@isaiah58 wrote:
"The court set a strict new test: Workers must be treated as employees, not independent contractors, if their jobs are central to a company’s core business or if the bosses direct the way the work is done. For instance, a solo plumber with his own company who is hired by a bakery to fix a leak can be an independent contractor. But a plumber working regularly for a plumbing company and sent out on jobs must be an employee."
We are not in a workplace and not sent out on jobs. We choose our jobs and define our work schedule.
@tstewart3 wrote:
@isaiah58 wrote:
"The court set a strict new test: Workers must be treated as employees, not independent contractors, if their jobs are central to a company’s core business or if the bosses direct the way the work is done. For instance, a solo plumber with his own company who is hired by a bakery to fix a leak can be an independent contractor. But a plumber working regularly for a plumbing company and sent out on jobs must be an employee."
We are not in a workplace and not sent out on jobs. We choose our jobs and define our work schedule.
Due to the control that MSCs have over where we work, how we do the job and how much we are paid, the only reason we are not consideted employees now is the contract we sign specifically saying we are independent contractors. If the state of California invalidates those contracts we would be considered employees.
@sandyf wrote:
I have been a mystery shopper for years and years now. There has been no time when the msc's have dictated anything to me. I look at a job offering, see what is asks for and then decide if I want to apply for it. I do not get fired if I do not apply for a job. I am not assigned work by anyone unless I first agree to abide by the rules of that specific job by applying for it after I see what the rules are. I don't know what kind of mystery shopping you do where ever you live but out here in California my jobs are not dictated to me.
The same with an independent contractor who is a plumber with their own plumbing business. They are contacted by a consumer or they go door to door and contact consumers. The consumer tells them they want a pipe fixed and may tell them they want PVC used. The consumer says I am home Mondays and Wednesdays from 10-1 and that is when I would like the job done. You will need to clean up the area before you leave and make sure you are wearing clean clothing. You need to bring your own tools. The consumer in this case is the msc for our jobs. The consumer might say "I can pay you $75 and no more." The plumber can then accept the job or say they are never available during those hours and reject the job or negotiate a bonus of another $10...just like us.
@tstewart3 wrote:
@isaiah58 wrote:
"The court set a strict new test: Workers must be treated as employees, not independent contractors, if their jobs are central to a company’s core business or if the bosses direct the way the work is done. For instance, a solo plumber with his own company who is hired by a bakery to fix a leak can be an independent contractor. But a plumber working regularly for a plumbing company and sent out on jobs must be an employee."
We are not in a workplace and not sent out on jobs. We choose our jobs and define our work schedule.
Due to the control that MSCs have over where we work, how we do the job and how much we are paid, the only reason we are not consideted employees now is the contract we sign specifically saying we are independent contractors. If the state of California invalidates those contracts we would be considered employees.
@Shopkeeper wrote:
Here are some steps to ponder:
Formulate most assignments to be app-based.
Raise the assignment fees.
Encourage IC's to be contracted with multiple MSP's.
Offer higher PAD and incentives.
Eliminate assignment narratives that lead to Editors grading IC's input.
Structure guidelines to be less about how the IC's conduct their business and more about the observations the Client wants to be revealed.
Read the article and comment. [nyti.ms]
@tstewart3 wrote:
@sandyf wrote:
I have been a mystery shopper for years and years now. There has been no time when the msc's have dictated anything to me. I look at a job offering, see what is asks for and then decide if I want to apply for it. I do not get fired if I do not apply for a job. I am not assigned work by anyone unless I first agree to abide by the rules of that specific job by applying for it after I see what the rules are. I don't know what kind of mystery shopping you do where ever you live but out here in California my jobs are not dictated to me.
The same with an independent contractor who is a plumber with their own plumbing business. They are contacted by a consumer or they go door to door and contact consumers. The consumer tells them they want a pipe fixed and may tell them they want PVC used. The consumer says I am home Mondays and Wednesdays from 10-1 and that is when I would like the job done. You will need to clean up the area before you leave and make sure you are wearing clean clothing. You need to bring your own tools. The consumer in this case is the msc for our jobs. The consumer might say "I can pay you $75 and no more." The plumber can then accept the job or say they are never available during those hours and reject the job or negotiate a bonus of another $10...just like us.
@tstewart3 wrote:
@isaiah58 wrote:
"The court set a strict new test: Workers must be treated as employees, not independent contractors, if their jobs are central to a company’s core business or if the bosses direct the way the work is done. For instance, a solo plumber with his own company who is hired by a bakery to fix a leak can be an independent contractor. But a plumber working regularly for a plumbing company and sent out on jobs must be an employee."
We are not in a workplace and not sent out on jobs. We choose our jobs and define our work schedule.
Due to the control that MSCs have over where we work, how we do the job and how much we are paid, the only reason we are not consideted employees now is the contract we sign specifically saying we are independent contractors. If the state of California invalidates those contracts we would be considered employees.
I spent the biggest chunk my career in public accounting in CA. One of the tasks was to evaluate if workers for clients were properly classified as an independent contractors or employees. Stakes were high, if the state came in (evaluating 3 to 5 years after) and decided that the workers were employees and not independent contractors the company/client owed all the payroll taxes that should have been collected plus penalties and interest.
The one thing you left out of your List of Demands is how they do the job. As a plumber they know what they're doing and you were not giving them a list of how to do their job. Those standards are set by the contractors license board not you. You are giving direction of you want the pipe fixed but he's the one follows the standards set by the licensing board. You might think you have control over how they do their job but they're not going to do anything contrary to affect their license.
Why don't you come up with a similar list of demands for all the MSCs and see how much you're going to work? You might think you have the control but you don't. If you want to work you have to be flexible. The state of California is not going to evaluate whether a worker is an employee or independent contractor in the same way. They have a vested interest and making the maximum amount of workers in California employees. They collect more payroll taxes that way and that is what is driving AB5.
@AZwolfman wrote:
2. Most assignments pay significantly more than the same assignments pay under the IC system currently used in most states.
3. IC's are not specifically encouraged to contract with multiple MSP's, but they are welcome to do so if they wish.
4. I have not known PAD or bonuses to be higher or lower with one system over the other.
@bgriffin wrote:
@AZwolfman wrote:
2. Most assignments pay significantly more than the same assignments pay under the IC system currently used in most states.
3. IC's are not specifically encouraged to contract with multiple MSP's, but they are welcome to do so if they wish.
4. I have not known PAD or bonuses to be higher or lower with one system over the other.
I have to disagree with these 3 points.
2. Simply not true. At best they're the same and at worse they're significantly less. Perhaps in the written shop world that's not true? I am doing about 25 video shops next week in Las Vegas. A majority pay exactly what the same shops pay in other locations. 4 of them pay 30% less than I normally get for the exact same shops outside of NV. I have shopped in Vegas at least once per year for the past 4 years and that's been experience each time. I have never been paid more for a video shop in NV than I would have outside of NV.
3. If I'm not mistaken there were complaints several years ago that companies were dropping shoppers if the PILB site showed them as being employees of a specific company.
4. I have only ever been able to receive a bonus on NV shops once and the bonus was probably 1/2 to 1/3 of what a phone call from the actual MSC would have paid in similarly remote areas.
@ceasesmith wrote:
As it is now, if I complete an 1,100 mile route, and gross about $550 (haha), it's 100% tax-sheltered. I get to put the entire $550 in my pocket next month.
If I become an employee, that mileage becomes an ordinary commute, and is not deductible in any scenario I can imagine.
@ceasesmith wrote:
As it is now, if I complete an 1,100 mile route, and gross about $550 (haha), it's 100% tax-sheltered. I get to put the entire $550 in my pocket next month.
If I become an employee, that mileage becomes an ordinary commute, and is not deductible in any scenario I can imagine.
@tstewart3 wrote:
When doing a route, your home to your first stop is considered commuting as well as your last stop on the route then to your home is commuting and not deductible as mileage. The mileage for the stops in between your first shop and the last are what is deductible.
@ wrote:
621. “Employee” means all of the following:
...
(b) Any individual providing labor or services for remuneration has the status of an employee rather than an independent contractor unless the hiring entity demonstrates all of the following conditions:
(1) The individual is free from the control and direction of the hiring entity in connection with the performance of the work, both under the contract for the performance of the work and in fact.
(2) The individual performs work that is outside the usual course of the hiring entity’s business.
(3) The individual is customarily engaged in an independently established trade, occupation, or business of the same nature as that involved in the work performed.
@ wrote:
(b) Subdivision (a) and the holding in Dynamex Operations West, Inc. v. Superior Court of Los Angeles (2018) 4 Cal.5th 903 (Dynamex), do not apply to the following occupations as defined in the paragraphs below, and instead, the determination of employee or independent contractor status for individuals in those occupations shall be governed by Borello.
...
(3) An individual who holds an active license from the State of California and is practicing one of the following recognized professions: lawyer, architect, engineer, private investigator, or accountant.
@panama18 wrote:
They will wreck the industry with this foolishness. If you want to be an employee get a job.
@ wrote:
We could become the independent plumbers and greatly increase our income levels. Just try to get a plumber to your house for $5 and a sandwich.....
Please attempt to make a positive contribution.