New California labor law may convert Independent Contractors to Employees
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@panama18 wrote:
It is not the responsibility of companies to provide "enough" jobs or manage the economy. Nor is a business obligated to choose a high-cost option over a lower-cost one in order to promote some societal good.
I’m not sure if this is your quote, but in California that is exactly how things work. It is quickly becoming a socialist state.
Yeah, it's my comment, I don't know why it turned out like a quote. Agree on CA and sadly, they're not alone.
Big business will undermine the country as a whole. There will only be two groups, the rich and the poor.
I have friends in California who were full-time teachers who were "let go" and given the opportunity to continue working as substitute teachers. That meant less pay and no benefits to continue doing the same thing every day, with the same students, in the same classroom. I also recently found out that this has been happening with parking enforcement officers throughout the state in the last decade. Many cities have outsourced these positions in order to save money to companies that aren't providing benefits.
Employers wanting to avoid paying benefits is no longer limited to just the private sector.
Employers wanting to avoid paying benefits is no longer limited to just the private sector.
I'm sure there's a larger political discussion brewing under most of this, but the new bill was not created to for MSers, obviously...and the money recouped by the govt from MSers would be relatively insignificant. It's just that we may be collateral damage in the big picture war between corporate greed and the so-call 'socialist' agenda.
Really, it’s all about Uber and Lyft.
Maybe mystery shopping in California will be like mystery shopping in Nevada? I am on an actual PI license in Nevada as well as California, not just a dorky work card.
Maybe mystery shopping in California will be like mystery shopping in Nevada? I am on an actual PI license in Nevada as well as California, not just a dorky work card.
And to an extent the IT industry. The IT industry has long been an abuser of the concept of independent contractors.
There are reasons that a body stays in motion
At the moment only demons come to mind
At the moment only demons come to mind
Evidently the new law either went into effect last Friday or will this friday. Not sure how the companies will manage the transition that quickly if those dates are true. There is a rework for the law in January after the fallout has hit and they will reassess parts of the law. The musicians are already up in arms. They had asked for a waiver but it was denied. They are predicting that some music companies will move out of state. Several years ago the Insurance salespeople pressed the government to have themselves reclassified as employees and won. At that time I remember the govt of Calif looked at several professions where most "independent contractors" were full or near full time and made the employers put their staff on the payroll as employees.
As I have said before I doubt that mystery shoppers will be caught up in this. Perhaps the msc will offer some part or full time positions where the work is directed. Right now, no matter what is said by some, my work has never been dictated to me.
As I have said before I doubt that mystery shoppers will be caught up in this. Perhaps the msc will offer some part or full time positions where the work is directed. Right now, no matter what is said by some, my work has never been dictated to me.
Wonder how this is going to affect MS in California.....
[www.sacbee.com]?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2019 08:49PM by norcalcop.
[www.sacbee.com]?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2019 08:49PM by norcalcop.
Im also a little concerned about how tbis is going to affect mystery shopping. I think the bill was directed at uber and lyft, but there may be unintended consequences.
There is an extensive thread about this already.
Shopping Southeast Pennsylvania, Delaware above the canal, and South Jersey since 2008
@myst4au wrote:
There are multiple extensive threads about this already.
Fixed it for you!
There are reasons that a body stays in motion
At the moment only demons come to mind
At the moment only demons come to mind
If being an employee becomes the standard I am seriously going to look for a new line of work. After 3 days working in Nevada I would pull all of my hair out if I had any.
There are reasons that a body stays in motion
At the moment only demons come to mind
At the moment only demons come to mind
Same here. When the law says I'm an employee I'm gone.
Happily, I don't see it happening any time soon.
Happily, I don't see it happening any time soon.
Yes. As an IC you are free of a supervisor, manager, or board that can reprimand or fire you if you do not work at specific times or wear specified apparel. MSC employees and client employees have those. When accepting an assignment, you may be agreeing to comply with certain mandates which fulfill research demands: day part; attire; timings; etc. If you do not like these terms, you can cancel or abandon a project (with possible repercussions) but you do not resign from a job when you cancel or abandon an assignment that is essentially part of a research project. A research project is not an employer!
I am fairly certain that the law cannot get around this basic concept.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2019 01:52AM by Shop-et-al.
I am fairly certain that the law cannot get around this basic concept.
@sandyf wrote:
.... As I have said before I doubt that mystery shoppers will be caught up in this. Perhaps the msc will offer some part or full time positions where the work is directed. Right now, no matter what is said by some, my work has never been dictated to me.
Nature does not hurry, yet everything is accomplished. - Lao-Tzu
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2019 01:52AM by Shop-et-al.
@Shop-et-al wrote:
A research project is not an employer!
I am fairly certain that the law cannot get around this basic concept.
Can you name a legal precedent where that's established? I'm certain that a film can be an employer, though the standards set for some entertainment positions are not that different than mystery shops.
Thank you. I should have said that a research project is not a boss.
Are you certain that a film can be an employer? It cannot hire or fire anyone. It cannot bequeath an estate. The film per se cannot hire its producers, directors, CSAs, cast, or crew. Otoh, the human owner/-s of rights to the film might be or hire other persons who have the agency to hire and fire.
Lawyer 1: What, exactly, did the film mean when it left 34 percent of its estate to me? What did it have?
Lawyer 2: When did it say that? It told me that it was leaving 96 percent of its estate to me!
Are you certain that a film can be an employer? It cannot hire or fire anyone. It cannot bequeath an estate. The film per se cannot hire its producers, directors, CSAs, cast, or crew. Otoh, the human owner/-s of rights to the film might be or hire other persons who have the agency to hire and fire.
Lawyer 1: What, exactly, did the film mean when it left 34 percent of its estate to me? What did it have?
Lawyer 2: When did it say that? It told me that it was leaving 96 percent of its estate to me!
Nature does not hurry, yet everything is accomplished. - Lao-Tzu
A film, or a research project, can have a LLC formed for it, which in turn employs people...either as contractors or employees.
My point is that many seem sure that MSers don't fall within an employment model, but there are very similar positions that easily adopt that model. And MSing itself follows an employment model sometimes, so the idea of reclassifying shoppers as employees really isn't that wild or unconventional.
My point is that many seem sure that MSers don't fall within an employment model, but there are very similar positions that easily adopt that model. And MSing itself follows an employment model sometimes, so the idea of reclassifying shoppers as employees really isn't that wild or unconventional.
@SteveSoCal wrote:
[ I'm certain that a film can be an employer, though the standards set for some entertainment positions are not that different than mystery shops.
And mystery shoppers have to act in roles for our shops like real actors. Maybe it is time for us to set up our own version of the Oscars!
Each film is set up as an individual company that hangs around for decades. Writers directors producers distributors and actors (and their agents/managers) have to be paid varying residual amounts over the life of the film. There is a company set up for this as well as managing the business activities of production, editing, marketing, etc.
@panama18 wrote:
Same here. When the law says I'm an employee I'm gone.
Happily, I don't see it happening any time soon.
A lot of us will be gone, if that happens, but for different reasons. Some dont want to work as an employee. Others will find they pay higher taxes.
Uber just filed suit (not the first one I am pretty sure) saying that driving is not their core business. They are claiming the drivers just use their software to find and secure indiv jobs (just like we do?). The article says most legal experts do not think they will win this argument but that it will be tied up in court for many years. Perhaps we will be on their coat tails.
Meanwhile, I live in California where the law is now the law of the land but yet I have not heard a peep from any of the msc I have worked for. I would think they would have, at the very least, sent out email notification to us Californians giving us an update on how they are proceeding...such as filing a legal claim or just letting us know some changes are in the works once the bugs have been squashed or even letting us know that the government has reviewed our industry and decided we do not qualify. But...as many say, I have heard crickets from all of my msc.
Meanwhile, I live in California where the law is now the law of the land but yet I have not heard a peep from any of the msc I have worked for. I would think they would have, at the very least, sent out email notification to us Californians giving us an update on how they are proceeding...such as filing a legal claim or just letting us know some changes are in the works once the bugs have been squashed or even letting us know that the government has reviewed our industry and decided we do not qualify. But...as many say, I have heard crickets from all of my msc.
@sandyf wrote:
Uber just filed suit (not the first one I am pretty sure) saying that driving is not their core business. They are claiming the drivers just use their software to find and secure indiv jobs (just like we do?). The article says most legal experts do not think they will win this argument but that it will be tied up in court for many years. Perhaps we will be on their coat tails.
Meanwhile, I live in California where the law is now the law of the land but yet I have not heard a peep from any of the msc I have worked for. I would think they would have, at the very least, sent out email notification to us Californians giving us an update on how they are proceeding...such as filing a legal claim or just letting us know some changes are in the works once the bugs have been squashed or even letting us know that the government has reviewed our industry and decided we do not qualify. But...as many say, I have heard crickets from all of my msc.
MSCs are probably waiting until they get "caught". Their penalities would be based on how much they pay us so not that much. {smiles}
It might not be up to the msc's, maybe they are waiting on the mspa since they are the ones who lobby for the ica status. I found this though when I was looking to see what has happened on the other end of things and it says nothing has been spent on lobbying this year or last by the mspa. [www.opensecrets.org]
But Uber has spent $5,989,966. [www.crainsnewyork.com]
But Uber has spent $5,989,966. [www.crainsnewyork.com]
I have been in and out of Uber during my Chicago trip and every driver I spoke to (about 10) were either students or had another job just doing this to make a few bucks....they can never get this together to "employ" all of them, same with MS'ing. Good subject that will never happen. There used to be thread's from shoppers on having a union for us, did that happen?
Live consciously....
@SoCalMama wrote:
Really, it’s all about Uber and Lyft.
Maybe mystery shopping in California will be like mystery shopping in Nevada?
I can only hope it will. I will likely be doing much more CA shopping and have more shops to choose from if that happens. I will definitely allow me to raise my $$ per shop average still higher.
Different strokes. Working in Nevada was a nightmare last week. So much so that I am likely cancelling my October trip.
It's pretty sad when you work more hours for less profit and have free hotel and airfare.
It's pretty sad when you work more hours for less profit and have free hotel and airfare.
There are reasons that a body stays in motion
At the moment only demons come to mind
At the moment only demons come to mind
BG I agree , years ago working Vegas was fun, now shops are paying less, and have become a hassle. I only do airport jobs cause I'm there anyway, no traveling, and hate the newer nightclubs starting at 11:00 PM. Even my retail is paying less and now has age restrictions. What's going on??
Live consciously....
The reduced pay seems to be across the board. It's the only industry where pay gets less and less each year. Can you imagine staying at a job where you never get a raise year after year, much less get paid less than the year before? 
I've made more money with less work every year I've done this.
There are reasons that a body stays in motion
At the moment only demons come to mind
At the moment only demons come to mind
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