and Connecticut
I just received the iCP email and I clicked on it. It had most of my information from jobslinger. I have not decided if I want to verify anything yet.
Has anyone applied for a business ID number instead of using a Social Security number.
I recently opened a a business checking account, instead of a personal account for mystery shoppping. The banker thought a having a business identification number was safer than giving out my social security number to so many
companies.
I just filled out the ICP information and was verified. It seemed that they had all my information, except the social security number and logo.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2010 08:27PM by kittybratt.
Has anyone applied for a business ID number instead of using a Social Security number.
I recently opened a a business checking account, instead of a personal account for mystery shoppping. The banker thought a having a business identification number was safer than giving out my social security number to so many
companies.
I just filled out the ICP information and was verified. It seemed that they had all my information, except the social security number and logo.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2010 08:27PM by kittybratt.
I was talking with a shopper the other day who got a business tax ID number and some companies will accept it while others insist on a social security number. So she figures her tax guy will have fun sorting out what came to her personally versus what came to her business . . .
As for a business checking. That becomes a whole different can of worms. There needs to be a whole lot more transparency with money going into and out of a business account than is required for a personal account. And many of our transactions in the field are a combination of personal and business ones. Money can go into or out of a business account with proper tracking of what it is for, but your records need to be clear for each transaction, so withdrawals generally should be by check with notations in the MEMO section if you have check return or documented in your accounting software. You should probably take a "Petty Cash" accounting approach to ATM withdrawals if you do any at all.
If I go to the grocery store on a shop I am unlikely to spend only money I will be reimbursed. I could readily enough purchase just the required item(s) and still be under the maximum reimbursement. But because they will reimburse me up to the maximum reimbursement, as long as I have purchased the required item(s), I always make sure I have spent more than the maximum reimbursement to take full advantage of the reimbursement. Obviously anything over the reimbursement amount is not a business expense but a personal choice. I am not about to pay the reimbursement amount on one credit card and the extra dollar or two of personal expense separately separately. Thus a 'business' credit card has both personal and business expense portions. If I pay the card with a 'business' bank account, I really need to also reimburse the 'business' account with the personal portion.
Keeping the 'pockets' crystal clear as to what is business and what is personal I find is so much easier to treat it all as personal income and expense and use a spreadsheet to sort out what is business. IRS is not going to worry much about what goes into and out of my personal accounts as long as there is no question of fraud. A business account, however, is subject to much more intense scrutiny.
As for a business checking. That becomes a whole different can of worms. There needs to be a whole lot more transparency with money going into and out of a business account than is required for a personal account. And many of our transactions in the field are a combination of personal and business ones. Money can go into or out of a business account with proper tracking of what it is for, but your records need to be clear for each transaction, so withdrawals generally should be by check with notations in the MEMO section if you have check return or documented in your accounting software. You should probably take a "Petty Cash" accounting approach to ATM withdrawals if you do any at all.
If I go to the grocery store on a shop I am unlikely to spend only money I will be reimbursed. I could readily enough purchase just the required item(s) and still be under the maximum reimbursement. But because they will reimburse me up to the maximum reimbursement, as long as I have purchased the required item(s), I always make sure I have spent more than the maximum reimbursement to take full advantage of the reimbursement. Obviously anything over the reimbursement amount is not a business expense but a personal choice. I am not about to pay the reimbursement amount on one credit card and the extra dollar or two of personal expense separately separately. Thus a 'business' credit card has both personal and business expense portions. If I pay the card with a 'business' bank account, I really need to also reimburse the 'business' account with the personal portion.
Keeping the 'pockets' crystal clear as to what is business and what is personal I find is so much easier to treat it all as personal income and expense and use a spreadsheet to sort out what is business. IRS is not going to worry much about what goes into and out of my personal accounts as long as there is no question of fraud. A business account, however, is subject to much more intense scrutiny.
I agree with Flash. I have a business account for well, a real business! Federal Tax ID # and all, and my partner and I have to do a separate return, then attach the K-1 with our personal tax filing.
I do have a separate account for my shopping, but it's a personal one. It goes straight to the checking account, and I access the money by using my debit card for both purchases and cashback. The reason I set one up was originally not because of shopping, but because I got an offer in the amount of $150 to open a new checking account. I decided it would be a good thing for the money I make from shopping and hey, it sure was profitable! :-)
I do have a separate account for my shopping, but it's a personal one. It goes straight to the checking account, and I access the money by using my debit card for both purchases and cashback. The reason I set one up was originally not because of shopping, but because I got an offer in the amount of $150 to open a new checking account. I decided it would be a good thing for the money I make from shopping and hey, it sure was profitable! :-)
Flash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was talking with a shopper the other day who got
> a business tax ID number and some companies will
> accept it while others insist on a social security
> number. So she figures her tax guy will have fun
> sorting out what came to her personally versus
> what came to her business . . .
Maybe the shopper does more than mystery shop for the tax guy to advise getting an EIN? I don't know the situation, but generally, it is unnecessary and could create problems for the mystery shopper. And, as the shopper has discovered, EINs and SSNs are not always interchangeable. Hopefully, the tax guy doesn't charge by the hour as he sorts things out!
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was talking with a shopper the other day who got
> a business tax ID number and some companies will
> accept it while others insist on a social security
> number. So she figures her tax guy will have fun
> sorting out what came to her personally versus
> what came to her business . . .
Maybe the shopper does more than mystery shop for the tax guy to advise getting an EIN? I don't know the situation, but generally, it is unnecessary and could create problems for the mystery shopper. And, as the shopper has discovered, EINs and SSNs are not always interchangeable. Hopefully, the tax guy doesn't charge by the hour as he sorts things out!
That I don't know, but I was certainly thinking that a professional tax preparer would make a bundle off THAT return!
It's time to start thinking about taxes, and preparation. There are a few months of wiggle room to make necessary adjustments.
Whether a CPA, preparer, or second cousin is used to prepare the return, due diligence is essential! New regulations from the IRS, beginning in 2011: "tax return preparers who, for compensation, prepare all, or substantially all, of a federal tax return will be subject to new requirements including: *Registration *Testing *Continuing Education". Still, put them through the wringer and check them out.
Whether a CPA, preparer, or second cousin is used to prepare the return, due diligence is essential! New regulations from the IRS, beginning in 2011: "tax return preparers who, for compensation, prepare all, or substantially all, of a federal tax return will be subject to new requirements including: *Registration *Testing *Continuing Education". Still, put them through the wringer and check them out.
Or, use Turbo Tax and do the simple thing yourself. This is not rocket science, folks.
Based in MD, near DC
Shopping from the Carolinas to New York
Have video cam; will travel
Poor customer service? Don't get mad; get video.
Shopping from the Carolinas to New York
Have video cam; will travel
Poor customer service? Don't get mad; get video.
You bring up a good point, walesmaven. Individuals can use the IRS and State websites to prepare and efile their return, at no charge, if eligibility is met.
Mert,
RE: Maybe the shopper does more than mystery shop for the tax guy to advise getting an EIN? I don't know the situation, but generally, it is unnecessary and could create problems for the mystery shopper. And, as the shopper has discovered, EINs and SSNs are not always interchangeable. Hopefully, the tax guy doesn't charge by the hour as he sorts things out!
Good Point Mert !
My "Tax Guy" has a 'tude on a normal day, so when I asked what happens at tax time when the few MSCs refuse my EIN and use my SS#, he flipped.
He stated that no reputable company would refuse the EIN # and insist on SS# unless they are claiming the person as an employee.
His advice, was to only work for those MSCs who accept the EIN. No exceptions
At first, I thought he was being his usual difficult self, but I later saw his point. If I ever made more than a negligible amount from those using my SS#, it complicates not only the personal return, but also the business return. If you're Married, it affects both your returns, and have an effect on the ability to take deductions, like the IRA/Roth deduction, loss deduction, or take credits like the home improvement credits.
All of which have ceilings based on AGI.
He also stated another concern. If there is a MSC who is misrepresenting a shopper's status, and stating they're an employee. Then the shopper gets the red flag, and the likelihood of an audit is greater.
Not that I will ever make enough MS'ing to really worry about any of this, he makes a good point; especially for those who MS full time and make a full time income.
RE: Maybe the shopper does more than mystery shop for the tax guy to advise getting an EIN? I don't know the situation, but generally, it is unnecessary and could create problems for the mystery shopper. And, as the shopper has discovered, EINs and SSNs are not always interchangeable. Hopefully, the tax guy doesn't charge by the hour as he sorts things out!
Good Point Mert !
My "Tax Guy" has a 'tude on a normal day, so when I asked what happens at tax time when the few MSCs refuse my EIN and use my SS#, he flipped.
He stated that no reputable company would refuse the EIN # and insist on SS# unless they are claiming the person as an employee.
His advice, was to only work for those MSCs who accept the EIN. No exceptions
At first, I thought he was being his usual difficult self, but I later saw his point. If I ever made more than a negligible amount from those using my SS#, it complicates not only the personal return, but also the business return. If you're Married, it affects both your returns, and have an effect on the ability to take deductions, like the IRA/Roth deduction, loss deduction, or take credits like the home improvement credits.
All of which have ceilings based on AGI.
He also stated another concern. If there is a MSC who is misrepresenting a shopper's status, and stating they're an employee. Then the shopper gets the red flag, and the likelihood of an audit is greater.
Not that I will ever make enough MS'ing to really worry about any of this, he makes a good point; especially for those who MS full time and make a full time income.
Hmmm. I don't 'get it'. I use my SS# and file as a Schedule C business. That is all in the normal course of things. A Schedule C business by its very nature could use an EIN or a SSN and presumably could use both. I claim every dollar I am paid (whether as fees, bonuses, or reimbursements) and deduct out the reimbursements as well as my ordinary business expenses. If IRS or anyone else questioned why the taxes were not withheld by the employer, it is because I am an IC. If they withheld taxes they would need to W-2 me and I have never received a W-2 for this business. It is NOT in the interest of any MSC to represent me as an employee because they would need to share the burden of FICA and they aren't about to do that!
ScubaLady,
I think you tax adviser is way, way, off base. I have been an IC in several industries since 1975. Using my SSN has been the advice of several top tax advisors. I think you should talk with alternative tax sources. There is NOTHING about using your SSN that compromises your IC status, period.
I think you tax adviser is way, way, off base. I have been an IC in several industries since 1975. Using my SSN has been the advice of several top tax advisors. I think you should talk with alternative tax sources. There is NOTHING about using your SSN that compromises your IC status, period.
Based in MD, near DC
Shopping from the Carolinas to New York
Have video cam; will travel
Poor customer service? Don't get mad; get video.
Shopping from the Carolinas to New York
Have video cam; will travel
Poor customer service? Don't get mad; get video.
Aside from a small business operation I have with a partner, all of my income for the last nine years has been as an independent contractor. We have a federal tax ID# for the business, but every other source of income is associated with my own SS#. Walesmaven is absolutely correct.
And in today's installment...
I'm sure a lot of us received this email, titled "Help Defend the Mystery Shopping Industry (and get more shops)":
"It's an unusual occasion when dozens of mystery shopping companies make a joint announcement ... but it's also an unusually threatening situation that has brought all of us together.
Recent legal pressures from the federal government and 22 states are requiring mystery shopping companies to provide additional proof that their thousands of mystery shoppers are independent contractors (IC's) or face catastrophic penalties for worker misclassification. Although mystery shoppers such as yourself are clearly IC's, these actions severely threaten the entire mystery shopping industry.
How would this affect you? Fewer shops, lower shop fees, increased paperwork, restrictions on which companies you can contract with, the likelihood that state and/or federal taxes would be withheld from your shop fees ... and possibly the loss of your ability to find work in the mystery shopping business.
In response, we have joined the IC Pro Coalition. It's a centralized registration system for mystery shoppers to submit their legally required independent contractor information to multiple mystery shopping companies all at once.
IC PRO is totally FREE and is built by the makers of SASSIE Mystery Shopping Systems and JobSlinger. We rely on their expertise and integrity for our businesses and we have total confidence that they will treat your information with the same confidentiality and respect.
Every time you apply for a shop you'll be designated as an IC Pro, a huge contributor to you receiving first consideration for that shop from our schedulers! We will know that you (as a registered IC Pro) are "safer" to contract with than an unregistered mystery shopper. In fact, we anticipate that IC documentation may eventually become a requirement to operate as a shopper in our industry."
I'm sure a lot of us received this email, titled "Help Defend the Mystery Shopping Industry (and get more shops)":
"It's an unusual occasion when dozens of mystery shopping companies make a joint announcement ... but it's also an unusually threatening situation that has brought all of us together.
Recent legal pressures from the federal government and 22 states are requiring mystery shopping companies to provide additional proof that their thousands of mystery shoppers are independent contractors (IC's) or face catastrophic penalties for worker misclassification. Although mystery shoppers such as yourself are clearly IC's, these actions severely threaten the entire mystery shopping industry.
How would this affect you? Fewer shops, lower shop fees, increased paperwork, restrictions on which companies you can contract with, the likelihood that state and/or federal taxes would be withheld from your shop fees ... and possibly the loss of your ability to find work in the mystery shopping business.
In response, we have joined the IC Pro Coalition. It's a centralized registration system for mystery shoppers to submit their legally required independent contractor information to multiple mystery shopping companies all at once.
IC PRO is totally FREE and is built by the makers of SASSIE Mystery Shopping Systems and JobSlinger. We rely on their expertise and integrity for our businesses and we have total confidence that they will treat your information with the same confidentiality and respect.
Every time you apply for a shop you'll be designated as an IC Pro, a huge contributor to you receiving first consideration for that shop from our schedulers! We will know that you (as a registered IC Pro) are "safer" to contract with than an unregistered mystery shopper. In fact, we anticipate that IC documentation may eventually become a requirement to operate as a shopper in our industry."
Hmmm. Why does the Emperor's New Clothes come to mind?
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.