And I know some of you do, and I think it's a good thing. Anyway, there was a thread here about wording in shop instructions as to the time of visit for a shop. Many of us complain that instructions are often worded ambiguously or, at the least, aren't crystal clear. (We've discussed this about other issues, too, not just timings.)

To me, it would make sense to not only slightly re-word some of the timing guidelines for clarity, but also include an example in the instructions, along with the rule. E.g.:

"You must begin your shop no later than one hour prior to the location's closing." (Rather than, "You must visit one hour prior to closing," which really means you have to get there exactly one hour before the place closes.) "For example, if the location closes at 7 p.m., you must enter by 6 p.m. at the latest."

The above would make sense to any shopper, regardless of whether he or she had ever completed that particular shop or even one like it. Granted, there will still be shoppers who won't read the instructions or who still may not "get it," but chances are this would cut down on questions from shoppers and misinterpretation by editors.

Thank you for reading.

Thanks for the suggestions!
If anyone ever sees anything that is confusing with Servimer instructions, please let me know.
We want to do everything possible for our awesome shoppers to be able to succeed.

Being a few minutes early should not be a reason to deny a shop. Denying anyone payment for this will means you risk losing the shopper. Many shoppers who are a few minutes early will just round up the time. This isn't like doing a pizza shop where they time each section.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2018 09:04PM by johnb974.

I've never seen a shop that specifies a shopper has to arrive at exactly a certain time. The problem is that the way some shops are worded ("...visit one hour before closing" ) doesn't mean what it's supposed to mean.

The other problem is shoppers being LATE to a shop, i.e., arriving 55 minutes prior to closing instead of one hour; that's a reason to have a shop denied, and fairly, too. So an example in the instructions might be helpful.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2018 11:37PM by BirdyC.

@BirdyC wrote:

I've never seen a shop that specifies a shopper has to arrive at exactly a certain time. The problem is that the way some shops are worded ("...visit one hour before closing") doesn't mean what it's supposed to mean.

The other problem is shoppers being LATE to a shop, i.e., arriving 55 minutes prior to closing instead of one hour; that's a reason to have a shop denied, and fairly, too. So an example in the instructions might be helpful.

I've seen reports that state you must arrive a 4pm, if you arrive at 3:55 your shop will be denied. Some shops are very specific. I can understand arriving late and being denied. I did have one phone shop that said arrive before 5 PM. I got to the shop around 5:15, so I didn't do the shop. I had other shops in the area.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2018 10:21PM by johnb974.

@johnb974 wrote:

I've seen reports that state you must arrive a 4pm, if you arrive at 3:55 your shop will be denied.

I'm glad I've never had a shop that's been so specific! I have one shop I do sometimes that specifies a very narrow time frame, but they don't get that exact. Thank goodness.

Hmmm, I have done many a lunch shop where it states you must shop between 11 a.m. and 2 p.m. (or sometimes 1:30 p.m.) or a dinner shop from 5 p.m. to 8 p.m. or 9 p.m. They don't want you arriving 5 minutes early, you sit in your car and wait until the start time so you don't get your shop invalidated. The MSC that does the Applebee's carryout shops doesn't want shoppers completing ANY portion of the shop, including the phone call to order, outside of the time frame, not even by a few minutes.

I've had those, too, and it's easy to make sure you shop within the required time frames. Like you say, if I'm early, I sit in the car a few minutes. We don't have Applebee's shops in our area anymore, so I've never seen that particular set of instructions. I assume they're clear!

But I've never seen one that requires a shopper to arrive at exactly a certain time, as johnb relates. That seems odd to me.

Yes, me neither. I always see shops that state to shop within a certain time frame but never have I had one where you had to arrive at exactly a specific time. Very strange indeed. Maybe that's not what he meant.

Many lifetimes ago, I worked closing shifts... sometimes, we were encouraged to begin the closing processes as early as possible so that everyone could leave as close to the posted closing time as possible. Various businesses have different closing procedures, and some employees and transactions are not affected by these activities. For the sake of shoppers and employees who might have things to do later, I vote for clear guidelines regarding how late in each business day shops can begin or end. But why an exact start time? A specified start time seems like an appointment at the salon, or an appointment for the annual dental checkup. Is this for the sake of the location's security system, Homeland Security, or another shopper who is assigned to make covert observation of the shop? Is it needed to ensure that the shop ends and the shopper/alleged customer leaves the premises before the location closes?

Wait. It could be a test of queueing. Will other customers make purchases based upon the presence of the shopper and a possible scarcity, the limited time frame, or some other factor in the study?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2018 12:45AM by Shop-et-al.

When I get somewhere a few minutes before the start time of a shop I generally wait at least 5 minutes beyond the earliest start time just in case my watch or the car clock or some other clock is fast. If their register time is way off there is not much that can be done except report it.
I did do a restaurant shop in the last hour once where it was okay to come at any time. 30 minutes before closing they started sweeping the floor, they closed down the condiments bar and took everything away even without asking me if I would need anything else and they put all the chairs up as people left. I felt like a hostage in a sea of chairs on tables eating my $20 dinner. Some other customers came in for a carry out order and they had to have them bring all the condiments back out and take chairs down to sit on while waiting for their order. I reported all that but it was too late I guess since the place went out of business a few months later. I was not surprised due to customer service but the food was good and interesting and they had a following of customers who were sad. Shopping in the last hour seems important to me especially in a restaurant where the prices remain just as high and they have closed half the things down already.

As a former store owner, the decision on what stops when needs to be made by the owner and made clear to both staff and the public. In my case, our doors were open until posted closing time. We would encourage customers to finish shopping by closing. If someone came in 5 minutes before closing and were rushing to shop, we'd help them and stay later, if needed, but if someone came in to browse, we'd let them know at closing that we'd love to see them on our next open day.

Staff must be paid for hours worked. They also have the right to know that they can be expected to stay until a certain time. I told my staff, that I expected that it could take them a half hour after close to complete their tasks. I did not want them vacuuming when customers were present...that's unpleasant and they were not available to help. I didn't mind closing one register or pre-counting money, in case all remaining sales were by card.

I used to tell them, "the customer is not always right, but I don't care who's right, the customer is always the customer."

Most retail places may take a half hour to close. I would avoid most around that time. On the other hand, I expect a store to be ready for me within 5 minutes of opening time. Open and Close should be customer terms.

Restaurants seem to be different. They may be open until a certain time, but i consider the last hour to be iffy. The waiters may only get $2-3/hour for cleaning up.

johnb974
I once performed a restaurant shop, completed the report within 4 hours after finishing the shop. My shop was denied payment because I ordered my first drink at what my phone indicated was 10:00 pm but the receipt indicated that it was 9:58 pm. I was so infuriated that I wrote several emails and the payment was finally authorized to be paid 1 1/2 months after being denied.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2018 09:54PM by ALLFORtheSMONEY.

JASFLALMT
Oh, I agree, the problem with the 2 minutes before is when you are using your cell phone as your clock and you get inside the shop, restaurant or establishment and notice that their clocks are off. I have learned to take the picture of a clock if there is one and if not when I receive the receipt I take a photo of the time on the receipt next to my cell phone. That helps when there are time discrepancies​.

Thzts an excellent idea. I think even better might be a screenshot of your phone clock since often clocks on the wall inside of businesses are off (the clock at the post office today was 3 minutes fast).

I've seen gas station receipts be off by over 40 minutes before. Older electronics can time drift a lot if they are never synched up.

@johnb974 wrote:

Being a few minutes early should not be a reason to deny a shop. Denying anyone payment for this will means you risk losing the shopper. Many shoppers who are a few minutes early will just round up the time. This isn't like doing a pizza shop where they time each section.

Why shouldn't it be reason. For a lot of shops that have specific times there are specific reasons. Usually they are done for different work shifts or when specific things are happening. If you go in for a 4:00 shop at 3:55 you will likely encounter an employee who is about to get off work and not the one who is just arriving. The one getting off work will have possibly been evaluated in a shop with an earlier time frame. So now you have two evaluations for one employee. That is cheating the end client who is expecting evaluations of two employees.

@ALLFORtheSMONEY wrote:

johnb974
I once performed a restaurant shop, completed the report within 4 hours after finishing the shop. My shop was denied payment because I ordered my first drink at what my phone indicated was 10:00 pm but the receipt indicated that it was 9:58 pm. I was so infuriated that I wrote several emails and the payment was finally authorized to be paid 1 1/2 after being denied.

That is why I round up or down. No way to tell who's time is right.

I have asked in the past for permission to enter a restaurant shop a few minutes early so I can order a drink on happy hour prices. I have been granted the permission in those few cases. I still get to the table during the stated shop time but I get a bartender a few minutes early. I have not seen the bartenders changing shifts at the end of happy hour. The main reason I have done that is because reimbursement so often is so cut to the bone of the cheapest menu items that saving a few bucks on the initial drink is the difference between out of pocket and just squeaking through or ordering overpriced bread as an appetizer over ordering more tasty overpriced something else more substantial.

Hey, new shoppers, ignore John. He has stated more than once in his forum posts in other threads that he lies about his shop times and has said that other shoppers should lie about the times of their shop if need be. DON'T lie. If you arrive a few minutes early for a 5:00 pm shop, sit in your car and wait. I sometimes wait until 5 minutes past the time just to be on the safe side. Whatever you do, DO NOT LIE about your shop times.

@johnb974 wrote:

That is why I round up or down. No way to tell who's time is right.

I did a Chillis shop last week. We had to do it between 6 and 9 PM. We got there at 6:55 and left at 9:00. They were not busy at all.

I did not end up doing the shop, but I considered a bar integrity shop that was very specific about my start and end times. The issue was simple: The client wanted to have the entire evening shifted watched, but not by the same person. So, four shoppers were to be scheduled for ninety minutes each. to cover 6PM to midnight. The precise timings were necessary in order to coordinate shopper efforts...I've also seen some valet parking shops where a specific cashier was to be shopped and the only way to catch the target was to arrive and depart at very specific times. The time frame was coordinated with a break schedule.

As shoppers we don't always know the reason behind guidelines. However, we are bound by them if we take an assignment. If we don't like the requirements, as IC's we simply don't pick up the shop.

I live on the west coast. One time I was working on a report that was due at Midnight. I took a break around 9:30 pm, came back at 10pm to find my report was closed. I did not have access to it. I e-mailed the scheduler the next day to find out what happened. I was told my report was not done by midnight. I told them I live on the west coast, it was 10pm. I was told it was after midnight where they live, report denied. No where in the guide lines does it say midnight West coast or East coast. My report was still denied.

There are a couple of things I'd like to see more MSC's take a look at...

1. Guidelines... It seems fairly common, as guidelines are changed for different clients, periods, etc., to simply take an old document and edit it for the new assignment. While this is certainly fine and save time, proofreading is important. I have had many shops where one sentence says, "Call and make an appointment" and the very next says, "Do not call at all." Or, directions clearly state, "Don't make a call" and yet, there is mandatory part of the survey in which details about a phone call are demanded. When this happens, I have to contact the scheduler for clarity. The scheduler then often has to contact a project manager, who passes work back to me through the scheduler. I understand that blunders happen. (I make more than my fair share.) However, to have the same issue with the same MSC one, two and eight weeks later can be frustrating.

2. Scenarios... They need to be changed periodically, especially if there is a specific phrase that the shopper must use verbatim. There is one client that I have shopped regularly for better than two years. When every I catch a more senior employee, I get the sense, the moment I use the catch phrase, that we are just playing a game. With how frequently the client is shopped, I would be surprised if they didn't know I was a shopper the moment I uttered the phrase...... Also, not every scenario works for every one of a client's stores. I mentioned my valet parking issue in another thread. In Seattle, street parking is free after five or six o'clock. There are frequently valet parking shops that must be done in the evenings where I am not permitted to be a guest of the hotel (of course, this make sense). However, when I pull up to the valet, they look at me funny. Then they take my car as they should, move it ten feet to the free street parking (only overnight guests get the garage), and, when I return, simply walk me to my car.

I just did one shop where they require you to call the store first. Several times it says you must call first. But there's no mention in the report of any call. They're asking me to do something that isn't required to be in the report. So why have the shopper do this?

One time they assigned me a weekday lunch shop only for me to have to inform them the restaurant is not open for lunch on weekdays. Does the client not know when their restaurants are open for business? Really messed up my plans for the day.

One shop for a chain restaurant I was told to order just one kind of sandwich. I went there and asked for that sandwich. They never heard of it. I went back and told the MSC. The next day all those shops, for that chain were removed. I was told those shops were now on hold. They never appeared again.

I am convinced, that in some cases also specific time in the guidelines is stated so that they could review the shop on "tapes" from their surveillance cameras. I have seen instructions that would say the shop will be denied if they see on video that I didn't go to evaluate the restroom)

@johnb974 wrote:

I just did one shop where they require you to call the store first. Several times it says you must call first. But there's no mention in the report of any call. They're asking me to do something that isn't required to be in the report. So why have the shopper do this?

To ensure the location is open. Because things happen. Once for ACL I was doing a lunch shop. Many of their shops require you call first. I didn't because it's a restaurant that's always open. I got there to find that a water main had busted half a block away and compromised their water system, so the health department shut them down until it got fixed.