I received an email today from Customer Impact, asking me to sign up for I C Pro. Here is the (lengthy, sorry) email from them:


"Recent legal pressures from the federal government and 22 states are requiring mystery shopping companies to provide additional proof that their thousands of mystery shoppers are independent contractors (IC's) or face catastrophic penalties for worker misclassification. Although mystery shoppers such as yourself are clearly IC's, these actions severely threaten the entire mystery shopping industry.

How would this affect you? Fewer shops, lower shop fees, increased paperwork, restrictions on which companies you can contract with, the likelihood that state and/or federal taxes would be withheld from your shop fees ... and possibly the loss of your ability to find work in the mystery shopping business.

In response, we have joined the IC Pro Coalition. It's a centralized registration system for mystery shoppers to submit their legally required independent contractor information to multiple mystery shopping companies all at once.

IC PRO is totally FREE and is built by the makers of SASSIE Mystery Shopping Systems and JobSlinger. We rely on their expertise and integrity for our businesses and we have total confidence that they will treat your information with the same confidentiality and respect.



Register for IC Pro (it's FREE) and one of these badges
will ALWAYS appear next to your shop applications
(the more info you provide, the more IC Pro points you'll receive)


Every time you apply for a shop you'll be designated as an IC Pro, a huge contributor to you receiving first consideration for that shop from our schedulers! We will know that you (as a registered IC Pro) are "safer" to contract with than an unregistered mystery shopper. In fact, we anticipate that IC documentation may eventually become a requirement to operate as a shopper in our industry.

We urge you to join us and register for the IC Pro program!
(It's 100% free and available on JobSlinger.com)"


Obviously, I can read...but what is the real agenda here? Starts off sounding like a way to certify that you are, in fact, an "Independent Contractor"...and ends up "It's a centralized registration system for mystery shoppers to submit their legally required independent contractor information to multiple mystery shopping companies all at once."

I'm sorry...what has one got to do with the other? Not that getting your name out to more companies is bad, but it leaves me wondering, WHAT IS THE REAL AGENDA ?

Fellow Shoppers: Any thoughts?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2010 03:27PM by Wabbitmom.

The Search feature doesn't always work, but here's a link to recent discussion. [www.mysteryshopforum.com]

I got that email to; It seems like another way to get shoppers to pay for job leads. It also is playing to peoples fears and emotions much like politicians do. In general I feel that alot of jobs are actually jobs and not ICs. Especially when they have every detail , minute and second mapped out and deny your report if it is not perfect. Sure some jobs really are ICs but obviously not all are!
In fact many fail the basic IRS definitions of such.

I Reccommend that Noone Joins This IC Pro!!!!!

I haven't seen any 'pay to shop' aspect of the IC Pro or of the basic Jobslinger.com (though yes, there is a JobslingerPlus that is fee based).

I readily provide my data to my 'employing' companies when I apply to work for/with them. I see no reason to provide that information to a third party who is not paying me for work done. And yes, it does play into the MSPA paranoia that they may need to some day have their schedulers and editors be employees and fairly pay shoppers. Interestingly enough there are good companies out there for whom at least the schedulers ARE employees already.

The real agenda is that the government is sticking their unintelligent nose into people's businesses. They are afraid that mystery shoppers are not reporting $5 or $10 shop fees or the independent contractor is padding expenses. I can make more money if I went panhandling, which is why I leave a lot of shops on the table. I am an independent contractor.

Maybe the government should look at the issue of squeezing nickles from taxpayers in a more LOGICAL manner. DO NOT TAX INCOME! TAX PEOPLE WHEN THEY SPEND THE MONEY. Even those millionaires and the poorest people must spend their money. If you robbed a bank, defrauded investors, robbed someone at gunpoint on the street or prostituted your body on a street corner, bought a million dollar yacht or twenty million dollar house in the mountains or moved money out of the country, the money would be taxed.

What about the poor accountants who cannot charge you $200 to so a simple return for a taxpayer who is fearful of making an innocent mistake? Accountants can monitor business activities, and paper trails to ensure that business is taking the taxes out on the merchandise and services.

What about the taxpayers rich and poor that will be paying for services based on the income they spend. If you are able to enjoy the freedoms of being in America where you can be anything you want to be, and you make more, you should contribute more to the upkeep of America. If you use school books you must pay for them. If you are old and do not need school books they should not have to pay for them. Parents who are having children are more able to pay than old people who pay property taxes.

Easy there ShopNflop!

It may be the govt sticking its nose where it doesn't belong, but some MSC's give preference to those registered with IC just because it gets Uncle Sam off their backs. Signing up for IC Pro doesn't really have a negative impact on you, so if signing up means that you have preference, then I say why not?

And you are seeing strong indication that preference is being given in your case? I can certainly understand that shoppers who have not signed up with a lot of companies may be seeing shops from companies they never knew existed, but we are talking here receiving preferential treatment, which is what is implied by IC Pro. Somehow it smells like all the 'advantages' that certified shoppers were supposed to receive. . .

I have seen specific MSC's that post (on their own websites) that IC Pro signers will be given preference. Personally, I don't see any reason to not be part of it. All it's really saying is that you agree that you're responsible for your own taxes and whatnot.

I make that statement every time I register with a company for actual work. Would you like to send me your personal information as well, including your social security number? My point is that Jobslinger is NOT an MSP and they have no earthly reason to have any of my personal information beyond what I needed to provide to find shops posted in areas of my choice. To give them more is to feed the paranoia of the MSPA about their 'pending loss of' the right to hire shoppers, schedulers and editors for virtually nothing as Independent Contractors. I didn't write letters to my Congressmen on their behalf and I don't plan to in the future. The MSPA owes more to the industry and its corporate constituents than chasing boogey men and Jobslinger just reinforces the Emperor's New Clothes aspect of those boogeymen.

Hmm. Interesting. I guess I never thought about it that way...

Agreed, Flash. Why indeed should we provide personal data to a third party? This is not our agenda. And, yes, they do say that IC PRO signers will get preference. There has to be some benefit for shoppers, otherwise why would we do it? They want us to do it for their benefit. How to convince us? If a shopper believes an MSP will give preference to IC PRO shoppers, the shopper would be more likely to register, right? What else might they offer to get shoppers to do this for them? More money to IC PRO registrants? I'm not seeing it. More jobs/preference? Hmmmmmm. They say so. "They" say a lot of things, some of which are true, some are semi-true ...... and some just don't seem to be true at all. How many e-mails have you opened from a scheduler that says "FAST! EASY! QUICK MONEY!" .....?

I'm not saying it's not true, only you can't necessarily believe everything you read as gospel.

If you join this national database, all of your shop history may be available at one location. Think of it. The number of shops you have done for the year, the total amount of all of your fees, the total value of your reimbursed expenses--all of this available to any federal, state or local official interested in knowing more about your personal business.

Spread the word to shopper friends and other forums. Don't join ICPro!

Samwise, I suspect that may be a little paranoia on the shopper side of the equation. I frankly have very little concern about the federal or state officials having access to the information because that would only be the taxing agencies and I already share that information with them personally, though I am always a little amused that 1099s issued rarely match my records and check stubs perfectly. But I fail to see companies providing fees, reimbursements, etc. with each other through a third party to whom they all supposedly have access. This might expose to other companies who their good shoppers were and that might lead to shopper poaching just as MSPs poach each others' clients.

samwise,
I have no qualms about federal or state tax agencies having access to what I earn and get in reimbursements. They have a right to that info and I give it to them once per year. And, I have no problem with the Sassie system, which also runs the assignment and pay records for a huge number of our shops. Your personal records are more at risk on your home computer than they are in their system, I'll wager.

And, as Flash has noted, the MSCs would be in total uproar if there was any chance that the identities and pay of their best, most active , shoppers were available to their competitors! (Not to mention the Anti-Trust Act implications of MSCs sharing too much information with one another!!! The mind boggles at their paranoia level if such sharing were even contemplated!)

Where Flash and I differ (In a very collegial manner) is that I have joined IC Pro, and she does not wish to do so. Different strokes for different folks, and all that. So far I have had emails from favorite schedulers saying that what they see is that the IC Pro designation now appears next to my other qualifications, such as my average shop scores, video certifications, etc. in their system.

Awww Walesmaven, we don't get to slug it out in the back alley? Frankly, though, I am waiting for them to come up with something that actually separates the sheep from the goats in this business and the "Pro" in "IC Pro" isn't designed for that since every newbie can sign up with it and "Certification" isn't that for all the reasons mentioned elsewhere. But my guess is that it is never going to happen and with each new company or company that finally has a client in my market it will be back to "newbie" status to build up a reputation. I laughed the other day because there was a new client with a company I signed up with years ago and after taking a job I went to update my profile. I signed up with them long enough ago that I had performed only 400 jobs.

I got that e-mail on a day I wasn't feeling well and was definitely cranky. I told them off in Zoltarian. Doubt if they'll ever bother me again.

I looked at the list that I supposedly am signed up with. I was surprised that I use some of those companies, logging in without sassie. I also picked up some companies that I didn't know about by checking "my" list. I'm confused how the website can figure out what my user name is with these companies and that I am a member of them. For some, it is not the user name I have. I had to look up every one of them to see if the password is the same. When I signed up, some of the companies told me to use my email address as the password, but others let me pick my own. I haven't used JobSlinger in quite some time because I didn't like the way it worked.

Thank you, Walesmaven! I was afraid I was the only shopper for IC PRO. I mean, we ARE supposed to pay our taxes. It IS the law, and frankly, I don't know why it should matter if "Uncle Sam" has access to it, as we are supposed to report on it anyway.
I do agree that there is potential that it might lower shopper pay, but then again, it might raise it. Who knows. If the MSCs are stupid enough to lower their pay, then they'll just find that there will be a lot fewer people willing to accept them.
Fewer completed shops = increasingly pissed off company that the MSC isn't delivering = MSC doesn't loses its clients as they'll go to different MSCs to get them completed.

Well I can only get to 60% verified. It refuses to validate my name and SS number which is the same for all Sassie sites, (worth 30%), and I cannot make a badge (worth 10%). So I am half way there, or sitting on a fence, or something.

pixie_dust_711 Wrote:
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> Thank you, Walesmaven! I was afraid I was the only
> shopper for IC PRO. I mean, we ARE supposed to pay
> our taxes. It IS the law

Pixie_dust, no one here is saying don't pay taxes.

57carol,
One the other forum the folks who created the data entry site have been replying to shoppers' questions about "failed" matches, and the logo thing. So far they seem to have been able to sort out every problem. It took me three tries to get a logo, lol. There is also one-on-one email support provided there.

Good luck, and please keep us posted on your progress getting this untangled.

lisams901 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Pixie_dust, no one here is saying don't pay taxes.

I realize people aren't saying don't pay taxes, but if you do report on your taxes, then it shouldn't be a problem that the government has access to our work records.

At this point, I'm still not inclined to do this. While it may be true that there is no reason to NOT sign up, I still fail to see the reason TO sign up. When/if I do, I'll sign up. Until then, I pass.

pixie_dust_711 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I realize people aren't saying don't pay taxes,
> but if you do report on your taxes, then it
> shouldn't be a problem that the government has
> access to our work records.


This is NOT about the government having access to our work records. IC PRO is not a governmental entity. When you sign up with IC PRO, you are not signing up with the government and you are not giving work records to IRS or any other taxing agency. This is about a third party having access to our work records and personal data. This has NOTHING to do with taxes. Apparently sam has an issue with taxes, and one other shopper commented that she does not report income if it is under $600 and she does not receive a 1099. I think most posters have acknowledged that taxes are due on all money earned, so some minority of shoppers may believe this will show tax avoidance. It is true that at some point, IC PRO records may become available to IRS or other taxing entities, but the issue for most of us has nothing to do with taxes. As nicely so nicely put it, I choose not to sign up because I see the benefit to the MSPs but I do not, at this time, see a benefit to me. Maybe I will see a benefit in the future, and at that point, maybe I will choose to sign up.

edited because I can't spell....LOL

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2010 03:48PM by AustinMom.

The IC Pro program is for the MSCs mostly. Under the proposed tax legislation that The Obahma Administration has proposed we would all have to become employees of the MSCs and get paid as an employee. Yes, the entire blame is on the current administration this time. The main purpose is for the collection of national health insurance taxes on all employees.

I am a different breed of shopper, in that I also am an owner operator in the long haul trucking industry. This intire industry is also in the crosshairs of the proposed legislation. Because I have one main source of work, the proposed legislation and tax rules would require me to be paid as an employee of the national company and my truck sold or parked. I would need to drive the company's truck. The bad part of this whole deal is that the company, I have my truck leased to, does not own any trucks at this time.

It always amazes me how people with out even an internet news search on a subject will claim to state an opinion on facts that they have not researched. The trucking industry has devoted hours and hours along with pages and pages of documents to fight the proposed changes in the US Tax code. The Mystery shopping industry is just now reacting to the possible change and is trying to prove that we all work for multiple companies and truly are independent contractors that take work as we see fit. The IC Pro database is just show the Obahma Administration and congress how many companies an individual shopper contracts with.

Anybody in The coast to coast scheduling database got their version of the IC Pro in the form of a survey this morning.

So the bottom line is :
Yes, this is a reaction to the government and Yes, you can thank the Obahma Administration for the need to start jumping through these to hoops to try to maintain your Independent Contractor status under the proposed tax law changes.

Whew, too much writing on a Saturday Morning.........

IF you are looking for reasons to feel dubious, consider what other third parties in work relationships collect your personal information and have influence over your right to be hired.

Employment agency? Union?

The trouble in drawing any comparison here is that we (shoppers) are not the client of IC Pro and have no say in how it operates. While shoppers are an important part of making the industry run, we do not select the software package utilized in our work. The MSC makes that choice and pays for it, and we are forced to live with it.

Ironically, when considering the above, the inclusion of IC Pro makes the relationship seem even MORE like we are employees to me, not less. Clearly the invention of the system is an attempt to secure and expand the presence of SurfMerchants in the MS world, but the jury is still out on if that's a good thing.

Weather or not it was intended, the next logical step in the process of protecting the MSCs if the government would elect to start enforcing stronger IC regulation would be to become a central employment agency that makes us all an employee of record. They could then offer our services to the MSCs.

This would, in effect, bring about everything that the MSPA and IC Pro inventors have been posting to scare us into joining! Shopping would become more expensive for MSCs and there could potentially be less work.

In my opinion, the best thing that shoppers can do to protect their rights as contractors is to work for as many different companies as possible, on as many software systems as possible.

As far as the scare of legislation goes; In the tax world, MSing is hardly a blip on the radar of the IRS. The amount of shoppers that generate a 1099 is miniscule and the amount of tax due on our earnings is small potatoes to them. If we are regulated, it would be only as a side-effect of the government going after big businesses that are reaping huge profits from skirting the employment regulations.

Which is all fascinating, Vanster, but the concerns about IC status go back a whole lot further than this! They were out there years ago when I was doing IC work for a guy and we went through the IRS critera of what DOES and DOES NOT make an IC. He would have preferred I use his equipment but we realized that could conflict with the IRS regs. I used my own equipment, picked up work from him on a regular basis and carefully invoiced him per job. He was delighted because work got done on time, I was delighted because I could earn a whole lot more per hour than sitting in his office. This is not an Obama thing, the concerns go back years before that, as do the abuses. It may come to the fore now because of IC non payment of their fair share of taxes, but its roots lie in Corporate abuse of the practice.

I know that's is difficult to keep politics out of the discussion when IRS regulation is at the heart of it, but the discussion/threat of IC regulation has been on the table long before the current administration came into office, so can we elect to leave government-bashing out of this discussion?

Seems like the root of everyone's frustration is the bottom line dollar they are taking home. Nobody wants to take less money, be it truckers, shoppers, government or MSCs.

My main work is in an industry that caved in to that pressure long ago and I have been an employee with health benefits and better pay ever since. It really is a mixed bag of benefits & troubles.

*Edited because Flash & I cross-posted (great minds and all that...) and I can't stand my Saturday AM spelling errors!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2010 04:51PM by SteveSoCal.

vanster2000 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> It always amazes me how people with out even an
> internet news search on a subject will claim to
> state an opinion on facts that they have not
> researched.

Yup. On this we can agree.